Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-07

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[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Happy Tuesday, everyone. :-)
[11:04] Eliopod Beaumont: hi Justin
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus, eliopod, folks
[11:05] Taarna Welles: Hi Justin
[11:05] dan banner: hey justin
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi justin
[11:05] dan banner: justin have you looked at 5878 yet?
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the first I've seen of the mantis, though I have seen the bug in another context
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: that's interesting data
[11:07] dan banner: ya it tends to crash a mesh viewer hard
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe the problem goes away on a simulator restart but that's not a solution
[11:07] Blues.Spiritor Hi Justin
[11:08] dan banner: on restart the whole build vanished except for 1 prim
[11:08] dan banner: and yes it went away
[11:09] dan banner: maybe because it was restarted and had not been stored yet idk
[11:09] Anastasios Aurotharius: hello everyone :)
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't think the data manages to get to the db
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: something is going wrong further up - I would suspect a thread race
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I will look at that, though not today
[11:09] dan banner: this person has created this problem several times in the last week
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: does it seem to be just with particular viewers?
[11:10] dan banner: ive seen it happen when people use imprudence too
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: has it just started occuring recently do you think?
[11:11] dan banner: no its been doing it a while first time was at a speedbuild when someone linked their build
[11:11] dan banner: maybe several months now
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: where that build sculpts ? lol
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: is a script making the linkset?
[11:12] dan banner: its possible i have only noticed it since using a mesh viewer more often
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw it once in another context a few weeks ago
[11:12] dan banner: i dont think so bluewall
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't have it associated with a server log mesage though, so that's a good poitn to start investigating
[11:12] dan banner: and it doesnt always happen
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: classic rqace :)
[11:13] dan banner: very random although the user in the log has caused it to occur more often than anyone i think
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: that is interesting
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: might be viewer or the way they build or some combination of factors
[11:14] dan banner: for like a week or more its always been this one user and the one build they are working on
[11:14] dan banner: been happening a couple times a day sometimes
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:14] dan banner: and yes its possible it could be they are trying to link things too fast or something idk for sure
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: there's not really such a thing as "too fast", though certain message patterns could cause problems
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: this is something thatwill have to be fixed in opensim
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully I can take a look tomorrow
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: was my eyeball chasing them around when it happened?
[11:15] dan banner: yes it really messes things up for mesh viewers
[11:15] dan banner: no bluewall
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: so the viewer message doesn't apear in non-mesh viewers?
[11:16] dan banner: but there are followers off in the ocean
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: I think they're dead now
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: anyway - is the linkset really large?
[11:16] dan banner: i dont think so justin it seems non mesh viewers ignore the problem better than mesh viewers do
[11:17] Blues.Spiritor Titanium has mentioned to me that the Macserver in Cambridge is having issues shutting down sometimes now on 7.3 I think
[11:17] dan banner: yes bluewall its a good size but ive seen it with 30 prim linksets before too
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: ok, I'll look for it on my grid too
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: Any idea what the trigger might be? Is it when creating a new link set, joinging two linksets togetherm etc?
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: if you can identify any sequence of events that make it happen would be grat too
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: < great
[11:18] Taarna Welles: I can't run the latest OSGrid software update. In the viewer(s) the avatar frees or moves very slow. Anyone else who has the same problem?
[11:18] dan banner: i had it happen once i believe when i added something to a linkset
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: that issue has been fixed in master
[11:19] Blues.Spiritor my's the simulator...gets error: Shutting down finalizer thread timed out
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: A single prim or another linkset?
[11:19] dan banner: i think it was when i added another prim to the linkset justin
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:20] dan banner: but ive done the same steps trying to repeat the error and its not very reproducable
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: taarna: there was a performance regressio nthat has been fixed in master
[11:21] Titanium.Jones We have a very reproduceable error
[11:21] Titanium.Jones every
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: yeah, some kind of thread race I suspect
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. this days i always unlink first and then relink everything again with new prims
[11:21] dan banner: its just on occasion, but i will link linksets, and single prims and see if i can figure out exactly when it happens
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: titanium: what error is that?
[11:21] Taarna Welles: @Justin, understood
[11:21] Titanium.Jones on the mac latest mono
[11:21] Titanium.Jones if an avatar has been on the simulator
[11:22] Titanium.Jones it wont shut down
[11:22] Titanium.Jones Shutting down finalizer thread timed out.
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: what version of opensim?
[11:22] Titanium.Jones 0.7.2
[11:22] Titanium.Jones release
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.3 contains a change that will probably fix that
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, when 0.7.3 is released
[11:23] Titanium.Jones I'll grab a copy and test it
[11:23] Titanium.Jones thanks
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yw
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i finally got a prim mirror, if anyone is interested
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you can grab a copy in front of me
[11:24] Eliopod Beaumont: when do u expect to release 0.7.3?
[11:24] Jalen Optera: oh, yay Neb
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neb
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: eilopod: hopefully end of month
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: it's L$10
[11:25] Eliopod Beaumont: ty:)
[11:25] Arielle Popstar: i need more money
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: thanks
[11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          130b1c0: 2012-02-05 20:47:02 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: there ya go
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: worser, how can i get L$ here ?
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, someone took my OS$100,000 while I wasn't looking
[11:25] dan banner: you cant rich
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker: lol, i know. but i have only o$ here
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: somebody foxed the PayPal module to not screw with neighbor regions
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: fixed
[11:26] dan banner: i actually have new people ask me that all the time "who took my money??"
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:26] Taarna Welles: lol
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker: lol dan, thats new one for me
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: some guy gave a concert on Lbsa Saturday over the voice thing
[11:27] Jalen Optera: he came back on Sunday, was very good
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: cool
[11:28] Blues.Spiritor Anyone read or tested Irrlich engine with ODE?
[11:28] Blues.Spiritor curious
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: never heared about that one
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues today?
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: do you want to geta punch list together for the 0.7.3 release on the wiki?
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, either friday or early next week
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: or that can start at any time - I just wanted to fix the worse bugs before doing rc1
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: you missed the telehubs and land for sale on the map in your weekly
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: oops
[11:32] Blues.Spiritor fyi to read if anyone's interested:
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: are the telehubs working now ?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry :)
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: I want to talk to Melanie to see what we can do to get the telehubs working with multiple region estates so one can be assigned for a group of regions
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: and to get them to multiplex new logins across the spawnpoints
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: you mean 1 estate more opensim instances ? because thats really usefull
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: + we need to support the ossl teleports in some way with the teleport routing
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: yes RiRa
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: the maps show the land for sale as yellow patches now too
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: how was the conference, justin?
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: a lot of people there?
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: about 20. It was cool - get to talk to interesting people
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: What conference was that?
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: just the online nvwn event - wasn't really a conference, more a seminar :
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: on another topic, for the 0.7.3 release I'm thinking of making AppDomainLoading = false for linux but default but true for Windows
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: since Windows has problems with that set to false - though I really don't know why
[11:37] dan banner: would be nice to have an autodetect option
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: I saw if i remeber right it where set true in defaults.
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: we can pick up the platform at runtime
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: that starts to get tricky but I might think about that
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe an auto option in the config
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: how easy can yoiu detect operating system, and set it automatic with override as option ?
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: os detect is already being done for ODE but I'm not sure how foolproof it is
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: is that done in the xml files?
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: (i think they're xml)
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: no, it's effectively done using Util.ReadEtcIssue()
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: although actually
[11:40] dan banner: ya true/false/auto would be the way to do it
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: from Util.GetOperatingSystemInformation one can get platform fairly reliably
[11:41] dan banner: since some people with windows and limited scripts and memory do use false
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I still dont' understand why Windows fails though
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Windows seems to have a problem loading lots of assemblies into one AppDomain
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: lol, maybe they still have some 16 bit code in there??
[11:42] dan banner: heh
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a puzzle, because it should only be limited by system resources
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: I'm not sure, but I think the appdomain things are more of an issue on Linux
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and I really would have thought that loading every script into its own AppDomain would take more memory
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: huge amounts if memory if it is false
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: No, it's much better on linux with it false
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and scripts load massively faster if they don't all get their own AppDomain
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: ok, I hvae it backwards
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think so :)
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: but for some reason the same setting on Windows causes script loading to fail
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, do you know if hg is compatible between opensim 0.7.2 and current dev master?
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: how about a fix for the problem that only some routers allow hg jumps to local grid/standalones from an acccount on an external grid?
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: no, I haven't tested those things
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: the profiles might be an issue with them?
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, you mean loppback problem ?
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: Andrew - I need to make a fix for V2/V3 users in the profiles.
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: we'll see, I'm sure
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: lol, yes we will
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: we might ask smxy to test that
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: not loopback Rira
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know, it's Diva who knows about hg issues
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: in the main
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: well she isnt addressing it
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: been out there for a year and a half
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: and other hg issues are being addressed
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: I have learned a little about HG in some of the work I've been into lately. But, there's still a lot about it that I dont' know
[11:52] dan banner: justin: i made 20 npc yesterday and removed them and the sim was pretty useless after that
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I keep hearing that
[11:52] dan banner: had to restart it
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: that's another thin gI intend to look into
[11:53] dan banner: failed so bad it didnt even finish removing them
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: but that was working before i think
[11:53] dan banner: yes it used to be fine
[11:53] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey sighs
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: any feel for when this became a problem? last week, last month?
[11:55] dan banner: i've had 40 or 50 npc and was able to mass remove them and the sim was stable afterwards
[11:56] dan banner: now it dies after removing around 10 npc.. not sure when it bacme a problem
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it has to be real recent
[11:56] dan banner: i suspect in the last month maybe
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be very helpful to know when it changed
[11:58] dan banner: i'll see if i can figure out where it breaks
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: why is opensi, always so terrible slow
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: thanks
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: do you know how to use git bisect, dan?
[12:00] dan banner: vaguely
[12:01] dan banner: i have all the previous builds still intact so i can get an idea
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: when you get ready to look at that, ping me on irc
[12:01] dan banner: okay ty
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is aposting on forums
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: that explains it
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi:
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: we've had some database migrations lately. But, I think everythgn will still run
[12:02] dan banner: thanks nebadon
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off. See you later, folks
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: bye justin, and thanks
[12:03] Taarna Welles: Bye Justin
[12:03] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
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