Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-10

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[10:58] Key Gruin: check on the IRC chat
[10:58] Key Gruin: Hi Justin
[10:59] Second Life: Teleport completed from Lbsa Plaza (126,132,38)
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i don't think id even know if i was listening to a Justin Bieber song
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi viv
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: who is Justin Bieber?
[10:59] Sarah Kline: hi justin
[10:59] Mimetic Core: oh, you'd know - your intestines would eject themselves
[10:59] VivK LowlagVivK Lowlaghi Rich
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks
[10:59] VivK Lowlag: both directions
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: sure you wanne know blue ? :)
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: hello mem
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: hello mem
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[11:00] Mimetic Core: but not in the cool way they would when listening to slaye
[11:00] Mimetic Core: r
[11:00] Sarah Kline: hi all
[11:00] BlueWall Slade: Hi Sarah
[11:00] VivK Lowlag: hi Sarah
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah
[11:00] Mimetic Core: i'm still a cloud to myself :/
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: I see you Mimetic
[11:01] Mimetic Core: ok
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: mimetic: server has received your baked textures
[11:01] Mimetic Core: i think i need to nuke my cache folders
[11:01] VivK Lowlag: create an alt account and use either firestorm or phoenix you'll truely be a cloud
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: it seems that people coming in with Certain viewers, new users that is
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: who never logged in
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: are coming in naked
[11:02] Sarah Kline: If you dont clean out all your old viewer folders Viv
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be fairly recent event
[11:03] Sarah Kline: i saw at meeting
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it might still be a cap issue
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: osgNudeGrid ?
[11:03] Sarah Kline: I forgot to ask what he was on
[11:03] Sarah Kline: but he sorted himself
[11:04] VivK Lowlag: no there is more to it Sarah
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok justin, it seems rarely recent, maybe something with that InventoryFetch2?
[11:04] VivK Lowlag: the nebie clothes that come with the default won't wear
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: that actually makes sense to me VivK
[11:04] Sarah Kline: ooo
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: because of how we program that into peoples inventory
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: v2/v3 viewers might not like that, but I am not sure
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder how the latest v3 viewer handles it?
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: they probably pull them from the avatar portal that you can get to inside the V3
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: well its the Invnetory Links thing I think
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: that possible be why the OSgrid avatar doesnt set
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i'll need to test
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: I honestly do not think i have ever logged into OSgrid with new avatar using v3 before
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah - in the opensim code there is specific stuff to set up the links for the 'default' avatar
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: is there a way to reroute search with v3.2 ?
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: if that's happening consistently with new osgrid avatars then that might be the problem
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya the OSgrid website just sets up avatar that would be compatible with v1 avatars
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if the newer viewers will honor that appearance or not
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: but having avatars come in naked is also bad
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I think if you don't set up links then there might be a problem
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to be a naked ruth
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: which is odd
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello everyone
[11:07] Sarah Kline: its the naked truth
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: Hi Andrew
[11:07] VivK Lowlag: hi Andrew
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:08] Sarah Kline: hi andrew
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't stay for full meeting this week. I have to go out around the half hour mark
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I would think a gas cloud would be more appropriate, seems od its a naked ruth
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok Andrew
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: so body parts are getting into viewer but not chothes?
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: maybe we put a shape, etc. there and that is all that it needs?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: thats what it seems like Ubit
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: ++Ubit
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it also seemed possibly to be isolated to Firestorm
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it needs more testing
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: mm, then again I'm not sure we are setting up links now I look at the code
[11:09] VivK Lowlag: well the only thing that showed as worn was a skin that came from the female clothes set and I was naked then nothing else would wear
[11:10] Sarah Kline: so that was why
[11:11] Qandy Saw whispers: hey everyone
[11:11] VivK Lowlag: yeah tryiong to do things and doc spamming me with junk
[11:11] Sarah Kline: looool
[11:11] Sarah Kline: we tried telling her
[11:11] Sarah Kline: hi Q
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: Hi Qandy
[11:11] VivK Lowlag: hi Qandy
[11:11] Mimetic Core: hey qandy
[11:11] Qandy Saw: :) Sarah
[11:11] Qandy Saw: :) Blue
[11:11] Qandy Saw: VivK :)
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I did come in naked on lbsa earlier - it might still be a cap issue
[11:12] Qandy Saw: Core :)
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: also remember Last week Justin, when you crashed and came back and started that spewing?
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i had same thing happen to me
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: memit and vivb are smokeing
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah - I suspect something like the event queue is still going
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya
[11:12] Test Gnome: What were you spewing?
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe inventory download
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: andrew to, but where's justin
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: oh there lol, not used that you have clothinbg like that justin
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I had to cover my nakedness with the first thing that came to hand
[11:13] Mimetic Core: helps to keep a sock handy
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: what's the Test Gnome thing?
[11:14] Test Gnome: FUCK YES, donuts
[11:14] Test Gnome: *eats a donut*
[11:14] Sarah Kline: somebody we probably know
[11:14] VivK Lowlag: about to find the door out I presume
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: They are probably solid as a rock. Those donut's have been around for years.
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: They are the most stable donuts we have
[11:15] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods
[11:15] Mimetic Core: lol
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I setup the new SRAS on my local grid last night
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: mixed results
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: coyled is working more on it today
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i left him a nice novel to read last night in IM
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: sure its a gnome ? not a troll ? :)
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: the moses guys have started using sras
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: BTW, for anyone who cares,. or is interested, there have been some updates to ossearch and osprofile modules this past week.
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: cool
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( don't know if udl cleint circuit doesn't need something like tcp TIME_WAIT or aat least much better sequence numbers control )
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i found some issues
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( udl == udp )
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder if they are using the newest version
[11:16] VivK Lowlag: hi Dahlia
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it didnt run well for me at all
[11:16] Sarah Kline: we all care andrew )
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: nice
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: is that still on the forge?
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, UDP Universal Disaster Packet ?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: though someone with better knowledge of Ruby might have better luck
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: hmmm my ao is stuck
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, yes, the changes get committed to forge.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: Richardus :)
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya Andrew I don't know if you noticed
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: i packed up the DLL source code for ossearch and profiles
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: disable.enavble the ao dahlia
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and posted it on the OSgrid Downloads page
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: i heared something about stuck ao yestrday to
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: we are running the latest of both here now
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: cant, doesnt respons
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: respond
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: stop animation ?
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: One of the changes was a commit of a patch from BlueWall to add HG support to osprofile.
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: its because scripts are off
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: actually Snoopy brought it too my attention
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it seems that if you teleport wearing a scripted AO
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to a region with scripting enabled
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it partially fails
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: Ohh i dont wear, thats bad side witzh 3.2 you need to fall back to the scripted ones :(
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, ok. I still have to verify the correct parameter passing for notes. My local version has different order than the osgrid version I got from nebadon a while back.
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: guess I'll use my duckwalk ao then
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: heh
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Last thing I need to do is to test classifieds in osprofile and there are some other cleanups I wanted to do to the PHP code for osprofile.
[11:19] Key Gruin: heh what a pileup
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: Walk like an Egyptian
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya the Viewer based AO's are much better
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you think LL would have adapted that into their viewer by now
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: though i guess i could see AO makers being up in arms about that
[11:20] Sarah Kline: yes
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: SHame the hav enot done it nebadon
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: LL killing off their business type of rants etc..
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: hmm
[11:20] Sarah Kline: but the ao's are free
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: It would at least help if LL supported the changed animation message
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: aos are usually free, its the anims that cost
[11:20] Sarah Kline: zhao
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: um... event, not message
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, indeed.
[11:21] paulie Flomar: :)
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I have at least 3 different AO's in SL.
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: I have a huge anim collection in SL that I wish I could use here lol
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: but in SL ao's work sofar i know always. here it listen pretty strict to the land settings
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we could really use some nice AO's here
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: would be cool if we could have a module to pick up some users's animations
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: sit poses too
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of AO's in SL work by using very fast timers to check for changes in animation.
[11:21] VivK Lowlag: even sl needs decent sit poses
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Others monitor the keyboard to determine what the avatar is doing.
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice if we could use AO that always works regardless script setting.
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I've heard of scripts in SL that worked even in noscript regions. Don't know how they managed that.
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: one thing im suprised we have not seen much of here yet is the typing over rides
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: like a keyboard that rezzes when you type
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: fast timers are only fast if the sim has little load
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: typing overrides?
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: changes the typing animation
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: and to fats timers gave lag in the past
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: so you're not typing in thin air?
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and sometimes adds a fancy prop
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: huh
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: yeah
[11:23] Key Gruin: cool
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Fast timers did nasty things in OS in the past.
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: get a lot of scripted avies and the timers are real slow
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: like a keyboard that projects from a watch or bracelet
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: anyway i where shocked about the script speed in sl compared with here. some script i made
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: I have one that pops up a steampunk notebook in SL
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: sim will not have little load if having fast timers hihihi
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: arcadia made one here
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: microthreading!
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus: which was fast?
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ohgod
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: SL is going to destroy us in scripting
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: easier to say than do nebadon
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: oh i know
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying thats why SL is so much better at scripting
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: well. the flashing where much faster in sl. i needed to make the timer higer in sl to get the same flash speed
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: why they can have 15000 scripts in 1 region
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well aurora made a step on that
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: new mono will have pretty good support for asynch
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, when a script is compiled to c# it should be just as good as anythign else
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: i go update mono before i do the new opensim
[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: 15k scripts in one region? Can't say I'm too impressed the rare times it didn't brick before reaching that many
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm sure the linden simulator is written in c++
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well I think the problem is each script requires 1 thread
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab... getting ready to go out
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: where in SL thats not true
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: maby because its not microthreaded here ?
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: 1 thread can handle multiple scripts
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: only while i't srunning an event
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: the scripts are mono
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: ll change the scripts IL code etc
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, the implementation is vulnerable to one script hogging a thread, I believe
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: and I think it is a single thread
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: well ya, but the heavy scripts are vent heavy
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: event heavy
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: and use embeded mono i think
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: and it gives eash script a slot
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: like timers etc..
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: in other words, multi-tasking
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: vent heavy?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: pre-emptive multi-taksing
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: event*
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: that would make a quad core more usefull. lol
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: aurora does micro multitasking like others do, based on the nice yield proprieties
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: but... uff slow
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think it took LL years to get it right
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: they do yield injection?
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: ll do it diferently
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i remember being in casinos though
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: took them 4 yrs i think :)
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: that had 25000 scripts running
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: when Mono 2.12 is out and stable, we could get more aggresive on the requirements and provide uThreading
[11:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Must have been tiny scripts though
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: not really
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it was like 1000 slot machines
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and poker tables
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: mono site says latest stable is 2.10.8
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: 15000 scripts doing nothing? lol
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: camp chairs
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well back then they had the hope to run also c# scripts... that made thingseven harder
[11:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, but those don't really *do* that much most of the time.
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: I think they use a mono feature that lets you inject running code into a thread
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: casinos in SL were nutsy
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its amazing they worked
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: yeap blue they inject special code in IL
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: I remember a casino in SL with 100 avies
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 100 camping avis
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 500 slot machines
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: 10k scripts in the weapons sandbox in SL is pretty much a bricked sim. Most stuff there is very active though
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: 30 of them were my camp bots lol
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: so they can save and restore the script state whenever they need
[11:28] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks remembers the 1000 chairs in a region of SL that gave out stuff.
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: seems people try and get around the opensim limitations by chucking hardware at it rather than brain power
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: hardware is cheaper and easier to obtain, I expect :)
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: well
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: hardware only gets you so far honestly
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: in 1 simulator
[11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Well, depending on the bottleneck, that's sometimes the only option.
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: lol, they can't go to Walmart and buy a new brain :p
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: 4L/10 minutes 30 bots = happy dahlia
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: then there is the intel approach
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: with distributed scene graph sell 1000 servers ponzi scheme
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, it is also why obvious(?) optimizationin the OS code may not always seem too important but I figure can't hurt.
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: for now the best fix seems more scip[ts in 1 prim if you need speed
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: all software is doing that a lot... 2 slow? more hardware :)
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: anywhooo... I have to get going now. See you next week.
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: btw, why are particles not the same as in sl ?
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I still think it's important to know it's a bottleneck first
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: that is a precedent set by M$ in the 80's
[11:30] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, particles is one of those things high on my list of things to investigate
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: especially if it makes the code more complex
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: later Andrew
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of differences do you see
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i know what difference was alpha level
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem to work properlyh
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I know of one change I want to provide as a patch which doesn't complicate the code.
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: talk later
[11:31] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: ok, cheers
[11:31] Sarah Kline: byes
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: err alphas where killing sculpt maps...
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: thats OpenJPEG Ubit
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not really opensim
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: nopes
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if there's an updated openjpeg by now
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: lol OpenJPEG
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, where some particle fountain that did weird .. but need to dig more inpartciles. some fairy one did not do anything. maby because missing texture. need to jump in that more
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: was use of graphics funtions to do scalling
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and on mono also using Image.FromFile
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i know that sculpt maps that are 16 or 32 pixels in 1 dimension will not mesh properly with Meshmerizer
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: who wants sculpts if you can have betetr lod with mesh ?
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: openjpeg is ok
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: because of OpenJPG
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: they should
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: they look proper in world
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but they have wierd spikes that block movement
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: hmmm
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: alpha problem was the graphics funtions used, speciall on mono ( GTK etc)
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i'll need to test more, its possible its one of the x64 things
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: can you get me one that fails?
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: btw the blender interface looks very good. now only learn to use it
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya 1 sec Dahlia
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: but if it has alpha, the problem is alpha
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I heard that blender might be thinking of dropping collada support for now
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: i have that particle fountain script i tested not right here.
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: those fail for me
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i was on x64 Linux
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: i fixed the alpha problem dahlia
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh ya some of her stuff has some spikes
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to test more on 32 bits
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: alpha fixed?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya but they look ok
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: yeap i can tell u how on im
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its just the physics mesh seems to fail
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: i heared that someone maby makes a collada plugin then
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I thought it was an openjpeg interfacing problem
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: Blender probably will drop collada support
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it looks inevitable
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think they will
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: you're going by what nalates says or you have other info?
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: the Primstar guys were talking about a python Collada export module
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i was going by emails on the blender foundation developer email list
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: they are just raising a fuss to get the opencollada people off their butts lol
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I hope
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Ton seems hell bent on its removal
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: others too
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well or u can see my fork...
[11:36] Key Gruin: wonder if Primstar will charge for that like the sculpty one
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: but why would the remove something that would make blender get more used ?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that was still one of the open questions Key
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: why would they even cosider removing it?
[11:37] Key Gruin: ok
[11:37] Alez Kira: hi nabadon
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hee key
[11:37] Alez Kira: hi
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: hello Alez
[11:37] Alez Kira: =)
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: apparently nobody maintains it
[11:37] Key Gruin: hi Rich
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: well collada is maintained I think
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its just messy
[11:37] Alez Kira: it
[11:37] Key Gruin: yeah it sounded like the collada people don't give a darn
[11:37] Dahlia Trimble: its not been maintained for a while
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: honestly, i was kind of bummed that LL chose collada
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: because honestly
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: try loading collada models between apps
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its horrible
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: Sounds like LL
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know of any cross app alternative, though
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: they never transfer right
[11:38] Sarah Kline: obj would have been better maybe
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: but seriously... theres not a collada implementation on *anything* that works completely
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: possible bc was free/open standard ?
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Obj doesnt store animations
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you cant do rigging
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think
[11:38] Sarah Kline: ahh
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: the spec is just to huge
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: maybe Havok have example code
[11:38] Key Gruin: what would be the better alternative then?
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: honestly
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: there is no real better alternative
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that works in every modeling app
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its the best of the worst
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: lots of smaller specs that work well like .x or fbx
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: "Cream of the Crap"
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:39] Key Gruin: that sucks
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: but collada gets all the hype
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya .fbx is kind of propritary though isnt it?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its not a real open standard is it?
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: I think implementations are
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: maybe
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of stuff does support it
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: does it do rigging ?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: I know that was one of the big reaons collada was chosen
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: it does skinned meshes yes
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: the python collada exporter in blender 2.49 works with SL
[11:41] Sarah Kline: i do hope we get that parametric deformer thing by the summer
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: its in a few viewers now
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: It's not done alraedy?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya, well hopefully they can work it out
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its not done 100% yet Justin
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: beta
[11:42] Key Gruin: he's got a beta out now
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its in a review phase
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: parametic deformer ?
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya to resize clothing to the body mesh
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: ya but once it gets out, its out of control so its essentially done
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know why ll don't just re-employ qarl
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: politics I guess
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: LL politics
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: maybe he burned his bridges
[11:42] Sarah Kline: deffo
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess you must be right
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Or dont want to go back to LL.
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: LL must be the funniest organization on the planet
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm pretty sure I've read that he'd love to go back
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I can sense some pretty intense politecs in LL sometimes
[11:45] Sarah Kline: ex employees said it became a scarey place
[11:45] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: once the belts tighten.. watch out
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: actually He said on G+ he wouldnt go back
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: oh?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its in one of my posts
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: let me see if i can find it
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: hmm I havent looked at G+ or FB for months lol
[11:47] Garry Beaumont: hello Blues
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: Hello
[11:47] Garry Beaumont: oh, sorry Blue wall
[11:47] Garry Beaumont: got another blue out here in the snow
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: Haaa
[11:48] Garry Beaumont: or as he just turned blue?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: woo found it
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they sure don't make it easy to find old stuff on G+
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: then i remembered they email me when people post
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so i searched gmail and found it
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Karl Stiefvater's profile photo
Karl Stiefvater - yeah... it's complicated. in a nutshell, i feel like LL make two stupid mistakes (par for the course) but then broke a promise to me (not cool.) so. in the end it's a good thing, i was definitely unhappy there.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but its cool he is still interested in the grid
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and making it better
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: hey nalates
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks nebadon
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: hi nalates
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Max who is heading up the Deformer project funding aspects
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: is a good friend of mine
[11:51] Nalates Urriah: Hey Justin
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we have talked a lot about it
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics today, as we're nearing the hour?
[11:52] dan banner: any ideas about the standup bug?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: standup bug?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: the linkset stand up rotation issue
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: where it always assumes the linkset is rotated to 0,0,0
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: when you stand
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and you stand in the wrong spot
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: is this recent?
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: I thihnk we'll be plagued with problems in that area until we start linking the avatars like LL
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: not really no
[11:53] dan banner: standup is fine if the root prim is 0,0,0 rotation
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: still need to upgrade. maby next week
[11:53] dan banner: otherwise you get tossed around
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: i see that quciksand syndroom still
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya you stand up to the location where you would be if you rotateed the couch to 0,0,0
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so on big couches its very noticable and shocking
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you fly pretty far
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats why this big couch here is unlinked
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't know what's happening there
[11:54] Qandy Saw: or de-link
[11:54] dan banner: ya unlinking it makes the issue go away but doesnt solve the problem
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya not at all
[11:55] Qandy Saw: i know
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: kind of a pain
[11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          a22d0dc: 2012-01-10 09:58:53 -0800 (Unix/Mono)
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: is there btw a way to know how many vivox regions osgrid have now ?
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the odd thing too
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: is i added some debug
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: hard to say, jus curious
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and the console prints out the right coordinates
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but the viewer was not getting them
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i sort of got lost at that point
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: didnt know where to look next
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: maybe the viewer is assuming something
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: the wierdest part is
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: only vivox themselves could easily count vivox regions
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it works fine on Avination
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and melanie has copied all the code she thought was involved into core
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and its still not right
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: in SL, when you link prims the root starts at 0, like here
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: shes as stumped as me
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: still, it means there is a code difrference somewhere
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just a bugger to find
[11:56] dan banner: ya has to be
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: actually
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: let me check something
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i can maybe tell you how many vivox regions
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: if he hasnt cut me off yet
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: if you add new prims, they ago to 0 if you select it last, or to the highest if you select it last
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: when an avatar sits - it is added as the last link
[11:57] dan banner: thats only going to show all free vivox grids and standalones neb
[11:57] dan banner: not just osgrid
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: holy shit
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm :)
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: 1342 regions
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: that's quite a few
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats for all of opensim though
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: not just osgrid
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but still
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats more than I expected
[11:58] Sarah Kline: quick takeup
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:58] Qandy Saw: :) after all people like talk ;)
[11:58] dan banner: i suspect it will increase a lot more
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: except us :)
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: even if you add up all the grids and standalones though
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: what is their NDA?
[11:58] Qandy Saw: hehe
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: but then voice isn't an easiyl recordable medium
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: concurent uses is like 1% of what the account can handle
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: er, semantically recordable
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: oh I don't know - ig nore me :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: it can handle 25000 concurent
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: also
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: smxy told me last night
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can chat between OSgrid region and a Standalone or private grid
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: if your HG friends
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: and your on the free vivox account
[11:59] Key Gruin: thats cool
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ive not tested that much
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: huh, interesting. accident of implementation though :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its possible you may need to visit same region at some point
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but he was doing it
[11:59] dan banner: you mean like the "call" feature?
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i said he initiated it via IM or something
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno have to ask him how he did it
[12:00] dan banner: ya
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: he mentioned it in #opensim-dev last night
[12:00] dan banner: i didnt have much luck even across sandboxes with that
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its possible some methods might not work
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you might need to start it up in same sim
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: then teleport
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea
[12:00] dan banner: nod
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: right now you can start IM and hop top other regions. someone told me alos not voice regions
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if it has no voice
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it will carry
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: can be handy .. :)
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you jump to a region that has another voice account
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it will probably get disrupted
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: other people would hear your voice on the no voice region?
[12:01] Sarah Kline: its all handled by their servers once initiated
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i suppose it depends on how its initiated justin
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you can private call each other
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we tested it in the same region
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: the Vivox module should remove it when they leave
[12:01] Sarah Kline: and back down to viewer
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: yes, voice is nice. especially if its own language
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it didnt seem to work when we called between 2 differnt regions though
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: but you might be able to start it up then leave the region and it will continue i suspect
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off now. See you next week, folks
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks Justin, talk soon
[12:02] Sarah Kline: bye Justin
[12:03] Qandy Saw: tc Justin
[12:03] Nalates Urriah: bye Justin
[12:03] Taarna Welles: Justin
[12:03] Taarna Welles: *-* Mmm ByE ByE *-*
[12:03] dan banner: bye justin
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
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