Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-22

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[11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[11:00]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:00]  Connected
[11:00]  Arielle Popstar: i found thaat person hard to help
[11:01]  Adelle Fitzgerald: lol, you have some crazy avatars these days, Nebadon
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: mesh avatars are so much better
[11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: thats old one arielle
[11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: anyway a ood one
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey really needs to stop using LL 1.23.5
[11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:02]  Sarah Kline: Hi Justin
[11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: i am using Kokua
[11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: i prefefr singulariuty for now bcause scipt editor work
[11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: works pretty good in Linux
[11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: other problem, my cam get stuck in zen like now
[11:02]  Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey sees Nebadon transform into a wierd flapping triangle every time the typing animation kicks
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: in
[11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: i think
[11:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: hi, Arielle
[11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: and the normal ain't much better :)
[11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: lol justin
[11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: you can see me here :;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=1;
[11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: i just made a video of my bulletsim racer
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hover looks... a little unstable :)
[11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: camera is a bit marish too
[11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: it needs some work still
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: but certainly looks better than the last bulletsim vid
[11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: camera is fixed to the racer
[11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: so ya its a tad bumpy at the moment
[11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya this was best performance yet
[11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: like the sparks
[11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: so ya hopefully we will have some good bulletsim vehicles soon
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: we had fun at todays testing
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: though vehicles tend to fly out of the sim at an alarming rate
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: i meant to be there this morning but forgot about it
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: we need to work on that for sure
[11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: Awesome, I am eager to start scripting
[11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: looks more like a moon buggy :P
[11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, yeah
[11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: sorry I havent been able to make the meetings lately
[11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure you saw the video link hiro :;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=1;
[11:06]  logger sewell is Online
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i am really redoing the racer specifically for bullet
[11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: I'll try and have a look -- if I crash, I'll brb
[11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ok
[11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:07]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:07]  BlueWall Slade: hi Dahlia
[11:08]  logger sewell: hey all
[11:08]  BlueWall Slade: hi logger
[11:08]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:08]  Hiro Protagonist: the pluging crashed but the browser/viewer/desktop didnt
[11:08]  Hiro Protagonist: yaya chrome update lol
[11:09]  Hiro Protagonist: *plugin
[11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: I see you're stilling running 3.0.3 here - frame times aren't out of whack like last week
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: mono 3.0.3 I mean
[11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: we shut of sgen
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so this is back with the older gc?
[11:10]  Adelle Fitzgerald: Justin, did you ever get anywhere with the slow HHTP inventory loading issues some have experienced?
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: it seems its still not quite opensim compatible
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: I was hoping the inventory folder version fixing I did helped with that
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: and people stopped complaining
[11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:11]  Adelle Fitzgerald: when did the fix go in?
[11:12]  Arielle Popstar: past few days my inventory has been loading on all viewers on the plaza's at least
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: about 2 months ago
[11:12]  Adelle Fitzgerald: lol, ok, a while back then
[11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: oh bou. neb dod not hide the tpap good enough
[11:12]  Adelle Fitzgerald: reason I mention it, is that I experience it but it is somewhat varied
[11:12]  Arielle Popstar: still seeing full download speeds of something from Osgrid but at least it isnt inventory
[11:13]  Adelle Fitzgerald: a couple of things I've pinned it down to...
[11:13]  Adelle Fitzgerald: one network, as IM in the UK, and OSgrid is US
[11:13]  Adelle Fitzgerald: but also the AOs in viewers
[11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:13]  Adelle Fitzgerald: if I have my AO on and login I experience it badly
[11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Viewer AO is a nasty thing unfortunately
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I haer that viewer AOs requires inspection of the full inventory
[11:13]  MarIey Kimono: hello:)
[11:13]  Adelle Fitzgerald: but with it off, its pretty good
[11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Viewer AO forces inventory to download everytime you log in
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm guessing because animations only require an asset id
[11:14]  Claude Martinek: hello mariey :-)
[11:14]  MarIey Kimono: you canot arrive home claude?
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: why would viewer ao need to do something with entire inventory?
[11:14]  Claude Martinek: i did not try yet
[11:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: I think its something different, Justin
[11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: to find the animations
[11:14]  MarIey Kimono: oki
[11:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: wehn you oogin with the AO enabled, the viewer creates a load of folders and links to the animations
[11:14]  Claude Martinek: let me try :-)
[11:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: *login
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, sounds like a design flaw in how it is trying to find them
[11:14]  Sarah Kline: are they not stored in a specific folder thats recognised?
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[11:15]  Arielle Popstar: singularity loads inventory first before activating ao FS activates immediately
[11:15]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i think that that, coupled with trying to load the entire inventory is what makes it go slow
[11:15]  Adelle Fitzgerald: the old imp 1.4 viewer used to load inventory, before firing the AO
[11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: that would be one way to do it Sarah. The other is for it to determine the UUID of the animation when you set one and then it can request the animation from the grid by that ID
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: iurgh,. my LL v1 crashed - I really do have to stop using it
[11:16]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe
[11:16]  Adelle Fitzgerald: so, really the issue is something to be pointed at the viewer devs
[11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, if it makes you feel better I've had viewer crashes with more recent viewers so it might not just be a v1 issue.
[11:16]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          9c590e5: 2013-01-19 02:40:28 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: nah, I think it is this viewer
[11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: Adelle, I would say so.
[11:16]  Adelle Fitzgerald: so the inventory loads before firing the AO
[11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: v1 used to be stable but that was before mesh enabled regions
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, it depends what the viewer is doing - I was hoping the effect would be lessened by the inventory folder versio nfixes, which would allow the viewer to properly use it's inventory data cache
[11:17]  Arielle Popstar: prob was that when the invenory slow loads the ao would never fire
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I presume that you're seeing this with HTTP inventory active?
[11:17]  Adelle Fitzgerald: yes Justin
[11:17]  Adelle Fitzgerald: but like I said, it varies depending what regions I log into
[11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: If the AO requested the animations directly it wouldn't matter how long it took main inventory to load
[11:18]  Adelle Fitzgerald: on mine at home (DSL in UK) its terrible
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: it might be that the viewer simply don't know the ao animations for some reason
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: though that would surprise me
[11:18]  Andrew Hellershanks: DSL -> Damn Small Linux ;-)
[11:18]  Adelle Fitzgerald: but others, OSgrid regions and some that are colocated int he same DC as OSGrid, are all pretty good
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I have to say, it would be really good if a viewer-dev could give us the low down on what its doing
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: and why
[11:18]  Arielle Popstar: you see differences between the viewers Adelle?
[11:19]  Adelle Fitzgerald: I'll see if I can get in touch with one fo the Firestorm devs
[11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: Can you disable viewer AO and if so, does the activity go away?
[11:19]  Adelle Fitzgerald: not sure Arielle, I only use FS and the old Imp 1.4
[11:19]  Adelle Fitzgerald: on Imp 1.4 its fine
[11:19]  Arielle Popstar: FS handles ao differently from singularity
[11:19]  Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha
[11:19]  Arielle Popstar: singularity is more like IMp
[11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: Impy has built-in AO?
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry I missed some convo - singularity doesnt drag down the whole inventory for its ao like firestorm?
[11:20]  Adelle Fitzgerald: it would be nice for viewers to have an option to load inventory before firing the AO
[11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks never used it so doesn't remember seeing it there
[11:20]  Adelle Fitzgerald: the old 1.4 does Andrew
[11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: k
[11:20]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i dont think its in Kokua though
[11:20]  Arielle Popstar: Singularity didnt fire ao till after inventory loaded
[11:20]  Arielle Popstar: i actually was in their channel complaining about that :)
[11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:21]  Adelle Fitzgerald: toilet rolls? lol
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: has the flying spaghetti monster come at last
[11:21]  Andrew Hellershanks: um... is something or someone trying to TP this area?
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah no, the flying toilet roll monster
[11:21]  Andrew Hellershanks: TP -> toilet paper
[11:21]  Arielle Popstar: because even in singularity i found inventory was sometimes slow to load
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: well I think one problem we have with inventory ive seen
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: is if your inventory is downloading
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: and you start searching for things
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: it can really get clogged up bad
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, yeah. That will lock up inventory load. I've seen that.
[11:22]  Adelle Fitzgerald: yes, just as if you click the 'expand' button
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: a lot of people will try to search to get it going again
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: and sometimes that works
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: but most of the time it really just makes it worse
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: we-ell, I hear the lindens are suppoed to be doing a load of http work - I'm not sure if that would cover this kind of thing
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: cycle through the alphabet
[11:23]  Adelle Fitzgerald: sometimes clicking the expand button in FS does give it a kick
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: or whether the problem here is really opensim not being able to serve inventory requests efficiently enough at this point
[11:23]  Arielle Popstar: i still find it problematic at slower regions
[11:23]  Adelle Fitzgerald: but also, disabling HTTP inventory a=for a couple of seconds and re-enabling it again also helps
[11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: the fastest way i have seen to kick inventory into gear
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: or whether the issue is with viewers requesting inventory very aggressively
[11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: is to right click "My Inventory"
[11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: just once
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: or the old inventory version folder numbering problem which is still present for 0.7.4
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: though i have 42297 items in my inventory
[11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: which problem is that?
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: and i rarely see problems
[11:24]  Adelle Fitzgerald: could the issue be with the opensim internal webserver?
[11:24]  Adelle Fitzgerald: too many requests clogging it up?
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: in 0.7.4, the folder version numbering the viewer was expecting did not match what was (not) done by opensim
[11:24]  Teravus Ousley: I'm still seeing 'missing people' that gets solved when the user rebakes. It happens occasionally. :)
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: hence the numbers mismatched and the viewer could not use its inventory data cache
[11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: justin, ok
[11:25]  BlueWall Slade: I remember soem issues with the maps - it's like we are limiting the output of the buffer, but not the input
[11:25]  Teravus Ousley: attachment syndrome
[11:25]  BlueWall Slade: in some cases, thousands of maptiles would hit the input, while the output throttles them back
[11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: if that was still in 74 has it been fixed in 75?
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: it's a link in the chain - if the inventory service is slow then that naturally slows things down
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: and yes, it could be that opensim needs to better throttle invnetory requests. Basically, lots of links in the chain
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes
[11:26]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i was referring to the webserver in opensim.exe
[11:26]  Adelle Fitzgerald: not robust
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: well yes, the c# webserver could also be slow, though I doubt that's the reason here
[11:26]  Arielle Popstar: one thing i notice and wonder about is why my inventory has to reload several thousand items each time i log in
[11:26]  Adelle Fitzgerald: ok, cool
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: yes - I would expect the viewer to be able to resuse cached inventory data
[11:27]  Arielle Popstar: in S/L it doesnt have to do that
[11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: huh ? is your cahce big enough. thats anyway good to rezz textures faster
[11:27]  Arielle Popstar: here it does it consistently
[11:27]  Adelle Fitzgerald: mine doesnt, Arielle. but it does seem to 'top up' on the last 2000-3000 items
[11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: this days best to use 2GB cache is my experience
[11:27]  Arielle Popstar: thats what i mean adelle
[11:27]  Dahlia Trimble: Ive had a module that hit the c# server really hard and it was very fast
[11:27]  Adelle Fitzgerald: well I say last, i have no idea if they are the last or not :)
[11:27]  Arielle Popstar: not a complete load but a top up
[11:27]  Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha, yes I experience that too
[11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: the simulator's c# webserver?
[11:28]  Dahlia Trimble: yes
[11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: ok zen is 1GB cache now
[11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: with more than one avatar on the region?
[11:28]  BlueWall Slade: the person that wrote out https server has a new one, but it rides on a network stack developed by him as well
[11:28]  Dahlia Trimble: hundreds of requests a second
[11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: Inventory load also means accessing information from a database.
[11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: interesting.
[11:28]  Adelle Fitzgerald: is that bad BlueWall?
[11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, that's the further link in the chain
[11:28]  BlueWall Slade: well, it adds a layer
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: wrote his own network stack? sounds wild
[11:29]  Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha
[11:29]  BlueWall Slade: who knows if it is better that the distributed one?
[11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: good change that the network stack gives lots of headaces.
[11:29]  Teravus Ousley has intimate knowledge of the current one..
[11:29]  Andrew Hellershanks: sounds like it, Richardus
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: what we really need is better stats to get a sense of how well things like the inventory service are responding
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: will hopefully get to that one day
[11:30]  Teravus Ousley would rather not have intimate knowledge of the current one...
[11:30]  BlueWall Slade sees Teravus hanging on with the mono guys when he visits that channel
[11:30]  Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: the old when you get "a round tuit". :-)
[11:30]  Arielle Popstar: :)
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: indeed
[11:30]  Hiro Protagonist: I guess making a round tuit and passing it to Justin would probably be in poor taste LOL
[11:30]  Teravus Ousley: I was hanging around with the mono guys.. until my computer got hit with a forced Microsoft Update
[11:31]  Arielle Popstar: we should clone Justin
[11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: delay the update
[11:31]  Teravus Ousley: I clicked the delay button.. I swear.. but I actually hit the restart now button :/
[11:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hiro, I remember seeing a round tuit in RL some years ago
[11:31]  Hiro Protagonist: me too Andrew
[11:31]  Hiro Protagonist: in a curio shop I think
[11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: Round tuit images ->
[11:32]  Hiro Protagonist: lolol
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: ha, that's a thing
[11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: The second one is the one I remember seeing.
[11:32]  Teravus Ousley: anyone know what causes the missing people? You know.. where the shape is invisible.. but you see their hair sometimes and attachments?
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: no, that's odd - not something that I've seen myself
[11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting as usually you see a cloud for a person before you would see them as invisible.
[11:33]  Hiro Protagonist: it seems to be a load realted thing to me
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: and it doesn't fix itself after a while?
[11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: misisng people ?
[11:33]  Teravus Ousley: When they rebake, they rez.. but it doesn't by itself
[11:33]  Adelle Fitzgerald: using a non-mesh viewer to view mesh avatars?
[11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: oh thats just cloud avatar
[11:33]  Arielle Popstar: some viewers do it that whereas others present them as clouds
[11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: most viewers replaced that for invisiblke avatar with hair.
[11:34]  Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: there is an opensim switch (on by default) to resend appearance uuids every minute
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: so if that's not fixing it then maybe it's some issue with the initial baked texture themselves....
[11:34]  Arielle Popstar: also FS has toggle to render unloaded avatars
[11:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I wonder if I could sell round tuit's in a grid.
[11:34]  Teravus Ousley: Mine presents them as clouds sometimes and invisible people sometimes :)
[11:34]  Teravus Ousley: It lists the invisible people as 'gray'
[11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont see any clouds here today
[11:35]  Teravus Ousley: it lists the clouds as 'cloud'
[11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: or gray avatars
[11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have seen invisble people a times but I don't remember which viewer I was using when that happens.
[11:35]  Arielle Popstar: no me either
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: would be interesting to know what "appearance show <avatar-name>" if one had console acccess
[11:35]  Hiro Protagonist: Firestorm for me
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: which viewer is this with?
[11:35]  Teravus Ousley: Firestorm
[11:35]  Hiro Protagonist: seen some other weirdness too
[11:35]  Arielle Popstar: look for the render unloaded avatar toggle
[11:36]  Hiro Protagonist: like Clauda Sanz walking in place for LBSA
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: that sounds like a stuck animation
[11:36]  Hiro Protagonist: when in a different viewer she is sitting running idle sit anims
[11:36]  Arielle Popstar: yes me too Hiro whereas she was sitting for others
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: I recently added some commands to the console that can tell you the current anim sequence
[11:36]  Hiro Protagonist: nods
[11:36]  Teravus Ousley: It happened for me this morning in bulletsim during the testing.. immediately after the region restarted the first time.
[11:36]  Arielle Popstar: sounds similar to Dan's T-pose which i have not seen in ages
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: "show animations <avatar-name>"
[11:36]  Hiro Protagonist: I shall have a look at that
[11:37]  Hiro Protagonist: next time I see it
[11:37]  Hiro Protagonist: it happens every now and again
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: hm... could an avatar become invisible if their animation wasn't loaded?
[11:37]  Teravus Ousley: appearance show avatarname :)
[11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that will tell you the sequence that was transmitted to viewers
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks thinks that shouldn't affect general appearance
[11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: no, you would see t-pose instead
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: right
[11:37]  Hiro Protagonist: we're seeing that from time to time too come to mention it
[11:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: I saw that here last week
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: I fixed a bug dan submitted about that last fri
[11:38]  Hiro Protagonist: thta usually self repairs when they move
[11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: t pose still happens
[11:38]  Hiro Protagonist: kk
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: probably linked with client ao
[11:38]  Hiro Protagonist: nods
[11:38]  Hiro Protagonist: FS has the extensive client AO
[11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes - there was definitely a recent regression with that up until fri
[11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: Ok, I'll let you know if it doesnt fade away shortly
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: I probably need to get a new OSgrid release out pretty soon
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: I think our latest release has that
[11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: its been a few days since I have seen it, it might well be fixed on the plazas
[11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: though im not 100% sure
[11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: justin, how far do you think 0.7.5 is away ? where now in RC1
[11:40]  Arielle Popstar: any more work on groups?
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: soon as the thermometer pops out
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.5 will be shortly. I may do RC2 on fri with a few further patches or I may just risk going straight out with 0.7.5
[11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: :P
[11:40]  Hiro Protagonist: groups is thirdparty Ari
[11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: ok. so lets say march.. possible sooner
[11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I was supposed to be doing the second part of attachments to group notices but my desktop needs a new power supply so I haven't been doing much in the way of OS development.
[11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: -
[11:41]  Andrew Hellershanks needs to find a supply soon
[11:41]  Arielle Popstar: i'll send you one ;)
[11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: you still have not one andrew. och !
[11:41]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I get tired of digging through specs, so i go off and do other things.
[11:42]  logger sewell: geeks has them on sale for about 17 usd this week
[11:42]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm power supply is mot simple part of pc. :O
[11:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: I wanted to get one from a local Best Buy store but I'm not seeing much that is suitable.
[11:42]  Richardus Raymaker: loger, that sounds not as good one
[11:42]  Arielle Popstar: go to tiger direct and pick one
[11:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to pay more than I wanted (more than $100) or go elsewhere.
[11:42]  Arielle Popstar: best buy sucks
[11:42]  logger sewell: a cheafton 450
[11:42]  Richardus Raymaker: yeah i kow a 750watt atx2.2 is nice
[11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: $100 ?? hmm here we can buy good ones for around 60 euro
[11:43]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, no TD near me. It would be awkward to get from them and cost more $ if I had to ship the item back if it wouldn't work for me.
[11:43]  logger sewell: i have a 750 i bought last year and it has done very well
[11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: the chances of you having to ship back would be pretty slim I would have thought
[11:43]  Arielle Popstar: canadacomputers?
[11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: buy computer parst oline. neve rgood idea
[11:43]  Arielle Popstar: they are reasonable and must be close in your area
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: justin, Depends on how much time I spend trying to make sure I get one that will work..
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: I always buy everything online - and often off ebay
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: pretty much every power supply will work, unless you're building some humungous gaming rig
[11:44]  Teravus Ousley does too.. hasn't had an issue except one hard drive that got really hot
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: I see supplies with 4 +12V lines and those lines are <= 20A each and my video cards needs at least 19A on +12 so a lot of multi-rail supplies wouldn't be suitable.
[11:44]  Richardus Raymaker: must be me...
[11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: well... video card says it wants a supply with +19A min on +12V
[11:45]  Teravus Ousley usually gets them from amazon or newegg
[11:46]  Andrew Hellershanks: My machine is on a lot so I'm also trying to get one that is 80% efficient
[11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: frys
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: well anyway - any other opensim topics today?
[11:46]  Andrew Hellershanks: frys is uk.
[11:46]  Teravus Ousley does't have frys around here
[11:46]  BlueWall Slade: frys is a bad mane for electronic gear
[11:46]  BlueWall Slade: name
[11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: why?
[11:46]  Teravus Ousley used to go to frys when he was in Cali
[11:46]  Hiro Protagonist: great place to get it if you can though
[11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, you might get to leave early today. :-)
[11:47]  BlueWall Slade: (fries/smoke, etc.)
[11:47]  Dahlia Trimble lives close to a frys
[11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL I thought someone had found a prim spma sploit and its teravus ousley
[11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: i just look at corsair as example and there i read something abput 38amp@12volt
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm still in my dressing gown
[11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: *prim spam
[11:47]  Teravus Ousley: heh
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: my schedule got seriously screwed up by a fridge delivery
[11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: frys a bad name (as in that is what the gear from them does)? hehe
[11:47]  Teravus Ousley: It's a TP projectile from the sandbox.
[11:47]  BlueWall Slade: I bougth my first NVIDIA card at WalMart
[11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: Ahh
[11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: i think all modern power supplys give more then 19amp
[11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: it's maintining a physics profile after crossing the region border?
[11:48]  Teravus Ousley: nope, there's a 1 hour sandbox in the middle of WP
[11:48]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I seen some supplies with 4 +12V lines that were each at around 18A
[11:48]  Hiro Protagonist: ahhh ok
[11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: could you not at least use not recycled paper ?
[11:48]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL RiRa
[11:48]  Teravus Ousley: It's *tough* to aim and get them here...
[11:48]  Hiro Protagonist: Heh I bet ;)
[11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: andrew. hmm..
[11:49]  Arielle Popstar: 1111 Davis Drive Unit 9-10, Newmarket,
[11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks thinks justin is going to wear a whole in the floor
[11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: testing for trubberbanding - I'm impressed not a lot even though opensim is chewing through memory
[11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:50]  Hiro Protagonist: Thanks Teravus, I shall now be a holy terror lol
[11:50]  Teravus Ousley: You're going to need to stick TP in the TPer. The one that comes in there.. is no mod because of the script.
[11:50]  Teravus Ousley: so you shoot it once, and out goes the only copy :)
[11:51]  Hiro Protagonist: Heh
[11:51]  Hiro Protagonist: Well I do have these really impressive artillery pieces...
[11:51]  Arielle Popstar: i have sucked up 400 MB of bandwidth from Osgrid since i got here
[11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, what is in newmarket?
[11:52]  Arielle Popstar: Canada Computers
[11:52]  Teravus Ousley: :) you could use them if you want :) TP could be anything.
[11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh. used to be one not that far from me. Wasn't sure if they were still around
[11:52]  Teravus Ousley is partial to streaming rolls of Toilet paper/bathroom tissue :)
[11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks might need to have someone drive him to a store
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: two meanings of tp
[11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: grab a copy Ter
[11:53]  Arielle Popstar:
[11:53]  Arielle Popstar: reasonably priced and good selection
[11:53]  Teravus Ousley grabs a copy
[11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: that thing is hella fun
[11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: who ever is going to buy a cpu thast 570$ alone ?
[11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: no idea. That's just nuts
[11:54]  Adelle Fitzgerald: umm, i paid $400 for my cpu lol
[11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: thats not even on the high end either
[11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, sorry. CPU. yeah, that's ok. I thought you means power supply
[11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: the extreme hexa i7 is over 1000$
[11:55]  Teravus Ousley does comment on CPU price...
[11:55]  Adelle Fitzgerald: oh PSU for that much, naaah
[11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: thats compleet nuts neb.
[11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen some that were expensive PSU's
[11:55]  Teravus Ousley has a hexa i7...
[11:55]  Adelle Fitzgerald: my psu was about $110
[11:56]  Adelle Fitzgerald: whats a hexa?
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: 6 core
[11:56]  Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh
[11:56]  Dahlia Trimble: mmmm moar cores
[11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: 1200W power supply for $380
[11:56]  Adelle Fitzgerald: can you get 6 cores with HT?
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: you going to SLi?
[11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: err... $350.
[11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: the only need for 1000 watt is 2 video cards
[11:56]  Teravus Ousley: It shows up as 12 cores in Windows
[11:56]  Adelle Fitzgerald: so yeah, it has HT
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: the 660 GTX Nvidia only requires a 500 watt
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: a 680 only needs like 650
[11:57]  Richardus Raymaker: ok hex core would be nice. but then one thats doing 3.6Ghz / core
[11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... that would be fun to boot in linux and see 12 penguins
[11:57]  Adelle Fitzgerald: what if you run two, Neb? need minimum 1000w?
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: the old box had dual hexa xeons
[11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: 24 threads
[11:57]  Adelle Fitzgerald: O.o
[11:57]  Arielle Popstar: saves buying a space heater
[11:58]  Teravus Ousley: my computers only act as space heaters when the video cards are fully active
[11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: and here I am trying to get opensim to run reasonably on shitty dual core boxes :0
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: with V1
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: i don't have any dual core boxes anymore
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: i have 3 quads
[11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, That's all I have in my desktop machine. Core 2 Duo
[11:58]  Adelle Fitzgerald: thats actually not a bad thing Justin
[11:58]  Teravus Ousley: I have one dual core box :)
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: virtually dual core boxes, admittedly
[11:59]  Arielle Popstar: oh mine are dual core and with a mid range vid card run everything max
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ah well if were counting VMs
[11:59]  Adelle Fitzgerald: get it to work nice on a slow machine and will work wonders on a fast machine :)
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it provides an impetus to improve efficiency
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: then i have like 25 Dual cores
[11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:59]  Teravus Ousley: Intel Pentium D man :)
[11:59]  BlueWall Slade: I have an amd dual core
[11:59]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i still have an old P4 lol
[11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: as long you can buy seperate cpu and mainboard i switch slowly to intel side
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Tervaus, I still have a Pentium II 266MHz machine. Not that I've fired it up in quite a while.
[11:59]  Adelle Fitzgerald: takes 10 minutes to start some sims
[12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: somebody need 486 ?
[12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: lol
[12:00]  Teravus Ousley: my comparable AMD to your P4 has bit the dust.
[12:00]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i think I have one of those in my watch, Richardus
[12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and do some stuff. Thanks for the convo folks - see you later
[12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: cya, justin
[12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
[12:00]  Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Justin, TC
[12:00]  Teravus Ousley: ttyl justincc, thanks for the info
[12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: be carefull with fridges
[12:00]  logger sewell: dont laugh the 486 was a great machine in it's day :-)
[12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: the can have mosnters inside
[12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey waves
[12:00]  Arielle Popstar: heh most smart phones are more powerful then the old lappy i use for test regions
[12:00]  logger sewell: tc Justin
[12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: make sure your fridge has at least 3 cores
[12:01]  Teravus Ousley: I had a 486 DX 100 with a math co-processor :)
[12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm i have 2 486 i now remeber. someone gave me laptop to and 1 mainboard
[12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[12:01]  Teravus Ousley: It played MP3's .. but only in half duplex :)
[12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: I remember when I was able to get a 486 motherboard to upgrade a 386 machine at a place I used to work at.
[12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: m...p...3.... ?
[12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, you prefer ogg?
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: flac
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm. good question. i use so many formats
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: or lossless wma
[12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks uses MP3's on his Palm based PDA
[12:02]  logger sewell: well i have to scoot ya'l have a good rest of the day
[12:02]  Adelle Fitzgerald: alright, im outa here, need to go get some food
[12:02]  Adelle Fitzgerald: take care everyone :)
[12:02]  Teravus Ousley uses whatever apple feeds him with the purchase
[12:02]  Arielle Popstar: waves
[12:02]  Teravus Ousley: ok, take care
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks for coming guys :)
[12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: I should go do something constructive
[12:02]  logger sewell is Offline
[12:02]  Adelle Fitzgerald: byeee!
[12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: (like look again for a power supply) :-)
[12:03]  Arielle Popstar whispers: spec out more PSU"S?
[12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: it cant be so hard andrew..
[12:03]  Dahlia Trimble: time for me to poof too. bye all :)
[12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: I could try amazon as a family member has an account with them.
[12:03]  Teravus Ousley: It's probably time for me to poof 3.
[12:03]  Teravus Ousley: :)
[12:03]  Master Dubrovna: Back to work...Good day all
[12:03]  Arielle Popstar whispers: WAVES
[12:03]  Teravus Ousley: That's right.. btw
[12:04]  BlueWall Slade: me too - see you all next week
[12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: bye who leaves
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, plenty of supplies. I found 13 at Best Buy. Some I couldn't find detailed specs for, Others didn't have the connectors I needed, some don't have at least 19A on +12V lines, others aren't >=80% EFFICIENT
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: oops
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: finger hit the caps lock
[12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: Then I'm also looking for one that is rated as average power and not peak power.
[12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: alrighty guys i need to hop over to a standalone for a bit i'll be on IRC if you need me
[12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: Hiro not sure if you realize but your not on IRC anymore
[12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:05]  Arielle Popstar: tc Neb
[12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: cya, nebadon
[12:05]  Arielle Popstar: check out the sandbox
[12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya
[12:06]  Nebadon Izumi is Offline
[12:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: Startech 530W ATXPower530 is a possible candidate but that better be average power and not peak.
[12:06]  Arielle Popstar: hard to tell
[12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: ok jumping out to here. bye startech. sounds not as a brand.
[12:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: ATX2Power...
[12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: also check combined power to
[12:06]  Arielle Popstar: truth in advertising is not a big factor in PSU's
[12:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: Startech has 4 +12V lines at 20A each
[12:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, nope.
[12:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: That's why I'm also trying to pick a supply for which I can get a proper independant review where they really put the supply to the test.
[12:07]  Hiro Protagonist: time for me to fly. See y'all next time.
[12:07]  Arielle Popstar: nod
[12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[12:08]  Arielle Popstar: tc Hiro
[12:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: A place like tomshardware takes them apart and also tests them to destruction.
[12:08]  Arielle Popstar: can drive one crazy shopping
[12:08]  Arielle Popstar: i often just give up and just buy something that is close
[12:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I know what you mean. I like to go to a store, find what I want, buy it and leave.
[12:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't like spending hours searching around. In and out and back home again.
[12:09]  Arielle Popstar: me too
[12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey folks. Do any of you have the transcript of the meeting handy?
[12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe. i wish i could. but shops dont have anothing anymore. pretty empty wrong stuff.
[12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't get it all with my old viewer crash
[12:10]  Arielle Popstar: but with online shopping and specing it makes it too tempting to spend hours and hours shopping
[12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: stopp useing that one :P
[12:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: Give me a sec, Justin. I have it back to the top of 11am
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