Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-31

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[2012/01/31 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: if your visiting lots of grids
[2012/01/31 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: hypergrid or not
[2012/01/31 11:03]  they need to upgrade their opensim code
[2012/01/31 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: it can happen
[2012/01/31 11:03]  especially if one has osgrid and standalone accounts
[2012/01/31 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: something with the viewer cache
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello nebadon, folks
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Sarah Kline: hi Justin
[2012/01/31 11:04]  BlueWall.Slade Hi justin
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Blues.Spiritor Hi Justin
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin
[2012/01/31 11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[2012/01/31 11:05]  dan banner: hi justin
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Shenn Tao: hi all
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Shenn Tao: nice to see you
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Arielle Popstar: in imp i had 5 unknown users listed this morning but in astra i see none
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Sarah Kline: hi Shenn
[2012/01/31 11:05]  BlueWall.Slade hello
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: well different viewers will have differing resutls
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Shenn Tao: bonjour demoiselle Sarah
[2012/01/31 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: they do not share that information
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Mimetic Core: i'm seeing it in V3
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Sarah Kline: i see it too
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Sarah Kline: not often
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: i have for now 2 unknown
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: everyone does
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Sarah Kline: lbsa
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: anyone who visits multiple grids
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: its eventually going to happen
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Taarna Welles: not yet
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: what is?
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Arielle Popstar: i used imp when i was testing older region code though
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: the Uknown User issue
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Mimetic Core: although this viewer is reserved for OSG only
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh - I thought there was a fix for that?
[2012/01/31 11:06]  Mimetic Core: with it's own cache folder
[2012/01/31 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: not that I know of
[2012/01/31 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: the only fix I know is clear the viewer cache
[2012/01/31 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: imprudence has a option to clear just User Name cache
[2012/01/31 11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: i dont have problems with unknown users. i no cloud avatras i preffer first
[2012/01/31 11:07]  Arielle Popstar: i see a lot less clouds lately
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: I see 3 clouds here currently
[2012/01/31 11:08]  dan banner: same
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: Justin, Shenn and Claudia
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Holger Muc: me too
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Claudia Sanz: ooo
[2012/01/31 11:08]  BlueWall.Slade yes
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: some of the time clouds are going to be client problems
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm surprised I'm a cloud though
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: justin is hideing for something
[2012/01/31 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm on a hiding to nothing
[2012/01/31 11:09]  Taarna Welles: You all just appeared for me now
[2012/01/31 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: now only Claudia
[2012/01/31 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: there's justin
[2012/01/31 11:09]  Claudia Sanz: Claudia Sanz is listening to Tool
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: and now claudia is ok
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Arielle Popstar: probably need a toggle rather a rebake claudia
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Claudia Sanz: hi
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Arielle Popstar: here she comes
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Sarah Kline: yes all good now
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Blues.Spiritor May I ask everyone a side question?
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Shenn Tao: beauty need time :))
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: blue: sure
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: sure Blues
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Claudia Sanz: :)
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Shenn Tao: in many ways ))
[2012/01/31 11:10]  Blues.Spiritor I have a sister - teacher who has a clss of 'special needs' children....autistics, underdeveloped socially for example) She has no expeience with VWs and I have suggested a 'protected' grid for her to see if that can help interactivity with her students. 
 Does anyone have a contact in education I could refer her to to get the best mentoring on how she should proceed? SL is not her option. Opensimulator I think should be her path.
[2012/01/31 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: blues: I recommend that she join the opensim educators list and ask there. Lot of helpful people there
[2012/01/31 11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: The idea is nice blue. someway i say to myself its nice for them, to learn things
[2012/01/31 11:11]  Arielle Popstar: pathfinder maybe
[2012/01/31 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey:
[2012/01/31 11:11]  Blues.Spiritor ty all
[2012/01/31 11:12]  Blues.Spiritor any developments on alternate physics engines?
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: blues: intel did a bit of work on bullet - I suspect there's more to come
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Intel is working on it, but yes, there is still a lot to do
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Blues.Spiritor crossing fingers
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i tried to test it yesterday
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: but i could not get the latest Bullet to run on x64 linux
[2012/01/31 11:13]  Blues.Spiritor how did you find it so far?
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: Rober Adams from intel who is working on it will not be back until tommorow
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Blues.Spiritor I'm running Mac osx
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: well right now i can't even get the simulator to start
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: so not real good
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Blues.Spiritor sigh
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect if i changed my testing over to Windows i would get further
[2012/01/31 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i figured i would just wait and talk to Robert
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Blues.Spiritor how is the newest 7.3 opensim working?
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: we definately need something better though
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: we need bullet for 64bit linux
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i did some tests with ODE yesterday
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt go well either
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: no crashing or anything
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: vehicles again?
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: just horribly poor performance
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: no
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i was trying to make a row of dominos fall
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: did you try reducing contacts?
[2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it was horribly bad
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm i can't remember what its set for there
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: basically what i did was setup a dozen prims like dominos
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: they were 1.0 x 0.5 x 0.15
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: made em physical and tried knocking over 1st one setting off chain reaction
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: it literally took about 15 minutes for 12 dominos to fall over
[2012/01/31 11:16]  Sarah Kline: slow motion
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it was like 1 frame per minute
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Blues.Spiritor has anyone experimented with any other engines?
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't think so
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing anyone is sharing or will ever share
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ive heard people talk about wanting to try Nvidia Physx
[2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: but that would probably take years to work out with only or 1 or 2 people working on it
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Blues.Spiritor I was trying to get an API for Havk4 but we have no one able to write an interface in C# for us
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not sure it runs nice. as long mono get time to work on the CG. offcorse am almost hit the 4GB use on my server
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: people have been trying to make bullet work for atleast 3 years now
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadoN if YOu get a chance, could you try the commit before e20cf37 to see if that has a performance difference?
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: nobody has been trying with bullet consistently
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: sure
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats true Justin
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's not exactly 3 continuous years
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: and thats really my point
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: with only 1 or 2 folks working on it
[2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: it will take long time
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, it's not as if they're writing thep hysics engine - they just need to interface with it
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it's perfectly doable with 1 person if they already understand physics engines
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Blues.Spiritor How could we get an advertised forum to focus on it worldwide? a competition for bragging rights
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: when Adam started the Deep Think physx roject
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: which went no where
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: he estimated that if it was just him working on it
[2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: it would take him about a year to get things working
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Blues.Spiritor It gets lonely for one or two working alone...needs to be fun
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's an over-esimate
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: but I think physix is a bit more complex than ODE and Bullet
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: in terms of interfacing it with opensim
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but the use of them doesn't need to be compileda
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: really, we're just asking the physics negine to handle objects and a few other things
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: most of the work is probably tuning
[2012/01/31 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: but we havent even gotten ODE doing that correctly yet
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Blues.Spiritor how about a tuning fous thn?....a get together of minds?
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Blues.Spiritor focus
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: problem is not many people understand physics
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: its very complex math
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes, but I've only been working a few months and then not full time
[2012/01/31 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: and tbh, ODE is not that hot
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ya I know I am not trying to make light of it by any means
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Blues.Spiritor it's so hard when it's volunteer time and there is so much else one has on their plate
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: and my focus has not been on improving physics - it's been on tidying the code up enough to make it comprehensible and to stop it crashing
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying with limited resources it will take time to get any physics engine working correctly
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: well, whats going up comes down.. :)
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: it took Linden Lab over a year
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: to upgrade from Havok 3 to Havok 5
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, anybody is free to look at the physics plugins and ask questions in irc/mailing lists
[2012/01/31 11:22]  Blues.Spiritor anyone ex Linden Labbers who may get onboard?
[2012/01/31 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: I doubt it, since they would be nervous about ip issues
[2012/01/31 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: none I know of currently
[2012/01/31 11:23]  Arielle Popstar: how about an info session on the basics
[2012/01/31 11:23]  Blues.Spiritor how about an advertized competition of some ilk?
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Blues.Spiritor and yes an INFO sesion would be highly prized
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Arielle Popstar: i saw they used to have a group for coding opensim back a few years ago
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure the terms basics and physics engine is a fit
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Arielle Popstar: too bad it no longer around
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: if anybody wants to run a competition then that's great
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ya the problem is getting people to Volunteer
[2012/01/31 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: oh, not phyx. but newer viewers seems to have problems with logging out ? i think its viewer. but aby also opensim ?
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: if we were paying people, i am sure we would have people linded up to commit good code
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Blues.Spiritor Well I'd love to be offer space...but I'm a no show as far as code understanding
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: but getting people especially those who are accustomed to being payed for their work to volunteer is tough
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Blues.Spiritor Sometimes people will see pay as 'other than cash'
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: I just remembered a student I mentored for a GSoC project later wrote a 2D physics engine. Its been used in some games he wrote. Don't know if the source for that would be of any help.
[2012/01/31 11:25]  Blues.Spiritor A lot of RL people contribute for the joy
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: oh sure, OpenSim wouldnt be where we are if it wasnt for people volunteering
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but, hunting for people to volunteer
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Blues.Spiritor exactly
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: is a different beast
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: people have to want to on their own
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: otherwise its a battle
[2012/01/31 11:26]  Blues.Spiritor Well....I am not aas valuable to you all...other than being a I'll hunt
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Arielle Popstar: for some of us who would like to learn more it is difficult to get a start
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: sure that would be great
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: I am certainly not trying to discourage you
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Andrew Hellershanks: You need people who have an interest in seeing a particular feature working and have the time and skills to work on the code.
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: hi pickle
[2012/01/31 11:27]  pickle flagon: Hello
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Blues.Spiritor a clas in Physics...i'd be in big time
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: I recommend reading the book "Game Physics Engine Development"
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: there are certainly a lot of people who have never even heard of OpenSim
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's the simplest introduction that I've seen
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: i wish i knew C# code, but there's already so uch to learn
[2012/01/31 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: well most Physics engines are C++ Richardus
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Arielle Popstar: there are good youtube tuts for c#
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Blues.Spiritor The closer we get to SL functionality the more people will take notice of opensimulator
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: thats some language i not done really to. maby 5 lines :O
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: not even sure ive seen a full blown C# physics engine
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any information about the state of the Bullet code and what work still needs to be done?
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: though im sure its been attempted
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: SO, i keep my busy with other things. info, lsl :)
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: nobody will write a physics engine in c# since the gc will screw with you every time
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Arielle Popstar: but learning how it applies to opensim is much more difficult
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: Is it implementing math type stuff or fixing bugs or both?
[2012/01/31 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: I guess it depends
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: things like the Basic Physics
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: and Zero physics
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: those are C#
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: arent they
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but they're not physics engines
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: but i also would not call them full blown physics engines either
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: not even a ghost of an engine
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: and they suffer from whqat opensim suffers from, which is pauses by the gc
[2012/01/31 11:29]  Arielle Popstar: gc?
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: garbage collection
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: garbage collector
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... just before you slam your car in to the wall the gc kicks in and pauses you there for a second so you can contemplate what is about to happen
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: ;-)
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Blues.Spiritor I'll research a list of hat engines are out there for next week if you'd all like...( I'm sure Justin and Neb know them all tho)
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Arielle Popstar: loll
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: there are not many options
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: lol andrew
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: the only other viable option for opensim i suspect is Physx
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: Havok is out of the question
[2012/01/31 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: why?
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: that leaves Bullet, ODE, Phsyx
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: well the licnesing costs
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Arielle Popstar: Ubit has done some good work on the existing physics
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its incredibly expensive
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: does physcx not give problems with opensim. because lack of hardware support on the opensim server ?
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: Phyx has a software mode
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: that runs on CPU
[2012/01/31 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats nice
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: but in terms of Havok
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: its anice engine. but where is the expert
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: Intel owns Havok
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: and the Intel guys can't even use Havok
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: without buying a full blown license
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: which is very expensive
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: it appears you can get havok for free
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey:
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: win32 only though
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yes but its statick DLL no source
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: but...............
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: so?
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: and its for non commercial only
[2012/01/31 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: so?
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: does opensim not use many static dll's ?
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: well all I know is LL
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: one could still support it
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: spent a year modifying the Havok source code
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: to make it work
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey shrugs
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: osgrid is non comemrcial right ? so repsonsibility of region ? but make things complex
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: I think one of the big differences is
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: its not meant to be a server side physics
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: its a client side physics engine
[2012/01/31 11:33]  Blues.Spiritor Titanium Jones has Havoc4 but sys he needs an API
[2012/01/31 11:34]  Blues.Spiritor Is that because he's running Mac OSX Robust?
[2012/01/31 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: aha client havoc api. hmm
[2012/01/31 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: no Blue, its much more complicated than that
[2012/01/31 11:34]  Blues.Spiritor does it have to talk to server side even though it runs client side?
[2012/01/31 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: its not client side
[2012/01/31 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: in SL and OpenSim all physics are server side
[2012/01/31 11:35]  Arielle Popstar: would have to be otherwise we all see it differently?
[2012/01/31 11:35]  BlueWall.Slade I imagine it would suck for client side physics to have to update all the clients in the scene
[2012/01/31 11:35]  Blues.Spiritor Intel will provide the4 for non profits ...we haven't found a way to ue it yet
[2012/01/31 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Arielle
[2012/01/31 11:36]  Blues.Spiritor oh I get it...ty Arielle and Neb
[2012/01/31 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it not as simple as just dropping it in and having it work, like Justin said you need to make the Interface (API)
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its the same for any physics engine
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: well anyway, perhaps we should move on to any other opensim topics
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Blues.Spiritor sure
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: is the logout freeze with newer viewer opensim or viewer problem. it seems to hang
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Arielle Popstar: any ideas on the mega issue Simpy had?
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: think its viewer
[2012/01/31 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably some kind of opensim issue
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: ok..
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: Arielle, Simpy was simply pushing his hardware too hard
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Arielle Popstar: ok
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: and his network
[2012/01/31 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade justin ...
[2012/01/31 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Arielle Popstar: relief
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: while his server is nice
[2012/01/31 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: his Xeon chips are Pentium 4 level xeons
[2012/01/31 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade there was a patch on that that touched some of your code dealing with some inconsistent attachment state
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: single core x 2 physical cpus
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: with HT
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and running 49 regions in 1 simulator
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: is going to kill that machine
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Sarah Kline: lol
[2012/01/31 11:39]  BlueWall.Slade ).)
[2012/01/31 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: thanks - I'll tryu to take a look tomorrow
[2012/01/31 11:40]  BlueWall.Slade ok, I applied it
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe.. if you have som eprims sure
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: he had 60000 prims
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/01/31 11:40]  BlueWall.Slade when you get a chance, see what you think - I see no bad affects so far
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: i think it just crash on memory useage / linit with windows
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: I applied a few patches to core the past few days
[2012/01/31 11:40]  BlueWall.Slade i wanted to leave the mantis open until you had a look
[2012/01/31 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: did you see that through git blame?
[2012/01/31 11:40]  BlueWall.Slade yes
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: some good stuff
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect I just copied that code
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Blues.Spiritor Has anyone been using the old meerkat viewer? I loved it but recently it errors out
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I'd like to take a look anyway
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: meerkat, it never where stable.
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: I highly doubt anyone is using meerkat
[2012/01/31 11:41]  BlueWall.Slade the test that it was doing didn't catch it either way, lol
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Arielle Popstar: saw the notecard embed
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, most of my tests are basic stuff
[2012/01/31 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: I only usually elaborate to catch a bug of when I'm trying to udnerstand a piece of code atm
[2012/01/31 11:41]  BlueWall.Slade ++
[2012/01/31 11:42]  BlueWall.Slade if you think it's ok, then maybe close it as resolved
[2012/01/31 11:42]  Fu Barr: Fu Barr used meerkat in 1783... but has moved on to using his imprudence based abacus
[2012/01/31 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: nah, leave it open for now - I would like to take a quick look
[2012/01/31 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: today I have to work on other things
[2012/01/31 11:42]  BlueWall.Slade ohhh, yeah - that is what I meant
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Fu Barr: I must agree though - i did like meerkat :)
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok :)
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: question: about double items in inventory. do the get different uuid's to ? its one of the big buggers you always loose track of what you have.
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Claude Florimond: I forget meerkat totally...
[2012/01/31 11:43]  BlueWall.Slade for you to have a look when you can
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: or it must be client side lag ?
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: Most of the relevant patches that were in Meerkat
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ended up in Imprudence
[2012/01/31 11:43]  Arielle Popstar: any ideas yet for a osgrid supported v3 viewer?
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Kokua seems to be making steps forward
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: thats likely the best bet right now
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Arielle Popstar: nod
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Richardus Raymaker: Yes. kokua seems the future...
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Blues.Spiritor I'm using Imp now...I like the latet. Phoenix s well and Firestorm is differnt but nice
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: other TPV projects seem to have little interest/motivation to get involved
[2012/01/31 11:44]  dan banner: long way from being complete tho
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Arielle Popstar: i used it to upload a fair sixed mesh with no crashing
[2012/01/31 11:44]  Arielle Popstar: sized^
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Richardus Raymaker: i try to understand the sl3 xml files. but hard to find correct information
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Blues.Spiritor anyone know the best method to import from sketchup to opensim?
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: there is no good way
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: the most reliable method i found
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: was to use an OBJ exporter
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: its a plugin for sketchup
[2012/01/31 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: let me get you link 1 sec
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Blues.Spiritor omg ty
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: as you can see in that last link
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: i was able to import a model of the RaspberryPi motherboard
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: from sketchup to Blender to OpenSim
[2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: it gets a bit tricky though with textures
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Blues.Spiritor you have to use Blender then as the intermediary
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: Sketchup is absolutely horrible at making models
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: ^ afree
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: they are extremely inneficient
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Blues.Spiritor what's the best program you know for a neophyte?
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: agree, more intressted in simple mesh painter
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Arielle Popstar: do textures have to be baked onto the mesh in blender or 3d max before upload?
[2012/01/31 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: the only program I can say is Blender
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: meshlab crash here or get nuts (memory leak)
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: Blender , i know not easy to start with
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: CGcookie has some great tutorials
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Blues.Spiritor I tried Archipelis last year
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Sarah Kline: wings 3D is a fairly basic one
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Sarah Kline: better to bite the bullent and learn Blender
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: Wings3D is nice, but very limited
[2012/01/31 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Sarah Kline: bullet*
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: I agree, Blender is better start if your starting from scratch
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Blues.Spiritor Wish there was a 'standard' more used for common people
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: evenutally Wings3D will fail you
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: and you will be moving to blender anyway
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: agree, blender good to create to
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Sarah Kline: yup
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Fu Barr: Fu Barr has a beginners course for sculpties and blender in the works...
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: awesome Fu barr
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Fu Barr: I'll spam the relevant channels whn I'm ready to present it
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Blues.Spiritor Ok ty ...Blender t will have to be then I guess
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Arielle Popstar: nice Fu
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: nice Fu, when did you sneaked in ?
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Sarah Kline: Mesh Fu
[2012/01/31 11:49]  Taarna Welles: Woot Woot Fu!
[2012/01/31 11:50]  Sarah Kline: teach mesh gigles
[2012/01/31 11:50]  Fu Barr: when you lot where being technical and talking about yer gc
[2012/01/31 11:50]  Blues.Spiritor have you got a link Fu Barr?
[2012/01/31 11:50]  dan banner: he floated in
[2012/01/31 11:50]  Fu Barr: Fu Barr waves at some of the peeps not seen in a long time :)
[2012/01/31 11:50]  Fu Barr: link to the non-existant class... nope. i;m good, but not that good :)
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Arielle Popstar: i could use some gc for some of the meshes i already imported
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Blues.Spiritor gc?
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I have been trying to get a hold of Diva to try to address the teleport home to OSgrid after HG out of grid issue
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Arielle Popstar: garbage collection :)
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: grand canyong
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: i wish blender did have some less options non 1 page
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I think i see whats wrong, but have no idea how to fix the problem or if its even really the problem
[2012/01/31 11:51]  Blues.Spiritor lol
[2012/01/31 11:52]  dan banner: oh teleport home broke?
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          ea72428: 2012-01-19 23:09:16 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Sarah Kline: oh it had worked for me ok
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi:
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I saw others were having trouble
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: so I tested it
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: I couldnt either
[2012/01/31 11:52]  Fu Barr: learning 'blender' is 18months of wrk... but learning to use a subst of features to get stuff done for us in opensim - is a much smaller and more manageable effort.
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Sarah Kline: ah
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Blues.Spiritor That's the part I want
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect this is the problem
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: 00:42:46 - [GATEKEEPER SERVICE]: Verifying against
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Blues.Spiritor is there a tutorial just for that part?
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: the URLs don't technically match
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: even though they technically do
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/01/31 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: createing, and maby more painting mesh
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Fu Barr: @blues - there will be when i finish it and you come and join th hordes on my regions when it start running :)
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Arielle Popstar: similar issue i have with gg to my standalone with my osgrid avi
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: filter the :80 from the comparision ?
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Arielle Popstar: gg=hg
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Blues.Spiritor Will be pleased to Fu Barr
[2012/01/31 11:54]  dan banner: you have :80 in all the uri's in robust?
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Dan
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: and it only fails when you do teleport home
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: so it must be something in that function
[2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: how it requests the URL
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: if i do Tower
[2012/01/31 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade can tp back to other regions?
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: which is my home
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: it goes
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Arielle Popstar: its what the viewer reports
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: yes BlueWall
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: if i use the HG url to my home region it goes right away
[2012/01/31 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade I know I have never been able to tp from here to my dev grid
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: its only when i do a ctrl+shift+h
[2012/01/31 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade I suppose from anywhere
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: or use home on the menu it fails
[2012/01/31 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade it gives a similar message
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Blues.Spiritor btw Titanium Jones has implemented 2 tests in Nirvana...Vivox and Virwox
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Arielle Popstar: its a limitation of some routers Blue
[2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya all normal teleports for me are ok
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Blues.Spiritor omc and voice
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i of course can't speak for everyone though
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i rarely Hypergrid
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: i can TP from my home sim to my own grid. also from lbsa it works fine
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Blues.Spiritor is HG not the future of the internet in 3D?
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: but still run on older version
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: Perhaps Blues
[2012/01/31 11:56]  Arielle Popstar: its been an issue since .7.1
[2012/01/31 11:56]  BlueWall.Slade mine would probably work if I port forwarded my workstation to the outside
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Richardus Raymaker: this problem started with the new config lines ?
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Arielle Popstar: ai ai first reported it in mantis a year and a half ago
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: I really don't know, thats why i need diva to look at that pastebin
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem in OSgrid
[2012/01/31 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: is our Proxy NGINX
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: if the URL is even slightly not right
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: its going to fail
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: it complicates things a bit
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is likely the only grid using a proxy for HG right now
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe ScienceSim is too
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: but they run SimianGrid
[2012/01/31 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: so its not the same at all
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Arielle Popstar: Justin is too quiet
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Arielle Popstar: he must be plotting ;)
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: so its one reason OSgrid has more issues
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: than say teleporting between 2 standalones
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: or even other smaller grids
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm writing a commit message
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know enough about current hg details to contribute
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, i suspect Diva will know better whats going on
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: HG code is here spider web
[2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: here=her
[2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: problem is shes been pretty busy lately and not much time
[2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: she has a large class this semester
[2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: 130 students or something
[2012/01/31 12:00]  Fu Barr: bleh - that all NCPs... i recon
[2012/01/31 12:01]  Fu Barr: NPCs sowwy
[2012/01/31 12:01]  pickle flagon: sorry to interrupt there when did all u guys meet for this great pic
[2012/01/31 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: that picture was from a Virtual Worlds convention a few years ago
[2012/01/31 12:01]  pickle flagon: cool
[2012/01/31 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: the name of the convention eludes me, Justin will remember though
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: pff
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: OpenSimulator one a trophy
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: one=won
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: lol you were there
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: one one person in that photo still exists
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya
[2012/01/31 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade the CIA tracked the rest of them down
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: only 1 ?
[2012/01/31 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: well Jeff occasionaly pops his head up
[2012/01/31 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: adjohn and mikem are in IRC on occasion
[2012/01/31 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya thier contributions have fallen off
[2012/01/31 12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: aha :(
[2012/01/31 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: Adam still donates alot of the hardware OpenSimulator and OSgrid uses to stay open
[2012/01/31 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's very true
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Charles is probably the only one i can say I have no clue what he is doing anymore
[2012/01/31 12:04]  pickle flagon: i didnt mean to get u guys off topic hehe
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe thats ok Pickle
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I have to go anyway
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya the meeting is pretty much at our Hour anyway
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: See you around, folks
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: dont get lost in the matrix
[2012/01/31 12:04]  pickle flagon: bye justin come to lbsa im always there
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Fu Barr: bye justin!
[2012/01/31 12:04]  BlueWall.Slade me too. see you all next week
[2012/01/31 12:04]  dan banner: later justin
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Arielle Popstar: maybe they working on phuysics engines
[2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin, thanks for coming
[2012/01/31 12:05]  Arielle Popstar: tc Justin
[2012/01/31 12:05]  dan banner: later bluewall
[2012/01/31 12:05]  Sarah Kline: byes
[2012/01/31 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves
[2012/01/31 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade bye
[2012/01/31 12:05]  Master Dubrovna: bye jcc
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