Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-03

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[11:02] Nebadon Izumi is online.
[11:03] Master Dubrovna: When do you think the switch to the new server will take place?
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it already has partially
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: all new uploads and about 21 million assets are already being served from new server
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: there is about another 51 million to convert which is like 95% done
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: were working on database portion now
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: not only are we changing hardware
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: we are moving from sras v1 to sras v2
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: which is like 1000% better
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: sras v1 was horrible
[11:04] Master Dubrovna: Great!
[11:05] Arielle Popstar: between versions?
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin
[11:05] Arielle Popstar: whats the difwhats the diff....
[11:05] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin
[11:05] Inanna Beaumont: hi all :-)
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: eek
[11:06] Master Dubrovna: Hey Justin
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: chat out of order
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: dang, RL calls, I'll miss this meeting
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the difference in sras?
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: yes
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras v1 was written in Ruby on Rails
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and runs inside of apache
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: sras versions and 2
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras2 is pure ruby and runs standalone
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: ahh
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: no apache required
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras2 also does asset deduplication in a much more precise manner
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: and also allows us to gzip the assets
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: however gzipping will happen later
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: right now were just moving and converting the assets
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: the conversion and move are done
[11:07] Arielle Popstar: will that work for windows?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: now we just need to convert the database
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: which is happening as we speak
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: then its done
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: all with zero downtime :)
[11:08] Master Dubrovna: More storage capacity for the future?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the old server has 3.3gb free
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we really cut it close
[11:08] Master Dubrovna: whoa
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: but thats srart. and thats not robust. but i understand from otehr chat that robust have some assets dub check to with new version
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the new server has 3.6tb free
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: before compression
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: 3.3GB ?
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: 3.3GB ?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: after compression should have like 4.5tb free
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: new databases?
[11:09] Master Dubrovna: How is backups of the database done?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes we really cut it close on the old server
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: actually at one point the old server ran out of space
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and i had to rig it up
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i ended up moving 12gb of assets to the root partition
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and making symlinks
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: does robust 0.7.6 have some better assets system to ?
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: xassets has de-duping
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: it feels like with 0.7.6 you need to learn 50% again :)
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: Justin said he may make some changes in it yet.
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm doning an update to 076 now. What has changed that makes you think there is a lot to learn all over again?
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yes,it will not be ready for use in 0.7.6
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: oh.. hmmm
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hope its not going to be painfull to migrate
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: or more precisely, it works now but I reserve the right to make changes without any migration path
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: :D
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I have yet to completely figure that out. It's possible to ichain the dedpue asset ser vice with the old one
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: make sure you comment that in the ini file
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: so you can leave all assets in the old and they will get gradually put into the new over time
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: no shit richardus
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: does gzip work on windows?
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: it has a huge red warning on startup
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: robust doesnt support gzipping assets
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I have yet to decide on how a final migration would be achieved
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and sras only runs in linux
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: When did the dedupe system go in to OS?
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: really? Why won't it run in windows or mac?
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: feels not before 0.7.7 i think
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well it might
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but no one has tested it
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: prob about a year ago
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: thats no good
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect the flat file storage might be problematic
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I would be very surprised if it does not work in windows and mac
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: esp. if its just ruby
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it might
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but there is not gaurantee it will
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and i doubt coyled is going to test it ever on windows
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: if it won't run in Windows, it's because "There's no place like home".
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: well
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it also relies on a file called .srasrc
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: for configurations
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: there may be ways around that though
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: make the config file configurable
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: it probably has a cross-platform configuration lib.
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: one would just create a .srasrc file in the right place, even if that's not what one is used to on windows
[11:16] BlueWall Slade hasn't done Ruby before
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: might also be able to us cygwin to run it
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: extra useless load. gives me mono feelings and nightmares :O
[11:17] Arielle Popstar watches the increase in difficulty rise
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: honestly
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: sras is not easy to use
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it never will be
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: for most people what is in core is sufficient
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: no other solutions that are cross platform?
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's the idea of putting deduping in core
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: unless your running a grid like OSgrid, or Moses
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: you are wasting your time on sras
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe it's important for a large enough number of people that I'm prepared to spend my time developing and maintaing it
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I did a proof of concept of deduping in core some time ago.
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya I imagine all of the sras functionality will eventually be in core
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: well, the assets de0dub i go mis for a while
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: one of the big stumbling blocks of sras
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I don't thin kit will - it's simply makes everything too complex
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is none of the default assets are in it
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and getting them there is not so simple
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: so you really need to know what your doing if you plan on running sras
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Last time I tried SRAS it wanted a version of Ruby that I didn't have.
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yes rvm makes that easy
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: with rvm you can run multiple versions of ruby
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: that definitely makes things a bit easier
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but its still much harder to setup than robust is
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably does. I don't really know much about Ruby.
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: must be like virtualenv for python
[11:22] Arielle Popstar: test
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: tes back
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any topics they wanted to talk about this week ?
[11:22] Arielle Popstar: ok, i am still here :)
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: I am a little distracted logging in my radegast avatars into CC grid on 2nd computer
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: How are the TP code changes coming along?
[11:23] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          56f565b: 2013-08-29 16:54:13 -0400 (Unix/Mono)
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: pretty good, justin added a few more last night
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: to deal with being able to see chat for up to 10 seconds after you left a region
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: couple more things need to be ironed out
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: tp seems to work reasonably well with some caveats
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: like ending up at 200m when you tp
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: we have default regions for HG now?
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: oh gwt to see what people say about you after you leave....nice ;)
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you know what justin
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: oh thats betetr then 328564256829 meters
[11:24] Fred.Appleby Can you adjust the height of the landing spot with infohub?
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i just had a thought
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunately the trigger for this is not yet known
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you might have to click on prims
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: on the map
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't followed all the details of what is happening on TP's. Can you do a quick summary of the changes and the expected improvements?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if your clicking where there is terrain only
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: it might not happen
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: nice
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: I saw you were talking about me before I arrived :P
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: yes Dahlia we were
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: hahaha
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: diva made a bunch of changes which reduce the amount of messaging required but significant rearrange how teleporting is done
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: plug your ears so we can finish
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: :(
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: A bunch more changes have been made to stablize it, but there are still some issues
[11:26] Arielle Popstar: better then being ignored
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I actually rather about that will make a difference but worth a try I guess
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty. So this will also help reduce system load when a lot of TP's are happening and also make the TP process more efficient and possibly a little faster?
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: if anybody can actually give me a reproducible tets case that would help
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice.
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: the new process is much more in line with how sl does it, though probably not exactly still
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: I saw it yesterday - was having a hard time with the avatar rezzing.
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: but, I think that was when the assets server was down.
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: that might be what was hosing my tp
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: it wouldn't susprise me if its's more likely to appear with certain kinds of network lag
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: or possib,ly with bulletsim rather than ode. I think that's a little less likely though still possible
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot of stuff is still effectively on hold with trying to get conference stuff done and then a new release
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone had a chance to mess around with the mesh export functions in Singularity or Radegast?
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: a bit
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: here is some stuff i converted to mesh with radegast
[11:33] Pathfinder.Lester I've played with it
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: cleaned up in blender
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: radegast ?
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hmm
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:33] Pathfinder.Lester
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: radegast preserves textures
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: sound like im running behind
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and reduces material
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so you dont have 8 million materials
[11:34] Neo Cortex: cool, have to try that
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it matches any materials that are 100% the same
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and reduces them down
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: nice
[11:34] Pathfinder.Lester wow, very cool
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: that isnt in Singularity?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its in the latest Nightly
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: wich version i use 2.12.1354
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no its not in Singularity yet
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but will be at some point in near future
[11:35] Pathfinder.Lester Latif Khalifa said it's coming to Singularity
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: thats nice nebadon. that way you can at leats get right demension sinto blender to rebuild / shape it or join
[11:35] Pathfinder.Lester see note from Latif at the bottom of my blog post
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ive been going nuts converting stuff
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i have a bunch of stuff on display at the OSCC OSgrid booth i made
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Encitra booth too
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: the Cathedral is there
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: so you rebuilding the sim now ? lol
[11:37] Neo Cortex: actually i am looking for some great looking mesh stuff to set up a presentation sim for potential Oculus Rift users, is there something great looking and fast rezzing amongst it?
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Neo Cortex, check out "Reticulation"
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: here on OSgrid
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats my mesh sandbox
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:38] Neo Cortex: yep... bought ^^
[11:38] Neo Cortex: imagine walking amongst those in 3D ....
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: also check out Cuteulalas roller coasters
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: "Cuteulala Park"
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its not all mesh
[11:40] Neo Cortex: i did.... kind of an express lane to puke town in my Rift...
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. you want to get them sick behind the pc ?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but that would be crazy
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: hahaha
[11:40] Inanna Beaumont: doros 1001 nights too
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: is .7.6 getting close to being released?
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: or is that on the backburner for now?
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: ask that next week arielle
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its delayed until after conference
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: nod
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: just not enough time to do it correctly right now
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: lot of changes lately
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: probably needs time for testing anyway
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya we have been heavily testing it at the CC grid
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: the conference has caused a great deal of work toward optimization to be done
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be the usual issues where it works in one configuration (e.g. cc grid) but then problems crop up when more widely tested
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: this is why releases are quite a big effort
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: but the benefit of having a more stable point in the code is high
[11:46] Cuteulala Artis is offline.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: so looking for 200+ people today at the conference grid?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: that would be nice :)
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: set the default Osgrid region for the CC grid :p
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: so everyone tp'ing gets diverted
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt you could do that
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:48] Neo Cortex: and provoke some login issues ^^
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: can you send a grid wide message for everyone to come?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no real way to send grid wide messages
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: better get Justin to code that capability in
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: actually we did have it at one point
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I do think a service to do that kind of thing would be very useful
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but it was not secure
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: bascially anyone could send the message
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:49] Neo Cortex: ".... the region you are in will be rebooted in two minutes... pleasee jump to the CC grid..."
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: and stuff like be able to kick a person from a central point
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so we removed it
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: hehe yes Neo
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, that kind of thing is not very useful for open grids like osgrid
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: the messaging would be
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: removed it or disabled it?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it was completely removed
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: this was really long time ago
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: bummer
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: like 4-5 years ago
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: everyone message their friends with a link to CC
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a few
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: psst, Fred, you are still a cloud
[11:53] Fred.Appleby kk
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: good now
[11:54] Tiffany Magic: I see Fred rezzed.
[11:54] Fred.Appleby i rebaked
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: well meeting adjourned to CC i guess
[11:55] Fred.Appleby see you all there
[11:55] Neo Cortex: what region should we jump to?
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I'll hang on another 5 mins
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: try "mapto 1"
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: still trying to add some useful things to pCampbot
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: back
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: without quotes
[11:57] Tiffany Magic: Ok.. bye all.
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: we heading over?
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm heading out. see you next week.
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks is offline.
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: alright yes, let's go....
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey looks around and sees everyone alreayd left
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