Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-22

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[10:58]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:58]  Connected
[10:59]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..
[10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[10:59]  Mata Hari waves
[10:59]  BlueWall Slade: Hi
[10:59]  TBG.Renfold hi
[10:59]  Brochim Arks: hI PEOPLES
[10:59]  Brochim Arks: arf caps lock ... sry
[11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: hello vbrochim
[11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: hi neb
[11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: hio mata
[11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:00]  Mata Hari: hi Rich
[11:01]  Mata Hari: was Wright down a few minutes ago?
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't think so
[11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: the lkast 10 it where up
[11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: so dont know
[11:01]  Mata Hari: hm....wonder why tp from my region failed/timed out then
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ive been busy logging my radegast viewers into Keynote 1
[11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: can radegast not write a small script for auto login bots :)
[11:02]  Brochim Arks: It's been up quite awhile i been pakrek here for a bit while in blender
[11:03]  Brochim Arks: *parked here
[11:03]  Brochim Arks: thats about the last hour or so
[11:03]  Mata Hari: tp attempt was only 10 min ago
[11:03]  Brochim Arks: it has ben alittle laggy thou
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: is that a 3d model of a 3d printer, neb? :)
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: and an oculus rift, eh?
[11:05]  Mata Hari: and of course failed tp is death for me....forces a relog
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I do think it would be amusing if people wearing a rift also wore one in-world
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: its the meta-metaverse
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: you can wear it
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: cool!
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: also an interesting test of my hypergrid sim
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a laptop and case for it too
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: I finally got my loopbak router set up which was the prereq to run an hg grid at home
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: so I can experience the bugs and get motivated to fix them ;)
[11:07]  Brochim Arks: arf I've junked so many routers cause of loopback
[11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: not that I'm not, but suffering personal pain always helps
[11:07]  Shez.Oyen can have mine
[11:07]  Mata Hari: mine too
[11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: I am really glad Oren fixed the HG attachment issue
[11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: so far its been great since then
[11:08]  Shez.Oyen Hooray!!!
[11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, now we have the co-op script attachment issue
[11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: not sure if my netgear have loopback or not. but it seems to work fine with opensim
[11:08]  Mata Hari: haven't tested it thoroughly yet
[11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: you haven't seen any problems along those lines?
[11:08]  Brochim Arks: My new experiment will be multi router porting so i dont always have to use wifi
[11:08]  Mata Hari: but going to the CC will be a very good test
[11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: Oh, thats good news nebadon. then i need to upgrade my stable to dev version soon
[11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: its been perfect for me since his fix
[11:09]  Shez.Oyen And Robert fixed the var/squatter prob.. it's been a great week so far!
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: things may fail on cc for other reasons
[11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: aha, betetr wait a bit lonbger
[11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: and I could recrete the problem every time before
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[11:09]  Mata Hari: now just need to be able to actually login reliably
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: don't you mean download inventory?
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey suspects not
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any other opensim issues today?
[11:11]  Billy.Bradshaw You may need a flag for Scotland here
[11:11]  Mata Hari: inventory fetch still badly borked for many people, unfortunately....wasted most of Sunday evening trying to help someone who couldn't even get it to finish on a plaza
[11:11]  Shez.Oyen I'm all good :)
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I know, I do hope to look at it sometime soon
[11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: its to hot to play with opensim :O
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: I do see you and austin writing lots on the mantis report
[11:11]  Mata Hari: kk...wasn't sure if you'd seen those
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I just haven't had time to look yet
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: ironically, the more text it is the more time I need to have to read it :)
[11:12]  Mata Hari: at least we found that she can log in, tps to Metro and waits for it to finish there, then tps back
[11:12]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.1 Dev          36920ad: 2014-07-21 23:58:30 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: aha. i think i know about who you talk mata
[11:12]  Mata Hari: LadyJo
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: so you don't have any issues with scripts in attachments atm?
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey suspects if anybody is going to hit a problem it's going to be mata :)
[11:13]  Mata Hari: no
[11:13]  Mata Hari: and I have lots
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: and you've been running in co-op script mode for a long time, which is interesting
[11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: Wait until i start todo more with opensim :O
[11:14]  Pathfinder's Hypergrid Adventurer Hat v2.1: This Region's Global Hypergrid Coordinates: <10000,10000>
[11:14]  Pathfinder's Hypergrid Adventurer Hat v2.1: Your Coordinates within this Region: <142,149,32>
[11:14]  Mata Hari: been doing it since OSG changed over to that as a default strategy
[11:14]  Mata Hari: which I think was at least 3-4 months ago wasn't it?
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: you mean on some of the plazas? It wasn't default in the standard .ini download scripts
[11:14]  Mata Hari: oh....hmmm
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: as far as I could see
[11:15]  Mata Hari: well I know I've been running it for at least 2.5 months since that's the date of the last change I made to my Opensim.ini
[11:15]  Mata Hari: but think it might be longer\
[11:16]  Mata Hari: and it has no trouble compiling all my stuff each time I do a new build
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it probably is bette rto claer the script cache when chainging strategy
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I feel that';s too much to ask ppl to do when it comes to release, so I've tried an auto route
[11:17]  Billy.Bradshaw I see the inventory items download slow on our osg region. Need around 1k items for it to be really noticeable, and viewer cache cleared
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully if there are bugs they can be resolved
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I do think there should be some kind of inventoy size limit by default......
[11:17]  Mata Hari: I rename my current folder to "opensim old" anf then build fresh in a new folder
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: is it really fair to expect to have any size inventory?
[11:17]  Mata Hari: so everything is done fresh each time
[11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: the wierd thing is
[11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a fairly large inventory and i rarely if never experience problems
[11:18]  Shez.Oyen I bet Neb's inventory has about a jillion items
[11:18]  Mata Hari: fetch issues are reproducable on tiny inventories
[11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: 50k itens
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I assume you're almost always logging into core osgrid regions?
[11:18]  Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, we know you live inside the server almost :)
[11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: not always
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, random voices from the ether
[11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: infact i usuallylog into my home regions
[11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: My experience, it seems distance to grid serve rmakes a difference
[11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: not sure how far mata is away from it
[11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably some inventory flow control issue
[11:19]  Mata Hari: pretty close......58ms ping typically
[11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think second life does some complex thing with sending 302s in certain circumstances
[11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: but as we've discussed before, finding out exactly what's expected and properly emulating it isn't a 5 min change
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: but hopefully it will come to the top of my todo list soon
[11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: we are having a meeting here right now guys
[11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: bah, I told you this place should be further from the landing point :)
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: or in its own voice parcel....
[11:20]  Billy.Bradshaw Seems as though the viewer does not specifically load an avatars outfit first, but waits until those items arrive in the generaal download
[11:20]  BlueWall Slade: We're peaceful :)
[11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: its nice to see people exploring though
[11:20]  Mata Hari: separate meeting region....a 2048x2048 var!
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need to change the text on the wiki registration
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think 99% of the requests think it's to get a login for some meta opensim grid
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: need to redirect them to grid lists
[11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: Oh, is there a way or option to fix wrong uri in oar files and later on the regions. still get a few errors. slash wrong direction. otherwise i need todo it again the mysql way
[11:22]  Mata Hari: really, other than that things have been running silky smooth in my regions
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: hypergrid style urls? for creators?
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: 'urls'
[11:23]  Mata Hari: oh....except maybe for one thing.....
[11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: yes, the one syou could save manual with -- in th oar
[11:23]  Mata Hari: the length of time it takes to clear a logout from a region if they have extensive friends list with old/offline URLs
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: there's no way atm excpet veru ,amia;;u
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: very manually
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: you can tell from the log that it takes a long time?
[11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: ok. thats how i have fixt it before to. missed a few maby
[11:24]  Mata Hari: yes
[11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: i guess, if you fix it in your mysql it get saved correct in next oar ?
[11:24]  Mata Hari: when I log out from my own region it takes about 60 seconds before those messages stop
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: but logout has finished before then>?
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, the viewer actually closes
[11:25]  Mata Hari: yes
[11:25]  Mata Hari: mlong before
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, the delay will be because remote regions are not responding
[11:25]  Mata Hari: I can log back into a plaza before my sim is finish processing them, is the issue
[11:25]  Mata Hari: then things get screwed up
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: what if you were prevented from logging back in until cleanup had completed?
[11:25]  Billy.Bradshaw I have noticed for some time that when you arrive at a hypergrid destination, the region name display on the viewer bar does not update to the new region until you take a few steps, looking at data, those steps generate ParcelProperties message
[11:26]  Mata Hari: so I have to log out, then watch my console until the region stops sending the logout notifiers
[11:26]  Mata Hari: it won't prevent me from relogging but any offline message that my region sends after I have logged back into a plaza will incorrectly tell that friend that I'm offline
[11:26]  Andrew Hellershanks waves hello
[11:27]  Mata Hari: and if I initiate IM session it will show the offline "saved" message stuff
[11:27]  Mata Hari: etc
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: well, the solutions are either to stop you logging back in until that has completed, or reduce the timeouts on sending notices, which still won't help if you have a lot of friends
[11:27]  Shez.Oyen Hi Andrew :)
[11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: Justin, thats what LL doing automatic. block login until your logged out
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: or reroute everything in a better way ,possibly through a service rather than direct fan out to regions
[11:27]  Mata Hari: do they have to be done sequentially?
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: maybe not, though trade off is then using many more threads
[11:27]  Mata Hari: ah
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: which for a region with lots of people becomes more problematic
[11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: or possibly, when you log back in the sending of notivces from the logout is aborted
[11:28]  Mata Hari: I can see it being an issue for some people though...particularly ones who aren't aware of it
[11:28]  Mata Hari: or people with enormous friends lists
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think one of our problems is that nobody has the sense to impose limits
[11:29]  Mata Hari: could it do a pre-sort at least to send out all local grid logouts first? then do HG friends after that
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: on many systems these things have limits to stop yuou running into problems
[11:29]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:29]  Shez.Oyen Hi Dahlia :)
[11:29]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I suspect there is room for improvement there
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:30]  Mata Hari: it would help
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: though it doesn't really fix the problem... One solution might be the abort
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: true
[11:30]  Mata Hari: because half the time HG friends notifications are borked anyway
[11:30]  Mata Hari: so it's only the local grid ones that are really "important"
[11:30]  Mata Hari: plus they'd process rapidly
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: true
[11:31]  Mata Hari: just a thought, anyway
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: actually, reading thre code, this is already done
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: local friends are notified first on logout
[11:32]  stiofain nbmcmedia: hi folks
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi stiofain
[11:33]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:33]  Mata Hari: kk
[11:33]  Billy.Bradshaw An OSGgrid avi offered me friendship, which I declined due to the potential issues. Problem is OSGrid does not register the decline, so everytime I vist it displays the friends offer
[11:33]  BlueWall Slade: Hello
[11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia, andrew, sriofan. now chat is a biot quite
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there is some problem there
[11:33]  Mata Hari: lol
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: I get bugged about friends notices I've already responded to, at least with my osgrid av
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if it is a problem with not registering decline then
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: though I seem to remember it happening to me on accept
[11:34]  Dahlia Trimble: "potential issues" lol
[11:34]  Mata Hari: or another fun one is make friends with someone from your own grid while you're both HGed somewhere else....the every time either of you logs in to your home grid you get asked to confirm the friendshop again :p
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's like renewing your vows
[11:35]  Mata Hari: :p
[11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: och mata, thats tricky one
[11:35]  Mata Hari: yeah
[11:35]  Billy.Bradshaw If a foreign avi accepts, then the offer is repeated when arrive on the home grid, accepting there seems to set up the friendship correctly
[11:36]  Mata Hari: only way I could stop it was to cancel the friendship and delete the notecards from my inventory
[11:36]  Dahlia Trimble: notecards?
[11:36]  Billy.Bradshaw I will try that Mata
[11:36]  Billy.Bradshaw Callcards?
[11:36]  Mata Hari: not notecards, sorry....the callingcards
[11:37]  Mata Hari: and HG friends don't always ask you to confirm when you get home if the session ID has changed
[11:37]  Mata Hari: at which point your home grid has a corrupt entry in the table that has to be manually deleted
[11:38]  Mata Hari: that was broken sometime in March 2013 (and no, 2013 isn't a typo)
[11:39]  Billy.Bradshaw Dahlia, I see you as a cloud, is it just me?
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia is a cloud for me too
[11:39]  Shez.Oyen Dahlia and Dev Radom are clouds to me
[11:40]  Mata Hari: maybe it's a new dev outfit?
[11:40]  Shez.Oyen Random*
[11:41]  Billy.Bradshaw Is there some kind of etiquette as not to tell a visitor they are a cloud or their hair is missing. Seems as though this can delay things like the attachment issue from being resolved?
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm pretty sure there's no etiquette
[11:42]  BlueWall Slade: might just aske them to "rebake"
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: at least they're not naked
[11:42]  Billy.Bradshaw Dahlia, please rebake
[11:43]  Mata Hari: interestingly they both show as "away loading...." not just "away"
[11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: I just about have all my Radegast viewers logged into OSCC grid
[11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: 10 more to go
[11:45]  BlueWall Slade: how many?
[11:45]  Dev Random was away getting loaded. will rebake now
[11:45]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dev
[11:46]  Dev Random: howdy all
[11:46]  Mata Hari: now you've rezzed
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey attempted a force rebake from the console
[11:46]  Mata Hari: except for textures
[11:46]  Dev Random: interesting... I didn't rebake.
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: since strangely your baked appearance was reported as ok with no baked textures set...
[11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: did I rebake?
[11:46]  Shez.Oyen I seee them both now
[11:46]  Shez.Oyen Yes Dahlia
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey didn't attempt to rebake Dahlia
[11:46]  Mata Hari: yes, I can see Dahlia now too
[11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: I havent hooked up xbakes on my home region yet *blush*
[11:48]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have a few questions about varregions when we are on to "other topics".
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: pls go ahgead andrew
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think we long passed that point :)
[11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I had to go out after lunch so I missed the first half of todays meeting.
[11:50]  Andrew Hellershanks: Are there any known limitations or problems with vars? I'm thinking mainly with respect to prims or scripts.
[11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing major I can think of
[11:50]  Shez.Oyen I'm not having any probs with my vars now that the squatter issue is fixed.
[11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: far more capable than mega regions
[11:50]  Shez.Oyen I'm lovin' 'em
[11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: I'd think some scripts may be written to assume a 256x256 region
[11:51]  Andrew Hellershanks: Typical region limit can be 45k but how does prim limit get set for vars? Do we have to up the number based on the number of regions for which it is the equivalent?
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I think most scripts have already been fixed
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: for mega regions
[11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: you don' t have to...
[11:51]  Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I could see that as an issue. Mainly affecting some relative TP scripts.
[11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: I didnt think we had a limit
[11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: more objects means more load on the system, which might be a bit worse on a var region then when things are split up between different regions
[11:51]  Shez.Oyen I have 768's I don't know if much bigger is practical.. rezzing wise.
[11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: the limit is *when it crashes*
[11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, :)
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: and then people report those crashes as bugs....
[11:52]  Mata Hari: lol
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: ive not experience anything like that
[11:52]  Mata Hari: actually wouldn't it be (when it crashes -1)?
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: you can put just as much stuff in a single region
[11:52]  Shez.Oyen Mata.. heh!
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: i could put 1 script that crashes a region
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: right, but not 4x more
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: so
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: its all relative
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: ive had a million mesh cubes in a 256msq region
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: well having said that, I don't know what limit you would hit
[11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: I dont think theres any sending priority or interest management so if a large var region has a *lot* of prims it may take a while for everything to download and you probably wont see whats close to you for a while
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that kind of thing
[11:53]  Shez.Oyen nods
[11:53]  Mata Hari: more a case of practicality than anything else
[11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: yeah, would be betetr to see first in front of you
[11:54]  Mata Hari: then get 10 people to tp to the region more or less simultaneously
[11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: I run with the prim limits module enabled. Just curious to see how the maximum number of prims will be reported and if it would default to same limit as for a single region.
[11:54]  Billy.Bradshaw Can generate empirical data by removing items from a busy region until things work as expected.
[11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I wonder if voice chat could be set to allow a person to be heard across an entire var
[11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: or even typed chat.
[11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect so, thought the Vivox 'api' is entirely undocumented
[11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: text is much easier, just change the configured distance settings
[11:56]  BlueWall Slade: I have some Vivox documentation
[11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh rly???
[11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: not under nda?
[11:57]  BlueWall Slade: I found it on LL servers :)
[11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: got a link?
[11:57]  Dahlia Trimble: some games have a "map chat" where chat goes thru the entire "region"
[11:57]  BlueWall Slade: I will need to locate it
[11:57]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..
[11:57]  BlueWall Slade: I'lll ping you when I find it
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: for those who are attending the load test its > Keynote 1
[11:58]  Mata Hari: good news....I can already see attachments on some HGers to the CC region
[11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks Bluewall
[11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: k, ty nebadon. I can join in this time.
[11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: is it ?
[11:58]  Mata Hari: guess I'll tp over there now
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ok lets hop over to test
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: though that looks like the viewer <-> slvoice.exe interface which is sniffable
[11:59]  BlueWall Slade: I have a pdf file
[11:59]  Pathfinder.Lester sounds good
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: we can continue discussions there
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh ok, cool
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright :)
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: See you over there
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