Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-15

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[11:01]  Bubbles Journey: we get together all the time
[11:01]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: prob the annnouncement one of the SL people made
[11:01]  Bubbles Journey: and have partys !!
[11:01]  Bubbles Journey: keep your eyes peeled
[11:01]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:01]  Hippo Finesmith: damn lag sorry folks
[11:01]  Connected
[11:01]  Mata Hari: hi Hippo...Justin
[11:01]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: Hippo :)
[11:01]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: Hiya Justin
[11:02]  Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:02]  Hippo Finesmith: i thought it was about time I attended one of these meetings lol
[11:02]  Bubbles Journey: hi justin
[11:02]  Bubbles Journey: mic is open
[11:02]  Mata Hari: you mic is open Justin
[11:02]  Hippo Finesmith: hiya Justin
[11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:03]  Bubbles Journey: me too hippo :)
[11:03]  Nebadon Izumi is Online
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, mic closed finally
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
[11:04]  Bubbles Journey: smiles
[11:04]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..
[11:04]  Bubbles Journey: Hi Neb
[11:04]  Hippo Finesmith: hiya Neb
[11:04]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: Hey Neb :)
[11:04]  Mata Hari: saw something odd last night....Bubbles was trying to tp to a sim were were having a party on and the tp failed for her but we saw her nametag and cloud.....and it stayed there for the rest of the night......meanwhile she was IMing me trying to have me send her a tp but she was unable to see my replies to her
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: did you try relog?
[11:05]  Mata Hari: on top of that....group IM in that region was only showing text typed by other group members currently in that region
[11:05]  Bubbles Journey: yes many times
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I mean mata
[11:05]  Bubbles Journey: from different place
[11:05]  Mata Hari: me? no
[11:05]  Bubbles Journey: home sim and Lbsa
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone
[11:05]  Mata Hari: but there were a dozen of us there and we all saw her
[11:05]  Bubbles Journey: i could travel no where .
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: if a user connection fails it will get kicked after 60 secs.
[11:05]  Hippo Finesmith: if anyone has time later i would ike to pick someones brains on connecting a libomv bot to group chat :)
[11:05]  Mata Hari: and any other new arrivals to the sim also saw her cloud
[11:06]  Mata Hari: yes, it *should* get kicked but it never did
[11:06]  Alicia Raven: hi :)
[11:06]  Bubbles Journey: i was fine as long as i stayed in Lbsa
[11:06]  Mata Hari: her cloud was still there 4 hours later for all of us
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: would need more data from the server commands
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: what version of opensim?
[11:06]  Mata Hari: it's one of the ones Bob Solo hosts so it would be very recent build
[11:06]  Bubbles Journey: and i wasnt evenlogged in by the way
[11:07]  Mata Hari: he's usually pretty thorough in updating rapidly
[11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't seen taht kind of thing for a long time except for some older versions of opensim
[11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: would need to know exact ver info
[11:07]  Mata Hari: it's definitely 0.8x
[11:07]  Mata Hari: k
[11:07]  Mata Hari: I'll find out and post a Mantis
[11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: i lost for some reason in IAR transfers permissions on my scripts inside object. always need to play god
[11:07]  Mata Hari: and maybe see if he has anything useful in his logs
[11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: the logs mayu provide a clue in this case as to why the user did not get kicked
[11:08]  Bubbles Journey: and i missed the party . sighs
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: did he try any correction manually, like kicking her from the console?
[11:09]  Cuteulala Artis is Offline
[11:09]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I might have tried making an alt in that case Bubbles.
[11:09]  Mata Hari: he wasn't online at the time
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes, I feel this kind of thing needs looking into, though I thinik it's a longstanding bug
[11:09]  Mata Hari: it's just the party was in one of the sims he hosts
[11:09]  Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: Bubbles: so what did you see when t
[11:10]  Mata Hari: the strange thing is doesn't the sim do an agent check every 60 seconds?
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: you tried to tp in?
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yes, if no data is recieved from a connection int hat time then it gets shutdown
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: so an avatar remaining permanently with no connection would be extremely odd
[11:10]  Mata Hari: so how could it not do that for 4 hours when she's offline?
[11:11]  Mata Hari: yeah
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: unless the viewers never got the signal it left maybe?
[11:11]  Hippo Finesmith: yes i was glad of that when trying to repro a crash in a viewer consistently
[11:11]  Mata Hari: maybe something got stuck in some sort of infinite loop?
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: it's impossible, so you must all be lying ;)
[11:11]  Mata Hari: lol
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:11]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: heh
[11:11]  Mata Hari: th other thing that brought up though is something that's happened to me
[11:12]  Hippo Finesmith: All hail the ALIGHTY Justin Clarke Casey
[11:12]  Hippo Finesmith: :P
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh. Well you know, this stuff is tough
[11:12]  Mata Hari: if you crash on tp and then relog right away to a different region, you can complete your login before the region you were trying to tp to thinks you've dropped connection
[11:12]  Mata Hari: and then it goes through the logout stuff
[11:12]  Hippo Finesmith: surely you would need to be reasonably quick to do that?
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: intersting, I didn't think that window was still open
[11:12]  Mata Hari: so in that instance you are then "logged out" as far as everyone else in grid can see until you actually log our and back in again
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: and the client is logged out, right?
[11:13]  Mata Hari: it seems to be....I've done it a few times
[11:13]  Mata Hari: well....case is this
[11:13]  Mata Hari: I tp to a region and tp fails, I crash out of the client
[11:13]  Bubbles Journey: and i have been a cloud way more than ever this week too
[11:13]  Mata Hari: I immediately relog to a plaza because if I don't my inventory fetch will hang
[11:14]  Bubbles Journey: yes had that hang yesterdaytoo
[11:14]  Mata Hari: then I watch what my sim console as it logs me out (since it was the region I was trying to tp to)
[11:14]  Mata Hari: so even though I'm standing in LBSA my own region doesn't know that and kicks me for latency
[11:15]  Mata Hari: and thereafter I'm offline as far as my friends thing
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: right, but so what? You're no longer there
[11:15]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I've had that happen.. thought it was a var thing
[11:15]  Mata Hari: *think
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhh
[11:15]  Mata Hari: I can tp and stand beside you
[11:15]  Mata Hari: and anything I say to you in IM will say "message saved"
[11:15]  Hippo Finesmith: Btw nebadon that profiles crash i was experiencing was in the end a viewer bug in Singularity and recent derivatives which has been fixed in thier yet to be released next alpha
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, that's interesting. May not be easy to fix either
[11:16]  Mata Hari: and if you were on my friends list you'd think I'm not online
[11:16]  Mata Hari: and I think if a group message gets sent I don't receive it
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: anything that checkes online user status would fail
[11:16]  Robert Adams: would need date and session codes to keep track of switched sessions at the grid service
[11:16]  Mata Hari: yep
[11:16]  Chazznoon Greenwood: Greetings
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: but that may not help if logout signal comes after tp
[11:17]  Robert Adams: if the logout came from somewhere else than the last login
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: though I guess if you assume all regions notifying of mvmt in a timely manner, then could compare logout signal region from current region and ignore if they dont' match
[11:17]  Mata Hari: when the region thinks I've timed out and does the logout, it sends a message to ROBUSt to say I'm offline?
[11:17]  Robert Adams thinks of griefing ideas
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yes
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: so yeah, we should be able to rely on the current region for a user being correct and ignore the logout if it doesn't come from that region
[11:18]  Chazznoon Greenwood: dont shoot
[11:18]  Samuel Greenway: hi there
[11:18]  Chazznoon Greenwood: Hello Samuel
[11:18]  Mata Hari: yes...but does ROBUST know that I'm in the new region? Does the inbound stuff say "Mata is now here" to Robust?
[11:18]  Bubbles Journey: hi
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: it does
[11:18]  Mata Hari: kk
[11:19]  Mata Hari: so if that's timestamped then any older message about latent logout should be ignored
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah crap
[11:20]  Dahlia Trimble is Online
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: we don't currently know the source of logout agent message so that would not be easy to do without adding more info to the existing mssg
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is still something that may need to be done but doesn't make this a 5 min change
[11:21]  Mata Hari: /ME NODS
[11:21]  Mata Hari: woops...sorry about the caps
[11:21]  Mata Hari: and another fun one for you.....
[11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh man :)
[11:22]  Mata Hari: if you're HG friends with someone and one of the 2 grids changes url.....things get really, really messy
[11:22]  Robert Adams: go Mata go!
[11:22]  Mata Hari: of if you change your grid from jcc.noip.com to jcc.newip.biz things go a little haywire
[11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: hi robert
[11:23]  Robert Adams: hi RIchardus
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: that sounds like one for diva
[11:23]  Mata Hari: because of the way HG friendships are handled
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: have to tackle that attachments issue first though
[11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: im not sure there is anyway around that
[11:23]  Mata Hari: yes please
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: and the inventory one, etc.
[11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: HG friendships and online stats are still a bit wonky
[11:23]  Mata Hari: and fetch too please
[11:23]  Bubbles Journey: omg what hg friendships ?
[11:23]  Bubbles Journey: mine never show
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: I really don't see how we can resolve the HG friends if domain changes easily
[11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: mine show, only chatting not always seems to work in soem direction
[11:24]  Robert Adams: I do keep seeing simulator log messages about not being able to contact some server... related to HG friends
[11:24]  Bubbles Journey: if i come here from our grid i get no info
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: you run in hg mode?
[11:24]  Mata Hari: maybe leave it as is and make it a special Opensim "feature"....broken friendships stops your friends from pestering you
[11:25]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: depending on the nature of the problem, this might just be like broken links on the internet
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem is that data is not stored on your grid
[11:25]  Bubbles Journey: haha matalol
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: its stored on other peoples grids
[11:25]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: Dahlia :)
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: the cost of trying to have a solution might be just far too high
[11:25]  Alicia Raven: hi dahlia
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: so if you change your domain there is technically nothing we can do to resolve that really
[11:25]  Robert Adams: I have some sims connected to OSGrid that are.... I have like 5 HG friends and most of them don't have servers to connect to
[11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: it seems i can chat with someone on osgrid. but the other direction seems to fail. osgrid to my own one
[11:25]  Mata Hari: the interesting thing is it ties up the region server a bit at logout
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: heh, that's where there's a role for a centralized connecting server ;)
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: Richardus i just tested
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: and it works ok here
[11:26]  Mata Hari: becuase it seems to process notifying your friends of your online/offline status sequentuially
[11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: getting 2 way chat with HG to and from osgrid
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: urgh yeah, maybe the request is done on the same thread as logout code
[11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: its not always nebadon. not figured out why, but thats told to me
[11:27]  Mata Hari: and on top of that, any time someone on your region opens their friends list it also seems to make a check of some sort that hits the same snag
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a lot of things that can go wrong with HG teleporting
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: its pretty bad
[11:27]  Mata Hari: so it's waiting for a 501 type error before it resumes
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: its gotten a lot better recently
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: but you are very likely to teleport to older code
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I expect in this case just a timeout
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: and run into many problems
[11:28]  Mata Hari: that isn't even a tp....that's just having someone in your friends list who is from a grid that is either offline or has changed IP
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: even the latest code has problems its far from perfect
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: i just don't see how that can be fixed
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: your talking about completley rewriting HG
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: if someone changes their website domain
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: you cant expect email to continue working
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: its the same problem
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: not fixable
[11:29]  Mata Hari: right....but if they do that they can send out an email that says "update your mailing list"
[11:29]  Mata Hari: but in Opensim there's nothing like that
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: yea send new freind request
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: short of that i just don't know
[11:30]  Alicia Raven: if they meet on the same region, cant the region check the data matches?
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: the domain name is part of the uiud
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: uuid*
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think the notifiaction would be out of band, like a friend telling you their new e-mail address or phone number...
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: or are we talking about something larger?
[11:30]  Mata Hari: no, because interestingly if you're both currently tp to the same grid they'll still be "friends" and you'll show as being online to one another
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: that may only be because of cache
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: that may not be true forever
[11:31]  Mata Hari: ah...yeah, hadn't thought of that
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: infact im sure it wouldnt be
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: we would need to test that
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, we know there are these hg issues all around
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:32]  Mata Hari: anyway, that's the fun newish stuff I've stumbled over this week
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm hoping soon to get time now to set up my own hg - I reconnected my router that does loopback
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: anything positive you can say to cheer us all up? :)
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:32]  Mata Hari hands Justin a glass of wine
[11:32]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: My comments concern varregions.. If a person uses the north east coordinate of your var region to put their new regular region it trumps your var and gives that corner to the interloper (even tho your var was up and running) rendering the whole var unreachable, you can however tp to the unwary squatters region and see it's name on the map, etc.
[11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: Bad idea mata, give more bugs. :)
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:33]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: One reason this happens is the Grid map on the website shows varregions as one regular 256 region instead of it's real 768, 1024 etc size. We need the grid map fixed to avoid the conflict but more important than that we need to prevent people from setting up on coordinates that are already in use.
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: interesting, I thought var regions fully reserved the space
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: We need to think about how to resolve that problem for sure
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: no its not
[11:33]  Cuteulala Artis is Offline
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: one for robert perhaps ;)
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: I think Robert has maybe thought about that a bit?
[11:33]  Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: pretty sure he knows about it
[11:34]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: That is my only prob with vars.. I really like thema lot!
[11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: wjhere anyway suprissed that you see small maptiles instead of big one.
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, just these bugs to wrinkle out, lots of moving parts in this system, bu tthey are really cool
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: kind of cool
[11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: cannot live without far. and the small prblems get out wityh big iron
[11:35]  Robert Adams: what is the mechanism for region reservation?
[11:35]  Mata Hari: being up
[11:35]  Mata Hari: :p
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: generally robust will look up the coordinates if someonthing in the db lives at those coordiantes it will say this spot is already taken
[11:35]  Cuteulala Artis is Offline
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: GridService.RegisterRegion()
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately vars only resrver the SW regions coordinates
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: this is called by thesimulator for each region on restart, and deregister on shutdown
[11:36]  Robert Adams: varregions don't do anything about being in the area it covers other than hacks to make maps work
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:36]  Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: but some VERY NAUGHTY PEOPLE get around dereg by killing their simuoators instead of lceanly shutting them down
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: we need to figure out how to tell robust something lives there
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: dont allow regions to overlap
[11:36]  Robert Adams: one can't register multiple regions with the same UUID
[11:36]  Robert Adams: the only solution is creating a bunch of pseudo-regions and registering those
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: thats what megaregions do
[11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: the circle is complete
[11:37]  Mata Hari: store a flag on preper shutdown and then when starting up check the flag....if it isn't set reformat their C drive
[11:37]  Mata Hari: that will solve the problem
[11:37]  Robert Adams: mega-regions ARE multiple regions
[11:37]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: lol Mata
[11:37]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: remind me not to cross you
[11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but creating psudo regions causes map problems now
[11:37]  Mata Hari: :p
[11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: because the viewer will get confused
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: looking at the code, the underlying db still searches on one location
[11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: there would need to be some way to hide the psudeos from the viewer
[11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: and only be availble to regions
[11:38]  Robert Adams: and would need logic in the grid service to redirect a TPer to the base region if one TPs to a pseudo-region
[11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: you mean no direct teleports?
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it could work if it was changed to look for regions that covered that location using the size args
[11:39]  Robert Adams: I had considered an invisible 'hold' region... but that's new DB entries and logic scattered here and there
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: oh i see what you mean
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: the viewer is very picky with teleporting
[11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: store it in riobust database with flag, but dont sent thge data to viewer is the flag is set ?
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: any kind of delays can be problematic with timing
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: teleporting like that in megas never worked well
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think one needs invlisible hold regions to solve this
[11:40]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: no
[11:40]  Robert Adams: something like that, Richardus
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: passing it from the subs to main
[11:40]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I gave up on megas
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: unless you are now just talking about megas
[11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: mega's bleh
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: no vars
[11:40]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I hate the thought of going back to 256 :/
[11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: we only talk about vars
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem is if you have a 512x512 var
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: someone can put a region inside of your var
[11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: say your at 1000,1000
[11:41]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: right
[11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: someone can put a 256 region at 1001,1000
[11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, and I think that might be fixable by changing DB.Get(int posx, int posy) to search for regions that coverthat space based on their size co-ords
[11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: and totally kill your var, you cant even log in anymore
[11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: but they can log into theirs
[11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: apparantly
[11:41]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: It also has to determine if another region occupies the extended area
[11:42]  Aaron Duffy is Online
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, hippo, you want to talk about the question you had at the start?
[11:43]  Robert Adams: EntityTransferModule now has a routine to find a region the occupies a global coordinate -- it searches around for a varregion that covers that point
[11:43]  Hippo Finesmith: i want to make an irc - opensim group chat bot
[11:43]  Hippo Finesmith: however im not sure how to do the part that connects to the group chat
[11:43]  Robert Adams: could move that code to be used in the grid service when registering regions... obviously the existing code only looks for an exact match
[11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that sounds good Robert
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes, I think it would be better for the gridservice to take care fo the problen
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: ya messing with teleporting is big jar of trouble
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: hippo: group chat comes in as IM messages to libomv
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Hippo I am not sure how to do that, you might check with Lkalif or some of the singularity devs
[11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: I think they do that
[11:45]  Robert Adams: Shez, ok.. I'll look into fixing that
[11:45]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I love you Robert
[11:45]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.1 Dev          2766bf3: 2014-07-11 00:18:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:45]  Hippo Finesmith: yes i have tried thier code from github and it works fine on SL but doesnt connect to group chat in opensim
[11:45]  Robert Adams: if youc could file a Mantis entry that will make sure it doesn't get forgotten
[11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: oh
[11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: hippo: that's odd, because the mechanism should be identical
[11:45]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: ok (making a sticky note)
[11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: it has to be in order to work with the viewer
[11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure either
[11:46]  Hippo Finesmith: its a libomv bot with a c# irc client
[11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: could be a problem with libomv
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I expec tsome small variation in how opensim does it is causing failure
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I wouldn't know what that is
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: a variation that doesn't upset viewers
[11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe pipe it through wingridproxy
[11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: and see if there is some kind of error
[11:47]  Hippo Finesmith: and the bug with classifieds i was chassing the other day neb actually turned out to be a viewer bug
[11:47]  Hippo Finesmith: which has been fixed
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: those are the ones I like ;)
[11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ah great
[11:48]  Hippo Finesmith: it will be in next singu alpha
[11:48]  Kayaker.Magic @hg.osgrid.org: Justin, thanks for the recent attention to the XEngine. Does your ScriptStopStrategy change address the llSleep() issues? (locking up script threads)
[11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: think not
[11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: unfortunately not, it just makes finally halting them safer
[11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: that's another issue that isin the back of my mind but a pretty complex one - unfortunately stuff like load testing, hg attachments and inventory stalling are queued in front
[11:50]  Kayaker.Magic @hg.osgrid.org: Is there a way for llSleep to check the lenght of time, and release the tread like a timer, then only lock the thread for the remainder?
[11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: so remind me the exact issue. Is is that scripts with long sleeps manage to stop any other scripts receiving events?
[11:51]  Kayaker.Magic @hg.osgrid.org: llSleep() (and any function that has a delay) stops the thread the script is in.
If too many scripts do this, all the treads in the pool get locked up.
[11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, right
[11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, this is complex stuff because you can't yield the thread without a really major script engine redesign
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: yea ive experienced that myself
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: with my npc stuff
[11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps even a whole new approach
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: had to redo everything using llVolumeDetect
[11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: which ended up being just as bad as llSleep
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: if you sleep or wait in any way then the thread is still taken up
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: so now we us exeternal module to control npcs
[11:52]  Kayaker.Magic @hg.osgrid.org: I ran into a sim with 1000 blinking lights, each one llSleeping for the blink time.
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: but to release you need to shunt all current state somewhere else then pick it back up again at the end of the sleep
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: cause using xengine is bad
[11:52]  Mata Hari: oh wow
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmm
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: llVolumeDetect is a problem with BulletSim though
[11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: if i go back to ODE it works fine for months on end
[11:52]  Cuteulala Artis is Offline
[11:53]  Mata Hari: could some sort of osWait() function be written that doesn't tie up a thread?
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: there's a super hacky way which requires breaking up the compiled script c# into separate methods
[11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: bulletsim fails in just a few minutes
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: then in theory you could exit one and rem,ember to re-enter the rest at the end of the sleep
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: but then how do you carry over local vars? hhmm
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: you see, if scripts were interpreated ratehr than compiled to c# byte code then this could be done
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: you could stop at any point with your full context
[11:54]  Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that would be a huge change - really a different script engine
[11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I think realistically its going to end up being a new engine
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder how the lindens do it
[11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: as they are using mono
[11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: modifying xengine would slow down things a lot I suspect
[11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe there's a way I haven't thought of, maybe they've even hacked mono
[11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: in terms of testers and development I mean, it would break the engine for a while
[11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I woudl leave XEngine intact and start a whole new one
[11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: like physics, so there's still a reference impl that continues working
[11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: yes
[11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: but of course, that's a far from trivial job
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off for 5 mins for a nature break,. brb
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: I wonder how Aurora does it
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: because from what i hear the sleep issue is not a problem in aurora I think
[11:56]  Mata Hari: did they rewrite from scratch?
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: its very different
[11:57]  Kayaker.Magic @hg.osgrid.org: InWorldz also re-wrote the script engine
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: pretty sure they rewrote most of opensim
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: they forked off loong time ago
[11:57]  Robert Adams: Nebadon, could you create a Mantis describing the llVolumeDetect problem?
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: oh sure, i thought there were some already
[11:57]  Hippo Finesmith: ok guys RL is calling me , catch you all next time. Thank You :)
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: its the collision problem
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: that dans been talking to you about
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: let me see if i can find the mantis
[11:58]  Robert Adams: collisions stop happening?
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7132
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: basicallt llVolumeDetect just stops working
[11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: bye hippo
[11:58]  Robert Adams: llVolumeDetect is a different machanism but I'll look into it
[11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: back
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ok
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i assumed it was same problem
[11:59]  Mata Hari: wb
[11:59]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: yes.. my beaded curtain quits clacking after awhile.. have to restart
[12:00]  Mata Hari: also the angled foot problem still exists (terrain under a prim will still cause feet to angle oddly when standing on a prim above it)
[12:00]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: I've seen that too Mata
[12:00]  Robert Adams: there was a problem before with volume detect but hat was related to TPing in the same region
[12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check something here
[12:00]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..
[12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: load test today? is there a linkie?
[12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it's top of the hour - I see pepole logging into keynotes
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: yea door sensors are working here now
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ive gotten reports recently they stopped working
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: but thats the problem
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: llVolumeDetect basically just stops working randomly
[12:02]  Mata Hari: which region is load test in today?
[12:02]  Dahlia Trimble: that door script is flaky, always is intermittent
[12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: keynote 1 2 3 and 4
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: only time its usually a problem for me is when i have a bunch of npcs running around rapidly triggering the waypoints that use it
[12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: need to go. bye
[12:02]  Dahlia Trimble: have the same problem on some doors that use it on one of my regions
[12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, that didn';t work
[12:02]  Alicia Raven: neb, ur sitting on nothing, i saw people at the last load test floating round in a seated position aswell
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:02]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: no region found with that name
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: i think you pasted the entire chat log
[12:02]  Richardus Raymaker is Offline
[12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey spams everybody with the text of what they jsut said for the last hour
[12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, yep
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Keynote 1
[12:02]  Sarah Kline: rofl
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: was wondering if I could directly paste a landmark
[12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: HG to there
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: it turns out,. not
[12:03]  Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: see you folks there
[12:03]  Shez.Oyen @hg.osgrid.org: thanks Neb :)
[12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: kk see everyone there
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: and the bloody region consoles are still double spaced neb :)
[12:03]  Mata Hari: kk...see you all there
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think you copiedovermy config change
[12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'mgoing
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