Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-22

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[2014/04/22 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hola
[2014/04/22 11:02]  dan banner: hey neb
[2014/04/22 11:03]  Sarah Kline: hiyas all
[2014/04/22 11:03]  dan banner: hi sarah
[2014/04/22 11:03]  lillith.xue hey hey :-)
[2014/04/22 11:03]  Key Gruin: hey folks
[2014/04/22 11:03]  dan banner: hey key
[2014/04/22 11:04]  Sarah Kline: hi
[2014/04/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: hi all
[2014/04/22 11:05]  Dev Random: Justin has been shopping.
[2014/04/22 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I had to change out of my long johns finally
[2014/04/22 11:05]  Mata Hari: lol
[2014/04/22 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: haha
[2014/04/22 11:05]  dan banner: ya is that hair?
[2014/04/22 11:05]  dan banner: wth?!?
[2014/04/22 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[2014/04/22 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: man, ,my system is not happy today
[2014/04/22 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: cna't reboot though since I've got another convo on the side
[2014/04/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: so I am understanding a bit better what my mesh terrain issue is in Varregions
[2014/04/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: very strange bug
[2014/04/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a bunch of 768x768 varregion neighbors
[2014/04/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: and when i rez my terrain tiles which are also 768x768 consisting of 36 128x128m tiles in a linkset
[2014/04/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: the terrain pops up in the neighbor region when i rez it where i am standing, always to the north
[2014/04/22 11:08]  Sarah Kline: yikes
[2014/04/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: if I type "force update" on my console it shows up in the region I am in
[2014/04/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: but if I then relog its back in other region
[2014/04/22 11:09]  Fairy Constantine: is online.
[2014/04/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: if I select and erase it from the nieghbor region
[2014/04/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: and type force update again its back where it belongs
[2014/04/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: and now its ok on relog
[2014/04/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: this happens pretty much 100% of the time when there is a region to the north
[2014/04/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: very odd, it only seems to happen with these large linksets
[2014/04/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: never with smaller objects like buildings or prims
[2014/04/22 11:10]  posh prim: is offline.
[2014/04/22 11:10]  Sarah Kline: i have not tried linking my meshes
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: well thats how they are when i upload them
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Sarah Kline: i thing too big in any case
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Robert Adams: it does sound like there are some checks for children not being made
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: that was my guess
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: its wierd though
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: other people see it too
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          a893fd9: 2014-04-22 10:19:11 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: even if they are in different simulator
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Robert Adams: therare a lot of operations in OpenSim that first check to see if the requestor is a child... I must not be making such a test somewhere
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: and only when i erase the one in the niegbor sim and type force update, is it 100% back to normal
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: no matter how many times i restart the region or relog
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: if i dont erase that prim it always comes back next door and the one where its supposed to be is gone
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: so its like there is 2 copies
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its very odd
[2014/04/22 11:12]  Robert Adams: there could easily be different code paths for meshes or linksets or big things... the code is very special cased
[2014/04/22 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: not an easy environment to recreate
[2014/04/22 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i could supply the dae files if needed
[2014/04/22 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant post them publicly though
[2014/04/22 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: took me a long while to figure out what the heck was going on
[2014/04/22 11:14]  Robert Adams: I'll scatter a bunch of "if (child)" tests areound and that will fix everything ;-)
[2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: the odd thing is
[2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: its only when there is a region to the north
[2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it always lands north
[2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it can have regions east west and south and it never occurs
[2014/04/22 11:16]  Mata Hari: if there's nothing north does it drop to the location it's supposed to go to?
[2014/04/22 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: yep
[2014/04/22 11:16]  dan banner: odd
[2014/04/22 11:16]  Mata Hari: wow....that's really odd
[2014/04/22 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: very
[2014/04/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: i do find the wierd ones
[2014/04/22 11:17]  Vivian Klees: is online.
[2014/04/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/04/22 11:17]  Robert Adams: the directionality is an odd thing... probably due to some neighbor tests being distance and not topology
[2014/04/22 11:17]  Robert Adams: I need to revisit that logic
[2014/04/22 11:18]  christina wildrose: is offline.
[2014/04/22 11:18]  dan banner: anyone have any thought about how "show in search" can become unchecked?
[2014/04/22 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, I know nothing about how search is operating here
[2014/04/22 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe andrew knows :0
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: I doubt it has anything to actually do with search
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: something with parcel settings in general i suspect
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: What's this about search?
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: flags not propegating properly
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: you set something else or make a new parcel
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: hi, everyone. Distracted myself again after my PDA beed to tell me of the meeting.
[2014/04/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: and that flag gets dropped, that would be my guess
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: this has happened in the past
[2014/04/22 11:21]  dan banner: another issue i have noticed when i stream music is if a regular user opens about land and clicks anything it often restarts the stream setting
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: someone changes something or adds new functionality
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: and the flags get whack-a-doo
[2014/04/22 11:21]  dan banner: which gets very annoying to have the music cut out
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: I recall rencently there being changes to parcel stuff
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: wasnt that you justin?
[2014/04/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: something to fix multiple parcels
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I fixed an issue where bad parcels were being lazily created
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the one
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: there are too many possible race conditions for that to work well
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that shouldn't have affected any flags stuff
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: only reason I mention it is because i suspect this happened around the same time as that
[2014/04/22 11:22]  dan banner: ya this stuff was happening before the bad parcel thing
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: in the general ball park anyway
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Vivian Klees: dan is it any time that an edit in the about land the music cuts out?
[2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: i thought it was pretty recent
[2014/04/22 11:22]  dan banner: yes vivian
[2014/04/22 11:23]  Vivian Klees: it happens in in SL as well
[2014/04/22 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe its happening when music parcel is set or changed
[2014/04/22 11:23]  Sarah Kline: that normaly happens in SL, but only for owner?
[2014/04/22 11:23]  dan banner: and regular users with no permissions cant edit the stream but they can cause it to restart
[2014/04/22 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: those parcel flag settings are tricky
[2014/04/22 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: and easily screwed up I think
[2014/04/22 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: I know we have had similar issues like this in the past with other check boxes not staying checked
[2014/04/22 11:24]  Kentucky Friedkin: is online.
[2014/04/22 11:24]  dan banner: i think its related to the stream issue
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe some kind of serialization problem with the data?
[2014/04/22 11:25]  lillith.xue i have one similiar with windlight reseting to default on opening pacel-info
[2014/04/22 11:25]  dan banner: somehow users without permissions are able to reset certain things even without changing anything
[2014/04/22 11:25]  lillith.xue ;-)
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Kentucky Friedkin: is offline.
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: ah hmm
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe ctrl+alt+v
[2014/04/22 11:25]  dan banner: nope
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: checks are failing
[2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: happens even without that?
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Vivian Klees: any changes in the about land usually triggers an update thus the music restarting
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: has anyone mentioned this to Melanie?
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, if it's consistent could even be an issue with the flag accidetnally not being copied or similar
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: she probably knows a lot about theis stuff
[2014/04/22 11:26]  dan banner: i can interrupt stream with a normal avatar just by clicking in about land
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats not good at all
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Vivian Klees: that shouldn't happen
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Kayaker Magic: mantis!
[2014/04/22 11:26]  dan banner: no it shouldnt
[2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is probably the best person to talk to about this
[2014/04/22 11:27]  Sarah Kline: does not happen in SL except owner...just tried it
[2014/04/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: this is up her alley for sure
[2014/04/22 11:27]  Sarah Kline: if owner makes any change to parcel stream resets (expected behavor)
[2014/04/22 11:28]  dan banner: for example if you turn on the stream here
[2014/04/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: I am pinging her on IRC
[2014/04/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe you can explain it dan
[2014/04/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: if she pongs back
[2014/04/22 11:29]  dan banner: what i get is [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
 [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss
[2014/04/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: is there a mantis?
[2014/04/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2014/04/22 11:29]  dan banner: as the stream is restarted over an over
[2014/04/22 11:29]  dan banner: no nothing yet
[2014/04/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/04/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey robert, you still there?
[2014/04/22 11:30]  dan banner: i thought i'd ask about it first before opening one
[2014/04/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/04/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: definitely open one
[2014/04/22 11:31]  dan banner: i could try it in avn too
[2014/04/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: and when melanie pops in we'll run it by her
[2014/04/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be good
[2014/04/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: make note of that in the mantis
[2014/04/22 11:31]  Brother Burgess: is online.
[2014/04/22 11:32]  Brother Burgess: is offline.
[2014/04/22 11:32]  Vivian Klees: either it's firestorm or the god user?
[2014/04/22 11:32]  dan banner: seems its any user can cause it
[2014/04/22 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like some kind of server side check is failing
[2014/04/22 11:32]  dan banner: yup
[2014/04/22 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: viewer should never be able to do that
[2014/04/22 11:33]  Vivian Klees:
[2014/04/22 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: /me coughs
[2014/04/22 11:35]  Vivian Klees: it had been that way ever since you asked to turn music on in the viewer
[2014/04/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ?? what do you mean Vivian?
[2014/04/22 11:36]  Vivian Klees: the about land box being blank
[2014/04/22 11:37]  Vivian Klees: turned on music then about land
[2014/04/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[2014/04/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: I thought you meant in the code itself
[2014/04/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ok well hopefully Melanie has some insight, i suspect she does
[2014/04/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any other pressing topics?
[2014/04/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: heh just noticed someone set the Swedish flags
[2014/04/22 11:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've got two things I've been trying to work on (when I have some time). Can't search event listings using the ossearch module. Event markers do show on map.
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I wante dto discuss the terrain heigh issue with robert but I think he might be afk
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: nice
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: I also still can not get inbound data from an external website. That's holding up several projects.
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ah
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Mata Hari: this past weekend there were several parties where there was a major problem happening with textures not being sent to the clients and the sim would almost grind to a halt
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: IM him?
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: that might get his attention with a ding noise
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: the one that Dev brought up last week (mantis 7076)
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I already have
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[2014/04/22 11:39]  Mata Hari: trouble is I don't yet have enough information to give any sort of meaningful Mantis on it
[2014/04/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I may be worth recording perfomrnace stats - though unfortunatley I have no bw to look at issues atm
[2014/04/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice to get the capsule stuff fixed
[2014/04/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: its a complicated issue
[2014/04/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm haivng difficult just getting bw to look at critical release blocking issues
[2014/04/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: neb: capsule stuff? bulletsim?
[2014/04/22 11:41]  Mata Hari: another things that seems to be happening recently is people's legs getting stuck in "flying" mode but the rest of them animates correctly for whatever they're playing
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: its both Bulletsim and ODE
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: the avatar capsule is the shape that actually collides
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: neb: these are historical issues?
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Mata Hari: related to height as well I think
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Robert Adams: what is the height problem you mention?
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: hey there he is
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Mata Hari: well...capsule
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Robert Adams: I made some tweeks for height and it should be bettern
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Allexander Morgridge: hi
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: and yes Justin, its been a lingering problem since forever really
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: Mantis 7076
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: its neer been quite right
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Robert Adams: is the avatar on terrain still off?
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: the only time its really been accurate is if you keep your height at 50
[2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: or ruth size
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: terrain heigh storage was differently scaled over a short so now the max terrain height is 327.67?
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: even in ODE
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ooh that issue
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: i thought you mean avatars standing on terrain
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: we talked about several issues like that last week
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: I was confusing the two sorry
[2014/04/22 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: no problem
[2014/04/22 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: /me 's stomach rumbles
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I'm still looking at that sit patch
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: having to understand all the details
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Mata Hari: there'me hands Justin a cookie
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: but as far as I can tell, it matches what is actually the case in SL
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks mata :)
[2014/04/22 11:46]  Mata Hari: not too many before dinner though
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: you sound like my mum
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Mata Hari: :p
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Mata Hari: and clean your room!
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh gawd :)
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Dev Random: The other issue with heights is that the shorts appear to be overflowing. 327.68 = -327.68
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ya we did to a bunch of testing on that sit patch, and I experienced no issues
[2014/04/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: dan and Key did you guys notice anything wierd?
[2014/04/22 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: dev: I guess the naive approach is to say the data type should be wider, but that might not be compatible with the sl protocol or that might mean a lot more data storage
[2014/04/22 11:48]  Key Gruin: if I rememberm the sit patch made us lower
[2014/04/22 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't looked at the problem in detail
[2014/04/22 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it will move you like 0.1 or something
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: key: yes, compared to currently, partily because there was a bug in the last change
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: which was in dec 2013
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Key Gruin: just a diff in height, but no weirdness
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: do you think it would be a huge problem with that small adjust?
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: howver, afacit, this patch makes it match with sl, so it should never need to change again.....
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i mean I know last time people kind of freaked out
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: but last time it was sooo much worse
[2014/04/22 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: it was like a meter last time
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: personally I dont see it being a problem, especially if it finally matches us 1:1 with SL scripts
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: even without this patch, fixing the dec 2013 bug would make pretty mch the same change
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Mata Hari: yeah, was brutal.....had to go and redo sit targets for 100000000 furniture items
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: ya and you might have to do that again now, but it wont be so brutally bad
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Robert Adams: so, do we need terrain highter than 300?
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: you wont be underground
[2014/04/22 11:50]  Mata Hari: /me was just making a worm avi
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I cant imagine so Robert
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: my understanding is that some people have terrain above 300?
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, no ?
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: neb: no? I think dev said there was?
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure you could export terrain thats over 256
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Robert Adams: if so, I can create a new terrain storage class... it's all subclassed now so a new storage and representation would be easy to add
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: the sit change would be about 0.2m
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: technically a terrain save should fail
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: for anything over 256m
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: but maybe not
[2014/04/22 11:51]  Dev Random: there are regions on OSG with higher terrain.
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: terrain saves should 256 greyscale
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Dev Random: terrrain save in terragen format works
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: 0m = black
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: 256m = white
[2014/04/22 11:52]  dan banner: makes sense
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Robert Adams: I can add checks to make sure it is not over 256... would restrict the overflow
[2014/04/22 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: either that if we want to keep over 256
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: terrain save myterrain.png should fail and say terrain over 256m use terregen or something
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Robert Adams: the bitmap saves are 256, but RAW can be more, I think
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: I can imagine one might want 256+ eventually if one wants mountains
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Dev Random: ll raw can go to 512 IIRC
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Mata Hari: with var regions I can imaging people who might want more then 256m
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: in a bigger varregion
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: i certainly wouldnt want to cut off realistic use cases
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: but any format that cant support over 256m should say so
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is, you can't always accomodate everything that sort of worked because nobody has been doing proper bounds checking until now
[2014/04/22 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: so we dont get endless support tickets
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: particularly not if it's a huge amount of work
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Mata Hari: what's the range from Marianas trench to top of Everest?
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: thats like 15 miles
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: haha
[2014/04/22 11:54]  Dev Random: need to check for negs on load too... terragen can import them
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: negs are another issue. I know what was said elsehwere, but I also know people using negative z myself
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: which should never have been allowed to happen really, since the viewer has somie subtle bugs with negative z
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: does save oars hadle that stuff?
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: what format does oar use for terrain?
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: raw?
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: r32 I think
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess it doesnt matter then really
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Robert Adams: I"d like to say terrain has to be above zero -- no negatives
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: it might be good then if some of the formats that dont support those to fail
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: instead of saving broken files
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's fair - unfortunately ppl using negative terrain will just have to shift it all up, plus objects
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Dev Random: or truncate to zero?
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: if thats what indeed is actually happening, i dont know I am assuming
[2014/04/22 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is possible with a few console commands. Though having negative z is intuitively nice as 'below' sea level
[2014/04/22 11:57]  Robert Adams: shifting everything up is easy using OARs and --displacement
[2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that isn't a correct interpretation of neg z
[2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: ah yes, that too
[2014/04/22 11:57]  Dev Random: but if you shift it all up, your sea level doesn't match your neighbour's.
[2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: true
[2014/04/22 11:58]  Mystic Moonlight: is online.
[2014/04/22 11:58]  Robert Adams: /me expects to hear from the people with underwater cities
[2014/04/22 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: why would you say terrain has to be above zero. Because of viewer issues or something else as well?
[2014/04/22 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they will be irate ;)
[2014/04/22 11:58]  Mata Hari: ....setting a standard to 0=sealevel would be intuitive for sure
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Vivian Klees: and there are those who do shift sea level for dams
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Robert Adams: no reason against negative terrain except it will make all the boundry conditions and other testing easier
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: if you dont want terrain add alpha texture on the terrain ?
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i remember before if you set terrain below 0 you would fall foreveer
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt happen anymore?
[2014/04/22 11:59]  Mata Hari: is that all handles server-side with the viewer having nothing to do with it?
[2014/04/22 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: I cant say I have ever done a negative terrain
[2014/04/22 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer will accept negative z but with some bugs
[2014/04/22 12:00]  dan banner: ya i dont think the newer viewers let you do that
[2014/04/22 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, fog distance doesnt' work properly
[2014/04/22 12:00]  Robert Adams: I could make another terrain storage format that takes signed integers or somethings -- would take up a lot more memory and DB especially for varregions
[2014/04/22 12:00]  Key Gruin: I had a minus 2000 terrain a few years ago
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Robert Adams: in BulletSim, a ground plane is built at 0 so things won't fall forever
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Key Gruin: Region name: Deeper Than Shit
[2014/04/22 12:01]  ladyjo martin: is offline.
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: appropriate
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Dev Random: neb.. after the meeting, try Titanic Belfast region ... it's at -50.
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Robert Adams: with negative terrain you could get below that... I'd have to decide on some minimum
[2014/04/22 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, unfortunately I have to go
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: will need to make some decision on negative tererain and heights before 0.8-rc1 though
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Mata Hari: bye Justin....don't forget to eat :p
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: I get to eat after another 1 hour meeting ;)
[2014/04/22 12:02]  lillith.xue bye justin
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya
[2014/04/22 12:02]  dan banner: laters
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Dev Random: cya
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Robert Adams: I"m running also... take care all
[2014/04/22 12:02]  Mata Hari: I'm off router finally arrived so hopefully I can get to my own sims again
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