Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-09

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[2014/09/09 11:02]  Dahlia.Trimble is Online
[2014/09/09 11:02]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:02]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:03]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[2014/09/09 11:03]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker hi
[2014/09/09 11:03]  BlueWall.Slade Hey
[2014/09/09 11:03]  Dahlia.Trimble is Online
[2014/09/09 11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker waves
[2014/09/09 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: somebdoy give me a tp, I can';t work out how to get up
[2014/09/09 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: for future
[2014/09/09 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: cam up and sit on a chair
[2014/09/09 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: good as a teleport
[2014/09/09 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: infact thats how some teleporters work
[2014/09/09 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2014/09/09 11:06]  Dahlia.Trimble hi
[2014/09/09 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia
[2014/09/09 11:06]  BlueWall.Slade Hi
[2014/09/09 11:07]  Dahlia.Trimble I cant figure out what is animating me
[2014/09/09 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd
[2014/09/09 11:07]  Dahlia.Trimble my ao isnt responding and my viewer ao is off yet I have non-standard walk
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: you are wearing an OA?
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its scripted AO?
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe try the Stop animating me on menu?
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Dahlia.Trimble yes but its not responding to clicks
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: we do not allow scripts to enter the grid via HG
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: tell me when you finish logging in testers since I need to throw a switch but I don't want to do it whilst I can't observe the possible
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: effects
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Dahlia.Trimble but it still animates me
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: oh
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: i have keynote 1 full
[2014/09/09 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: i can pause if you need me to
[2014/09/09 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: i was just about to sit them
[2014/09/09 11:09]  BlueWall.Slade the animation is still playing from prior to your jump?
[2014/09/09 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would be more useful if you pause
[2014/09/09 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/09/09 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: im paused for moment
[2014/09/09 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: let me know when to start again
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Dahlia.Trimble its switching animations tho
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Mata Hari: fun
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia ive been noticing a bunch lately
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suggest waiting until we actually have ppl in
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: that sometimes avatar gets stuck in sit position after you stand
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe something wierd with animations
[2014/09/09 11:10]  Mata Hari: yes, that happens quite often
[2014/09/09 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: I also updated my router firmware this w/e which did help with anothe rproblem I had been having, so maybe it will help with the bot issue from last week
[2014/09/09 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I see taht sit issue quite a bit
[2014/09/09 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ah great Justin
[2014/09/09 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ya updates can definitely have an effect on UDP
[2014/09/09 11:11]  Mata Hari: the other fun one is when animations get sent to a viewer but the viewer doesn't seem to know how to play them until after a relog
[2014/09/09 11:12]  Mata Hari: they're sitting there in the viewer cache because they'll play instantly after relog though
[2014/09/09 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/09/09 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ive seen that with sounds too
[2014/09/09 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: but I havent actually noticed the sound thing in a while
[2014/09/09 11:12]  Mata Hari: but there is absolutely no way to get them to play until you relog
[2014/09/09 11:13]  Mata Hari: I was wondering if that was related to the new Matnis
[2014/09/09 11:13]  Mata Hari: (but it also happens with same-grid people in region)
[2014/09/09 11:13]  Mata Hari: I've also seen it happen with textures
[2014/09/09 11:14]  Mata Hari: not not nearly as often
[2014/09/09 11:14]  Billy.Bradshaw Sometimes parcelproperties during tp not registered with viewer, the first few steps tends to resend
[2014/09/09 11:14]  Mata Hari: happens with region windlight settings too
[2014/09/09 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker hmm, its quite
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: thats probably same problem as Billy is describing
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Billy.Bradshaw often see the name of the region still dosplayed on the viewer menu
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: what viewer are you using that experineces that?
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Mata Hari nods
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Billy.Bradshaw firestorm
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Mata Hari: FS too
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, 7317 is simply an unexpected issue with stat registration
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: see if you experience same thing
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect that may be a viewer issue
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: but not sure
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Mata Hari: though the animation issue is being seen as well by other viewer users
[2014/09/09 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: ok please try with Singularity
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: got some chat lag there for a second
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Mata Hari: definitely happens with Sing too
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: is it ok for me to start with bots again Justin?
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, wait until we are at keynotes please
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Billy.Bradshaw the parcelproperties are sent early in the tp cycle, maybe too early
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: oh really?
[2014/09/09 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need to check tp. brb
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: k
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/136/51/85
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:17]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Keynote%201/246/231/22
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: now switching viewers, brb
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: my animations are acting wierd too Dahlia
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: something very strange going on
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: region feels laggy
[2014/09/09 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: chat is lagging bad for me
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Mata Hari: just had a login and a HG tp and looks like Bluewall just crashed too
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Dahlia.Trimble this region?
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Dahlia.Trimble seems ok to me
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Mata Hari: so maybe trying to handle a bunch of stuff at once
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: chat lag is really bad
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: I see bluewall still
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: its taking 10-20 seconds for my chat to show up sometimes, and its out of order for me
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Billy.Bradshaw chat seems ok her
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Billy.Bradshaw e
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: test
[2014/09/09 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: fine to me
[2014/09/09 11:21]  vegaslon.plutonian test
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: k
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Seth.Nygard test
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: seems ok at the moment
[2014/09/09 11:21]  vegaslon.plutonian ya I get a bit of lag
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 1
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 2
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 3
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 4
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 5
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: 6
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Mata Hari: region doesn't seem to think here's there
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Seth.Nygard Seems ok here
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: ya seems ok at the moment
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 1
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 2
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 34
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 56
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Mata Hari: 11:20] BlueWall.Slade is offline.
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 79
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 8
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 7
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 6
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 5
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 4
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Allen
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Billy.Bradshaw counting can be fun
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Dahlia.Trimble 639
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: Andrew said he can't make it today
[2014/09/09 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker 3lol 163962
[2014/09/09 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: having computer troubles
[2014/09/09 11:22]  Allen.Kerensky greetings Programs!
[2014/09/09 11:22]  Dahlia.Trimble greetings. Please observe the no-light-cycle restriction
[2014/09/09 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/09/09 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: Allen are you supposed to be a bunch of spheres?
[2014/09/09 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2014/09/09 11:23]  Allen.Kerensky yes
[2014/09/09 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe i was just having a bad internet moment earlier, seems better now
[2014/09/09 11:25]  Allen.Kerensky Shub Internet only wanted a light packet snack
[2014/09/09 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2014/09/09 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i had alot of rewiring done over the weekend
[2014/09/09 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: and got a new cable modem
[2014/09/09 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: one of our cable boxes was acting up
[2014/09/09 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: keep walking
[2014/09/09 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to tp in a bot
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: or don't :)
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: any delay?
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: no
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: that felt good
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think i even hardly stuttered
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Richardus.Raymaker its only one ! :)
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect those bots with no attachments are pretty lightweight
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[2014/09/09 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, we'll see later. It might be another clusterfuck yet
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Mata Hari: do you want a "heavy" inbound tp?
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: I had to do a load of changes right at the last minute because of unexpected other stuff I had to do
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: sure
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Mata Hari: sec
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: and only then I saw a bug report
[2014/09/09 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: about something I changed which inadvertantly broke incoming hg teleports
[2014/09/09 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: and even now I realize an inefficiency I added but I don't know if it has big impact or not
[2014/09/09 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm hoping not
[2014/09/09 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: i can jump a HG person in
[2014/09/09 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: lets see if that lags it
[2014/09/09 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, tjhat's another test, particular if they have heavy attachments
[2014/09/09 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya this one has a few attachments
[2014/09/09 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its mesh avatar
[2014/09/09 11:30]  Mata Hari: okay Neb, start walking and I'll bring Aine in
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, still lag
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: and of course, firt tele fails
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Allen.Kerensky pictures a test av with 255-prim link sets on every attachment and HUD point, all prims scripted with 0.5s timers running
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: it generate a lot of asset requests over hg
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: my teleport didnt fail
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Mata Hari: tp is going to time out and fail
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Mata Hari: it's locked in the tp screen at the moment
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Richardus.Raymaker Alleen , NOOOOO
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is why attachment prims will probably have to be limited some time soon
[2014/09/09 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: at least for oscc
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Allen.Kerensky as a test av - can you think of a heavier test?
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble lol good luck with that
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Mata Hari: rule #1: thou shalt be bald
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Allen.Kerensky "Teleport Denied - you're a prim hog - strip and try again"
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi i have a pretty insane avatar
[2014/09/09 11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble how would you pick which ones to allow?
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Allen.Kerensky max prims per attach point and max total prim weight
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: limtied by number and/or total prim
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi unfortunately its an OSgrid alt
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Allen.Kerensky plus some script weight factors
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi it has all of my sculpted islands attached
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi the volcanoes and stuff
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi lol
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi its pretty nasty
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Aine.Caoimhe tp attempt #2....instantaneous
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Dahlia.Trimble "prim weight"?
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Richardus.Raymaker Alleen, carefull with that 'strip' :O
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi its wearing like 1000 sculpty prims
[2014/09/09 11:33]  Dahlia.Trimble what is prim weight?
[2014/09/09 11:34]  Allen.Kerensky oh yeah sculpty prims to get the extra texture load
[2014/09/09 11:34]  Allen.Kerensky and of course - 1K or 2K textures
[2014/09/09 11:34]  Nebadon.Izumi depends on your physics settings :P *rimshot*
[2014/09/09 11:34]  Allen.Kerensky calculating a TP allowed or not "weight" based on factors - like the old avatar resource cost thing that SL freaked out over
[2014/09/09 11:34]  Billy.Bradshaw just ban Nebadon, seems to be the only one with extravagant avatars
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Nebadon.Izumi lol
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon has probably caused me a lot of grief
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Allen.Kerensky now THAT was a piece of clear thinking
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble the avatar rendering cost thingie was a fake metric
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Allen.Kerensky sure it was - but it was a start that got sabotaged by whine
[2014/09/09 11:35]  Allen.Kerensky the land cost thing for mesh is another
[2014/09/09 11:36]  Allen.Kerensky basically - calculating (somehow) the load a given thing causes to server
[2014/09/09 11:36]  Allen.Kerensky and then putting in configurable threshholds or costs of some sort
[2014/09/09 11:36]  Richardus.Raymaker well, its still usefull you dont want a 32000 verticles shirt
[2014/09/09 11:36]  Dahlia.Trimble well the land cost thing at least tries to take LL's cost model into account
[2014/09/09 11:36]  Allen.Kerensky every time LL tried it - they got crucified
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Mata Hari: mesh land costs are money-grab....consider that you can make a mesh cube with 4 verts, scale it to 64m and it will have a land weight of something like 16
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Mata Hari: er...8 verts.
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi linksets are probably the worst in terms of cost
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi the avatar im wearing is actually very low impact
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi im not sure i could get any lower
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Richardus.Raymaker yes. thats the weird thing
[2014/09/09 11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi its almost pure mesh, no linksets
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Dahlia.Trimble ya if you're an artist and you make things which load slow and are difficult to render and you work for a game company you wont be employed for long. SL/OpenSim has no such restrictions tho
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi avatar cost shows 156 for me
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi which is crazy low, not sure how accurate it is here
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Allen.Kerensky SL's next world is likely to have some "rules" around content which SL didn't have
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Allen.Kerensky since "User Generated Content" was the number one LL swear word from probably 2006 on
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi ya maybe, Bluemars tried that too
[2014/09/09 11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi that worked out awesome for them
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Allen.Kerensky yeah speaking of blue mars - in some ways - hypergrid seems like that
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Dahlia.Trimble avatar cost is totally bogus neb
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Mata Hari: think if the tp method was a little different it would solve a lot of issues
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Allen.Kerensky lots of land and builds - utterly still and silent
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi well Facebook has what
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi 3 billion users
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi and its also dead
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi lol
[2014/09/09 11:39]  Allen.Kerensky messing with the hypergrid seems a lot like playing myst - great to look at - but you have to work at finding the clues of things to do
[2014/09/09 11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi yea
[2014/09/09 11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi would be nice to have some kind of reliable means to find other grids
[2014/09/09 11:40]  Allen.Kerensky as the HG groups and friends and comms improve that will easy off
[2014/09/09 11:40]  Allen.Kerensky Neb folks have been talking about that very thing a lot for obvious reasons
[2014/09/09 11:40]  Mata Hari: sure....*if* they improve
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi hmm chat lag again
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi yea its not an easy problem to resolve
[2014/09/09 11:41]  vegaslon.plutonian osgrid was just the number one easiest way to find other places on the hypergrid...
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Allen.Kerensky been some interesting ideas kicked around with a "shared" or "common" DNS tree like
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 1
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 2
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Allen.Kerensky and then put in some gridinfo like records in teh gridnick and regionname subdomains
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 3
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 4
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 5
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: 6
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Mata Hari: that would be interesting
[2014/09/09 11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi yea who manages that though
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi whatever the solution it needs to be decentralized
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Mata Hari: god :p
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi or eventually it will be to big to manage
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Allen.Kerensky service (SRV), host info (HINFO), responsible person (RP), and description (TXT) for starters
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi for free anyway
[2014/09/09 11:42]  Allen.Kerensky and yeah it needs a 3Dish version of NSF or ICANN to start
[2014/09/09 11:43]  Billy.Bradshaw The viewer people warned of excessive memory use by the viewer if var regions become to large, monitoring the viewer memory with various sizes of vars seems to make only marginal difference
[2014/09/09 11:43]  Nebadon.Izumi brb i need to get a drink of water
[2014/09/09 11:43]  vegaslon.plutonian yes that was a problem before the var regions only loaded what was in veiw range to start
[2014/09/09 11:43]  vegaslon.plutonian as far as terrain went
[2014/09/09 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is as you move around the var region, I don't believe the old terrain patches unload
[2014/09/09 11:43]  Billy.Bradshaw on SL LL viewer can exceed 1g with about 30 avatars close by
[2014/09/09 11:44]  vegaslon.plutonian you still will have a problem if you go to every corner of the var region though and it is of a excessive size
[2014/09/09 11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi back
[2014/09/09 11:44]  vegaslon.plutonian would be nice if the terrain patches could unload
[2014/09/09 11:44]  Allen.Kerensky so... put a "buy more ram" link on the websites?
[2014/09/09 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, the viewer would have to drop old terrain bits and I would doubt any of them do that
[2014/09/09 11:44]  Billy.Bradshaw point is it does not appear to be memory consumption
[2014/09/09 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: the unload has to be done by the viewer
[2014/09/09 11:45]  vegaslon.plutonian that is why border crossings will always be a thing
[2014/09/09 11:45]  vegaslon.plutonian that is the only sure way to unload terrain
[2014/09/09 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: all you need is a viewer that unloads terrain
[2014/09/09 11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi one thing odd ive noticed about Terrain
[2014/09/09 11:45]  Billy.Bradshaw ++
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi is if in the viewer i have the terrain quality set low
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi as i cam around the terrain sort of pops in and out
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi i actually get better frame rate if that doesnt happen
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi if i just leave it on maximum terrain qualkty
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi i get better frames
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi its like the constant LOD changes reduce framerate or something
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Allen.Kerensky LoD shifting causing rebuilds in the scene graph or something?
[2014/09/09 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi thats what I am thinking
[2014/09/09 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi seems to me like your making your hardware work harder
[2014/09/09 11:47]  Allen.Kerensky swapping the memory trees around excessively can't be pretty
[2014/09/09 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi i have 4gb of video card memory though
[2014/09/09 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi so maybe thats why
[2014/09/09 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi maximum quality doesnt actually stress my hardware
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Richardus.Raymaker what you want with 4G if the viewer only use 512MB ?
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi making it constantly shift through the LODS must create more work than just displaying the full quality
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi because thats the only configuration this laptop comes in
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Richardus.Raymaker its only usefull; with more applications. thats why i buyed a betetr one to
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is neb, you have an unusual hardware system. Most people have far worse gfx capabilities
[2014/09/09 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi its an Asus G750JH with a Nvidia 780GTX
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi ya
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Richardus.Raymaker most people have al;most no gfx. the think laptops are for games etc
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Richardus.Raymaker still on my 670
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi on an interesting note
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi Intel has a new chp
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi that is supposed to level tha playing field
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi remove the lines between desktop and laptop
[2014/09/09 11:49]  Mata Hari: I have a question about V2 groups...when OSG first went down I did a quick install with Diva distro which I think uses her own groups module, but when it became apparent that OSG would be down longer I switched over to a full new build from git. The groups module I'm using is the built-in V2 one but apparently it limits you to being a member of only 2 groups (including any HG groups you're invited to hjoin). Is that intentional or is it a hold-over from something from my Diva install?
[2014/09/09 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know. I do know the V2 groups in core is not restricted
[2014/09/09 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: might be a config thing
[2014/09/09 11:50]  Richardus.Raymaker hmm, no i think you can do more groups. but only used the robust setup
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Nebadon.Izumi,27596.html
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Richardus.Raymaker maby restriction in standalone
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Mata Hari: it would have to be a something in MySQL since I did a completely clean install
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Nebadon.Izumi Core M chips
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: there's no standalone restriction
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would expect this is a config issue
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Mata Hari: I can see a restriction in *creating* groups
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Mata Hari: but group membership?
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Nebadon.Izumi it should not do that Mata
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: I expect LL limits group membership because of group chat issues
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Nebadon.Izumi that may be a limit only imposed by Divas Distro
[2014/09/09 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: here we're more stupid and do not usually have limits, just letting people run in to the wall of shit perfomrmance isntead
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Nebadon.Izumi core groups itself wont do that
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Richardus.Raymaker Justin, then the can beter go down to 2 groups
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Mata Hari: sure...but I am limited to being a member of 2 groups total
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Marcus.Llewellyn Boo limits. >:D
[2014/09/09 11:52]  BlueWall.Slade do you think it is the "group-less" config?
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Nebadon.Izumi I suspsect diva changes something in her code
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Nebadon.Izumi to impose those limits
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Nebadon.Izumi let me ask her
[2014/09/09 11:52]  BlueWall.Slade where the sim makes fake groups
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Mata Hari: kk...but I am not using any of her code
[2014/09/09 11:52]  Mata Hari: the code I'm using now is built completely from current git into a new directory
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi ok she says the limit was removed
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Mata Hari: however, I *did* keep the database
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi that is odd for sure
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi the database shouldnt be a factor
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Mata Hari: so the only way a limit can be imposing itself is somehow through MySQL
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi she was changing the DLL in her distrop
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi you sure your not dropping in old dlls?
[2014/09/09 11:53]  Mata Hari: 100% sure
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Nebadon.Izumi ya that is odd
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Nebadon.Izumi i can't imagine mysql being a factor either
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Nebadon.Izumi i run core groups on many grids
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Voice not available at your current location
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Connected
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Mata Hari: I downloaded the git, built it to new directory, launched from there
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Nebadon.Izumi and there is no 2 group limit
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Mata Hari: yeah, I didn't think so either
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Marcus.Llewellyn I don't see anything in the v2 group DBs that keep track of the number of groups someone belongs to.
[2014/09/09 11:54]  Mata Hari:'s there somehow and won't go away
[2014/09/09 11:55]  Marcus.Llewellyn So it's prolly not the DBs.
[2014/09/09 11:55]  Mata Hari: could her installer put a dll into MySQL that limits it?
[2014/09/09 11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi well she claims its no longer limited
[2014/09/09 11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi so I dont thinks so
[2014/09/09 11:55]  Mata Hari: I used her Aug distro package
[2014/09/09 11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi ya that should be clear
[2014/09/09 11:56]  Mata Hari: would have thought so
[2014/09/09 11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi i think it was removed a few revs back for her distro
[2014/09/09 11:56]  Mata Hari: I have looked through everything I can think of and simply can't find any reason why I keep getting the "you can only be a member of 2 groups" notice
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Marcus.Llewellyn Happens with all viewers?
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Dahlia.Trimble oh thie bot has an away timeout?
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi ok diva said the only thing she can think of
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi is its an old dll or a bad install
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: that bot is actually my viewer logged in
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: currently
[2014/09/09 11:57]  Seth.Nygard I have the same Diva install and see the same 2 group limit
[2014/09/09 11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi hmm ok
[2014/09/09 11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi i let her know
[2014/09/09 11:58]  Mata Hari: I have deleted my Diva install completely from my harddrive....the only thing I didn't delete was the MySQL database it built
[2014/09/09 11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi Seth your running latest code too?
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Mata Hari: I used that one when I switched over to my built-from-git one
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn  
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn *********************
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn **     Close Encounter    **
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn **  Fridays better than  **
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn **        every home         **
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn *********************
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Seth.Nygard The August Diva distro
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: Marcus: er, testing some advertising? :)
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi I let her know see what she finds
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn Nopers. Why? I look funny somehow?
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Mata Hari: then one at the top: added 8/10/2014
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn Oh...
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: that stuff about Close Encounter
[2014/09/09 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn Sorry... I must have triggered a gesture.
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Marcus.Llewellyn Oops.
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: right, well it's 12:00
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm interesting in seeing the interesting way in which things don't work well today
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Mata Hari: okies
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: so I'm going to tp over to the keynotes
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Mata Hari: I'll be interested to see what she says
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks over there
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Region found!
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Mata Hari: should I add a Mantis on it?
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Staff%20Zone%201/133/55/85
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/09 12:00]  Connected
[2014/09/09 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade quick rezzing today
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Marcus.Llewellyn sits well behind the killer lasers.
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Nebadon.Izumi probably cause my bots arent here
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: you can start logging in bots now again if you want
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Nebadon.Izumi is it ok to log them in now Justin?
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Nebadon.Izumi k
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: lag
[2014/09/09 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm hoping to avoid the 100 ms deep sleep from last week
[2014/09/09 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: laoggity lag
[2014/09/09 12:03]  Marcus.Llewellyn 12:03
[2014/09/09 12:04]  Mata Hari: lag 12:03
[2014/09/09 12:04]  Mata Hari: chat lag not bad at all
[2014/09/09 12:04]  Mata Hari: almost non-existent
[2014/09/09 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: mvmt jerkiness but no deep sleep yet
[2014/09/09 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: of course, I have efefctively altered things a bit by stopping neb logging in all his bots before we arrived
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 1
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 2
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 3
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 4
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 5
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 6
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 7
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 8
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 9
[2014/09/09 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade 0
[2014/09/09 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade Works here too :D
[2014/09/09 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, bad mvmt lag
[2014/09/09 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: but if not too much chat lag this might more be down to packet queueing and processing than horrible thread jamming
[2014/09/09 12:06]  BlueWall.Slade things rezzed really fast for me her this week - I tp's in from my home grid.
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: frame times quite stable
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: so maybe more the udp stuff now.....
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey lives in hope
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Mata Hari: lol
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Mata Hari thought you lived in the UK
[2014/09/09 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there I live in a deep depression ;)
[2014/09/09 12:07]  Mata Hari: as wet one, no doubt
[2014/09/09 12:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: neb: tell me when you finish logging bots in. I want to see if mvmt stabliizes
[2014/09/09 12:08]  Nebadon.Izumi ok i have 60 in
[2014/09/09 12:08]  Nebadon.Izumi 20 more
[2014/09/09 12:08]  BlueWall.Slade I gotta fly, will keep it parked here
[2014/09/09 12:09]  BlueWall.Slade Take care
[2014/09/09 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye bluewall
[2014/09/09 12:09]  Mata Hari: bye bluewall
[2014/09/09 12:10]  Mata Hari: lol....."".....
[2014/09/09 12:10]  Marcus.Llewellyn FS crashed on me. :P
[2014/09/09 12:10]  Mata Hari: next one will be ?
[2014/09/09 12:10]  Marcus.Llewellyn lol
[2014/09/09 12:10]  Mata Hari: or ""
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Shez.Oyen
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Mata Hari: wow...those are both taken
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Marcus.Llewellyn I prefer to think of it as mad as in wildy eccentric. ;)
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Mata Hari: oh...mad scientist type thing
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Seth.Nygard
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Shez.Oyen lol
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Mata Hari: so more a or
[2014/09/09 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: not all these bots have huge attachment sets, right?
[2014/09/09 12:12]  Nebadon.Izumi not all Justin
[2014/09/09 12:12]  Nebadon.Izumi some are pretty basic avatars
[2014/09/09 12:12]  Nebadon.Izumi almost all have some attachments of some kind though
[2014/09/09 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: hmm
[2014/09/09 12:13]  Billy.Bradshaw Nebadon, If your system becomes super loaded, would that not reflect back to the server
[2014/09/09 12:14]  Mata Hari: sim ping seems unusually slow but everything else seems pretty good
[2014/09/09 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: billy: how do you mean?
[2014/09/09 12:15]  Billy.Bradshaw the viewer acknowleging server updates
[2014/09/09 12:15]  Nebadon.Izumi ok all 80 are in Justin
[2014/09/09 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think the worst that would happen then is an increased in packet resend from the server
[2014/09/09 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is not great but i don't believe it is huge impact
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I want to take a few mins to assess mvmt feel
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Billy.Bradshaw k
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Nebadon.Izumi for some reason the ssh consoles are unresponsive to me
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Nebadon.Izumi are they ok for you Justin?
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok for me
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Nebadon.Izumi wierd
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: almost sounds like you might be having some personal network issues
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: though there are issues with login, particularly hg I think
[2014/09/09 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: as you can see, lots of asset and missing inv requests on console
[2014/09/09 12:17]  Nebadon.Izumi i cant see anything on consoles
[2014/09/09 12:17]  Nebadon.Izumi they are completely unresponsive
[2014/09/09 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: there is an xml parse thing I can improve a bit for hg, I just need to bs sure I don't screw it up
[2014/09/09 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: still fine for me
[2014/09/09 12:17]  Nebadon.Izumi k
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: but hg probably presents another set of issues on top of ordinary avatars with lots of atachments
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, mvmt feels pretty ok
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am going to start my own bot login in about a minute or two
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Nebadon.Izumi hmm
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Nebadon.Izumi well i made the mistake of closing ssh console
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Nebadon.Izumi to try to reconnect
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: mvmt just still hitches up when someone enters the region
[2014/09/09 12:18]  Nebadon.Izumi cant even reconnect
[2014/09/09 12:19]  Nebadon.Izumi wierd finally login prompt came up and i got to console
[2014/09/09 12:19]  Nebadon.Izumi but now its frozen again cant type or anything
[2014/09/09 12:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: still occasional hitch on ordinary mvmt, my current suspicion is occasional jobs that generate a lot of work or threads
[2014/09/09 12:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: you said youi just change a lot of your network hw?
[2014/09/09 12:20]  Nebadon.Izumi whats odd is on the same computer the viewer is fine
[2014/09/09 12:20]  Nebadon.Izumi i did but speeds improved
[2014/09/09 12:20]  Nebadon.Izumi it was fine 5 minutes ago
[2014/09/09 12:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, starting bot login on kn 2, 3, then 4 from my local
[2014/09/09 12:21]  Nebadon.Izumi k
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 1
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 2
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 3
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 4
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 5
[2014/09/09 12:23]  Marcus.Llewellyn It's weird when all the bots look in the same direction. It's very Village of the Damned.
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: border cross limit seems to be working justin
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: i moved the invisible walls up
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: still cant cross
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: one more thing I don't need to worry about having an adverse effect
[2014/09/09 12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: certainly makes caming around more pleasant as well
[2014/09/09 12:26]  Nebadon Izumi: heh remind me to not take 2 benedryl before a meeting / load test ever again
[2014/09/09 12:26]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/09/09 12:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: feeling.... sleep?
[2014/09/09 12:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: sleepy?
[2014/09/09 12:27]  Nebadon Izumi: must fight desire to lay on floor and sleep
[2014/09/09 12:27]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/09/09 12:27]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: you see there is still detectable jerkiness whilst bots are loggin ginto other regions
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: and occasionally bigger hitches, which might be due to some periodic server activity
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but it feels considerably better this week
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: either some job or memory recovery if we're unlucky
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: since the latter is harder to address
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: we could increase the GC pool for mono
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Dahlia.Trimble I get some jerkyness but I think its client side
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: that might lessen the effect of thrasshing
[2014/09/09 12:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would like to know if it's that first
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect it might actually be an opensim issue
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: whats the avatar count right now?
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: i experience the same so I think more server
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Dahlia.Trimble is the server thrashing?
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: 212
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, it's pretty stable
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Billy.Bradshaw is see 243 in list
[2014/09/09 12:29]  Dahlia.Trimble shouldnt it have swap disabled?
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: virtually no swap in use
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Nebadon.Izumi i doubt its actually swapping
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Nebadon.Izumi shouldnt be
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Dahlia.Trimble shouldnt even have swap
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: most memory is caching. Sims themselves aren't taking a lot, biggest user in mysql at 14% or so
[2014/09/09 12:30]  Dahlia.Trimble swap not good for servers
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Nebadon.Izumi it only has a 2gb swap
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, gonna connect bots to here, which might be a bit rougher
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Nebadon.Izumi and 64gb ram
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Dahlia.Trimble it shouldnt have any swap
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 12:31]  Billy.Bradshaw swapoff -a
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Nebadon.Izumi heh im not doing that now
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Dahlia.Trimble should work :)
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: lag
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Nebadon.Izumi never touch swap when your high on bendryls :P
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: er yeah, pls not right now :)
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: might be pure me
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: 1
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: 2
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: 3
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: 4
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Nebadon.Izumi its a little laggy feeling
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Nebadon.Izumi not horrible
[2014/09/09 12:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: mvmt feels ok
[2014/09/09 12:33]  Dahlia.Trimble I move smoothly
[2014/09/09 12:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: your bots definitely have a bigger impact... all those prims...
[2014/09/09 12:33]  Nebadon.Izumi ya
[2014/09/09 12:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, 268
[2014/09/09 12:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to have to try connecting bots from your system now, I don't have anything else handy
[2014/09/09 12:34]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 12:35]  Billy.Bradshaw dahlia, definitely appear to have a glide
[2014/09/09 12:35]  Marcus.Llewellyn Movements has been flawless for me. I also haven't seen anything wrong with other people's movements.
[2014/09/09 12:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, biggest ft peak I've seen so far, a good 30 ms
[2014/09/09 12:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'd love to get it rock solid though... it really shouldn't need to change as there's spare time available even at this peaks
[2014/09/09 12:36]  Nebadon.Izumi feels really good to me as well
[2014/09/09 12:37]  Marcus.Llewellyn Woops, just got my first tiny hitch. Very tiny.
[2014/09/09 12:37]  Nebadon.Izumi maybe thats the benedryl talking though lol
[2014/09/09 12:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I am getting some timeout issues with getting bots on your side in
[2014/09/09 12:37]  Dahlia.Trimble can you make the bots walk?
[2014/09/09 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: I will once we've had stability at high numbers for a while
[2014/09/09 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: walking will massively lag us because we're not dealing with all th epakcets well enough, though I would be interested in seeing the effect on phys and ft
[2014/09/09 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's usually very bad as well
[2014/09/09 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: 1
[2014/09/09 12:39]  Dahlia.Trimble meh its udp, let it lose the packets :P
[2014/09/09 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok no, I have problems from last week again, bots disconnecting
[2014/09/09 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum
[2014/09/09 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't get any chance to look into that
[2014/09/09 12:40]  Nebadon.Izumi phew making me actually dizzy doing that lol
[2014/09/09 12:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: also I do seem to get a pretty slow response from your systems neb, though it might also be that I'm heavily loaded locally
[2014/09/09 12:40]  Nebadon.Izumi could be
[2014/09/09 12:40]  Nebadon.Izumi my router might need a kick at some point
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Marcus.Llewellyn Welp, I just moved almost constantly for 5 minutes. Had two definite but very small rubberbands. Otherwise the experience was excellent.
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Nebadon.Izumi ya
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Nebadon.Izumi same here Marcus
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Nebadon.Izumi the biggest time i notice the lag is when im turning avtatar
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Nebadon.Izumi i just ran in circle for 5 minutes
[2014/09/09 12:41]  Nebadon.Izumi hardly a blip
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Marcus.Llewellyn I thought I felt a tiny lag when turning too, but it's so small that I thought it might just be me.
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Nebadon.Izumi for this many avatars im not sure we can ever make it perfect
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'mn wondering if there might also be a bug in switching between scene update strategies on the fly
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Nebadon.Izumi even in SL you will start to feel lag eventually
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I did it a lot last week but this week we have been update in timer all the way
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: there is room for improvement I feel, we've been nowhere near topping out on cpu
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Nebadon.Izumi great
[2014/09/09 12:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: but there's only a certain amount of time left now before the conference
[2014/09/09 12:43]  Nebadon.Izumi ya
[2014/09/09 12:43]  Nebadon.Izumi about 2 months
[2014/09/09 12:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: going to have to concentrate on getting bots back, then looking at hg issues, then see if remaining mvmt banding on avatar entry can be addressed in some way
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Dahlia.Trimble really should allow border crossing here
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: would love to look at implementing thread priority properly on mono but that might have to wait now
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Nebadon.Izumi sounds like a plan
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Dahlia.Trimble the border fences look like a band-aid
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Marcus.Llewellyn I don't wanna mix with those filthy KN4 avatars. They smell funny.
[2014/09/09 12:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: and we've had reaonsable tests before - have to have a series of better ones really
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Nebadon.Izumi well mostly the border fence now is just to let people know where the border is
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Nebadon.Izumi border crossing is now disable here
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Nebadon.Izumi invisible walls are gone
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Dahlia.Trimble it should be enabled and *gasp* debugged if necessary
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Nebadon.Izumi wouldnt matter
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: and *gasp* whose going to do that debugging?
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Nebadon.Izumi groups would prevent most people from crossing anyway
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Marcus.Llewellyn I thought dahlia just volunteered. ;)
[2014/09/09 12:45]  Dahlia.Trimble blames justin :)
[2014/09/09 12:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm doing the best I can in the time available in a stupidly complex system
[2014/09/09 12:46]  Nebadon.Izumi doing great too, feels much improved today I must say
[2014/09/09 12:46]  Dahlia.Trimble well justin is the only one who gets paid for this :)
[2014/09/09 12:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't get paid for this kind of thing
[2014/09/09 12:47]  Nebadon.Izumi gives Justin 1000 Nebcoin$
[2014/09/09 12:47]  Nebadon.Izumi lol
[2014/09/09 12:47]  Aine.Caoimhe oooooh....the rare and exotic Nebcoin!
[2014/09/09 12:47]  Marcus.Llewellyn OSgrid upload vouchers are always good.
[2014/09/09 12:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: ahhh :)
[2014/09/09 12:48]  Aine.Caoimhe only if there's an asset server to upload to... :p
[2014/09/09 12:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: mkaing attemps to get bots in but it's not going to be stable so I will give up in a minute
[2014/09/09 12:49]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 12:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: need to address that issue, since they were certainly more stable in the past
[2014/09/09 12:50]  Nebadon.Izumi wonder how hard it would be to dress up all your bots
[2014/09/09 12:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: probably not that hard really, but first thing would be to fix appearance
[2014/09/09 12:50]  Nebadon.Izumi thats a pcampbot issue?
[2014/09/09 12:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: I thin kit's some interaction with pCampbot/libomv since I think they're fine if I directly og in with a viewer
[2014/09/09 12:50]  Nebadon.Izumi or something in core code?
[2014/09/09 12:51]  Nebadon.Izumi yea
[2014/09/09 12:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, libomv might be expecting something that the ll server does that opensim doesn't do or doesn't do properly
[2014/09/09 12:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: as well
[2014/09/09 12:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, not getting much above 300 today with these bot issues
[2014/09/09 12:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to start some moving over in kn2
[2014/09/09 12:52]  Nebadon.Izumi k
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that's triggering some lag
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Marcus.Llewellyn It's like lemmings.
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Nebadon.Izumi doesnt feel much different to me
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Nebadon.Izumi that may be your hardware
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: whe nothing is moving everything becomes pretty smooth
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Nebadon.Izumi struggling to render the movmeent with this many avatars
[2014/09/09 12:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am maxed out , though I doubt it's gfx
[2014/09/09 12:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's the kind of rubber banding reminiscent of server delays to me
[2014/09/09 12:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: not a huge amount but enough to be noticeable
[2014/09/09 12:54]  Dahlia.Trimble would be interesting to set up a duplicate keynote region that was a single var and try a loadtest there
[2014/09/09 12:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: does seem to have settled down though, I have better mvmt now
[2014/09/09 12:55]  Nebadon.Izumi i suspect physics would be more problematic
[2014/09/09 12:55]  BlueWall.Slade would it be helpful to do more than one load test per week?
[2014/09/09 12:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: not at this point, I barely have enough time to prepare for the weeklies
[2014/09/09 12:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: today was super last minute
[2014/09/09 12:56]  Nebadon.Izumi I would presonally like to see border region performance improve
[2014/09/09 12:56]  Nebadon.Izumi going to var is kind of like giving up at this point, though i do suspect completely different issues would arise in a var
[2014/09/09 12:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: var would definitely see worse issues with udp queueing
[2014/09/09 12:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would say
[2014/09/09 12:57]  BlueWall.Slade well, in this kind of configuration you have child agents everywhere ...
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: and of course, you're piling everything onto one phys thread then
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Nebadon.Izumi yes
[2014/09/09 12:57]  BlueWall.Slade wouldn't it lightent the load woth those?
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that 's the other side - child agents are a considerable cost
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Nebadon.Izumi i suspect physics would be the big sore point
[2014/09/09 12:57]  BlueWall.Slade and Bullet can operate on a separate thread?
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Aine.Caoimhe yeps
[2014/09/09 12:57]  Nebadon.Izumi it already is
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to start bots in this region moving
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: to see ft impact
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Nebadon.Izumi and we are pushing the limits here already
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Nebadon.Izumi frozen
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: I still hav emvmt though jerky
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: ft isdefinitely elevated now
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Dahlia.Trimble the dsg people probably know a few things about the physics limits
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Nebadon.Izumi ya
[2014/09/09 12:58]  Nebadon.Izumi big movement delay now
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: settling down a bit
[2014/09/09 12:59]  BlueWall.Slade do we know where the bottleneck is? You say it's not CPU. Is it disk io, network io??
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Nebadon.Izumi well even with physics on its own thread
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Nebadon.Izumi it can only ever use 1 cpu core
[2014/09/09 12:59]  BlueWall.Slade if none of those ut internal?
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: there are several bottlenecks. One is probably contention between a very largenumber of threads
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Nebadon.Izumi if your talking about 400 avatars in a single region
[2014/09/09 12:59]  Nebadon.Izumi i dont think bulletsim is up to the task
[2014/09/09 13:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: made harder to control when each sim is running in its own process
[2014/09/09 13:00]  Nebadon.Izumi unless we force sit everyone
[2014/09/09 13:00]  Nebadon.Izumi in wich case there is no real need for physics at all
[2014/09/09 13:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: ft is elevated but I have pretty goo dmvmt
[2014/09/09 13:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: might be an initial flood of packets when the bots all start moving hitch things up for a little while
[2014/09/09 13:00]  BlueWall.Slade so each sim is in it's own instance
[2014/09/09 13:01]  BlueWall.Slade each sim gets 2 cores
[2014/09/09 13:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: yiou can see that even with phys in a different thread there's quite a lot of time devoted to it
[2014/09/09 13:01]  BlueWall.Slade do you have more cores?
[2014/09/09 13:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not really, each sim gets all cores but so does every other sim
[2014/09/09 13:01]  BlueWall.Slade ok, distributed by the OS
[2014/09/09 13:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: so because opensim is so free with "fire and forget" a huge amount of work can be attempted at once
[2014/09/09 13:02]  Marcus.Llewellyn What's it, a 12core XEON?
[2014/09/09 13:02]  BlueWall.Slade yes
[2014/09/09 13:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: which perhaps in theory is fine, but in practice is not
[2014/09/09 13:02]  BlueWall.Slade I have seen that in maps before
[2014/09/09 13:02]  Nebadon.Izumi its 2 x Hexa Xeons
[2014/09/09 13:03]  Nebadon.Izumi 24 virtual cores
[2014/09/09 13:03]  Marcus.Llewellyn Has assigning affinity ever been tried?
[2014/09/09 13:03]  BlueWall.Slade eat a whole server in a short blast
[2014/09/09 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: a huge amount of contention between different threads, perhaps
[2014/09/09 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: vastly more threads than there are cores
[2014/09/09 13:03]  BlueWall.Slade sure
[2014/09/09 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: what I'm doing right now is tryihng to control that by doing certain jobs serially, particularyl in login
[2014/09/09 13:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: so instead of having lots of avatars attempt to rez attachments at once, the jobs are done one at a time
[2014/09/09 13:04]  BlueWall.Slade that is a good idea
[2014/09/09 13:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: which does appear to have improved things on that front, fingers crossed
[2014/09/09 13:04]  BlueWall.Slade i can remember it taking a very long time to login to secondlife at times
[2014/09/09 13:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: we still do login concurrently. I'm hoping it not necessary to go the whole hog of reducing concurrency on that, though perhaps that would be sensible
[2014/09/09 13:05]  Marcus.Llewellyn I gotta say, even with the bots in motion, this ia much, much better experience than I remember from SL with a ton of avatars.
[2014/09/09 13:05]  Nebadon.Izumi yea
[2014/09/09 13:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: to be fair, we have hugely more resource than ll, where they are restricted to many fewer cores
[2014/09/09 13:05]  Nebadon.Izumi even SL with 100s of avatars moving is quite unpleasnt
[2014/09/09 13:06]  Marcus.Llewellyn Just flying off into the sunset is typical in SL under these conditions.
[2014/09/09 13:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, ft is elevated but mvmt pretty okay
[2014/09/09 13:06]  Aine.Caoimhe have you over tracked on the largest grids how many logins occur per minute on average? I would think it's relatively low and if serial logins smoothed things out significantly....
[2014/09/09 13:07]  Nebadon.Izumi even the largest opensim grids its like 1/10,000th of what SL sees
[2014/09/09 13:07]  Aine.Caoimhe exactly
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Nebadon.Izumi even if you combined every OpenSim Grid + Standalone it would still be that
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Nebadon.Izumi however SL its spread out
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Aine.Caoimhe that's why I can't see serial login as being all that problematic....I'd be surprised if more than 5 logins + inbound HG tp happen per minute on average in OSG
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: if that's the case then serial login wouldn't help them
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Nebadon.Izumi most of their grid is empty too
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Nebadon.Izumi you would be hard pressed in SL to find any region with more than 40 real avatars
[2014/09/09 13:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's only of benefit if you have an extremely busy region like these will be
[2014/09/09 13:09]  Nebadon.Izumi if you average out how many regions they have plus how many concurrent users are on the grid
[2014/09/09 13:09]  BlueWall.Slade on the other hand, it is probably never so busy in a short time on a single sim in SL.
[2014/09/09 13:09]  Nebadon.Izumi there is about enough for 1.5 to 2 avatars per region
[2014/09/09 13:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, stopping avatar mvmt to see if things return to normal
[2014/09/09 13:10]  Marcus.Llewellyn +1 Bluewall, except perhaps for special events. And it's not pretty there for those.
[2014/09/09 13:10]  BlueWall.Slade they cap them at about 40 avatars for those
[2014/09/09 13:10]  Marcus.Llewellyn And they still crash, and shrug it off.
[2014/09/09 13:11]  Aine.Caoimhe was just thinking that if login was serial then it would be easier to restrict how much of a region's resources it eats so a single inbound tp doesn't make everythng else in the region grind to a halt for 20 seconds
[2014/09/09 13:11]  BlueWall.Slade I had a place in there on "Casteal Maol" and someone asked me what it meany. I told them it was Japanese for "Laggy Sim".
[2014/09/09 13:11]  Marcus.Llewellyn lol
[2014/09/09 13:11]  Nebadon.Izumi lol
[2014/09/09 13:11]  BlueWall.Slade maybe 10 avatars and couldn't move
[2014/09/09 13:11]  Nebadon.Izumi my friend Max Graf had a region called LagnMoor
[2014/09/09 13:11]  BlueWall.Slade haha
[2014/09/09 13:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: wel,l this is exactly what I' have been doing, though not gong as for as to serialize the whole login process
[2014/09/09 13:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: as that in itself wouldn't help because of all the async tasks launched
[2014/09/09 13:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's easier to control some of those async tasks
[2014/09/09 13:12]  Aine.Caoimhe just sort of box it off into its own set of limits?
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Dahlia.Trimble bye all :) *poofs*
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Aine.Caoimhe bye Dahlia
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I think I've learnt what I wanted to today, thanks everyone for coming
[2014/09/09 13:13]  BlueWall.Slade bye Dahlia
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Dahlia.Trimble is Online
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: real ppl are a great help
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Nebadon.Izumi cool
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: disconnecting bots
[2014/09/09 13:13]  BlueWall.Slade ok, thanks justine & all - see you later
[2014/09/09 13:13]  Aine.Caoimhe okies....have a great week then all
[2014/09/09 13:14]  Nebadon.Izumi falls off chair into Benedryl Coma
[2014/09/09 13:14]  Seth.Nygard Have a great day/week everyone, take care
[2014/09/09 13:14]  Nebadon.Izumi ok my bots are gone
[2014/09/09 13:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: jus tto let you know, Neb, this stuff currently requires setting a debug thing dynamically
[2014/09/09 13:14]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: and is only in ghosts build, so the code to control login load won't be active on a normal startup at this point
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, on a startup full stop, until the switch is flipped
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Nebadon.Izumi alright, that sounds wise
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: I was also running update on timer again today which I believe helps with frame time stability
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I think I might have a bug with switching that back and forth dynamically too much, which might have cuased some of the issues last week too
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: with the permanently elevated ft
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Dahlia.Trimble is Offline
[2014/09/09 13:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: again, that's asetting that is not active by default and has to be dynamically swiched
[2014/09/09 13:16]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 13:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: I might be away most of tomorrow, I need a bit of a rest
[2014/09/09 13:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm encouraged by things being better this week, though need to keep repeating similar tests - one better one is nowhere near enough
[2014/09/09 13:16]  Marcus.Llewellyn smiles and waves. :)
[2014/09/09 13:16]  Dahlia.Trimble is Online
[2014/09/09 13:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye macrus
[2014/09/09 13:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok that's it, all out :)
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Nebadon.Izumi ok
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Nebadon.Izumi thanks Justin
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Nebadon.Izumi talk soon
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks neb, hope you have a good benedryl coma :)
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Nebadon.Izumi haha will do
[2014/09/09 13:18]  Nebadon.Izumi whispers: :P
[2014/09/09 13:19]  Nebadon.Izumi heh
[2014/09/09 13:19]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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