Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-02

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[2012/10/02 11:02]  VivK Lowlag: hi Sarah
[2012/10/02 11:02]  dan banner: hey ari
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Sarah Kline: Hi Vivian
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Sarah Kline: Hi Justin
[2012/10/02 11:02]  dan banner: hey justin
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: some here are in haloween mood :)
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Sarah Kline: Neb
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[2012/10/02 11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[2012/10/02 11:02]  BlueWall.Slade Hi
[2012/10/02 11:03]  Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin
[2012/10/02 11:03]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          d26fbf7: 2012-09-28 02:19:15 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[2012/10/02 11:03]  Manfred.Aabye Hi Leute
[2012/10/02 11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: waiting for justin to get visible
[2012/10/02 11:03]  Arielle Popstar: and Neb, Sarah, Blue, Taarna
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Taarna Welles: Hello everybody
[2012/10/02 11:04]  dan banner: hello
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Sarah Kline: hi
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Arielle Popstar: JayR, Viv and Marcus
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Justin I did change the flotsamcache timeout in the last OSgrid release
[2012/10/02 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2012/10/02 11:05]  JayR Cela: :_)
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: really need a cache that expires based on requested cache size rather than at a set time
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, your know most about thread problems ? anyway i have a very nice stacktrace. get the idea that am running out of threads on linux ?
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: what really should only expire
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: is avatar stuff
[2012/10/02 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: the stuff in the scene really shouldnt expire unless a deep scan doesnt find it anymore
[2012/10/02 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2012/10/02 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think that would be sensible
[2012/10/02 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: still watching my viewer pull down scads of stuff - I swear it doesn't cache anything
[2012/10/02 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya
[2012/10/02 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: depends on the viewer
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey increases cache right up to 9984mb
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya stuff in the scene, it seems questionable as to what it is keeping
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: well LL want to change code so the viewer use the cache better
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Marcus Llewellyn: Supposedly the viewer's cache is to be part of LL's current performance project at some point.
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm actually still running LL 3.2.1 on Windows :).
[2012/10/02 11:08]  Arielle Popstar: every fresh login seems to pull around 1500 items for me
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: Melanie was saying viewrs that have the built in AO
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I seem to pull down lots and lots too, though maybe because I only had a 1GB (!) cache
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: pull your entire inventory everytime you log in
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: so they insure they get the assets it needs for the AO
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: that would be rather shit
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: that was the gist of what i caught anyway
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that was her conclusion as well
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/10/02 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: hmmm.
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: i have done testing with 0b9bf23 and empty cache but it bring things to crawl if you use zen
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: I have not noticed that myself
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i am using Zen right now too
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: the common slow request problem nebadon
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect linden route inventory requests direct to their inventory sevice? Any idea?
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: I pretty much always use Zen
[2012/10/02 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Arielle Popstar: allow scripted ao in lbsa and likely many wouldnt bother with viewer ao
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: the Slow Inventory requests on login
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: are attributed to the AO
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: according to melanie
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: because everytime you log in its pulling the entire inventory
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: why would an ao need to scan every inventory item though?
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: ARielle, scripted AO i never use in opensim. just because many regions it dont work
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: to get the animations
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: its stupid
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: doesn't it know the asset IDs? Why would it need the item component?
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: i think justin hit the nail, the viewer know the uuid's the load.
[2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem with these 1/2 baked viewer AOs
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: is the animations can be anywhere
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Sarah Kline: Its just started doing this?
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: there is no specified place to put them
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: so the viewer has to assume they are anywhere in the inventory, thus downloading the entire list
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Sarah Kline: had built in AOs for a long time now
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: yes its not new Sarah
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Arielle Popstar: well easy to test by logging in with viewer ao turned off
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: but either is the slow request messages
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: that must result in fairly poor performance on the LL grid too though?
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Marcus Llewellyn: The AO's use inventory links. So the actual item could be in any folder.
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: probably
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: well instead of animation names the could use asset uuid's for the animations. and store that
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: LL has the luxary of throwing more hardware at stuff though
[2012/10/02 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: even so... this all sounds rermakbly dumb
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: hence the 150+ asset servers
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Arielle Popstar: wellmost 0f the viewers require ao to be in specific folder
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I don't know the details
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, melanie can elaborate
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: I really didnt catch the whole argument either
[2012/10/02 11:13]  Marcus Llewellyn: Oz Linden once asked for comments about viewr side AO on the opensource list. I haven't heard anything about an official one actually been greenlit, though.
[2012/10/02 11:14]  BlueWall.Slade that shoud be an "apperance" setting like skin, size, etc.
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: he marcus
[2012/10/02 11:15]  tx Oh: EH-OH
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Arielle Popstar: would a viewer ao be any different from a scripted one?
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: viewer AOs work when scripts are disabled
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: yes, scipted ones dont work here 90% of the time
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: otherwise they are pretty much the same
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: generally with a script AO though
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: the animations are either UUID list
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: or the animations are in the same prim as the script
[2012/10/02 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: so inventory impact is much much lower
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have heard of scripts that can work in regions where scripts are disabled but I don't know how one can do that.
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: not really Andrew
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: still, I'm really susprised that a viewer ao wouldn't just store the animatio nasset uuids and request those
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Marcus Llewellyn: There've been bugs that enabled it in the past.
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: some of the scripted prim properties will make it appear the script is still working
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Arielle Popstar: i think that is more in s/l
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: or at least item uuids. But, as you say, I don't know the details of this stuff
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: but if you try to recompile the script in those areas it will fail
[2012/10/02 11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, in SL I have a translation device that is said to work in no script regions (but I haven't tested that)
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: that would be interesting
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: but I am skeptical
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: So am I
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: unless it uses some kind of MOAP thing
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Sarah Kline: yes in SL some huds can still work
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to test it one day
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: which could technically maybe be possible
[2012/10/02 11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: It needs to listen to chat so I don't see how moap would work
[2012/10/02 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya i guess maybe its possible, to be honest I have not used SL for a really long time
[2012/10/02 11:18]  Andrew Hellershanks: its not a good thing to have or else a griefer could use griefing scrsipts in no script regions
[2012/10/02 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, thats why I am skeptical, but perhaps certain functions may continue to work
[2012/10/02 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: kind of like the OSSL threat level stuff
[2012/10/02 11:18]  Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks nods
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: sofar i see all scripted objects always stop in no-script zone
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: in sl
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Sarah Kline: yes it its in a state
[2012/10/02 11:19]  VivK Lowlag: you can fly to 100m in sl to re-enble scripts
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Arielle Popstar: oh just noticed that my viewer ao was turned off and yet my inventory loaded 1600 items when i arrived
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: VivK: really?
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Sarah Kline: i think they extended that now lol
[2012/10/02 11:19]  dan banner: ya thats for flying aircraft
[2012/10/02 11:19]  Sarah Kline: ban lines reach up higher
[2012/10/02 11:20]  tx Oh: oh, i think there is something like limiting script functions
[2012/10/02 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm no sarah. ban lines are around 100 meters to
[2012/10/02 11:20]  BlueWall.Slade yeah, you can bounce on the top of them
[2012/10/02 11:20]  VivK Lowlag: ban lines are infinite Rich
[2012/10/02 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: yellow lines in firestorm ? that are ban lines. and i can always fly over them
[2012/10/02 11:21]  tx Oh: ban lines are for the a..
[2012/10/02 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: no, i always can fly over a banned parcel if you go around 140 meters
[2012/10/02 11:21]  Andrew Hellershanks: not good if you have a skybox at higher altitude
[2012/10/02 11:21]  Sarah Kline: yes your right its only bans that go up to 5020 m now
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: i hate the people that think ban lines keep them save. but in the sky the dont work
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Sarah Kline: they extended it RIch
[2012/10/02 11:22]  tx Oh: who needs ban lines in a better world?
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: right andrew, thats why its so dump the enabled it. because the dont work
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: heh, well back to OpenSimulator, anyone have anything pressing they wanted to talk about thats OpenSimulator related?
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: Sarah, the wrong direction i think :)
[2012/10/02 11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was having another look at my changes to excluding things from IAR files
[2012/10/02 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: I have something I want to show you later Justin, about a Radar HUD
[2012/10/02 11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: well, not sure if neb answhere. got not long ago this nice strcktrace.
[2012/10/02 11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: stacktrace
[2012/10/02 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok
[2012/10/02 11:23]  Arielle Popstar: are incremental iar saves possible using a date?
[2012/10/02 11:23]  BlueWall.Slade rsync iars
[2012/10/02 11:24]  tx Oh: can't you just use tar --remove-files on the IAR?
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: if you do the iar bij remateadmin you can add your filename arielle
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: the Gist of it is though Justin
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: getting through 1.35 mb per second - that's extreme
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: remember how i was telling you in some of my testing we were seeing 160-200% cpu load with 7-8 avatars
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Arielle Popstar: 1.2 gb saves take a long time
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Marcus Llewellyn: I always have a datestamp as part of my IAR filename.
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: well it turns out the radar hud is the cause
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: aha. now you give usefull information justin. now i start to udnerstand the curn
[2012/10/02 11:24]  Collar-Cuff-mesh: [INFO]You are owned by lillith xue
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: well, that might just point out something that happened earlier - but it's an extremely high figure I think
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: or is it
[2012/10/02 11:25]  BlueWall.Slade Nebadon - does it do that in a sim with just one avatar ?
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: sound like am still at square one with train. but this on linux justin. and that is a bit more stricht then windows
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: no hold on, I'm talking rubbish - it's high but not that unusual right now
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, misreading
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: the CPU is higher with 1 avatar wearing it yes BlueWall
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem is all the avatars are wearing the HUD
[2012/10/02 11:25]  BlueWall.Slade do you have a copy of the script?
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: Stupid network connection keeps dropping now and then
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: so around 7 things get really horrible
[2012/10/02 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: its ok justin. its not easy all the numbers.
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: have you looked act exactly what the hud is doing?
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: I dont at the moment, and I am actually going to have to cut out about 15 minutes early today
[2012/10/02 11:26]  tx Oh: what hud?
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Arielle Popstar: must be on Bell Andrew
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but as soon as I am back I will hop on IRC with the script
[2012/10/02 11:26]  BlueWall.Slade ok, me too
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: well, that kind of native crash can be really hard to diagnose
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Andrew Hellershanks: :-)
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Marcus Llewellyn: Does the HUD use SensorRepeat in a nasty wayor anything?
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: justin, its not that am running out of threads ?
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: just briefly Justin, I have not figured out the cause though
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec let me grab the script
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I would not think so
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: it looked pretty basic
[2012/10/02 11:26]  sim core: :-S
[2012/10/02 11:26]  tx Oh: oh, apropos irc
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, rira: I would not think so
[2012/10/02 11:26]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how much of what I said came through before my connection dropped
[2012/10/02 11:26]  BlueWall.Slade I have some scanner scripts running around, but they seem ok
[2012/10/02 11:27]  tx Oh: i've heared group chat leads to lags?!
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe its the fact its a HUD
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: thats causing the lag
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: ok. i have the idea to have osSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast with as extra option delay parameter. so e dont need llSleep
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: so with hud lots of cpu use - without much lower?
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: yes its like 8-10 times lower
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: without the huds
[2012/10/02 11:27]  BlueWall.Slade ahh
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: it goes from 160% to 10%
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: something like that
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: its crazy
[2012/10/02 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2012/10/02 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade does it change textures or anything?
[2012/10/02 11:28]  tx Oh: what hud are you talking about?
[2012/10/02 11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you use fast you don't usually want a delay
[2012/10/02 11:28]  dan banner: client side radar is alot nicer
[2012/10/02 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: justin, still not figured out why the train crash the simon linux but on windows there's no pain
[2012/10/02 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: heh i guess its not as simple as I remembered it being
[2012/10/02 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/10/02 11:28]  pierro.lefou hi
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, yes becaue that parameter is to fast. and llSetPos or any other idea is to slow
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi pierro
[2012/10/02 11:29]  lillith xue: hi all
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Marcus Llewellyn: Well, that HUD really doesn't need to be sensing once a second, for starters.
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, i tried smaller steps but then it still seems to buffer the positions and let the prim still jump
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Andrew Hellershanks: llSleep is also not fine enough control for delay?
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, on a quick skim there's mnothing obviuos, but maybe this isn't the best place to talk further about that
[2012/10/02 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi lillith
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, I dont have a whole lot more time to talk now about it anyway
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: either later today, or whenever you have some time
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: o
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2012/10/02 11:30]  tx Oh: a scan every second is maybe to much anyway
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya probably
[2012/10/02 11:30]  BlueWall.Slade I'll look at it in my grid later
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: cool
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: tried nebadons ide with for delay. but that eat all cpu because the loop is in the 300000
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ya, you really do need to be careful how long they run
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: so your train consistently triggers a native mono crash on linux?
[2012/10/02 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: it can totally hose up threads
[2012/10/02 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: the last days it happens almost once a day
[2012/10/02 11:31]  tx Oh: well, you could switch in a idle state with a timer set and when timer hit switch back
[2012/10/02 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: i needed to use llSleep(0.03); to make the train visible move
[2012/10/02 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: tx, the normal timers are to slow
[2012/10/02 11:32]  Marcus Llewellyn: I'm also wondering why it's using a timer with llGetAttached to see if it's attached, instead of just using teh attach event.
[2012/10/02 11:32]  tx Oh: the timer in opensim is per default to a sec or so
[2012/10/02 11:32]  Allen Kerensky: llSleep is throttled at 0.5s as a minimum is what I've heard... anything less than 0.5s becomes 0.5s silently
[2012/10/02 11:32]  BlueWall.Slade need that llSetKeyframedMotion
[2012/10/02 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: and i dont like the change the parameter in the ini
[2012/10/02 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: yes blue, i played with it in sl. thats really good. i like it already. when does it work here ? :))
[2012/10/02 11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: Allen, that is probably what the LSL Wiki states for llSleep()
[2012/10/02 11:33]  Allen Kerensky: if I remember correctly, it was a comment on Mantis from a core dev
[2012/10/02 11:33]  BlueWall.Slade Avn will contrib it back at some point
[2012/10/02 11:33]  BlueWall.Slade signpostmarv worked on a version
[2012/10/02 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: that doesn't stop anybody implementing it in the meantime
[2012/10/02 11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: asked already on forum whats the difference between llSleep and in C# thread.sleep tho both stop the thrread. only the lat one is used at many lsl commands
[2012/10/02 11:33]  BlueWall.Slade ++ jcc
[2012/10/02 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: at which point that version would take precedence
[2012/10/02 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: allen: yes, we've been through this on the mailing lists a couple of times - unfortunately i don't remember the details - need to wikify them next time
[2012/10/02 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: someone try to make llSetKeyframedMotion if you follow mailinglist
[2012/10/02 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: rira: On OpenSmiulator llSleep == C# sleep
[2012/10/02 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: tjustin, then.... why is opensim with lsl stoppin so many times threads ?
[2012/10/02 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: and in theory it's not particularly accurate on c#, 10-20 ms
[2012/10/02 11:35]  BlueWall.Slade when we get into c#5 w/async we can help those situations a little
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: soudns not healty on heavy scripted region
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: rira: c# sleep stops a thread
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, that sounds like the standard PC timer tick resolution
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: to do something else may require a fundamentally different script engine approach
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes
[2012/10/02 11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: yes justin, i looked in the opensim code. its done with many lsl commands
[2012/10/02 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: rira: that's to implement the standard lsl command delays
[2012/10/02 11:36]  Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn looks foward to a version of XEngine with async.
[2012/10/02 11:37]  BlueWall.Slade just having it won't make it any better - the capability
[2012/10/02 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: until now still have chicken egg problem. llsetpos to slow parametersfast = to gast
[2012/10/02 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: to gast
[2012/10/02 11:37]  BlueWall.Slade it will need an overhaul
[2012/10/02 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: justin, anyway your undo fix works perfect sofar i see on windows. and linux seems perfect to
[2012/10/02 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, good
[2012/10/02 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: thats why i switched back to linux. more easy with maintance. but it crash always.
[2012/10/02 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: Just a heads up I have to go in 7 minutes
[2012/10/02 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: ok
[2012/10/02 11:38]  nurbsPlane9: DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL
[2012/10/02 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: so if anyone has anything for me please let me know now
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Arielle Popstar: my inventory is no longer loading here
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: are ypou going to try soon a new head nebadon ?
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: newer than the OSgrid release you mean?
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Arielle Popstar: first 600 items loaded fast then it stalled with 1031 to go
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: the one with if i read it right more connectons instead of 2
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: oh Melanies patch?
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: yea I guess we dont have that yet
[2012/10/02 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm think your right
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we'll need to test that
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya maybe soon
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure about that - bu,mping the active connwections from 2 to 12
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: seems my train sim is just below that
[2012/10/02 11:40]  tx Oh: richardus:
[2012/10/02 11:40]  pierro.lefou i have a question if possible ( with my poor english ) :)
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: Not sure how that would scale over the whole of osgrid - need to think about it
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Arielle Popstar: hope that helps with inventory loads
[2012/10/02 11:40]  tx Oh: see this if you need faster timers
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Marcus Llewellyn: The viewer does 8 simultaneous requets by default, I believe.
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: sure pierro
[2012/10/02 11:40]  tx Oh: a undocumented feature
[2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I think it might be 2
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Marcus Llewellyn: Firestorm is definitely 8.
[2012/10/02 11:41]  pierro.lefou just to know if next HG 2.0 is backward compatible with HG 1.5 for TP only ?
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Arielle Popstar: supposed to be Pierro
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Dahlia
[2012/10/02 11:41]  BlueWall.Slade Hi Dahlia
[2012/10/02 11:41]  pierro.lefou and with OS version integrate HG 2.0 as base ?
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: pierro: I believe Crista/Diva said that HG 2.0 is completely backward compatible with HG 1.5
[2012/10/02 11:41]  tx Oh: group chat. dahlia name it
[2012/10/02 11:41]  pierro.lefou thk justin
[2012/10/02 11:41]  tx Oh: can't we use a irc server for that?
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: tx , thanks i know that paremater. but if i cant set it at 0.03 its useless but thats what i want to try with normal commands or something like that
[2012/10/02 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: She would certainly be the person to ask on IRC #opensim-dev
[2012/10/02 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/10/02 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: pierro: The next release of OpenSimulator will contain HG 2.0 or whatever is developed at that point
[2012/10/02 11:42]  pierro.lefou again thk justin for they infos
[2012/10/02 11:42]  Richardus Raymaker: cool justin
[2012/10/02 11:42]  pierro.lefou thk
[2012/10/02 11:42]  sim core: :-? I'm mostly wondering why we are dependant on ode to use the physics engine just for avatar collisions with prims, it seems to be unavailable with the other engines
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: sim: ? The other evngine is bullet and that would do it just fine
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Dahlia Trimble: anyone notice memory leaks when using mono but not with windows?
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: bullet is right now not bad, i tried it a few times now..
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ok guys
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: i have to run
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Marcus Llewellyn: Later, Neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll be back on IRC a bit later
[2012/10/02 11:43]  tx Oh: sim core, you can just switch to basic physics
[2012/10/02 11:43]  dan banner: have fun neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, with or withut warp3d ?
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Sarah Kline: bye Neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: sofar i dont see leaks
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Dahlia Trimble: later neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  tx Oh: it's better for overall performance
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: bye neb
[2012/10/02 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: hard to tell with that other memory leak recently where undo was not being limited
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Dahlia Trimble: Richardus, with I guess
[2012/10/02 11:44]  tx Oh: bye neb
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: So much for Firestorm. It sort of crashed when I switched to different window and returned
[2012/10/02 11:44]  lillith xue: theres a little leak
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Dahlia Trimble: little?
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Richardus Raymaker: try it without warp3d, that one eat memory like a hippo
[2012/10/02 11:44]  sim core: :-J I think windows leaks, it's just the tools for seeing it is less well made
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Taarna Welles: Welcome back Andrew :)
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: ty
[2012/10/02 11:44]  lillith xue: takes months to fill all my memory ;-)
[2012/10/02 11:44]  Dahlia Trimble: I can fill it fast :)
[2012/10/02 11:45]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia scipted moveing prim ? because that have justin fixt with the undo limit
[2012/10/02 11:45]  Dahlia Trimble: no moving prims
[2012/10/02 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: no rotation or rescaling?
[2012/10/02 11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: I know the leak is in a module Im developing, but I only see it on mono
[2012/10/02 11:46]  tx Oh: there was really an undo stack on scripted prim manipulation?
[2012/10/02 11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: just curious if others see it too
[2012/10/02 11:46]  tx Oh: :-)
[2012/10/02 11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: i just run linux for a few days again dahlia.. but looks fine here
[2012/10/02 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: tx: yes and still is - unfortunately it's hard to remove because it's tightly bound in the code
[2012/10/02 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: one day
[2012/10/02 11:47]  lillith xue: my server ran out-of-memory some days ago after 3-4 months of uptime
[2012/10/02 11:47]  tx Oh: i hope the next 1 1/2 weeks will pass by quickly
[2012/10/02 11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: omg does that still run smooth the region after 4 months up ?
[2012/10/02 11:48]  lillith xue: after restarting all opensim instances all works normaly ;-)
[2012/10/02 11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: I talked to a mono dev but he couldnt find the specific problem. He thought it may be a bug int the mono framework
[2012/10/02 11:48]  Marcus Llewellyn: A sim will run pretty much indefinitely if no pesky users enter it. ;)
[2012/10/02 11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: well, windows is good for opensim. not for maintance. the restarts always are....
[2012/10/02 11:48]  tx Oh: lillith, maybe your server is undead too
[2012/10/02 11:48]  Allen Kerensky: October is a good month for undead sims
[2012/10/02 11:48]  lillith xue: lol ;-)
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: jhehe
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: ghosts dont need to worry this month
[2012/10/02 11:49]  lillith xue: well im using an old version of openSuSE
[2012/10/02 11:49]  lillith xue: think i use an old version of mono too ;-)
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: wich suse version ?
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: I hope you're thinking about upgrading at some point :)
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe I need an old version :)
[2012/10/02 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: 11.x have mono 2.6.x sofar i know
[2012/10/02 11:49]  tx Oh: anyway, group chat. why does it lag and is there a way to get it solved?
[2012/10/02 11:49]  lillith xue: 11.x im not sure 2 or 3
[2012/10/02 11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: sims seems to lag a bt more on plaza's
[2012/10/02 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: tx: I haven't looked at it closely, but I suspect that group chat sends an individual IM to everyboyd in the group
[2012/10/02 11:50]  Dahlia Trimble: why does it lag, where? on osgrid?
[2012/10/02 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: which as you can imagine would not scale well with a big group
[2012/10/02 11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: plaza's have sometimes lag. i see here sometimes chat lag to now
[2012/10/02 11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: the group chat code is pretty minimal and not designed for lots of traffic
[2012/10/02 11:51]  tx Oh: isn't it good to utilize a irc server for group chat?
[2012/10/02 11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: IRC limits message size
[2012/10/02 11:51]  Allen Kerensky: IRC has its own issues at scale
[2012/10/02 11:51]  Marcus Llewellyn: Group chat really ought have a central service, rather than routing through simulators.
[2012/10/02 11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: sometimes i have the feeling that map requests are going the same way as group.. so many requests
[2012/10/02 11:52]  Dahlia Trimble: maps use the same pipeline as textures
[2012/10/02 11:52]  tx Oh: i ever thought that lindens group chat problems could be solved with an irc server network
[2012/10/02 11:52]  dan banner: IRC scales very well
[2012/10/02 11:52]  tx Oh: irc has proven to survive
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: irc is good.
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Allen Kerensky: group chat needs some sort of dedicated message broker service
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: IRC scales very well
[2012/10/02 11:53]  pierro.lefou it's time for me - thk for info - and have a good evening all :) bonsoir a toutes et tous et a bientôt
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye pierro :)
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Taarna Welles: bye Pierro
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Allen Kerensky: one word of disagreement on IRC scaling: netsplit
[2012/10/02 11:53]  tx Oh: bye pierro
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: I see IRC channels with thousands of users
[2012/10/02 11:53]  Allen Kerensky: IRC works yes, but that's not the same thing as looking at what's out there now, 25 years of Internet development later
[2012/10/02 11:54]  Dahlia Trimble: you mean XMPP?
[2012/10/02 11:54]  Allen Kerensky: For example:
[2012/10/02 11:54]  tx Oh: lol, and still no real replacement for irc
[2012/10/02 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia. eeuw.
[2012/10/02 11:54]  Arielle Popstar: stood the test of time
[2012/10/02 11:54]  tx Oh: xmpp is soap, way to complicated
[2012/10/02 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: LL have still not chal and group lag fixt
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Marcus Llewellyn: IRC PRIVMSGs just include the channel as a parameter. Channels are sort of illusionary where messaging is concerned.
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: ZeroMQ is supposedly good too
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: but untested for a group chat application
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Allen Kerensky: this is a test grid, no?
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: depends who you ask allen
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: knock yourself ou :)
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: *out
[2012/10/02 11:55]  Allen Kerensky: nodnod RiRa
[2012/10/02 11:55]  tx Oh: it is the test grid
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, for that i dont need a test grid. just a second viewer
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Allen Kerensky: that's why I only ask, never state, these days
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I would make sure the current chat is as efficient as possible first
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Marcus Llewellyn: An overhaul of group chat architecture that eases simulator burdens would also require viewer development, don't forget.
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Arielle Popstar: tests code and patience :)
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's not as if any grid is big enough to really stress a group chat system
[2012/10/02 11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I like Taarna's AFK balloon
[2012/10/02 11:57]  Allen Kerensky: another oddball thought is whether or not multicast would work for group chat
[2012/10/02 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, yes
[2012/10/02 11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to eliminate the PHP stuff used by groups but to do that properly would be a way to issue SQL queries in a way that isn't tied to a given database engine
[2012/10/02 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm reminded of greg bear's eternity sci fi where avatars would have country flags projected over their shoulders
[2012/10/02 11:58]  Allen Kerensky: while we're wishing out loud - I miss group proposals heh
[2012/10/02 11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: group proposals?
[2012/10/02 11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: i have disabled group chat. only use the notices system
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Marcus Llewellyn: You endorsing a switch to communication via pure iconography, justin? ;)
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Allen Kerensky: sorry, showing my age I guess - a way to do polling through the groups mechanism
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: if anyone wants to experiment with alternative group chat, they might find this useful
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: i never have done or sen that in sl.
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Allen, I think I've heard of it but never seen it in use
[2012/10/02 11:59]  tx Oh: oh, i rember the lindens rating system.
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Allen Kerensky: nod tx I miss ratings too
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: I'm surprised we don't see more of them :)
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ratings are overrated ;-)
[2012/10/02 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: :)
[2012/10/02 12:00]  tx Oh: i made l$ by rate people
[2012/10/02 12:00]  tx Oh: :-)
[2012/10/02 12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: Someone would just try and find a way to "stuff the ballot box"
[2012/10/02 12:00]  Marcus Llewellyn: It was being able to split your consciousness up into "ghosts" to multitask that I liked from those books. ;)
[2012/10/02 12:00]  BlueWall.Slade justin - I will try to get the plugin system in this week...
[2012/10/02 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: about as good as web-polling, looking at someone's twitter follower numbers or the number of likes on facebook
[2012/10/02 12:00]  Allen Kerensky: oh ratings had gaming problems so LL dropped it - and group proposals failed more than worked on SLgrid, so LL dropped that too - I think they even removed the UI tab now
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Marcus Llewellyn: Anyhoo, I gotta scoot.
[2012/10/02 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade I need to do a little cleanup and arrange the commit history a little
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn smiles and waves. :)
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Dahlia Trimble: me too, bye all :)
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: bye marcus
[2012/10/02 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade bye Dahlia
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Arielle Popstar: waves
[2012/10/02 12:01]  dan banner: bye all
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dan
[2012/10/02 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade it is not 100% ready and there are a couple of things I want to do with it
[2012/10/02 12:01]  tx Oh: bye to the leavers
[2012/10/02 12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: Would regex expressions be ok when excluding stuff from IAR saves?
[2012/10/02 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade will develop those on the fly
[2012/10/02 12:02]  Sarah Kline: byes all
[2012/10/02 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade group input will improge it
[2012/10/02 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade improve
[2012/10/02 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade bye Sarah
[2012/10/02 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: bye sarah
[2012/10/02 12:02]  tx Oh: regex for iar would be a cool feature :-)
[2012/10/02 12:02]  tx Oh: but in the and, it's just a tar file
[2012/10/02 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: A glob approach may be easier
[2012/10/02 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: still dotn see group chat as important. there enough other things to fix.
[2012/10/02 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Does C# have globbing?
[2012/10/02 12:03]  tx Oh: group chat is important
[2012/10/02 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: I look for a simple wildcard pattern matching and its the one thing that doesn't appear to be in C#
[2012/10/02 12:03]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          d26fbf7: 2012-09-28 02:19:15 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[2012/10/02 12:03]  tx Oh: it's vital for community building
[2012/10/02 12:03]  Allen Kerensky: agreed tx
[2012/10/02 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, though it doesn't look like converting a glob to a regex undwereneath is that complicated
[2012/10/02 12:04]  Arielle Popstar: group chat helps to coordinate the fixes for other issues
[2012/10/02 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade we probably need to have some industriasl strength applications, like we do with profiles
[2012/10/02 12:04]  Allen Kerensky: group chat and group proposals are both very useful for groups that are not "announce only"
[2012/10/02 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: learn people to use irc :O
[2012/10/02 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: so what's wrong with group chat at the moment?
[2012/10/02 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade we have core OS modules that provide basic services
[2012/10/02 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade those can get replaced with addons
[2012/10/02 12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was starting to think that the only way to handle wildcard is to convert to regex and just hope someone hasn't stuck a regex symbol in the name of the item (ie. a ?)
[2012/10/02 12:05]  tx Oh: this world should be immersive
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: then you have to escape those
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: since ? would be very common
[2012/10/02 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade ?
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: you can't ask someone to escape the ? they want to keep in the name of their items
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Allen Kerensky: group chats either fail to send, lag badly, or "stall" somewhere causing the viewer or region to fall over
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Allen Kerensky: I haven't tested the group chat crash in a while
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: anrew: yes, so the code has to properly handle that case
[2012/10/02 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade I remember looking in the group code and saw that we copy as message into the database for each group member
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Richardus Raymaker: last time i tried it. it still did freeze the region
[2012/10/02 12:05]  Allen Kerensky: but sometimes its like you can receive group chats, but sending one causes huge delays somewhere
[2012/10/02 12:06]  BlueWall.Slade and, I think there is no way to clean those - no cap
[2012/10/02 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: allen: Might be another case where it should be performed on a separate thread
[2012/10/02 12:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: it would be so much simpler to have wildcard pattern match as a callable routine. C# has so many other things already included. Lack of wildcard support seems to be be a major oversight
[2012/10/02 12:07]  tx Oh: really? chat via sql?
[2012/10/02 12:07]  Allen Kerensky: i get the vague feeling it has something to do with underlying internet issues that don't deliver the message in a timely fashion and the message handler gets into a bad state somewhere, based on some console error messages
[2012/10/02 12:07]  Allen Kerensky: tx: yes, there is a chat via sql in OSG already, called OWI
[2012/10/02 12:07]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm , did snoopy made that ?
[2012/10/02 12:07]  Allen Kerensky: yes
[2012/10/02 12:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: I like how you can send a message to a group, get a message saying it failed and then it still appears in the gorup chat window
[2012/10/02 12:08]  Richardus Raymaker: i know the 3 letters :)
[2012/10/02 12:08]  Allen Kerensky: and Lani implemented a layer on it she calls "subspace"
[2012/10/02 12:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: chat via sql would have more overhead
[2012/10/02 12:08]  Allen Kerensky: not to mention a really hot table
[2012/10/02 12:09]  Arielle Popstar: you can get that on tp's too
[2012/10/02 12:09]  Arielle Popstar: get a tp failed message then wind up where you wanted top go
[2012/10/02 12:09]  BlueWall.Slade how many on-line avatars in a group seem to make it start failing?
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: if I get tp failed I don[t think I've ever wound up where I was going
[2012/10/02 12:10]  tx Oh: i don't mind if a group message get lost when i tp.
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I expect tjhe base code could do with work - though at least IM is being handled asynchronously
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know a few 100
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Arielle Popstar: clicking Cancel TP is useless
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I doublt one needs to get into the complexities of actually transporting group messages differently at this poitn
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, yes
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: Not useless arielle, but the resulkt after the cancel is like lottery
[2012/10/02 12:10]  Taarna Welles: Peeps I got to dash. CU next week
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Richardus Raymaker: byw taarna
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need to go as well
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: See you all later
[2012/10/02 12:11]  tx Oh: bye bye
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Arielle Popstar: waves
[2012/10/02 12:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll continue to occasionally dig around for ways to do wildcarding in C#
[2012/10/02 12:11]  BlueWall.Slade bye Justin
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