Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06

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[2015/01/06 11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[2015/01/06 11:01]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Justin
[2015/01/06 11:01]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: hi Justin
[2015/01/06 11:01]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves
[2015/01/06 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hello all
[2015/01/06 11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin, all
[2015/01/06 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: everybody has gone back to school :)
[2015/01/06 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: im starting to get sick blah.. sort throat , burning lungs
[2015/01/06 11:05]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi :)
[2015/01/06 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry to hear that
[2015/01/06 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi alicia
[2015/01/06 11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people have been sick all around here. I keep my fingers crossed
[2015/01/06 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm still a little sick but coming out the other side
[2015/01/06 11:05]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Drink lemon juice and honey Neb (warm) it will make you feel a little better
[2015/01/06 11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: moonshine will make yuou feel a lot better :)
[2015/01/06 11:06]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: true, until the next day!
[2015/01/06 11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haha
[2015/01/06 11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Bluewall, but then you betetr dont stop useing it. or you feel worse
[2015/01/06 11:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Andrew :)
[2015/01/06 11:08]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew
[2015/01/06 11:08]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a question as to whether this should be logged as an Opensim or viewer bug: on one grid I visit it seems any time I try to make a landmark it's storing it in IP form but then when I subsequently attempt to use it it fails....I have to make every time to their DDNS (even though the IP is static)
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hello, everyone
[2015/01/06 11:09]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Aine, maybe they use ip addresses in their confioguration?
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe you need to set the FQDN in the [Network] section?
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or is perhaps a grid configuration issue?
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure what all that effects
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: if its just scripting or what
[2015/01/06 11:09]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, we had that issue, their config has the ip address and landmarks dont work unless they change it to the domain
[2015/01/06 11:10]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I suppose anything that uses the host address - lots of Hg functions
[2015/01/06 11:10]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it only happens on Narasnook but that's run/hosted by the Zeta people so one would think it would be a more widespread issue
[2015/01/06 11:10]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies....ty Alicia, I'll let them know
[2015/01/06 11:10]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why does opensim not do nslookup if it find ip and use the domain name it get. if no doamin name generate error and stop ?
[2015/01/06 11:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you can point 1000 names at an IP
[2015/01/06 11:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how would we know which to use?
[2015/01/06 11:11]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it just seems strange that it fails since the IP stored for the LM is correct
[2015/01/06 11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats not your problem. :) then the betetr put domain name in
[2015/01/06 11:12]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is it part of the spoofing security, the ip is rejected as it dosnt match the address expected
[2015/01/06 11:13]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: still seems odd....if I do a maps search using their IP instead of DNS it works
[2015/01/06 11:13]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so why wouldn't the LM?
[2015/01/06 11:14]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: I've seen that comparision being made in console log
[2015/01/06 11:14]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: http://ip.ad.re.ss:8002 != http://domain.name:8002
[2015/01/06 11:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah
[2015/01/06 11:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just odd that it isn't
[2015/01/06 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sound like config error
[2015/01/06 11:15]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe they use host names in region configs
[2015/01/06 11:15]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: shouldn't really matter though, I guess.
[2015/01/06 11:15]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea....it's run by "Fred" who runs Zeta as well, I believe
[2015/01/06 11:15]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so one would think he has a reasonable idea of what he's doing
[2015/01/06 11:16]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some one was saying yesterday they couldn't teleport from my grid to naras, but other hg teleports worked ok, might be connected
[2015/01/06 11:16]  Simulator Version v0.5: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osGetSimulatorVersion permission denied.  Allowed threat level is VeryLow but function threat level is High.
[2015/01/06 11:16]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yep...that's the grid
[2015/01/06 11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: tell Fred to try using his domain name. Maybe it will fix the issue.
[2015/01/06 11:16]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies, I'll pass the message on....ty
[2015/01/06 11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: No idea why it doesn't work, and there may be tons of things that could cause it.
[2015/01/06 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need to look at the existing bugs, I didn't do much over Christmas, tried to rest mainly
[2015/01/06 11:20]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: RFC. Someone reported finding "DELETE /assets/131acf6b-c012-4846-8239-7f41bb21001b HTTP/1.1" 200 66 "-" "-" in the access log of a server, I reconstructed a similar request and found the opensim accepts the request but does nothing with it.
[2015/01/06 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: hope folks did have a good new year
[2015/01/06 11:20]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++
[2015/01/06 11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ++
[2015/01/06 11:21]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: The UUID has to be valid
[2015/01/06 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hard to say, just 6 days in the new year :)
[2015/01/06 11:21]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: ++ too much beer ;)
[2015/01/06 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: billy: yes, the stream handler is setup even though requests are ignored by default. Really, it probably shoudlnt' be set up at all
[2015/01/06 11:22]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Just for the log here, can I say they have nothing to be concerned about, except of course someone being stupid?
[2015/01/06 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: assets cant actually be deleted
[2015/01/06 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: assets won't be deleted unless you have set [AssetService] AllowRemoteDelete = true
[2015/01/06 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: do you know where the requests are coming from?
[2015/01/06 11:24]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Traced to somewhere in Japan
[2015/01/06 11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: heh, what's up with that?
[2015/01/06 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: if it's definietley outside your network then someone is playing buggers... but then you shouldn't allow requests to the asset service private port anyway
[2015/01/06 11:24]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: The log shows the IP
[2015/01/06 11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: another one that I'm not sure if it's a viewer bug or Opensim bug....I was doing a little old school terraforming (actually using the bulldozer!) and for some bizarre reason to raise land I have to set the strength slider to at least ~15% yet for lowering at roughly the same rate I have to almost zero the slider....and "smooth" seems to be far more aggressive in its smoothing (even at close to zero strength) than used to be the case
[2015/01/06 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: aine: anything like that is simulator-side
[2015/01/06 11:26]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...I'll do some experimentation and wait a while.....don't want to give you yet another bug to add to the pile
[2015/01/06 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: most of the code that generates terrain effects is ancient
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: yea I think last person to work on that was Adam
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...and I don't recall any changes to it in the last year which is why I was a little surprised to see a different behaviour
[2015/01/06 11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: teravus worked on it a little about a year ago
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That explains maby why it's not optimized
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: he worked on network side of it
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: but i dont think he actually touched the tools themselves
[2015/01/06 11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: he implemented a throttle if i recall
[2015/01/06 11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's why I was thinking it might be a viewer bug since I *have* recently done a FS update
[2015/01/06 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, wasn't there some work done in there a couple of months ago?
[2015/01/06 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some new tools?
[2015/01/06 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall that but maybe
[2015/01/06 11:28]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there was a console command added
[2015/01/06 11:28]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i know the behavior you mean, but i seem to remember its always been that way as far as i recall
[2015/01/06 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I remember someone talking about wanting to make some tools that produced sharper edges and shapes
[2015/01/06 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and I was thinking that some work did come if a little while after that/
[2015/01/06 11:29]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I may be mistaken though. would need to look at the commit logs
[2015/01/06 11:29]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think there was just the console command added but I wouldn't want to swear to it
[2015/01/06 11:29]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it allows you re specify a rectangle to elevate/lower as a block
[2015/01/06 11:30]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that was probably what I was thinking about
[2015/01/06 11:31]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but you can select a area ion the viewer to and rais or lower or
[2015/01/06 11:31]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 shrugs...now you can do it by precise amounts in console too if you want
[2015/01/06 11:33]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would really, really love it if the whole issue of missing attachments could be addressed as something of a priority....it's getting extremely annnoying to have to Ruth myself when HGed just so some people aren't seeing me naked (or bodiless) wherever I go
[2015/01/06 11:34]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there is something that seems to make a sim fail to send some things in higher traffic regions and when that happens it will *never* send it unless the person who can't see it logs out and back in again
[2015/01/06 11:34]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: can happen with any asset, too, not just mesh
[2015/01/06 11:35]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: can be a texture, a sculpt or a mesh but I haven't seen it happen with prim attachments
[2015/01/06 11:35]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so some sort of timing/race issue maybe?
[2015/01/06 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea, all grids have to be on master code, which means getting a release out
[2015/01/06 11:36]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I notice it the most on Metro because thier asset server is utter garbage
[2015/01/06 11:36]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (or perhaps that's unfair....it's old and under unusually high stress)
[2015/01/06 11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Or the connection to it, depends where you live aine
[2015/01/06 11:37]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oddly it's Euros who seem most prone to not seeing parts of me and they don't have the entire Atlantic Ocean in the way
[2015/01/06 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: But, why would your assets be on their server? Is that the destination?
[2015/01/06 11:38]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's all between the region/grid asset/and other user....my connection doesn't enter into it afaik
[2015/01/06 11:38]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when you HG there your assets get sent
[2015/01/06 11:38]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise nobody would see you
[2015/01/06 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: to the region
[2015/01/06 11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Senmt from where ? USA ?
[2015/01/06 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: yea its probably not the asset server
[2015/01/06 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: its the region
[2015/01/06 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: unless they are using caps to redirect everything directly to asset server
[2015/01/06 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: which would be unlikely
[2015/01/06 11:39]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the asset server seems to be involved since once I've worn something to one Metro region I can generally wear it when going to another region without the usual tp fail
[2015/01/06 11:40]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the region has an asset cache
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: yes but
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: even if the 2 regions are on different sims
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: the only connection to assset server is between their regions and asset server
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: your viewer never speaks directly to asset server
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: it always proxies through the simulator
[2015/01/06 11:40]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...but I can go to Close Encounter (hosted by Akira) and then go to Centerworld (not hosted by Akira) and it works fine
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the point is really if it was asset server it would be having same effect on local accounts
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem is likely latency betwen the simulator and viewer
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe high packet loss
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think close encounters is running ariba btw. (not sure)
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: hard to say without looking at it through scope
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, they are, but I was picking 2 region names arbitrarily from a hat
[2015/01/06 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: when you first teleport to a foreign simulator, the assets required for appearance are transferred
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: after that,, they are present in the foreign asset service
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: I highly suspect its mush
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: TRy my region tehre next tim e aine :O thats running vanilla opensim
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: mesh*
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: Aine have you tested with a avatar with no attachments
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: vs avatar with just prim attachments
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: vs Mesh avatar
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right...and that foreign asset service is grid level, correct?
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect the mesh is what fails
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: aine: yes
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...so I was right
[2015/01/06 11:42]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mesh is failing more in opensim
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: mesh and hypergrid are horrible right now
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: from my experience
[2015/01/06 11:43]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohhh, I didn't realize that Hg user's assets go to the assets server
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mesh fails more often, sure, but I've seen textures fail and sculpties fail too
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and on top of all of that ATI's latest auto-installed driver has a rigged mesh bug
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: yes but if you could test making sure there is no mixing and matching
[2015/01/06 11:43]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: so the hg region propagates the assets to hg grid asset server too?
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: like an avatar with no attachments, one with just prims, one with just sculpty, one with just mesh
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: and see what kind of failure rates they each produce
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's not reliable
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: jak: yes
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that to me screams latency or packet loss if its inconsistent
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only consistent things seems to be that the more avi in a region, the morelikely it is that something will fail
[2015/01/06 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: we probably have a timeout to short some where too
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: none of this is valid unless the region in question is running recent opensim code
[2015/01/06 11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Justin, how long before they are snet up?
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: there were a number of changes made to improve this for the conference
[2015/01/06 11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: *sent
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: yea that is true Justin
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but are the in 0.8.03 ?
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it happen f***ing everywhere, including in RG regions which are all running 0.8.1 built Jan 1st
[2015/01/06 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so
[2015/01/06 11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: stock code
[2015/01/06 11:46]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: There's the problem why it maby dont work there
[2015/01/06 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: nobody has reported it afaik
[2015/01/06 11:46]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Are they not cached at the region level for a time before being sent to the assets server?
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: blue: the code is at HGEntityTransferModule.HandleIncomingSceneObject()
[2015/01/06 11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've brought it up at the last 2-3 meetings at least as part of the HG issues that I initially logged in March 2013 -- almost 2 years ago
[2015/01/06 11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hmmm,
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: I can say for certain that most of the HG issues i come accross involce mesh
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: involve*
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: shall I close that Mantis and start a whole new identical one so it looks new?
[2015/01/06 11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I can understand them going to the assets server if you expect them to travel about the other regions.
[2015/01/06 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: aine: which mantis number?
[2015/01/06 11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but seems that it would be good to just cache them
[2015/01/06 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: they are cached
[2015/01/06 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: if all you do is just cache it, then how would people in neighbor sims see those assets?
[2015/01/06 11:49]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: trhing to locate it....think it might have been on that Melanie helpfuly "closed" because it was related to someone else's report
[2015/01/06 11:49]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Well, that is a good point.
[2015/01/06 11:50]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess I'll just make a new report for it because I can't locate the old one
[2015/01/06 11:50]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, look under your own reports. not in global
[2015/01/06 11:50]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you made the report
[2015/01/06 11:51]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: But, actually the child agents in the sam sim should pick them from the regions asset cache?
[2015/01/06 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2015/01/06 11:52]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: So, if we could know if they are about to jump to another region on the same grid, then we could push the assets to the asset server?
[2015/01/06 11:53]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm beginning to think it was sometihing I added to someone else's report since I'm not seeing it even in my closed ones
[2015/01/06 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: how woul dyou know?
[2015/01/06 11:53]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: so not only are all local assets stored till the end of time, but hg users assets are squirreled away in the bottomless pit also
[2015/01/06 11:53]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I guess by the destination
[2015/01/06 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: again what about neihgbors though
[2015/01/06 11:53]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: child agents neb
[2015/01/06 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but how do they get the assets?
[2015/01/06 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: when they choose it before they hit teleport?
[2015/01/06 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: do they get them from asset server or from viewer?
[2015/01/06 11:54]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the child agent gets it from the regions they are in.
[2015/01/06 11:54]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Justin, I guess when they hit teleport.
[2015/01/06 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: right what im saying is, if say i teleport to wright plaza
[2015/01/06 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: **Just brainstorming a little**(
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: my viewer sends wright plaza the required avatar assets
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: does it also send them to the neighbors?
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yes
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: or does the neighors request those assets from asset server
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: but that's when we're doing the transfer anyway. YOu aren't gaining anything
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, the neibours would be child agents on the wright plaza sim tho
[2015/01/06 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Neb, avatars in surrounding sims have child agents in Wright Plaza
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no
[2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: oh i see ya
[2015/01/06 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: They are the eys
[2015/01/06 11:56]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok
[2015/01/06 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i was thinking you mean my avatars child agents
[2015/01/06 11:56]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I should look at the code before I think about it, haa
[2015/01/06 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah, sorry :) I should try and remember other people haven't already looked through this stuff a lot
[2015/01/06 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was just thinking that there may be some optimization in there somewhere for bandwidth and storage space too.
[2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: As alicia hints, I think atm the hg code stores transferred assets for all time. In theory they could be removed as they aren't the canonical copies
[2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that's a storage optimization, not performance
[2015/01/06 11:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++
[2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: really, the imported assets should be so marked so that they could be removed at some later point
[2015/01/06 11:59]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I tend to think Neb's guess is right: that there's a short-ish timer somewhere and if the asset hasn't been sent out to a specific viewer by then for whatever reason, it never gets sent to that viewer no matter what unless that person relogs.....it doesn't even get sent if the wearer relogs
[2015/01/06 11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, I think that is a good idea
[2015/01/06 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't pay any attention to gueses in such a complex area. It's like looking at a car and trying to figure out why it doesn't go just from observing the effects
[2015/01/06 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, it's 10x worse
[2015/01/06 11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++x50
[2015/01/06 12:00]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, In response to your earlier question, new years was ok. Nothing special at my end. Hope you enjoyed it and took some time off.
[2015/01/06 12:02]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: s/question/comment/
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: the biggest problem i have with HG and mesh
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: is teleporting from Grid A to Grid B and the regions i am leaving from and going to have the same assets
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: mesh is just another attachment, albeit a large one
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: many times i end up landing to 1000 yellow pyramids
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: instead of mesh
[2015/01/06 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: then i log out and back in and the departure grid also has yellow pyramids now
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i have to clear cache and do it again, usaully second time its ok
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall it ever happening right after a cache clear the first time
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: clear cache on viewer?
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats complete weird
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: happens a lot for me
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i tend to make big asset oars
[2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: so i can move my stuff between grids
[2015/01/06 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: very problematic and time wasting
[2015/01/06 12:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I used to see those for the chairs in the Keynote regions when I would go there in Singularity
[2015/01/06 12:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: That was really odd
[2015/01/06 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: i really have a feeling that somewhere in HG mesh asset requests maybe take to long
[2015/01/06 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: and it confuses the viewer or something
[2015/01/06 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: then eventually times out and you never get the assets, and if you already have them, they get corrupted
[2015/01/06 12:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: ouch
[2015/01/06 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: its never happened on local teleport
[2015/01/06 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: always HG 100%
[2015/01/06 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: and like i said
[2015/01/06 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: usually the departure and arrival sims have nearly identical assets
[2015/01/06 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall it only happening with a small number of items
[2015/01/06 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: like my big tree OAR
[2015/01/06 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: thats a great example
[2015/01/06 12:08]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have seen those, then they finally rez into the object.
[2015/01/06 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/oars/topiary_2013-01-30.oar
[2015/01/06 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: my mesh trees get it a lot
[2015/01/06 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: because i have those all over the place too
[2015/01/06 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: so this happens when assets are in both places already?
[2015/01/06 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: seems so
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: when i notice it most
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i will be in a region on say Avacon grid
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i make an oar of it
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: load it into the other grid
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: then teleport over and boom, cache corrupted
[2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but i clear cache and start over its fine
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: but ive seen it happen later too
[2015/01/06 12:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how soon after loading the oar?
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: like weeks after the oars are loaded too
[2015/01/06 12:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: viewers save the cache for different grids to the same place, could that cause problems there?
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: but it doesnt always happen
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: so i cant say its 100% going to fail always for you in testing
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, this sounds like a viewer issue
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe
[2015/01/06 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: if assets are in both places already
[2015/01/06 12:12]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i notice that some times textures show up in my grid that i know are not loaded, the model is but the textures are not and the only place the model and textures are loaded to the grid is SL so i know the viewer is sharing the cache
[2015/01/06 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ya
[2015/01/06 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: that seems a bit unlikely since the asset ids will be different
[2015/01/06 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: it deifnitely shares cache
[2015/01/06 12:13]  Nebadon Izumi: default assets may have same uuids
[2015/01/06 12:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm assuming we are not talking default assets
[2015/01/06 12:13]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: are the asset ids always different? if thats true how come the viewer uses the cached texture from another grid on mine?
[2015/01/06 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: I think it depends on how assets are transfered
[2015/01/06 12:14]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: havnt tested with oars but xml uploads do that
[2015/01/06 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: they won't be different if stuff is transferred via OARs. But that's not possible out of SL, of course
[2015/01/06 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: unless there was some copybot that got them directly and then constructed an OAR with those same asset UUIDs, which isn't impossible I suppose
[2015/01/06 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i wonder how second inventory handles it
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's a ton of hacked content coming in from SL (or valid content being brought in by their original creators via XML
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: I believe SI works through the client interaces, where you couldn't force a given UUID
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: if i recall
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: not oars here. upload an xml saved from SL with NO textures uploaded, the texture will still show from the cache untill u clear it, then it appears white
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: second inventory will allow you to change a uuid
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: but i cant remember now
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: been a long time since i used it
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yes, because it's saved from sl but not inserted into opensim
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont even have it installed anymore
[2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: computer that had it is dead now
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: there's no way to specify a UUID on upload, afair
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Nebadon Izumi: i remember it had options
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Simulator Version v0.5: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osGetSimulatorVersion permission denied.  Allowed threat level is VeryLow but function threat level is High.
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Nebadon Izumi: to swap uuids
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You can still download it from the website nebadon. i think
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tif you know the login
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Nebadon Izumi: it was deep in the advances menus though
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt super obvious
[2015/01/06 12:16]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I have SI but it is on my main machine that is currently dead.
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it allowed you to change uuids on objects that couldnt be retrieved
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: to say a texture that did get retrieved
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's different from upload assets with given uuids
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: k
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think SI is poretty obsolete. dont think it works good in SL to this days. cannot remember when i have used it
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its nearly impossible to export anything from SL
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need to go and do various stuff
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye for now, folks
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: unless you created 100% of everything yourself
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I haven't used SI in a couple of years but it would be useful to copy files between OS grids.
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin.
[2015/01/06 12:17]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Bye, Justin.
[2015/01/06 12:18]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c ya justin
[2015/01/06 12:18]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm also going to head out.
[2015/01/06 12:18]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: By, thanks for the asset info
[2015/01/06 12:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Justin
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