Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-18

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[10:50] Gennifer Eros: Hey neb
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[10:50] Gennifer Eros: Good job with the move
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: thanks :)
[10:51] Arielle Popstar: get the issue with radams sim sorted?
[10:51] Gennifer Eros: From my persepctive apart from having to restart my server because of errors it looked faultless
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: not yet Arielle
[10:52] Arielle Popstar: did you as atest covert to ode and see if the issue was the sae?
[10:53] Gennifer Eros: Hello dubrovna
[10:53] Master Dubrovna: Hi Gennifer
[10:53] Gennifer Eros: Hey richardus
[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: hi gennifer
[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: hi. still try to figure out why that wright is triggering my virusscanner with that url. only happens on wright
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: odd Richardus
[10:57] Gennifer Eros: Hey viv
[10:57] Vivian Klees: hey Gen
[10:58] Vivian Klees: hello everyoe
[10:58] Vivian Klees: one*
[10:58] BlueWall.Slade Hello
[10:58] Arielle Popstar: Hi Viv
[10:58] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, tried your racer on bullet neb. it works but the car sinks in the ground. so i go soon update my sandbox.
[10:58] Master Dubrovna: Hi Vivian
[10:59] Master Dubrovna: Hello everyone
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi master
[10:59] Arielle Popstar: Hi Blue and Dubro
[10:59] BlueWall.Slade Hi
[10:59] Master Dubrovna: How did the bulletsim testing go this morning?
[11:00] Mike Kayaker: Hey Richardus, I tried to get to the bulletsim office hours this morning, could not TP there all morning.
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I need to get a new OSgrid release posted with the new bulletsim stuff
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya the Bulletsim test did not go well
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: Robert is trying to figure out what is wrong
[11:00] Master Dubrovna: Ya I tried to tp there too but could not
[11:00] Vivian Klees: could it be a concurrency issue?
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: I really don't know what it could be
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: been a long time since i saw a sim behave that way
[11:01] Vivian Klees: Hi Taarna
[11:01] Taarna Welles: Hello Peeps :)
[11:01] BlueWall.Slade should consider the "buffer bloat"
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: the office hours are out of my window. so cant visit
[11:01] Gennifer Eros: Hello taarna
[11:01] Vivian Klees: hi Robert
[11:02] BlueWall.Slade where packets get buffered on busy networks until they timeout, etc.
[11:02] Robert Adams: hello all
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Robert
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
[11:02] BlueWall.Slade Hi Robert
[11:02] Master Dubrovna: Hi
[11:02] BlueWall.Slade Hi Justin
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: got your network problems sorted out?
[11:02] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin and Andrew
[11:02] Gennifer Eros: Hello robert and justin
[11:02] Arielle Popstar: Hi Robert
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hiyas
[11:02] Vivian Klees: one thing I've noticed is like a presence issue after the logout from bulletsim
[11:02] Gennifer Eros: And andrew :)
[11:02] BlueWall.Slade Hi
[11:03] Robert Adams: not yet... but I have found other people who keep dropping Skype connections... so it might get looked at :)
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle and Gennifer
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey smiles
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi taarna
[11:03] Robert Adams: when BulletSim went down this morning is was in an interesting state... it said people were there but they were not and such like
[11:03] Robert Adams: a real mess
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, forgot about the bullet meeting. I have a vehicle to test there
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: went down?
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean the region?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: well hopefully next week it will go better
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: or next meeting
[11:04] Vivian Klees: next week is xmas
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya heh
[11:04] Mike Kayaker: But the world will end before the next meting!
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: we have 3 weeks to figure it out
[11:05] Gennifer Eros: Alledgedly
[11:05] Arielle Popstar: beginning of the end
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: Mike, the did not say wich world
[11:05] Gennifer Eros: lol
[11:05] BlueWall.Slade Robert - is Mic involved?
[11:05] Hiro Protagonist: what do we have to figure out within three weeks?
[11:06] Hiro Protagonist: and Hi all :)
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi hiro...
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade Hi
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: oh why BulletSim region ran so poorly today
[11:06] Robert Adams: involved with what, BlueWall?
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: whats in 3 weeks ?
[11:06] Gennifer Eros: They said the world would end with the Y2K bug as well lol
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: Hi Hiro
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade with the BulletSim
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: there wont be any more meetings for 3 weeks
[11:06] Hiro Protagonist: oh ok heh
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade << the network
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so we have 3 weeks to figure it out
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:06] Hiro Protagonist: that's not the end of the year
[11:06] Hiro Protagonist: that's dec 21
[11:06] Hiro Protagonist: in 3 days
[11:06] Robert Adams: yes... he's the one with dropped Skype connections
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: 3 weeks? YOu mean three days?
[11:06] Gennifer Eros: I know
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i mean we dont have meetings because of christmas and new years both land on tuesday this year
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade he looked into "Buffer Bloat" about a year ago
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: <shakes the box of confusion a bit more>
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: right. If the world doesn't end before then. ;-)
[11:07] Hiro Protagonist: heh, the end of the year is not 3 weeks either, dunno what I was thinkin there
[11:07] Arielle Popstar: if you toggle the same region to Ode it still has the same behaviour?
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade where packets get lost in huge equipment buffers
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade just an idea*
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I will probablyi be around on new year's day but definitely not xmas
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: could that explain maby the slow assets to ?
[11:07] Vivian Klees: too many will have hangovers
[11:07] Hiro Protagonist: I think if we have any real 'end of' issues, its 'end of humantiy', and the world will get on just fine without us lol
[11:08] Gennifer Eros: lol
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: were you able to get to the plaza console ok Justin?
[11:08] Taarna Welles: I uninstall RL before that day :)
[11:08] Arielle Popstar: just need to get sucked into a virtual world and pray it doesnt crash ;)
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: haven't treid yet - having to deal with other things
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe I'll try quickly now
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, I checked primset link numbers while sitting on the prims in SL and OS and I saw no change in the prim numbers.
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: just make surew you have npc clone on closed other sim arielle
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: were you sitting on the root prim Andrew?
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, RIchardus
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: in what circumstance?
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I think the only time there is a problem is if you sit on a child prim
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, hm... the problem only happens for sitting on root?
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: no its fine if your on root
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is sitting on child prims
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I was sitting on a child prim
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: k
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya its pretty perplexing as to what is actually wrong
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I need to keep reminding Melanie about her extracting patches
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: now that Forge is moved I can annoy her about other things
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:12] Mike Kayaker: Did you see my note in the Mantis that some of the stting issues are fixed in AVN?
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: oh btw Justin, you saw my message about DNS?
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: cool
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that when i get an opportunity later on today
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: thanks
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: its a weird move the dropped the download option. it maby betetr for bandwidth. but it split things on force
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: mike: yes - I thought I mentioned to you that this was the case? Melanie says she will extract the fix and apply to opensim but this hard to do as the changes are quite large
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: so I'm sure Nebadon will keep reminding her :) If it doesn't happen I will probably revist the issue myself
[11:13] Mike Kayaker: Yes, after you mentioned it, I went and tested and reported success!
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: though I would rather spend my time on problems which no-one has a fix for
[11:14] Gennifer Eros: I still have no fix for my inter server tp problems
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: ?!
[11:14] Gennifer Eros: I cant tp between regions on my server
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hooh, how much problems do we get with the server side avatar bakeing that SL is goinbg to use soon ?
[11:15] Hiro Protagonist: set the external hostname to the IP address of your internet facing interface
[11:15] Hiro Protagonist: instead of
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: If viewers continue to allow the existing method then none
[11:15] Gennifer Eros: It is set to the domain name
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: i really dont know what viewers are going todo. phoenix is dead for sl..
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Justin, from what i have heard it will not
[11:16] Hiro Protagonist: set each to the IP address
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the word is if you do not log into SL with the new viewer
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you will only see either a gas cloud or a grey avatar outline
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: yes..
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: we can't use the new sl viewer anyway, so then it depends on what other viewers do
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: but thats because the viewer is missing new code. but what happend with the old code ?
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would be good to have but I've no idea on timeframe
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it comes down to will any of the TPVs move that old code forward
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: won't server side baking add load on the server end?
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know between now and 8 weeks LL go to new system
[11:17] BlueWall.Slade heh, that's all they need
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: Things are harder now because it's not possible to directly use the sl viewer
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there is a way to use it
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: unofficially
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but a real pita
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it makes it so you cant log into SL anymore
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Just what SL needs. More load on the server end to help lag things even more.
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it will be a while before we really have to worry about that
[11:18] Gennifer Eros: Thats good as more might come here lol
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I would rather wait and see how the introduction goes with sl and then do something about it
[11:19] BlueWall.Slade ++
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: from what Dahlia says, the basic code exists to do the baking already in libomv
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, i see the same type of lag SL or opensim.. the sim load lag.
[11:19] Hiro Protagonist: I dont see where we really have to worry about it, existing viewers will continue to work for us
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: see how much people complain about it in SL :-)
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya wouldnt be the 1st time LL implement something then reverse course after it goes horribly wrong
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: if so, it would bve a case of incorporating that into the simulator
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: exactly
[11:19] Vivian Klees: their economy is really showing signs of tanking now
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: The only trick is making sure OpenJpeg works OK every time :)
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: Hiro as example. zen, singularity, etc. posisble the drop old code ?
[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: they might RiRa but it wont apply to versions they've already released
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: singularity said they wouldnt
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: so we got stuck with bad viewer versions at the end. becuse upgrade = trouble
[11:21] Gennifer Eros: Always does
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i think to arielle
[11:21] Fearghus McMahon: hi all
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we do want server-side baking because it can simplify other things, but I don't think it's super-critical
[11:21] Taarna Welles: Hi Fearghus
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: though if all viewers abandoned the existing code then it would becomes a lot higher priority, I am sure :)
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: :)
[11:22] Teravus Ousley: No more no pants weekends
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: lets first see what happens in that other world
[11:22] Arielle Popstar: well doubtfull that the opensim versions would drop it
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: appearance seems to work better these days, though I'm sure there are still a lot of issues for ppl who teleport or cross between sims a lot
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, still many times cloud problems
[11:23] Gennifer Eros: Actually I am seeing less problems justin
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: it is better
[11:23] Hiro Protagonist: yup
[11:23] Gennifer Eros: Yes I agree arielle
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: its better. but not perfect :O
[11:24] Vivian Klees: name a program that is
[11:24] Gennifer Eros: Life aint perfect lol
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: really, I would like to get things like multi-attachments working but I have been hammered for time over the last quarters
[11:25] Arielle Popstar: yes muulti would be nice
[11:25] Sarah Kline: People are getting into the habit of rebaking when they arrive
[11:25] Sarah Kline: pity viewer doesnt do it automatically
[11:25] Gennifer Eros: I usually dont have to anymore here but do in sl
[11:26] Fearghus McMahon: sorry for off topic....but grats on the quick move guys
[11:26] Gennifer Eros: I already beat you to that fearghus :)
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: yes - that was a quick one!
[11:27] Fearghus McMahon: :)
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how are the new servers going?
[11:27] Gennifer Eros: It went very smooth from my perspective
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: going very well Justin
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the transition really could not have gone any better
[11:27] Robert Adams: 21 agents here and not a flicker of a problem
[11:27] Gennifer Eros: Although I did have to resart all my regions lol
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i botched a few minor details, but nothing that i couldnt fix within a few minutes of realizing what was wrong
[11:27] Hiro Protagonist: Hiya Pathfinder and Welcome :)
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: hi pathfinder
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: why geniifer, what happend ?
[11:28] Pathfinder.Lester howdy :)
[11:28] Sarah Kline: Hello Pathfinder
[11:28] Arielle Popstar: Hi Pathfinder
[11:28] Gennifer Eros: Hello pathfinder
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: hello p[athfinder
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: LLVOAvatar::onBakedTextureMasksLoaded: onBakedTextureMasksLoaded(): unexpected image id: 361a73b4-ecc9-4dbc-91e6-e7170e8de83f
[11:29] Gennifer Eros: Hello dahlia
[11:29] Vivian Klees: hi Dahlia
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I think viewers are going to continue being an issue for opensim in the coming years
[11:29] Fearghus McMahon: I just restartd my sims today just to be on the safe side...other then that i hardly noticed a thing about the transition....granted i was at work pretending to be busy ;)
[11:30] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:30] Fearghus McMahon: will it become a bigger issue you thing Justin?
[11:30] Gennifer Eros: I saw quite a few errors on mine
[11:30] Fearghus McMahon: err think i mean
[11:30] Gennifer Eros: But the restart fixed them all
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: realistically, LL still drives viewer development and that will continue to cause issues for opensim
[11:31] Fearghus McMahon: I noticed firestorm made a split for sl and opensim...which kinda worries me
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: as long LL finanly would fix some anyoing bugs to...
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: worries you?
[11:31] Hiro Protagonist: I think it's more a case of as long as its there, no need to get motivated to do anything else about the viewer
[11:31] Teravus Ousley: One reason that I think they're moving to server side bake.. is because they know that they'll never be able to be rid of older viewer issues really... and older viewer issues will affect overall world appearance even if you're using the supported viewer.
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: how much trouble depends on exactly what LL do
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: i think the issue will be in people wanting what they see available in s/l viewers
[11:32] Robert Adams: the Firestorm split is a good thing... they couldn't support OpenSim without it and, as long as we help them with features/support, they weill continue to support us
[11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          8e8da20: 2012-12-13 01:12:12 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:32] Sarah Kline: agree Robert
[11:32] Hiro Protagonist: Arielle: will become less so as fewer people actually rez there from day 1
[11:32] Fearghus McMahon: well it worries me as in.....if that is needed......and all viewers at least those worth wile are maintained by some point they might drop the one they feel is least "fullfilling" for them
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, the fact they are supporting opensim is good. And yes, we need to work with them where possible
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble agrees with Arielle
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: Aurora got several features in FS because they contributed code
[11:33] Robert Adams: the server side bake "solves" their problems with client graphics drivers
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: but I think we also need to make sure we don't shut out other viewer projects
[11:33] Hiro Protagonist: +1 Justin
[11:33] Gennifer Eros: I use the imp veiwer here
[11:33] Robert Adams: all the client side drivers were different and odd for doing in-buffer rendering
[11:33] Gennifer Eros: And it works just fine
[11:33] Hiro Protagonist: the more the better, hopefully diverse in feature sets and use cases
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes, I'm surprised really they did it that way originally
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: did it what way?
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: client side baking
[11:34] Hiro Protagonist: clientside
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: they didnt used to have baking at all
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than server side - server side would seem much more reliable and consistent
[11:34] Gennifer Eros: All that can do is add lag surely
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: i wish imprudence got replaced. it start to get a problem with mesh use.
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: everything was compisited in real time on the viewers
[11:34] Gennifer Eros: Serverside that is
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: *composited
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: ah, that would make sense then
[11:34] Fearghus McMahon: would serverside baking result in "lighter" clients?
[11:34] Vivian Klees wonders knows anything about the rumor about Nvidia
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: by a little, though not be much I don't think
[11:35] Robert Adams: which of the many rumors is that, Vivian?
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: ha
[11:35] Hiro Protagonist: Viv: I heard the rumour, beyond that, nothing
[11:35] Vivian Klees: Intel buying Nvidia
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: Fearghus. i think less traffic to client
[11:35] Vivian Klees: amd + ati wasn't a good marriage
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: would be a good move for Intel if they could afford it :)
[11:36] Robert Adams: like the government would let that happen
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, rira is right - the simplification of comms interaction is probably the major thing
[11:36] Fearghus McMahon: @vivian....amen to that
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but amd owns ati, right? ;)
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: only fair
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: amd and ati are keeping each other company in the toilet though
[11:36] Fearghus McMahon: amd took over ati yes...and since then the drivers went....hrmmmm
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes, amd buyed ati
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya Ive not seen anything solid on that but the rumours are flying around about the Intel-Nvidia merger
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: i neve rliked ati drivers. amd did not changed much
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i think it would be pretty awesome
[11:37] Arielle Popstar looks over at her broken laptop with Intel/nvidia
[11:37] Fearghus McMahon: i can't update my ati drivers from 12.8 to 12.10....cause then my imprudence goes half invisible....showing no text in comboboxes etc...even though it is there
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: well. build in nvida chipset would be better then intel graphics :)
[11:37] Teravus Ousley thinks the ATI cards are more powerfull.. but NVidia is .. more consistent.
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: download a new viewer?
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: thats what i think to arielle
[11:38] Fearghus McMahon: i like imprudence for the export/import it has
[11:38] Fearghus McMahon: haven't seen one of the new viewers that support that
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: i liking my new $100 ati that runs evrything at max
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: dont some macs come with ati graphics?
[11:38] BlueWall.Slade all the good ati cards are busy generating Bitcoin
[11:38] Vivian Klees: lol Blue
[11:38] Mike Kayaker: LOL
[11:39] Robert Adams: I don't know how to make Firestorm do objects >64m so I use Imprudence for mega-building
[11:39] Teravus Ousley got this version of a macbook pro because it had an NVidia card in it...
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: it cant do more then 4m ?
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, I find the firestorm interface really complex
[11:39] Teravus Ousley: but hey.. MacBook Pros have /two/ cards in them..
[11:39] Basil Sosides: hello Avas
[11:39] Teravus Ousley: one is Intel, the other is.. either ATI or Nvidia
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a major problem of sl is that it doesn't have the simplicity of a minecraft ui
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: I find it... different, like they moved things around to be different
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, im used to firestorm. but waiting for fixt lsl editor and a better installation that dont interferes with firestorm sl
[11:40] Taarna Welles: Hi basil
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Toshiba Qosmios have 2 cards also
[11:40] Teravus Ousley: Intel for the low power
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: they even have SLi versions
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: but the interface is at least consistent, and all the right pieces are there once you know where to look
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, unless there is a new version I don't know about, Imprudence doesn't support mesh
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: eew qosmios.. here bad things about that
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: they are awesome Richardus
[11:40] Robert Adams: I run Firestorm with he "hybrid" interface... V1 interface++
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: they are big though
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: thats the dead intel nvidia i have...qosmio
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: thats why imprudence is not so funny anymore. i use singularity
[11:40] Robert Adams has never moved to the V2 UI
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer are you using?
[11:41] Teravus Ousley is using the ++V2 UI
[11:41] Fearghus McMahon: well imprudence moves to kokua
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: i like the V3 interface.. as long windows positions get stored.
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: you're using firestorm with the phoenix skin?
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: V3 is ok, I use regular LL viewer in SL
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: nicky is still producing builds of kokua
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ive been using Harper
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: because the OpenSim Firestorm doesnt run well for me
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: harper?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and for some reason videos do not play for me in Zen
[11:42] Robert Adams: I'm using 'hybrid'... it's enhanced but way closer to V1 than V2 UI
[11:42] Teravus Ousley hasn't updated to the newer version of Firestorm.
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a modified Firestorm
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: firestorm is kinda slow rendering for me
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: and lots of freezes
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:42] Richardus Raymaker: to say it simpel: viewers are still a nightmare
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly I'm still mainly using either LL 3.3.4 or even LL 1.23
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: i find win8 not good for singularity though
[11:42] Vivian Klees: ing going?
[11:43] Basil Sosides: the OpenSim-Firestorm is Nothing, just Nothing !!!
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully next version of firestorm is better
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, you need to use newer alpha. singularity runs fine on win8
[11:43] Teravus Ousley notes that lkalif wrote a utility to hexedit the loginURI in the current SL viewer..
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: right now for me Harper is the only viewer where everything just works for me
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: For viewers that came from a common base, it is interesting to see how somethings work well in one and not in another
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: in v3 land anyway
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: i was using the latest as of yesterday
[11:43] Sarah Kline: Basil Opensim FS connects here...the SL one doesnt anymore
[11:43] Fearghus McMahon: thanks for the links nebadon
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: 5 crashes and i went back to XP
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: also save and snapshot works fine on alpha. sofar this one works best. the newer one have broken camera or so. Singularity Viewer 1.7.2 (3287)
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Harper is basically firestorm
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert: YOu have the OS version of firestorm and it doesn't handle prims > 64m?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: infact the harper devs are also Firestorm devs
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle ? BSOD ? wich virusscanner ?
[11:44] Robert Adams: ya... it has the SL max baked in...
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: viewer crash to desktop
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: so Firestorm self-forked?
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade AFK...
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: no virus
[11:44] Robert Adams: I haven't found the debug setting to change
[11:44] Taarna Welles: After the meeting I would like to try the Harper viewer.. sounds interesting
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya for some reason in the OpenSim Firestorm prims are pinned at 64m
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, probably a minor detail they overlooked between the two versions
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: strange... no problems with that on nvidia
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it was a mistake that will be fixed in next version
[11:45] Robert Adams: I suspect so, Andrew
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: I spoke to Tank Master about it
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: they dont release versions very often :/
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: they said it will be fixed
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yes unfortunately the next version is sometime next year
[11:45] paulie Flomar: :)
[11:45] Teravus Ousley: I'm not seeing any issues in Firestorm either.. but I'm running at 90-100fps usually
[11:45] Sarah Kline: Feb
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: Dont scare me nebadon.. :) that where a thinker lol
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I have so many problems with the OpenSim Firestorm
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Teravus, depends on the HW I guess
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not building anything > 64m on a side so it won't affect me.
[11:46] Teravus Ousley nods
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Firestorm isn't even my main viewer either.
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: the one that made me stop using it all together was it does not store my username and password
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: everytime i launch it the fields are all blank
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i had to type it all in everytime
[11:46] Mike Kayaker: I got bit by the 64m limit the other day, edited a lerge prim and it shrank...
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: i wish the replaced the lsl editor for a better normal windows based one. all problems solved.
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: for me it took about 3-4 logins before it started saving that and some settings
[11:47] Sarah Kline: Neb if you click the little arrow at the side of the name box all the names appear and you can choose
[11:47] Robert Adams needs vi key bindings for the script editor ;-)
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, that sort of thing is why I'm not using Singularity more instead of CoolVL. Singularity doesn't seem able to save names/passwords for more than one grid.
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, i have the problem that viewers start to interfere with password so the get empty and not stored.
[11:47] Basil Sosides: to splitt the Firestorm in two Versions, THAT WAS FOR SURE AN IDEA FROM LINDENLAB
[11:47] Sarah Kline: it does save them...but right should not be a blank field
[11:47] Hiro Protagonist: +1 RAdams1 :D
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert: hehe.. I'd vote for that
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: because many developers still think shared secondlife folder is good
[11:47] Teravus Ousley: needs C# style intellisense :).. or at the least c++ style intellisense.
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: Sarah, that list was empty
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it was not storing anything
[11:48] Teravus Ousley keeps the wiki open in a second monitor when doing LSL
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i tried everything i completely scrubbed every trace of firestorm from my machine
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: started fresh, still did it
[11:48] Sarah Kline: ok its a problem of various versions installed i think
[11:48] Sarah Kline: ok lol does need fixing anyway
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: Teravbus. copy and pasete everytime is terrible. still cant get used to that. besides only have 1 screen :O
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya I told tank master about every problem I experienced
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and he said that hopefully next version all would be better
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[11:49] Teravus Ousley is just using it as a reference
[11:49] Fearghus McMahon: oh btw...another slightly offtopic question...but in light of the recent move i was reminded of it.....Is there somewhere a sort of tutorial page about regular (preferably automatic) backups regarding a private run opensim?
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: do firestorm have any regular kind of meeting that's not on a weekend?
[11:49] Teravus Ousley doesn't 'copy and paste' much :)
[11:49] Robert Adams: I'm gonna' run... Happy Holiday's to everyone!!
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, did you file bugs for all the items so they don't get forgotten? ;-)
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: Firestorm SL, keeps the password stored pretty good. but singularity seems to lose it this days. zen is sometimes interfere with other logins to i think
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, Robert
[11:49] Hiro Protagonist: Cheers Robert!
[11:49] Sarah Kline: Bye Robert
[11:49] Gennifer Eros: You as well robert
[11:49] Sarah Kline: thanks
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I dont even know where to file Firestorm bugs
[11:49] Teravus Ousley: Happy hollidays Robert
[11:49] Hiro Protagonist is heading out too
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: think it would be good if some opensim people park in their irc channel as a reminder
[11:50] Fearghus McMahon: take care Robert
[11:50] Hiro Protagonist: Cheers everyone!
[11:50] Vivian Klees: bye Robert
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: bye robert
[11:50] Hiro Protagonist waves
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Teravus. how you want to save scripts then with external editor ?
[11:50] Robert Adams: ... and keep playing with those vehicles! I'll be around and working on them.
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I think they have a mantis?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: see you Robert
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble: bye Robert :)
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: I tried that but they never ever talk in there
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: happy holidays robert
[11:50] Teravus Ousley: I'd go with a libOMV proxy
[11:50] Teravus Ousley: :)
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: it is rare Justin
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: i hit it on a good day when Tankmaster fixed an issue for me
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: what channel were you in?
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon:
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: #phoenix and #phoenix-dev
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: I'm seeing a lot of reiterations of baking statements on the console
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: every so often.. 10-15 avatar gray messages come up
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Andrew
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yw
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: viewer or server:? Which viewer?
[11:53] paulie Flomar: Talking of baking, sorry if I missed it, but did anyone talk about LL's server side baking and whether we are interested in implementing it?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we did breifly talk about it Paulie
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and right now were waiting to see how it goes with LL
[11:54] Teravus Ousley thinks it's a good idea honestly...
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: before making any decisions
[11:54] Teravus Ousley: but we can't forget to support older viewers either.
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: hi pauli. uhmm i throwed a ball in this room
[11:54] paulie Flomar: k. I'll catch it in the transcript! :)
[11:54] Teravus Ousley: :)
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: well, anybody can do it - but I personally won't be making any effort until it's important
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble was a proponant of server side baking several years ago
[11:55] Teravus Ousley: the avatar appearance code.. is it is right now is really.. brittle
[11:55] Vivian Klees: Dahlia how's the pathfinding going?
[11:55] Teravus Ousley: so to the person who digs there.. there are monsters... that lurk
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: havent worked on it for a while
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: burnout
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I know how you feel. Really need the xmas break :)
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I will probably have very low activity from tomorrow until very end of december
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, how much time you planning to take off? A day or three? ;-)
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: week and half
[11:56] Sarah Kline: lol
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: nice.
[11:56] Taarna Welles: @Justin, and you deserve it :)
[11:56] Vivian Klees: take a break you all need it
[11:56] Fearghus McMahon: good idea...cause a burnout will take you out of the running for a long time if not carefull
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, ask them to play no music in C#.... with xmas
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I may take a bit of a break. I have some electronics stuff I want to do for a change.
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ha
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: I agree, justin , get some vacation :)
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks may be getting a Raspberry Pi for Christmas
[11:57] Teravus Ousley plugged in an XBox controller into the viewer.. and it.. does weird stuff.
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[11:57] Gennifer Eros: lol
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: RPi sounds fun :)
[11:57] Fearghus McMahon: it's a funny little thing Andrew
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I also have two FPGA development boards to play with.
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: and my AVR development system.
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: ooou more fun :)
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw some neat kinect stuff in the Netherlands. Would be good to actually have that as region modules to support the mssage flow between viewers
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: nice andrew
[11:58] Fearghus McMahon: oh right that was fun to see ey Justin
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Tying a Kinect in with a viewer would be interesting.
[11:59] Fearghus McMahon: still been meaning to hook up my kinect to the pc for months already
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: wish the made kinect for pc much cheaper
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe not this version, but I think the next version would be really interesting to transmit actual facial impressions and hand movements
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: for those who want that
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: 299,- is to much
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: expressions, not impressions
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I have two things I'd like to do with the Kinect I have but the programs use different, conflicting, back end drivers. I haven't set up my Kinect under Linux.
[11:59] Teravus Ousley: It's not 'that exact' to be able to determine finger position and facial expressions..
[11:59] Fearghus McMahon: ey?...why not just buy a power adapter for the xbox one richard and use that one?
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I got my Kinect off eBay for half retail.
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment the system works with completely external servers but that's cumbersome
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: needs a tighter array of IR dots :)
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: still to much andrew....
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need to go off and take care of some things, thanks for the chat folks
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin, happy holidays
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: bye jcc
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: so we won't meet on xmas and not on new year's day either?
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Enjoy your time off, Justin
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: waves
[12:01] Sarah Kline: Bye Justin
[12:01] Teravus Ousley: Two whole weeks
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: which would make the next one tues 8th jan
[12:01] Taarna Welles: Merry Xmas Justin
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: wot no xmas brunch?!
[12:01] Teravus Ousley: Take care Justin
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: does that sound fine to you?
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: have a nice break Justin ;)
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: sounds good too me
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, cool
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Doctor Who Special airing on Christmas Day
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks folks, and I hope you all have a good xmas and happy new year too
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: strange. now i got the alert again. normal only happens when i teleport in only
[12:02] Teravus Ousley hasn't really followed the Who Doctor.
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey waves
[12:02] Taarna Welles: I go off too and I want to try Harper.
[12:02] Fearghus McMahon: anybody here with experience in opensim backups btw?....preferably automizing it?
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks needs a new power supply for his computer soon before it dies completelly
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: tc Justin
[12:02] Gennifer Eros: I do mine manually
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: depends, windows. linux. mysql ?
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Fearghus: Backups at what level? iars? oars? or the database?
[12:03] Arielle Popstar: i have my auto backups in the opensim.db
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: i need to disable the debug window in windows then i can make more tools
[12:03] Fearghus McMahon: well the database i suppose can do with a cron job on linux right?.....but iar's and that also possible to automize?
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: I use sqlite for regions and just copy the .db files now and then
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: uhh arielle ???
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: oars can be automated
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: yep Dahlia :)
[12:04] Teravus Ousley: when i use SQLite, I copy the db every now and again.
[12:04] Teravus Ousley: when I use mySQL, I do backups of the SQL database
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: cron job to invoke a php(?) script to access the right URL's to trigger oar saving
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i mkae oar and sql. automatic
[12:04] Teravus Ousley: .. When I use Microsoft SQL.. I do automatic backups of the database also..
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: made a little C# cosnole tool as interface between batch files and opensim
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: sql can be done automatically via periodic dumps or by having two database servers and using db replication
[12:05] Fearghus McMahon: a php script to do automatic oar?.....with url's? there somewhere i can read up on that?
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: plus a dump of second server
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: mysql you can dump with batch file and scheduler. if you have ore databases
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: the backups get moved to other server andrew
[12:06] Teravus Ousley:
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Fearghus: look at how commands can be issued remotely to OS instances. I think you need to enable the remote console for that.
[12:06] Teravus Ousley: (unrelated)
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: getting more and more complicated
[12:07] Fearghus McMahon: ok thanks Andrew will search on that
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richards, db replication copies data to second server automatically but you can still do db dumps and additional backup.
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: oh. ok thats different setup
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Fearghus: I'm working with a grid that does regular oar bacukps
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richarus, with secondary servers you can take db offline to do backups without affecting primary.
[12:08] Fearghus McMahon: ok thats very interesting Andrew
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks needs to write a PHP script to clear out old group notices
[12:08] Dahlia Trimble: bye all, happy holidays :)
[12:08] Teravus Ousley: Bye Dahlia
[12:08] Fearghus McMahon: take care Dahlia
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: tc Dahlia
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: happy holidays, Dahlia
[12:09] Teravus Ousley: HH T00
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: you too
[12:09] Master Dubrovna: Same to you Dahlia
[12:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia happy holidays
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: HH and HNY to all. :-)
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: HNY -> Happy New Year
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