Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-06

From OpenSimulator

Jump to: navigation, search
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: hi Key, MD
[11:23] Dutchy Daredevil: Astra is fuine now
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: btw Neb, have you ever seen a phenomena where a scene opresence is completely invisible to someone?
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: not even a name tag
[11:23] Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: (greetings)
[11:23] Key Gruin: HI VivK L, Arielle, BlueWall, Justin, Neb, all
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: Hi Ubit
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: not completely Justin
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: hi key
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ubt
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: Hi Ubit
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ubit
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: but there have been times lately where parts of the scene turns invisible
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ive noticed it myself
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: with Imp 1.4x?
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:24] VivK Lowlag: I've seen it in Astra once or twice
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: yeah, I noticed that parts would go missing when it came out
[11:24] Dutchy Daredevil: Cool Neb
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: I still use 1.3.0 because of that
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: stop with that, its way to load the media. dont understand why the slider refuse.
[11:24] Dutchy Daredevil: no more frozen now
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: music / media almost at zero
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall, don't move a muscle
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, I think its stuff that plays through flash
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: the volume slider does not work
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: anything that goes through gstreamer or quicktime would though
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall: ok, you can move if you want
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: what was up?
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: you were grey but resending your appearance data fixed it
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: uch.. i disanled media complete now. youtube always to load
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: which implies I didn't receive it properly originally
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hum
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: hmm
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: hum, no inworld is maby not hard enough.
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: ok, I did a rebake to see if I got error messages
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: when did you rebake?
[11:28] Key Gruin: oops I just rebaked too, hope it did't confuse the data
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: a few min agao
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: after I relogged
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: pff, thanks a lot key :)
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: hi key
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I see everyone fine
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: apar tfrom bluewall just now
[11:29] Key Gruin: hi Rich
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh dave your looking mighty oompaloop
[11:29] Dave.Coyle :)
[11:29] Key Gruin: I'm amazed the scene rezzed so fast for me here
[11:30] Dave.Coyle i just created the grid i came from a few mins ago and don't have any inventory. so might as well go oompa loompa.
[11:30] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi dave
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ah cool
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: simiangrid?
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: or robust?
[11:30] Dave.Coyle robust
[11:30] Dave.Coyle i don't know the current state of HG in SG
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: cool, was wondering if you were testing simiangrid HG stuff
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: was having an interesting conversatio nwith Mic earlier about reaping stuff from the asset db
[11:30] VivK Lowlag: I miss the sombrero
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: hi dave
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: he thinks it should be possible with access times and backups of old ata
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: so that's wah yr a bit short dave?
[11:30] Dave.Coyle i have it somewhere
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just don't kow Justin, its risky business for sure
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: (.. why...)
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt its theoreticly possible
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but id be afraid to mess with peoples assets myself
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's easier in a situation where one entity controls and entire grid, for instance.
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: you mean cleanup the database to compress it ?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: even if you tell people to backup t ooars/iars they don't necessarily do it....
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no, just delete unaccessed assets
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: iars are a bit painfull to save
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: i better stop procrastinating on a new iar
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: how big is the assets data now?
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: 1.1tb
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: yeah. it feels sometimes bad to build or rezz :O more load on db.
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: @.@
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: but sooner or later it must be done soemway
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: that's with dups removed too?
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( and not counting trash? ;) )
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: well we are going to instiute compression soon, that should buy us some time I think
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: trash, i think many never empty that.
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought you were alreayd compressing in sras?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: might take a moth to compress
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: i did it once already big
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no im talking about gzipping assets
[11:34] Mimetic CoreMimetic Core empties his trash...
[11:34] Dave.Coyle sras supports compression. osgrid isn't presently using it.
[11:34] Key Gruin: just got for of these viewer errors after a rebake:
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: can't it be automated ?
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: trash emptying doesn't help anyway
[11:35] Key Gruin: four*
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dave: ah, right
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: right
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: we update timestamps on access?
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: :(
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: that makes it hard
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: you don't need to update very time anyway, just occasionally
[11:36] Dave.Coyle makes what hard?
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: say if last update time was more than a month ago
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: access time, I mean
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: to know when it is last accesssed
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno to me that sounds potentially expensive, someone mentioned updating it only when it was about to expire or something, but I don't know how that would manage to work
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: possible robust etc needs some love to optimiza better db use
[11:36] Dave.Coyle doesn't understand why anyone is intereted in last access time
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: something has to be done about assets evnetually
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: yeah, I noticed we use replace into
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: Dave.Coyle: the idea is to archive assets which have not been accessed, say, in the last 6 months
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya but then what
[11:37] Dave.Coyle why? disk is cheap.
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: but you think you can grow forever? :)
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: what about script, do the get updated, or everytime a new one ?
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: a distributed hash table to cover the planet, perhaps?
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: what is the rate it is increasing by?
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: every time you save a script that's a new copy
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: it makes a new asset?
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: we have not really monitored it to that level Arielle
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: eep
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: it's the architecture of sl
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: copy on write
[11:38] Dutchy Daredevil: in events they using different times to be used
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but the grid is 4 1/2 years old
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and its got 1.1tb of assets
[11:38] Dutchy Daredevil: its not GMT in been told
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: I had a lot in my grid
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: It should save only the current version of a script
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: compression might get that down to 600gb maybe
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: but if you knew some of those assets hadn't been accessed for 4 years
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: 600-700 i suspect
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I think they would be good candidates for archiving
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: yeah
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya but what happens when someone wants them?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: then what
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: they should have kept backups? :)
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah yeah, I know :)
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: I noticed that some things took a while when I went to SL one day
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ok how do they get to the backups?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:39] Arielle Popstar: so could be another 2 years before you have 2 Terybytes\
[11:39] Dave.Coyle justin: no, it won't last forever. but it doesn't need to.
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: I suspect they dumped my stuff to an archive
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: dave.coyle: You're expecting global warming to do us in?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: haa
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: 2012 is coming up here quick
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: we should be alright ti'll then
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhh :)
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, who sees grey people!
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: UNIX time runs out in 2038 or something
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ?
[11:40] Ceecee Flores: I see world and avatars fine
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how that will get fixed
[11:40] Key Gruin: I can see all fine
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: no Grays
[11:40] Dave.Coyle justin: who is having real problems with asset storage?
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: Daloona Lyle is clear
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Dave.Coyle: no actual problem, I admit - just people nagging me
[11:41] Dave.Coyle all this talk about culling assets... what real problem is this solving
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: except for the attached clothes
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: if you want to solve it, start charging per-inventory item
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall: any difference?
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: storage
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: charing gis not appropriate in all use cases
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: neb can say how hard the database crow with user count
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: nope
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I see Daloona just fine, I have to say
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: I know - but as long as it's free, it will grow
[11:42] Dave.Coyle 5 years worth of osgrid assets... all of them, can fit uncompressed on a $150 hard drive. where's the problem that needs to be solved?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suspect in reality culling assets would save us at most maybe 10% of space
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of work for little reward i suspect
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I tihnk you're vastly underestimating neb
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: I think this have slowed down since the last SL policy about exporting inventory
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: dave: that is a good argument. I'll present that the next time I'm nagged :)
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and see what people come up with
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably more a problem having assets in the db in robust
[11:43] Dave.Coyle yeah
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya that def has shelf life
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: 10% only?
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno Andrew its hard to say
[11:43] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: with the asset deduping
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: alot of the old assets are already gone
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: into 1 asset
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice if a prim you only use once and onloy private would be deleted complete
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: plus alot of that old stuff is still used
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, true. deduping due to sras already saves a lot of space
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: your assuming none of it is being used
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, does anybody else have any other opensim issues today?
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I still don't see profile working on my standalone OS instance :-)
[11:45] Key Gruin:
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Key Gruin
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: did you see that today here at WP?
[11:45] Key Gruin: is that an opensim issue or viewer
[11:45] Key Gruin: yes Neb
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ack
[11:45] Key Gruin: just a few minutes ago
[11:45] Key Gruin: after a rebake
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: blah
[11:45] Key Gruin: 4 of them
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: inventory losses with hg jumps
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: they do happen
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: but frequency may be changed
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: No handler resgister for lldd request ?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: one way of reducing assets ;)\
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: yeah, I think diva may look at that soon
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: lsld i mean
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: 3rd time lucky?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess 1 out of 16 isnt too bad
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: If anyone here has been using the ossearch module, there have been some updates in the last week. Some bugs were fixed, some improvements made to a few searches, and it will now show events on map
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: 1 out of 16?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i just have not heard anyone mention that llsd thing for a long time
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: 1 out of 16 avatars
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: getting that error
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: it was a lot higher before?
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its just been a long time since anyone has mentioned it
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall anyone mentioning it for a long time
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: until this week
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really say, ive never experienced it
[11:48] Key Gruin: it just started popping up again
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I did make a change which might have increased the frequemcy
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: go it on lbsa yesterday checking apperance neb
[11:49] Dave.Coyle fwiw i got a 'failed to upload' popup here earlier too but i didn't read the message enough to know if it said the same thing. just assumed it was new grid + hg wonkiness.
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: we reverted it for this meeting. So I'm not sure if the one you saw is at the previous level of frequency or whether reverting the change had no effect
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya i need to update lbsa to really know
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: that is where everyone has been talking about it happening the most
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: i saw it coming in also for 4 different things
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i'll get that updated asap
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: 8 people there at the moment
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, update lbsa then let me know
[11:50] Key Gruin: I'll go there and try after you upate Neb
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:51] VivK Lowlag: you can count me to help test
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool, that would be good anyone who is experiencing it often
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: try after a teleport-vs-direct login too
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: I got them after teleporting here
[11:51] Key Gruin: ok
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: after relogging, I don't get them
[11:52] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          8721841: 2011-12-06 18:37:13 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya dan has been telling everyone to relog
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: well, one thing with doing asset reaping is people would feel more comfortable uploading baked textures to the asset service
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: and, I was re-routed too
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: usually it won't happen after they do
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: then we wouldn't need to ask for rebakes on every teleport/login, which would improve appearance
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: is there a way to make the region cache them?
[11:52] Key Gruin: I wonder if it was necessary for me to rebake at that point?
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: region already caches them
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: about assets saw what's wrong around or about that multicast delegate i showed you justin ?
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: but the mechanism not to ask doesn't yet exist
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: ubit: it looks fine to me
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: couldnt we just save bakes in a special way?
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: need more evidence that there's a problem
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so they always get overwritten?
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: is there a good reason to put them on the assets server?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but it is not justin.. pragmaticly speaking
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I don't know off the top of my head
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall: so if you teleport elsewhere the regio ncan juts fetch them
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: instead of doing the tricky rebake
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: could we send them with the avatars other assets?
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: I guess that could get out of hand
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not fond of that approach since it leaves you at the mercy of bad simulators
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, faulty rather than malicious
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: the same problems that might be occuring around teleport
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: or even just bad network connections rather than faulty
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: and that does assets requested 'at same time' as i said
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: does afect
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: ubit: the code appears correct
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: ubit: I couldnt' see any reason that all event handlers wouldnt be called
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: justin.. you say well apears
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I dont' have the time to actually test it
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: so, maybe we can come up with some scheme to remove those after a while?
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall: yes, have access times and reap aftre a period
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: my avatar is probably the only one in the metaverse that never changes
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: we even know that the assets are marked temporary in this case....
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: do the dynamic textures act that way too?
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: it's too bad we can't probe for unused assests
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: it's impossible except in closed systems
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: how about oars?
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: what about them?
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: they keep a copy
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: so?
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: I'm just thinking
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[11:57] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey is getting increasinly cantankerous in his old age.
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: you could save all oars, but that doesn't help with inventory
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: what are the cases that probing for unused assets would hang us?
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: you could stop the grid, save all oars and all iars, maybe
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: but you have to persuade all regions to do it
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: which is okay if you control them all
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: no, I was thining the reverse
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: you can't identiyf unused assets wihtout taking all oars and iars
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: if we probe for unused assets and remove some - maybe an oar is using them...
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: as long as the oar saved the assets it's fine
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: but, that is the purpose of an oar, lol
[11:58] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey doesn't understand
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: and how to kknow it is a unused thing ?
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: we would have to probe all the prims/primitems in each region
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: all objects, scripts, notecards......
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya the stuff i worry about is stuff in inventory
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: that is coded in script
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: for a certain UUID
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oars and iars chase that stuff down
[12:00] VivK Lowlag: some firewalls wouldn't take to kind to a probe
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: like calling up textures by the uuid
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: it would be impossible
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: or sounds
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: there woudl have to be code in the region
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: someone logs out for a year
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: the code already exists for oars/iars
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and comes back, all their stuff is broken
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: yeah, think the sit pos thing was an issue
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we have people all the time coming into IRC saying i havent logged in for a year
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: O.O
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and i forgot my password
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: or forgot what email i used
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, as it's not an issue for osgrid I wouldnt' worry about it
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: might do access times at some point, but reaping woul dbe an extenral opeeration anyway
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: and even then. access times are purely service side
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: alright )
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hmm I think of more importance
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: would be to figure out why the damn simulators leak memory
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: WP has almost trippled memory usage
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: haa
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: since start of meeting
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: empty fresh sim is like 500mb on show stats
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its now reading 1331mb
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: I have had a single script in a region with almost nothing else eat up 7G in less than an hour before.
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya me either
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: mono issue or OS isssue causing leaks?
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need to go. See you around, folks
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: it would make a bit more sense if we were all building and scripting or something
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: wel it got us.. our prims our texts etc
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but we have just been chatting
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, Justin
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: thnkas JCC, have a good evening
[12:04] Key Gruin: bye Justin
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok later Justin, thanks for coming
[12:04] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
Personal tools
About This Wiki