Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13

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[11:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin
[11:01]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin
[11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi bluewall, folks
[11:01]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: justin is faster then nebadon. wow
[11:01]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Justin
[11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure if Nebadon is going to be around. Has anyone seen him?
[11:02]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Arielle
[11:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: he was in irc a little while ago
[11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi arielle
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: oh ok
[11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Rira :)
[11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: |Hi Seth, Aine, Justin Blue
[11:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Arielle
[11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Billy
[11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi billy
[11:03]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600 waves
[11:03]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: o/
[11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: did anyone actually try this pgsql user profiles class? It looks like there are a ton of bugs in it
[11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: unfortunately not a lot
[11:04]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Fernando's thingy?
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: I believe so
[11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Arielle, no - he didn't put that in
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hee, bugs need to hide somewhere.. :)
[11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: he contributed a partial Pgsql adapter ...
[11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no groups, profiles, etc.
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: git log says this class originated with him
[11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm
[11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think I copy-pasted it
[11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, the PgSQL is waaayy different.
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:05]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hey Neb
[11:05]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Neb
[11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I spend some time on that a while back, but I had to break off ...
[11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I see you arelady made quite a few fixes at 18121cec
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: but there's still a lot of similar stuff wrong with it, which I'm now blind fixing
[11:06]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: almost  typoed "hey Newb"
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, 1812cec
[11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I lost soem hardware here and had time constraints
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb
[11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was trying to bring up a dev grid on PgSQL, but didn't quite make it.
[11:07]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Neb - over the Flu?
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: ya mostly
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: im like 99% now heh
[11:07]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: did you get a flu shot?
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: I did not
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: infact i have never had one before
[11:07]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh usually they the only  ones that get the flu
[11:07]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: flu shot onlky mkaes you sick :O
[11:08]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they say it doesn't work this year, anyway
[11:08]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: no never did got one
[11:08]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe 3% effective
[11:08]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: must have been close to someone who did
[11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: my sisters kids god me sick, coughing all over everything lol
[11:08]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe
[11:08]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ban them
[11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ah well probably better to get sick every so often
[11:09]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: any opensim questions today?
[11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't really have anything myself this week
[11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: I leave for Sweden tomorrow for 15 days
[11:10]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hush falls over the crowd
[11:10]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: whoohoo - send back photos :)
[11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: so its unlikely I will be here next week, but if I can I will be
[11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: just not sure about my schedule totally yet
[11:10]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: We still experience network related issues with regions when a visitor has high packet latencies. I was unable to collect stats due to a new error that shows up intermittently
[11:10]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Have fun with the internet there nebadon ;)
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: new error?
[11:11]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: 2015-01-11 14:23:28,898 ERROR - OpenSim.Application Command error: System.InvalidCastException: Cannot cast from source type to destination type.
 at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.LindenUDP.LLUDPServer.GetTotalQueuedOutgoingPackets () [0x00024] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/UDP/LLUDPServer.cs:737
 at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.LindenUDP.LLUDPServer.<AddScene>m__8 (OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat stat) [0x00002] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/UDP/LLUDPServer.cs:714
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat.get_Value () [0x00014] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/Stats/Stat.cs:85
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat.ToConsoleString () [0x00031] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/Stats/Stat.cs:234
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetContainerStatsReports (System.Collections.Generic.SortedDictionary`2 container) [0x00023] in
[11:11]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002:  /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:216
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetCategoryStatsReports (System.Collections.Generic.SortedDictionary`2 category) [0x00023] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:199
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetAllStatsReports () [0x00027] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:182
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.OutputAllStatsToConsole (ICommandConsole con) [0x00002] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:189
 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.HandleShowStatsCommand (System.String module, System.String[] cmd) [0x0007e] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:114
 at OpenSim.Framework.Console.Commands.Resolve (System.String[] cmd) [0x00063] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/CommandConsole.cs:495
 at
[11:11]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002:  OpenSim.Framework.Console.LocalConsole.ReadLine (System.String p, Boolean isCommand, Boolean e) [0x00439] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/LocalConsole.cs:557
 at OpenSim.Framework.Console.CommandConsole.Prompt () [0x00014] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/CommandConsole.cs:757
 at OpenSim.Application.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00416] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/Application/Application.cs:332
[11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: failing url / inventory info retrieve still gives a lot of ..net spew instead of a short console error. unless its fix in dev.
[11:11]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: I get that sometimes after issuing a stats record start or stats show all
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd error
[11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i havent seen console errors like that in forever
[11:12]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: When that occurs I get no stats
[11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono?
[11:12]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: That would be an easy one to track down
[11:12]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Oddly it seeems to go away on its own without any restart
[11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: does it happen when you resize the console?
[11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: that used to happen a lot
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: it doesn't occur every 5 seconds?
[11:13]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 2014-11-11 23:59:04,866 DEBUG - OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.UserManagement.UserManagementModule [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed 
System.Net.WebException: The remote server returned an error: (502) Bad Gateway.
 at System.Net.HttpWebRequest.GetResponse()
 at Nwc.XmlRpc.XmlRpcRequest.Send(String url, Int32 timeout)
 at OpenSim.Services.Connectors.Hypergrid.UserAgentServiceConnector.CallServer(String methodName, Hashtable hash) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Services\Connectors\Hypergrid\UserAgentServiceConnector.cs:line 197
 at OpenSim.Services.Connectors.Hypergrid.UserAgentServiceConnector.GetServerURLs(UUID userID) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Services\Connectors\Hypergrid\UserAgentServiceConnector.cs:line 498
 at OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.UserManagement.UserManagementModule.GetUserServerURL(UUID userID, String serverType) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Region\CoreModules\Framework\UserManagement\UserManagementModule.cs:line 4
[11:13]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: mono 3.2.8
[11:13]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: No, it occurrs only the once but no stats are recorded when it happens
[11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: strange
[11:13]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i see the one rira posted a lot
[11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: I wonder if that error above may be something with friends list
[11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes, would be nice if the exception get intercepted and replace for small ,message
[11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: a friend on a grid that is down or no longer exists
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: so on other "show stats" invocations it'#s fine?
[11:14]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: it is Neb
[11:14]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: yes
[11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we should probably supress that message to a warning
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: really odd. It must be a casting error but then it should occur every time
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: I will fix it
[11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: not really fixable, but it could be more human friendly
[11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Thats what i mean nebadon. because the whole error is a bit overdone
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, at the moment that stuff is raw but ultimately it shouldn't spew
[11:15]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: It has prevented me from capturing stats when I have really wanted to
[11:15]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: so and so grid is curreently offline
[11:16]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: without the typo
[11:16]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)
[11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice if it was more informative of who the person was
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: waht revisions opensim are you using?
[11:16]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Alicia
[11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Alicia
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: revision
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: Is this a scene with NPCs?
[11:17]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: I've seen that with several versions; OpenSim 0.8.1 Devr/25624 bb82076a4d 25-Dec-2014 and as recent at Jan 7th
[11:18]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, I think those regions would have had NPCs at the time
[11:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, they did
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I think I see where I probably screwed up. I will fix it
[11:18]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: That would explain also what I only see it when we are having events and such
[11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wiush rong s;lashes where auto corrected by opensim. because i used the wrong one in the past
[11:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and today I just hit the same problem AI Austin was reporting where all of my NPC were showing as UMMTGUN9
[11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: I effectiveyl assumed in code that every ScenePresence has an attached UDPClient, which is not the case for NPCs
[11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: hence probablyi the casting exception. HO hum
[11:19]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it only happened in the region that's running on our main server, not on any NPC on my self-hosted ones
[11:19]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[11:21]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia
[11:22]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi
[11:22]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dalhia
[11:23]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hello Dahlia
[11:23]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia
[11:23]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: waves
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: has anyone else tested Roberts new changes for Avatars on Steps
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: seemed to work pretty well for me, though i only spent a couple of minutes
[11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes. I have
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: wondering if anyone saw any negative effects?
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: good/bad?
[11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: works fine with prims but a problme still with mesh
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported in the Mantis on it
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt surprise me
[11:25]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was moving around some things like rocks and I was hanging up a little.
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure if Robert reads that though because he didn't make any sort of response to it
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i noticed i was able to walk clear over a conference room table
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: without even the slightest hesitation
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haa
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but the vaulting stopped
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: atleast i didnt notice that anymore
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: which is good
[11:26]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: makes it easier for table dancing
[11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, the rocks were sculpty prims, so that might have some bearing on it.
[11:26]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I made a set of very basic 0.1m steps using prims and could walk up them just fine
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: Do you know waht his change was?
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe, mesh and sculpty I could possibly see issues
[11:26]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I made an identical mesh set and got stuck on them all the time
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: all he did was adjust some numbers I think
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: to make it more bearable, it wasnt a proper fix really
[11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it seems to be related to the slope
[11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: once the slope reaches around 0.2 or 0.25 it's fine
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: Robert made it sound like the way LL does stuff is not a good fit for Bullet
[11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if slope is less than that it's a problem still
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: the way avatar height is determined
[11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I guess the capsule needs some surface area to keep from falling through the terrain?
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: he seems leary to even touch it anymore
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: to be honest though I don't know enough about how bullet works there
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: I think currently though we fake alot of stuff and heavily estimate, its not accurate at all
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: why you see things like folding feet
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: or hovering above the ground slightly
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: we do alot of guessing it seems
[11:29]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is the sit on terrain already fixt ?
[11:29]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: instead of sitting on prim
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus, i wasnt even aware of problems there though
[11:30]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think that has worked for some time
[11:30]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i mean, it dont groundsit on prim
[11:30]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ?
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: oh on a prim
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: is it a large prim?
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: like over 64m?
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: damn it
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i guess thats a big no
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:31]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ihave not tried it for a long time
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: does not appear to work
[11:31]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think it fails on small ones to
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i see it start to sit on the prim
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: then my avatar poofs
[11:31]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: in the past it did send you straight to terrain
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: yep
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: i see myself on the terrain under the building
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nope
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't understand. YOu're not talking abotu this prim?
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ground sit nebadon
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+alt+s justin
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it fails
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: what does that do?
[11:32]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haaa
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: it sits you
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: supposed to sit you on whatever your standing on
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh, never tried that before
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: but it appears to miss all the prims and shoot you to terrain
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: raycast fail
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: I never even knew this existed so never tested it before...
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: so it's meant to sit you in the exact place on the prim?
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:33]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: huh, its mentoined before in meetings
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh richardus, I can't always understand what you're saying very well
[11:33]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it where maby not me, and yes its sometimes hard
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: I will mention that to Robert
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: is there a mantis Richardus?
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: also does it only happen with Bullet?
[11:34]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm. maby let me look at it
[11:34]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Yes, that works on the terrain, but didn't know it was broken on prims.
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: be good if you could test with ODE too
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect it doesnt fail in ODE
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect this isn't a phys thing
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, it's probably something I should look at
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: if you can that would be great
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: it is handy
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: alot of people use it
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: I kind of have a feeling it might use physics raycast
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: to find the physics hull
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: it shouldnt sit you on non physical things i dont think
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: anything phantom
[11:35]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not using ode anymore.
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: though there are probably other ways to do that check
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: I imagine the viewer gives a sit position... and it may be ignored currently
[11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6813
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: cool
[11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes fails with ode to,
[11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: first report is with 0.7.6
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm someone mentions alt+shift+s in the mantis
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: but that does nothing for me at all
[11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, bulletsim
[11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hehe
[11:37]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not fins ctrl-shift
[11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I put it on my list since it looks like it may well be a rgression
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: I hope to start the next release cycle pretty soon
[11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks
[11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok i see sit down. dont thionk i have that
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don'tthink it has much to do with physics but won't know for sure until I look at this specifically
[11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not tried it with ode. but who want to use ode ?
[11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: :)
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: I did just see a report that a certain vehicle causes big BulletSim cpu use
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: which doesn't happen with that vehicle in ODE
[11:39]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Verhicles can do weird with 0.8 , sofar i have seen on sims
[11:39]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Well since bullets don't work in bulletsim (mantis 6496) lots of people have gone back to ODE
[11:39]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: possible faulty script to. where not mine
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: I just pushed a fix for the exception btw in commit 55e0815
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: the bug has been present since oct 2 2014
[11:40]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: OK, great. I'll make sure to grab that and update a few regions so we can test it
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's difficult. Ideally, I would say it's never a scripts fault, it's up to the simulator to control script behaviour. But we live in a far from perfect world where it's simple for a script to cause problems atm
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would like to have some way of limiting physics behaviour - atm there's not even a way to limit the number of phys objects afaik
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: yea probably not
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: though Bullet will cull physical objects
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: after a certain point
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: infact its to harsh right now
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: interesting
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: causes me issues with prim drops
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: ideally you would limit based on available server time instead of some cruder number like number of phys prims
[11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: physical prims just freeze mid air
[11:42]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: combat systems would probably create a lot
[11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: bullet should be able to handle 1000s of physical prims
[11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: as long as your bandwidth and router can keep up with the massive amount of updates
[11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: i wish we had more people interested in working on physics
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: we need to lure Teravus back :)
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: phys is tough
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: yea especially how we do it
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: most physics engines are not meant to be server side
[11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, or meant to work with extremely variable ugc
[11:46]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'd like to mention a cluster of bugs that makes weapons and combat systems impossible in opensim.
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:46]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: bbiab
[11:46]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llGetCameraRot does not return the right rotation, so you cannot aim weapons (mantis 7373)
[11:47]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bulletsim doesn't work on bullets (6496)
[11:47]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So I switched to llCastRay, and it has lots of problems.
[11:48]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Mantis 7375
[11:48]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: 7374
[11:48]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Stop shooting kayaker, its already dead :)
[11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: yea llCastRay is not very reliable yet
[11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: big prims and mesh
[11:49]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llCastRay reports hits far from objects if they are rotated, it reports hits on physics type none prims.
[11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ive noticed it fail on hollow things too
[11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: it detects them as if its solid
[11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay only tests against AABBs
[11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: (Axis Aligned Bounding Boxes)
[11:50]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: ?AABBs?
[11:51]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: That explains the hits near rotated objects
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm somewhat surprised that llGetCameraRot() fails since the underlying code looks pretty simple
[11:52]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: As the camera rotates, the return value from llGetCameraRot does not,
[11:52]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have some experimental things using the camera and it seemed to work last time I looked at it.
[11:52]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: it only updates once every 10 degrees or so
[11:52]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: camera rot is probably not properly known since the AgentUpdate filtering code went in
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: huh
[11:52]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: as if it is returning the rotation of the avatar lower torso
[11:52]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohhh, ok - dynamic
[11:53]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so if there's a ini setting to turn off AgentUpdate filtering, I'd try that
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it may be thgat LLClientView.CheckAgentCameraUpdateSignificance is too harsh
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: there's no way to config it atm unfortunately, one would have to change LLClientView.VDELTA and rebuild
[11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: seems like rotating the cube doesnt seem to have any effect on the raycast here
[11:54]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: thats one of the applications that require high rate of agent updates
[11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: like the thing Diva found?
[11:55]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I mentioned it a few times while people were implemeiting that but not sure if the ini setting I asked for was implemented also
[11:55]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In this room, I cannot use llCastRay at all because it reports hits in the middle of the room for parts of the dome.
[11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ah so its when its attached to avatar maybe?
[11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: the stationary prim raycaster object doesnt seem to fail
[11:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay should probably use the physics raycast but whoever coded it chose to do otherwise for whatever reason
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: I think avanation provided that?
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: i think they use a custom version of ODE
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure if they moved to bullet yet
[11:58]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: That snowball is placed at a location llCastRay says is OKC Stadium seating
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the floor beneath the chairs
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: hollow cylinders
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: never good
[11:58]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I aim high enough and I finally get to hit the dome
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: it always fails on hollow
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: especially large hollow its bad
[11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it doesn't take in account the prim shape?
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: because the object is usually significantly larger than what it appears if the cut and hollow were gone
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: it would cover over 1/4 of this region
[11:59]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In an empty region with a large rectangular bar, I see hits in the AABB
[11:59]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay knows nothing about geometry, to it everything is a box
[12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: its like usin POS physics
[12:00]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In SL you can set weather or not llCastRay sees phantom objects, so it has to work without physics sometimes....
[12:01]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the way opensim is coded, llCastRay has no ability to test against geometry, it's not available in that part of the code
[12:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :/
[12:01]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: llCastRay i still dont understand compleet. in sl its not done what i expected with some tests
[12:01]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 is back and caught up
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: wb :)
[12:02]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: wb
[12:02]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: wb
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it's the top of the hour so I'm going off to fix what look to be prety obvious pgsql
[12:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :)
[12:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I need to take off too
[12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm getting closer to actually installing it but not yet...
[12:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin
[12:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see you all next week - have a good one.
[12:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye blue
[12:04]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye all
[12:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, heading home to
[12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks
[12:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Offline
[12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: kk thanks everyone, hopefully see you next week if i can
[12:04]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Have a great afternoon/evening everyone, take care
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