Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-11

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[11:04]  Robert Adams: I checked in a change to terrain updating this morning... the next step is to add the per presence updating (using draw distance ,etc)
[11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: twice a year back ?
[11:04]  Andrew Hellershanks is Online
[11:04]  Robert Adams: there will need to be some work on terrain update throttling... it is wrong
[11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: ok robert
[11:04]  Nebadon.Izumi @: hello
[11:04]  Key Gruin: ya I always like setting my clock back
[11:05]  Nebadon.Izumi @: oh right
[11:05]  logger sewell: I'm not saying a word it's 73 and sunshine here
[11:05]  Nebadon.Izumi @: stupid DST
[11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: that sounds logic robert, its haveing the same habbit as with normal edit in the past when throttling where wrong
[11:05]  Key Gruin: I updated a bit a go and gave terrain a quick try, seems better
[11:06]  Key Gruin: ago* / terrain editing*
[11:06]  Vivian Klees: what's the word on changing the avie capsule?
[11:06]  Nebadon.Izumi @: Justin isnt even on skype, he will likely show up at end of this hour
[11:06]  Robert Adams: Mic added a hack to work around some of the terrain throttling.... check the note in the mantis
[11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks is back
[11:07]  logger sewell: wb
[11:07]  vegaslon plutonian: would anyone like to see the limit of how big a physical prim can be removed if the linked prim that is larger then 64 meters is set as physics none?
[11:08]  Nebadon.Izumi @: that is a good idea
[11:09]  Nebadon.Izumi @: as of right now vegaslon even if its set none the entire object wont become physical?
[11:09]  Robert Adams: Mantis 7008 has the note on the CanniblizeTexturerate INI parameter
[11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon, key on your video terrain edit looks fats. i guess its a var
[11:09]  vegaslon plutonian: ya that limiting code does not take into account the ability to change physics type on prims
[11:09]  Nebadon.Izumi @: right, thats a good idea
[11:10]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I saw Lani put in a patch to change the limit to 64m
[11:10]  Nebadon.Izumi @: im still not convinced that is a good idea
[11:10]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I like your idea better
[11:10]  Robert Adams: meshes are allowing bigger things
[11:11]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya but that doesnt mean that we should alow 64m physical objects by default, i dunno though
[11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: i think 64meters is not a good idea to. opensim is still not sl.
[11:11]  Robert Adams: and it is time to either fix the old SL limitations or get off the bus
[11:11]  Nebadon.Izumi @: agreed if its done right I think its good
[11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: AM sure it can be set at soem point to 64meters. but first get bulletsim compleet and default running.
[11:12]  Nebadon.Izumi @: bulletsim is the default already
[11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: then think about increaseing parameters
[11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, lets say it different. get everybody on 0.8
[11:12]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I have not done much more with my racer though
[11:12]  Nebadon.Izumi @: because it still consumes a lot of CPU
[11:13]  Nebadon.Izumi @: just 1 person driving my racer around really spikes cpu very high
[11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: Im still waiting on soem fixes. but robert told me there's progress :)
[11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I'll be looking at the racer scripts soon. There are a bunch of people who want to make their motorcycles move and I thought that script might be helpful.
[11:13]  Robert Adams: your racer is still on my todo list.... I'm still suspecting inter-linkset messaging but don't have proof of that yet
[11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, mesh or prim  one ? mabty the collisions ?
[11:13]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its both mesh and prims
[11:14]  Nebadon.Izumi @: most of the mesh is set to physics type = none
[11:14]  Nebadon.Izumi @: and there are invisble prims that are actually the collision hull
[11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: Hmm. my train use linked messages to. only maby not in high rateing. i know llSay can screw my viewer and start lagging it
[11:14]  Robert Adams: the last I looked, it seemed the collisions and such events were goingto all child prims even though they shouldn't
[11:14]  Nebadon.Izumi @: my racer technically is just a box and 4 spheres for tires
[11:14]  Robert Adams: didn't see why the filtering wasn't filtering
[11:15]  Vivian Klees: prim linkage still a problem?
[11:16]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, what happens (lol) if you remove the wheels from the racer and only drive around with 1 prim ?
[11:16]  Nebadon.Izumi @: another thing needs fixing is child prim collision detection
[11:16]  Nebadon.Izumi @: Richardus its probably better that way
[11:16]  Nebadon.Izumi @: i cant say I have really tried
[11:16]  Richardus Raymaker: just idea to test, if its still spikeing then ..
[11:17]  vegaslon plutonian: driving around with just a box still is not smooth, likes to push the front up on what is supposed to be a flat surface
[11:17]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, last time i tried it that worke dfine for me
[11:18]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya my racer passes a lot of information through the linkset
[11:18]  Nebadon.Izumi @: for effects, like particles and stuff like that
[11:19]  Nebadon.Izumi @: sounds etc..
[11:19]  Dahlia Trimble is Online
[11:19]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I am certainly open to suggestions if someone thinks it can be done better
[11:19]  Mata Hari: you could try doing some of that via osSetPrimitiveParams and see if that speeds it up a little
[11:20]  Vivian Klees: I can tell you it's not 100% in sl
[11:20]  Nebadon.Izumi @: id prefer not to use OSSL
[11:20]  Nebadon.Izumi @: only because using OSSL means it doesnt work everywhere
[11:20]  Nebadon.Izumi @: and it requires people to have to change their configurations to make the racer work
[11:20]  vegaslon plutonian: I would suggest a startup that reads the prim names in the linkset so you only send your link messages to the correct prim
[11:20]  Mata Hari: yeah, I understand....just thinking of methods for speeding it up
[11:21]  Nebadon.Izumi @: thats difficult vegaslon
[11:21]  Nebadon.Izumi @: i use prim names for the color changer
[11:21]  Nebadon.Izumi @: most of the prims are named "interior" or "exterior"
[11:21]  Nebadon.Izumi @: so when you change colors it changes everything with that name
[11:21]  vegaslon plutonian: other idea is have each script report its location and just save them
[11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: I made a script in the past that did read prim lionk numbers
[11:22]  Robert Adams would like the OSSL functions to be enabled by default (this is OpenSim after all)
[11:22]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:22]  Vivian Klees: hi Dahlia
[11:22]  Nebadon.Izumi @: hello Dahlia
[11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:22]  Mata Hari: I wonder if llRegionSay on a negative channel and a crap-load of listeners in your children would be faster or slower (I would guess slowed but I'd never tested it since I hate having a to of listens open)
[11:22]  logger sewell: Hi Dahlia
[11:23]  Nebadon.Izumi @: this is latest racer if anyone wants a copy
[11:23]  vegaslon plutonian: ya until ossl functions are enabled and people are able to see the physic engine name consistantly people are going to keep crying about their vehicles not working
[11:23]  Colour Palette: Initialising...
[11:23]  reset button: Reset
[11:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bailing out of functions as soon as possible can also help with script time.
[11:23]  logger sewell: thanks neb
[11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: ossl is bad idea. besides soem scripts maby dont want to use ossl
[11:23]  Nebadon.Izumi @: woah
[11:23]  Nebadon.Izumi @: who erased it?
[11:24]  Dahlia Trimble: oops I clicked "Take"
[11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, I saw a ton of if statements and no return's in the if to get out of the routine when it found one that matched.
[11:24]  Nebadon.Izumi @: lol
[11:24]  Vivian Klees: lol
[11:24]  Colour Palette: Initialising...
[11:24]  logger sewell: ha ha
[11:24]  Pathfinder.Lester greedy! lol
[11:24]  Nebadon.Izumi @: lol ya the down side of god powers
[11:24]  Nebadon.Izumi @: lol
[11:24]  Vivian Klees: take copy gives an hourglass
[11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: same here. cirlcing cirlce
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @: probably just lag
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I got it
[11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: got it
[11:25]  Pathfinder.Lester i got it too
[11:25]  Mata Hari: nice model :)
[11:25]  Key Gruin: oh now I have two lol
[11:25]  Pathfinder.Lester ty Neb
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @: no problem
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @: if anyone finds anyway to improve it please let me know
[11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: Key, handy in case you crash one
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @: Id love contributions, this is meant to be a kit
[11:25]  Key Gruin: hehe
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @: so people can make their own racers
[11:26]  Dahlia Trimble: do the wheels rotate?
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @: no
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @: thats just not possible here
[11:26]  Dahlia Trimble: not?
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @: i was however working on a way to use textures to rotate
[11:26]  Mata Hari: btw, on an unrelated topic I've been doing some spring cleaning to my inventory and wondered why it's still necessary to go to the OSG website to empty there no way to allow the user to do so directly from the viewer on a ROBUST system?
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: no not really Dahlia
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: i could make the back tires spin easily
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: but the front tires because they turn left to right
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its almost impossible to get them to spin
[11:27]  Andrew Hellershanks: yea, wouldn't be hard to make the tires appear to rotate or actually rotate.
[11:27]  vegaslon plutonian: packets do not come in order and so they wobble when you try to turn the front wheels and have a lltargetomega
[11:27]  Dahlia Trimble: I used to rotate them on my vehicles, it works if the weels are a single prim
[11:27]  Dahlia Trimble: used llTargetOmega
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: the wheels are single prims
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: but in opensim it just doesnt work
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @: it looks terrible
[11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, llKeyFrameMotion dont work ? hmm no i think thats root only
[11:28]  Dahlia Trimble: llTargetOmega doesnt work?
[11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: You can't just drop in an llTargetOmega call?
[11:28]  Nebadon.Izumi @: it works but when you turn the tires
[11:28]  Nebadon.Izumi @: they appear to wobble
[11:28]  Nebadon.Izumi @: and it never looks right
[11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh
[11:28]  Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: in that case texture effect would be the alternative.
[11:28]  Nebadon.Izumi @: right
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: let me show you what i was working on
[11:29]  Dahlia Trimble: probably need to align the center of the wheels in the mesh vertices
[11:29]  Pathfinder.Lester Speaking of inventory stuff, Kitely's Marketplace is now testing delivery of items across the Hypergrid. There's a beta test happening right now if you want to try it out. More info at
[11:29]  vegaslon plutonian: or have three mesh wheels always rotating and use alpha
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ok see the front tire
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: see how its invisible
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: my idea was
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: when the vehcile is moving
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: make the texture on the rim geometry 100% invisible
[11:29]  Nebadon.Izumi @: then i put a flat cylinder over top
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: that has a screenshot of the rim geometry
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: that i would spin
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: then when vehicle stops it becomes invisible and rim becomes visible again
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its not perfect but its pretty good
[11:30]  Dahlia Trimble: I used to adjust llTargetOmega based on the speed
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya that would be great
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @: if we could figure that out
[11:31]  Nebadon.Izumi @: so far its eluded me
[11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: fahlia ,  tried that with something else. but that jump to 0 bug is annoying. or does that only happen in sl ?
[11:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, you do have gear shift. Higher gear, faster rotation.
[11:31]  Dahlia Trimble: not hard, just compute speed and use it as one of the parameter,I think it's gain
[11:31]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya it would be easy
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @: if we could get multiple llTargetOmega prims to turn on a linkset
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I just dont know how to do it
[11:32]  Dahlia Trimble: or maybe there's even a LSL finction? llGetVel()? cant remember
[11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, that would solve for plane builders problems toi
[11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: Its a prim property. Should be possible to have multiple prims rotating.
[11:33]  Script saved
[11:33]  Script saved
[11:33]  Mata Hari: how perfectly symmetrical is the model
[11:34]  Nebadon.Izumi @: basically this is what happens for me
[11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: bad axe
[11:34]  vegaslon plutonian: hmm got a little further then that
[11:35]  Dahlia Trimble: oh ok wheel vertices not aligned properly, I think you can fix that in blender
[11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:35]  Script saved
[11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: hmm... Can set target omega but I don't see a call that lets it be set on a specific prim.
[11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: in a linkset.
[11:35]  Nebadon.Izumi @: these tires are aligned perfectly already
[11:36]  Richardus Raymaker: Andrew. script need to be in the rotating prim
[11:36]  vegaslon plutonian: basically the problem is you have to call llTargetOmega everytime the tire turns left or right
[11:36]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its aligned on center of mass for the origin
[11:36]  Nebadon.Izumi @: the same thing happens if you use a prim cylinder for a tire
[11:36]  Mata Hari: looks like it's doing some sort of rotation relative to root instead of to itself
[11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi @: anyway if anyone has suggestions or example scripts on how to do this better, would love to see it
[11:38]  vegaslon plutonian: what I have found is that you always get one packet before the other, the llsetrot or the lltargetomega. so when you turn the lltargetomega always has a second as being at the past rotation
[11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi @: all the vehicles i have ever seen in SL done us llTargetOmega tires
[11:38]  Nebadon.Izumi @: they do texture animation
[11:39]  Dahlia Trimble: this thing rotates and interpolates between rotations
[11:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: I think the rotation is based on world axis and not the prim axis
[11:39]  Dev Random: Looks to me like rotation is applied to the wheel at a point in time... e.g. Wheel stops, "left/right" rotation is applied, then original rotation resumes.
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @: if i rotate the root prim its fine
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its only if i rotate just thetire
[11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi @: so rear tires i could spin no problem
[11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi @: its just tires that do steering too
[11:41]  Script saved
[11:41]  Script saved
[11:42]  Mata Hari: so what's happening is llTargetOmega is taking its rotation from the root instead of the child
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @: llTargetOmega uses world axis i think
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @: so if you change your prim from 0, 90, 270 etc..
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @: getting it to rotate on its own axis is way more difficult
[11:43]  Mata Hari: so ideally the root needs to use world axis and children need to use local or something like that
[11:43]  Key Gruin: that's a basic fault of lsl
[11:43]  Nebadon.Izumi @: requires crazy math, you can do it
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: This would be a case for having some new OSSL functions where you could set target omega for specific prims (llLinkTargetOmega?)
[11:44]  Mata Hari: yeah
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: The other half of that thought went out the window.
[11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi @: im not sure its that easy
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: err... osLinkTargetOmega.
[11:45]  vegaslon plutonian: this is all veiwer side problems
[11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: It could also take a parameter to say if rotation axis is prim or world based.
[11:46]  Mata Hari: that reminds me....@Dahlia: is there any chance of an os function to allow setting advanced mats parameters (UUID etc of normal and specular maps)?
[11:47]  Dahlia Trimble: Mata, I don't know of any reason it cant be done but I dont have time currently
[11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, there's no normal lsl command for that ?
[11:47]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe later unless someone else wants to do it
[11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @: if there is opensim doesnt support it yet
[11:47]  Mata Hari: kk....would be hugely useful
[11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @: maybe there is in SL
[11:48]  Mata Hari: not in LSL yet afaik
[11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @: I could see reasons why LL wouldnt want to support that
[11:48]  Mata Hari: I would think it will be added to the list of arguments the the llSetPrimitiveParams() will take
[11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya
[11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @: that would make sense to do it there and not a new function
[11:49]  Mata Hari: definitely
[11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm possible there is not a lsl command right now, or its so new i cant find it. i think the made some commands. but can be wrong
[11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a way to specify target omega for a prim instead of a new function.
[11:50]  Mata Hari: I've checked their wiki for any updates but haven't seen it....would be very handy when working with some meshes where it's very, very hard to select faces
[11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, that wheel is ruining your moon carpet :)
[11:50]  Mata Hari: (and there's no way to step through faces manually that I know of in the way you can step through children in a linkset)
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @: lol
[11:51]  Primitive: This Prim is Clean... 
[11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: what you mean with step faces ?
[11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: you can still set with lsls 1 mesh face
[11:53]  Mata Hari: to select a specific face manually without clicking on it
[11:53]  3D Radar: on
[11:53]  vegaslon plutonian: would have to select all and then deselect faces do not want to edit
[11:53]  vegaslon plutonian: only got 8 faces
[11:54]  Mata Hari: and that method only works if you can get deselect all of the faces you don't want
[11:54]  Mata Hari: if yuo have 2 that are hard to select then it's impossible
[11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: huh ? just select edit texture face
[11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: then click the face you want to edit. as long its a seper\zaate texture face
[11:55]  Mata Hari: how do I pick face #4 specifically without clicking on it?
[11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: sepearte
[11:55]  Mata Hari: it can be insanely hard with some mesh objects to select a specific face manually
[11:56]  Freakys.Clone hi@all
[11:56]  Robert Adams: going to run.... take care everyone... see you in Mantis :)
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @: see you Robert
[11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: bye robert
[11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: hi freaky.
[11:56]  Mata Hari: and any way, that' only 1 of many issues.....if you want to switch textures on a face via script and your textures have corresponding normal and specular maps then you're screwed
[11:56]  Mircea Kitsune: hi
[11:56]  Kayaker Magic: 5 more minutes until 11:00 on the old clock...
[11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya pretty much Mata for now anyway
[11:57]  Robert Adams is Offline
[11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: Time change always messes up knowing the meeting time and if one is early or late.
[11:58]  Mircea Kitsune: Dev Random: Nicely made avatar :)
[11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @: ya pretty sure Justin will be showing up any minute heh
[11:59]  Mata Hari: another related question.....why is it necessary to send the entire mesh data and wait for a response every time you unwear it? Shouldn't it just be the attachment point and parameters that get sent (just like with prims and scultps)?
[12:00]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          4f67286: 2014-03-09 19:09:10 -0400 (Unix/Mono)
[12:00]  Nebadon.Izumi @: not sure Mata
[12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm heading out.
[12:01]  Vivian Klees is Offline
[12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: bye abdrew
[12:01]  Mircea Kitsune: Later, see you
[12:01]  Mata Hari: bye Andrew
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