Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-09

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Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid

Visitor List:
Nebadon izumi
Derika Juran
Charles Krinke
Penny Lane
Richardus Raymaker
Kitto Flora
paulie Flomar
Orion Hax
Justin Clark-Casey
Bri Hasp
Brent Seidel
WhiteStar Magic
Static Sprocket
Mic Bowman
Starky Rubble
Muck Woodget
Isabele Auer
Snoopy Pfeffer
Master Dubrovna
Fredo Chaplin
Andronicus Dragon
tx Oh
PocoLoco Darwin
Vette Chrome
Brenda Fall
Maria Korolov
Total = 25
Done resetting.
[09:54] Charles Krinke is Online
[09:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[09:55] Connected
[09:56] Charles Krinke: Morning, sir.
[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: hey
[09:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[09:56] Connected
[09:56] Charles Krinke: are you and I the last two avatars left in the MEtaverse? Did the 'bomb' go off?
[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya strange no one is here
[09:57] Charles Krinke: Looks like a couple down below according to the mini-map
[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: cool ya im sure everyone will show up soon
[09:58] Script saved
[09:58] Compile successful
[09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1: Enter the title number OR a youtube URL at /4
[09:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[09:58] Connected
[09:59] Charles Krinke: Let me try to plant a seed while we are waiting. "I think it is a good idea to see if we can empower/appoint a couple of regular users from #osgrid to help in community development with a few more dedicated "Hours" of one sort or another"
[09:59] Nebadon Izumi: youtube player doesnt seem to be working
[09:59] Charles Krinke: rats
[09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1: Enter the title number OR a youtube URL at /4
[09:59] Charles Krinke: Hi, Richardus, Penny, Kitto
[09:59] Kitto Flora: Hello
[09:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[09:59] Connected
[09:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi cherles, neb, kitto, penny
[09:59] Compile successful
[10:00] Richardus Raymaker: sry charles
[10:00] Penny Lane: Hi Charles, Neb, Kitto, Richardus
[10:00] paulie Flomar is Online
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: aha
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: differnt script worked
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: this one uses differnt proxy
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[10:00] Kitto Flora: Av updates are .. a little messed up in this version?
[10:00] Richardus Raymaker: your script dont waork anymore ?
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: no it was the proxy
[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes one works
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: and the other doesnt
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: its the same script actually
[10:01] Richardus Raymaker: aha
[10:01] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, all.
[10:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:01] Connected
[10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi paulie. welcome to the hot the sit curses
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: hey paulie
[10:01] paulie Flomar: :)
[10:01] paulie Flomar: ty ty
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi whispers: let me announce meeting in IRC
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: brb
[10:01] Charles Krinke: I guess the first question of the morning is do we advance the "recommended" from last weeks r9740 to r9801 or a different version for this week or not.
[10:02] paulie Flomar: Im running 9815. Seems ok.
[10:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[10:02] Richardus Raymaker: run that version since yesterday
[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok i told everyone
[10:02] Charles Krinke: cool, Paulie, thanks
[10:02] Orion Hax: hi
[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: give everyone a couple of minutes to show up
[10:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi orion
[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: since it seems so light today
[10:02] Bri Hasp is Online
[10:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:02] Charles Krinke: no problem. Open questions and answers until things get a bit more formal.
[10:02] Connected
[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justincc
[10:03] Orion Hax: i got the boot about 10 minutes ago from here
[10:03] Mic Bowman is Online
[10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello nebadon, hello folks
[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: sorry orion
[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: i usually restart the region before the meetings
[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[10:03] Orion Hax: ah hehehe
[10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: is it just me or is landing much more difficult nowadays?
[10:03] Charles Krinke: I havent noticed a difference, myself
[10:04] Charles Krinke: Mic. Hello to you, sir.
[10:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:04] Connected
[10:04] Bri Hasp: this place Re'zs faster
[10:04] Mic Bowman: hi charles
[10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Hey Mic
[10:04] Kitto Flora: Justin: Do you mean ' Av tends to flounder above ground rather than standing'?
[10:05] Mic Bowman: hi justin...
[10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: kitto: no, but that's another well known issue, maybe even with the same cause
[10:05] Charles Krinke: Whoa, Nebado, the "Felt" tower just rezzed for e out he winow and I have been here for 10 minutes.
[10:05] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:05] Connected
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[10:06] Charles Krinke: Ok, shall we start?
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: were you camming by chance?
[10:06] Penny Lane: Is it known why we have to manually rebake several times here before all our bits shows up? Just waiting doesn't seem to do it.
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: could be your draw distance maybe
[10:06] Bri Hasp: is that America's Most Wanted on that prim?
[10:07] Charles Krinke: Cam is pulled back so I can see the group and the Felt tower direction is in my view, but camera position has not changed for 10 minutes
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya its probably just everyone logging in
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: things bog down for a bit
[10:07] Charles Krinke: I assume it just loaded to my client
[10:07] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:07] Connected
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: the youtube script also isnt responding 100% either
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: probably lagging
[10:07] WhiteStar Magic: I just had to alphabet walk my inventory
[10:08] Charles Krinke: I guess the first question of the morning is do we advance the "recommended" from last weeks r9740 to r9801 or a different version for this week or not.
[10:08] Compile successful
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: ?? the webpage shows already 9801
[10:08] Bri Hasp: 9818 runs well for me
[10:09] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:09] Connected
[10:09] paulie Flomar: 9815 works for me. id say bumpt it.
[10:09] Charles Krinke: so far we have votes for 9801, 9815 & 9818. Any others?
[10:09] Charles Krinke: I am happy going to 9818 if no one objects.
[10:09] paulie Flomar: 9815 seems to have Mcortez cache in trunk.
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: ive not done much past 9801 yet myself
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i only have 1 simulator i think beyond that
[10:09] paulie Flomar: maybe advanrageous to go with that one?>
[10:09] Charles Krinke: I suspect we will have some bumps in the road later today with some changes about to be checked in by Diva.
[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i stay at 9815 for now. try to slowdown
[10:10] Charles Krinke: If we are prepared for bumps, it might not be as big a problem.
[10:10] Penny Lane: What's Diva working on atm?
[10:10] Mic Bowman: i admit that i've chickened out on some of the more recent updates... how stable is 9801 compared to 0.6..4 releases?
[10:10] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:10] Compile successful
[10:10] Connected
[10:10] paulie Flomar: stable? whats that? :)
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: lol
[10:10] Mic Bowman: it's all relative man
[10:10] Mic Bowman: :-)
[10:11] WhiteStar Magic: I'm not having anywhere near the amount of issues with 9801 as with previous versions
[10:11] Bri Hasp: on OSG we have few choices
[10:11] Charles Krinke: Well, we tend to push the bleeding edge here.
[10:11] paulie Flomar: 9815 has run ok for me.
[10:11] WhiteStar Magic: I think the big difference too has been teh Flotsam Cache improving a lot
[10:11] Bri Hasp: yep
[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: seems to run ok for the hours i use it
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya flotsam cache has been really good improvment
[10:11] Mic Bowman: i measure stability in hours per week spent restarting... <5 == stable, >20 == revert
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
[10:12] paulie Flomar: Mic: nice
[10:12] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:12] Charles Krinke: A tagged release is generally the most stable. A "recommended" is merely a one week long version that has *some* testing on at least one region overnight and exists for those that want to be near head, but have some modicum of functionality
[10:12] Connected
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: for us restarts definatly are down
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the windows plazas can go days
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: without needing restarts
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: linux is a bit more fragile still
[10:12] Mic Bowman: my scisim regions have been up on 9345 for > 10 days
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: with visitors?
[10:12] Mic Bowman: yes
[10:13] Charles Krinke: How many visitors/day would you say, Mic?
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: what is memory usage like?
[10:13] Mic Bowman: peak is usually 10-ish per day
[10:13] Mic Bowman: 10 simulataneous
[10:13] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:13] Connected
[10:13] Mic Bowman: memory usage goes up as expected
[10:14] Mic Bowman: and CPU utilization steadily climbs over a week
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: many scripts running?
[10:14] Mic Bowman: >2000
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: wow, quite a few then
[10:14] Mic Bowman: spread over 4 sims
[10:14] Bri Hasp: this weeks mono and nant helped leaks a lot
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: my heaviest region has about 1000 scripts
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: and 12000 prims
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: it crashes maybe once a week
[10:14] Charles Krinke: We are having about 2000 logins/day on OSGrid this month and most days around 50-60 simultaneous on all regions. I would say this region probably gets 250-500 visitors/day.
[10:15] Mic Bowman: far more load than what we see
[10:15] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:15] Connected
[10:15] WhiteStar Magic: this region is Win-7 ?
[10:15] Charles Krinke: Course, you probably have better servers, too, Mic
[10:16] Mic Bowman: that would e a rasonale asumptins
[10:16] Mic Bowman: :-)
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i cant move
[10:16] Mic Bowman: reasonable assumption
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else?
[10:16] Charles Krinke: Ok, getting back to it, the question is 9801, 9815, 9818 or other?
[10:16] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:16] Connected

<sim crashed several minutes of sim recovery>

[10:34] Mic Bowman is Online
[10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use 9818 without problems till now
[10:34] paulie Flomar: Im listenin to Regina Spektor, so I cant be sad. :) :)
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: 9815 seems to run fine to
[10:35] Bri Hasp: yep
[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: since 9817 my patch for group permissions is included :)
[10:35] Bri Hasp: waz this?
[10:35] Brent Seidel: I just finished compiling 9815...
[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: group permissions for land and objects
[10:35] paulie Flomar sings: just a breakin my HEART! just a breakin my HEART@
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: not tried the land tool
[10:35] Penny Lane: What's a crash in this context? An Opensim trapped error, or a system CLR fault?
[10:35] Bri Hasp: 9815 here
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: hey guys
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, do you have the log ?
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: sorry
[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: if you like to share land and builds with group members
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: wb
[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Neb
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: the log is a total disaster
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: there are no errors though
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: the region didnt crash
[10:36] paulie Flomar: aaaand we're back!
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: it just went to 0fps
[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh
[10:36] Richardus Raymaker: i have one till the question "anyone else"
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: there were no errors
[10:36] Kitto Flora: Locked up
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was simple frozen
[10:36] paulie Flomar: well, that sprogress. :)
[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: I sometimes see that on 2 of my sims
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i had to kill the process to recover
[10:36] Charles Krinke is Offline
[10:36] Penny Lane: CLR locked up, or Opensim went into a hard loop?
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: not sure
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: Samsara and Paradise are my trouble makers from time to time
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: console was responding
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: but i couldnt log in
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: and FPS read 0
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:37] Kitto Flora: Thats what the client stats was showing for me - the connection was good, but no legit traffic
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: no errors
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: all looks ok
[10:37] Richardus Raymaker: especially samsara i see go down
[10:37] Richardus Raymaker gave you WP log part_2009-06-09.
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: ooh
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: you mean chat log
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:37] Kitto Flora: Lsb..? Plaza did go off though I think
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you meant console log
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i did have this
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: thanks richard
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Rich
[10:37] Richardus Raymaker: betetr one to much..
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: about all 2 days I see that
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: after 2 days mine need resstart to. but it still runs fine
[10:38] Charles Krinke is Online
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: 2 days = swapping
[10:38] Kitto Flora: Humm - the weird warning has gone away
[10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: Dorothea has send a group notice
[10:38] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: it works here
[10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Charles
[10:39] Fredo Chaplin is Online
[10:39] paulie Flomar: wb, ck. :) :)
[10:40] Fredo Chaplin: Hi Justin
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: sorry im quiet im watching the console
[10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:40] Charles Krinke: Well, this is more of a stress test then a business meeting, today, but we need to be reminded we are mortal once in a while.
[10:41] paulie Flomar: mortal? say it aint so!
[10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi tx
[10:41] Penny Lane: Talking about stress tests, is there something like scripted testing available?
[10:41] Richardus Raymaker: hi tx
[10:41] Charles Krinke: Did we agree on 9815 for "recommended"? Are then any requests/announcements from developers?
[10:41] tx Oh: huhu
[10:41] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Hax and Oh.
[10:41] Muck Woodget: Hi tx
[10:41] Brent Seidel: I feel fine. It gave me an excuse to get up and fill my water bottle.
[10:41] Isabele Auer: Hello Tx
[10:41] paulie Flomar: :) 9815 +1
[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: wow, I'm impressed so many people came back
[10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: 9817 includes group permissions
[10:41] UUID Speaker: Centaurus Avalon: 0d75f283-337b-a68b-7ebd-a88f77bd46a0
[10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe ppl like to test that
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think we have more people now
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: than before the crash
[10:42] UUID Speaker: Centaurus Avalon: 0d75f283-337b-a68b-7ebd-a88f77bd46a0
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin
[10:42] Charles Krinke: We live on every pearl of wisdom that drops of your fingertips like glowing plutonium, Justin
[10:42] paulie Flomar: +1
[10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hello countrymen
[10:42] paulie Flomar cheers!!
[10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ckrinke: ha ha - you have a nice line in sarcasm, CHarles :)
[10:42] paulie Flomar: huzzah!
[10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: 18 avatras here ?
[10:43] Penny Lane: Sounds like an Indian god
[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: lol
[10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: head seems to be quite good at the moment
[10:43] paulie Flomar: we're all just so happeh to BE here!
[10:43] Charles Krinke: Justin. Without you here, this meeting would loose a lot of its luster, and that is not sarcasm, Justin
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: well, that's very kind of you. Though I think OpenSim is growing beyond the answers I can give - a lot of the topics I don't have a huge amount of insight into
[10:44] Brent Seidel: I'm a noon so I come here to learn stuff.
[10:44] Brent Seidel: make that noob
[10:44] Charles Krinke: Ok, open questions (and I hope answers)
[10:44] Compile successful
[10:44] Charles Krinke: focus on activities we can accomplish in the next week, please.
[10:44] WhiteStar Magic: is teh move to 9815 with Flotsam a Go ?
[10:45] paulie Flomar: +1 from me
[10:45] Charles Krinke: Any objections, Nebadon to 9815 with flotsam?
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: no
[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: can someone looks at the code required for object inventory item sharing?
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: it does however need more testing
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: but so far its looking great
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: no objections here
[10:45] Charles Krinke: 9815 with flotsam for "recommended". Lets test it, break it, mantis it, drive mcortez nuts.
[10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: i like flotsam.
[10:46] Bri Hasp: is solid a whole 3/4 day on Net server
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: what do you mean?
[10:46] Charles Krinke: and, Melanie, too. Dont forget to drive her nuts with cache questions, too.
[10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: I mean that you cannot set object inventory items as shared at the moment
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: something seems very wrong with scripts
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: dunno if its just lag or what
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: but this youtube script is not working at all
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: with group permissions that's a restriction
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: taks minutes to respond
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: because they are never shared by the group
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: oh right. Sounds like a Melanie topic as she has done most of the permissions work
[10:47] Penny Lane switches to blonde in case she thinks of a dumb question
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I know
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe mcortez if it's group stuff
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: she has said that this part is till missing
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: still*
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: no it is in the core
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: Melanie is te right person or someone else I dont know
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: CPU is not 100%
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: so it cant be that effecting scripts
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: has to be some kind of locking happening or sometihng
[10:49] Charles Krinke: Well, we 1) Whine and complain 2) Mantis 3) Confirm Mantis 4) Whine and complain some more.
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone else noticed increased CPU usage?
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: on their own regions that is
[10:49] tx Oh: cpu usage is always an issue :-)
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya im talking about major increase
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, you mean memory is always some isseu
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: cpu utilization is much lower with the new versions
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya not on this server
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: cpu seems still pretty stable at my server.
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: cpu is way up
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure why
[10:50] tx Oh: yes, it's a bit higher in avg
[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: whine. complain, and whine in Mantis? :)
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: j2k ?
[10:50] Primitive: Setting new media URL. The old URL was:
[10:50] Primitive: New media URL set:
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: and also memory is less on an issue with the flotsam cache
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: thats good
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: really tx? hm
[10:51] Charles Krinke: No, the whining and complaining should be on IRC. That way, we keep everyone off balance.
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its possible its something isolated to this box
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: I experience the opposite
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen it some revisions back that after startup cpu jumps high. i found a few bad scripts
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: since i removed the scripts it runs fine
[10:51] Charles Krinke: Does shutting off scripts from the estate manager window not work anymore?
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: look in estate toolsif you can see scripts with high numbers in first row
[10:52] Richardus Raymaker: did that worked anyway ?
[10:52] Charles Krinke: It used to work fine.
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure Charles
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i think it does
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have a lot of scripts
[10:52] Charles Krinke: That is how we have been diagnosing CPU usage issues with scripts befor.
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: it can be pretty disasterous
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: especially with a crowd like this
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: not a good idea to do something like that
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but it should work still i think
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: you should see the console unloading the scripts
[10:53] Charles Krinke: Well, after the crowd leaves, perhaps turn off scripts and see if the CPU usage goes down and stability goes up?
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok well Lbsa has like no scripts
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: and .like 1/50th the prims and textures
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: it runs worse than this region does
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is acting really bad
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe just increased traffic
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i logged in there yesterday
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: there was 12 people
[10:54] WhiteStar Magic: LBSA runs MRM ?
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: standing around chactting
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it was using 120% cpu
[10:54] WhiteStar Magic: does this >?
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa does
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: this doesnt
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it runs the Telehub mrm
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats it
[10:55] WhiteStar Magic: I notoiced differences when MRM is on or not on my regions
[10:55] Penny Lane: Vicinity chat in LBSA was dead when we got diverted there on the crash earlier.
[10:55] tx Oh: i haven't played with mrm yet
[10:55] Charles Krinke: Perhaps disable RM for a few days and see if it makes a difference?
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya it does all kinds of wierd things there
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i will charles
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: its about the last thing left to try
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: after that i dunno
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: only thing left is avatar counts
[10:55] Charles Krinke: Ok, what else can we accoplish, today?
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: increasedd traffic
[10:56] Master Dubrovna: Its usually busy expecially with new people
[10:56] Maria Korolov: has anyone else here lost regions due to the hypver VM hack?
[10:56] Master Dubrovna: Yes
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i lost a server but not regions
[10:56] paulie Flomar: thankfully, no
[10:56] Bri Hasp: Yes
[10:57] Charles Krinke: Any estimate of the number of regions lost due to the HyperVN hack?
[10:57] tx Oh: one thing which bugs me is the leaking memory. for users with low mem vps servers it must be a horror
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we had the osgrid elgg dev website hosted on Fsckvps
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we lost it all
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hyper vm hack??
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: but luckily we had it backed up
[10:57] Maria Korolov: charles: simon lost 30, but had offline backups
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin
[10:57] Bri Hasp: when will you re activate purge?
[10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
[10:57] WhiteStar Magic: I think we need to get more in people faces about making regular & timely backupos and not just OAR files
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty terrible series of events occured over the weekend
[10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: what kind of hack?
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: really really bad
[10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: can it cause data loss?
[10:57] Maria Korolov: snoopy: 100% data loss
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: 1000s of servers were destroyed
[10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: wha????
[10:58] Maria Korolov: 100,000 + websites wiped out
[10:58] Charles Krinke: Justin: Google "HyperVM hack"
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: and sadle someone killed themselves over the event possibly
[10:58] Penny Lane: You mean an attack?
[10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Sadly*
[10:58] WhiteStar Magic: fck was wiped out
[10:58] Master Dubrovna:
[10:58] Penny Lane: Oh sh*t
[10:58] Charles Krinke: And the pres of the company tht makes the software committed suicide last night.
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a total cluser f@$# to be frank
[10:58] Maria Korolov: yeayh, the head o hte software company wiht the hack killed himself in india
[10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks Master
[10:58] WhiteStar Magic: The creator of teh software hung himself
[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: master: thanks
[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow, nasty
[10:58] Master Dubrovna: sue
[10:58] Master Dubrovna: sure
[10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
[10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: really?
[10:59] Maria Korolov: i'm trying to get a estimate of the opensim regions lost...
[10:59] Bri Hasp: Purge stays off how long?
[10:59] Master Dubrovna:
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: for now indefinatly
[10:59] Charles Krinke: I would estimate 50-100 on OSGrid
[10:59] Bri Hasp: TY
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i wont be rushing to turn it back on
[10:59] Charles Krinke: lost
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya i estimated that its atleast 100
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: but i have nothing solid
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: other than a good guess at this point
[11:00] Charles Krinke: just guesses, Maria, based onwhat folks ar reporing
[11:00] Master Dubrovna: What servers are back online are operating with limited memory
[11:00] paulie Flomar: Dayum! Dude kille dhimself over the VM hack? :(
[11:00] Penny Lane: Wow,I wish politicians would hang themselves when they screw up too.
[11:00] Charles Krinke: We tend to have man folks operatng low-budget VPS
[11:00] Master Dubrovna: lol
[11:01] paela argus is Offline
[11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: luckily I dont use VPS
[11:01] WhiteStar Magic: again... I am gonna restate... we really need to get people to pay attention to doing Full Backups and Saves
[11:01] Charles Krinke: Well, Paulie, I suspect it ws the ulminaion of a number of things
[11:01] Starky Rubble: wimmen folks too
[11:01] Master Dubrovna: Yes WhiteStar....backups saved me
[11:01] Penny Lane: What's a good VPS, other than VAserv?
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: can you put in the timer script also noprmal linux commands ?
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: so you can wput a file
[11:02] WhiteStar Magic: it seems that it is possible,....
[11:02] tx Oh: yes, and with low-cost vps you have a limitet mem usage. with a leaking mem leaking opensim you really need to restart often
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: thats a pint i still need to make
[11:02] WhiteStar Magic: I don;t have a Linux system runnig at this time to buold linux soluiution like I did for Windows
[11:02] WhiteStar Magic: but it shoudl not be hard to port it over
[11:02] Brent Seidel: just make sure that your backup is physially separated from your host.
[11:03] Charles Krinke: I need to go pretend I am working. Sorry "Office Hour"was a bit traumatic today.
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: but ok, put and mysql backup you can do with cron to
[11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[11:03] Penny Lane: Cyu CK
[11:03] paulie Flomar: bye, ck. Keep em flyin.
[11:03] WhiteStar Magic: sorry about the typing folks... but my hands are really sore today
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: thats my problem for now.
[11:03] Charles Krinke is Offline
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes i move it to other place.working on it
[11:04] WhiteStar Magic: I put the command to backup & restore MySql db in the forums ... works in both Win & Linux
[11:04] Brenda Fall: y iz nobody talkin
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: i have the commands.
[11:04] Maria Korolov whispers: breand: we're so sad...
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: huh, I guess we all lost interest in voice?
[11:04] Brenda Fall: y....
[11:04] Kitto Flora: I'm seeing weird errors again
[11:04] Kitto Flora: Lockup imminent?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: voice needs alot of work
[11:04] tx Oh: voice works :-)
[11:04] Maria Korolov: jcc: i still have interest in voice...
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its sort of impersonal at the moment
[11:04] Penny Lane: Because there's no open source voice, perhaps.
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: to not know who is talking
[11:05] Maria Korolov: jcc: btw, great interovew on Floss!
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I think voice here in this meeting :)
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: maria; thanks :)
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: personally i dont much like voice in its current form
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: being its totally anonymous
[11:05] tx Oh: my freeswitch server runs with no need to restart since ages, in oposit to opensim
[11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: I know ppl that work on speaker indication for voice
[11:05] Starky Rubble: its important to chat meeting matters tho for the log
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Starky
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i could record the meetings
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I agree, knowing who is speaking would be nice
[11:05] tx Oh: i need to restart the mono process nearly every day
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and post mp3
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but still
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: you dont know who is actually speaking
[11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: we should have speaker indication in some weeks
[11:06] Brent Seidel: It's easier to search through text.
[11:06] Starky Rubble: and its a lot harder to speed-read an mp3 lol
[11:06] PocoLoco Darwin: mp3? OGG!!
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: great snoopy, i look forward to testing that
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: snoppy: so who is working on that?
[11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[11:06] tx Oh: ogg ++
[11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is a company I know
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oops, snoopy, sorry :)
[11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: they need it for business meetings in opensim worlds
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: oh, so are they release open source or are they selling it?
[11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes the owner of that company intends to release it as open source
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: nice
[11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: at least he told me that
[11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: he has hired a developer for that work
[11:07] Starky Rubble: cool
[11:07] Brenda Fall: whats the MOVIES?
[11:07] tx Oh: yeah, this prevents from reinvented weels
[11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: he needs it urgently for a project with a big bank
[11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: so there is some pressure to get it working
[11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: and DrScofield said it can be done quite quickly
[11:08] Maria Korolov: snoopy: big bank project in OpenSim?
[11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: (if you know where to do the changes lol)
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: wow
[11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[11:09] tx Oh: i also think it's a fast to solve thing
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, everything (almost) is simple if you know what changes to do
[11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: a bank wants to use it for business meetings
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: early adopters? They're too cheap to pay for Nebraska? :)
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: or not interested in paying to be beta testers
[11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: well that friend is a good sales person and he knows ppl in that bank :)
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, but are interested to be free alpha testsers :)
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, that is always a big influence
[11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: did anybody have a look at the Project Natal video?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: have a link?
[11:11] Fredo Chaplin is Offline
[11:11] paulie Flomar: Snoppy: vapor. :)
[11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
[11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: "available already today" is not really correct ;)
[11:11] Penny Lane: The design concept video was vapourware, but the other one wasn't
[11:12] Maria Korolov: i saw it.. the graphics were really impressive...
[11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[11:12] Starky Rubble: FUD-ware
[11:12] Maria Korolov: don't know how much of the interactivity was faked, htough :-)
[11:12] paulie Flomar: I'll believe it when I can buy it.
[11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: well that's where we all are eading!
[11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: heading*
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, the Microsoft thing
[11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes lol
[11:12] paulie Flomar: Microsoft is known for removing features, after all. I'm just sayin. :)
[11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: but we also need such technology as opens source
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: getting graphics is generally very hard
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and expensive
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its not suprising that most Virtual Worlds look like 1990; VRML
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: for such new features viewer and server development need to be coordinated - in the future
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: bandwidth not othe rprobem ?
[11:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Neb lol
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think one big issue is the necessity to stream down all the ugc
[11:13] paulie Flomar: I liked Sony's motion control demo better. I think it has greater chance of actually shipping.
[11:13] Brent Seidel: Well, I'm not sure that I want my avatar doing *everything* that I'm doing.
[11:14] paela argus is Offline
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: you lose a lot of your ability to do neat optimiaizations on the graphics side, is my understanding, when you don't know what you'll actually need to display
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: literally a company Like EA and big ships
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: sorriy shops
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: spend millions on graphics engines
[11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: Brent there should be a feature called "behave better than me in rl" ;)
[11:14] paulie Flomar:
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and years of development
[11:14] Brent Seidel: lok
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, graphics is hard :)
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: even linden labs
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: has spent vast sums of money
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: to get it this far
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't think we always give them enough credit
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a big investment
[11:15] paela argus is Online
[11:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: well shadows will come next year
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya i hope they take as long as it needs to do it right
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: current shadow testing for me i have mixed feelings
[11:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: the computers used by the customers are a big limitation
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the quality is pretty low right now
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you trade a lot of FPS for low quality shadows
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem worth it to me
[11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: well on my computer these testing viewers crash horrible lol
[11:16] paulie Flomar: Interestingly, Linden Lab's implermentation of SSAO (screen space ambient occlusion) seems to have been done by th eopen source comunity. :)
[11:16] paulie Flomar: for free
[11:16] Bri Hasp: would be sweet if we used CUDA
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: i run still on high. ultra takes to muhc. especially if you run 2 viewers. i want enough frames with good quality
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya cuda is too isolating i think
[11:16] WhiteStar Magic: That reminded me of something.... Was there ever any resoltuion in regards to teh "Viewer Based" trees causing lag and issues ?
[11:17] Penny Lane: The MS E3 video that is (allegedly) real is this one - but it's boring as hell until 2:14 mins in.
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and i dont think cuda will last real long
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there will be new generation models
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: needs to be something open
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: cuda is freakin expensive
[11:17] Bri Hasp: but is a fast engine
[11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: it would be cool to have a viewer that supports stereo googles
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hmm google on googles.
[11:17] Brenda Fall: im jus walkin around
[11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: Nvidia has the hardware that allows that
[11:17] tx Oh: there is a patch for stereo
[11:17] paulie Flomar: dig it:
[11:18] Bri Hasp: thats my dream Snoopy
[11:18] Bri Hasp: have it for games
[11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Bri :)
[11:18] Penny Lane: CUDA is proprietary to nVidia, but OpenCL is coming soon, and is "open" in the sense of OpenGL.
[11:18] Bri Hasp: is so MS tho
[11:18] Bri Hasp: Direct X etc
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: OpenCL sounds nice
[11:19] Brenda Fall: nope
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i just hope that other makers hardware can be made to work
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i dont like thinking any one company has an advantage
[11:19] Muck Woodget: Wb Isa
[11:19] Isabele Auer: thx
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: especially after all the nonsense ATI and Nvidia have done i the past
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: to fix prices
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and over inflate the market
[11:20] Maria Korolov: meanwhile --- in anyone interesed in aking over th hostig for e Busness Center? We'regoing o haveto rebuild evrything from cratch.. :-
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: maria: you got hit by the hyper vm hack?
[11:20] paulie Flomar: Mario: u lost it all?
[11:21] Kitto Flora: invalid packets from server
[11:21] Starky Rubble: Is the upcoming inventory engine change going to be as impactful as the asset server change was?
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure Starky
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I have to discuss it with Diva Melanie and Adam
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and formulate a plan
[11:22] Maria Korolov: jcc: yup. lot hte business cente AND trombly ltd. no offline backup
[11:22] Brent Seidel: that's a bummer.
[11:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to go
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: omg :(
[11:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: see you all later :)
[11:23] Master Dubrovna: Why the change for inventory?
[11:23] paulie Flomar: dayum
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: bye snoopy
[11:23] Bri Hasp: MariaI can help you if youget orphaned
[11:23] Brent Seidel: bye snoopy
[11:23] Starky Rubble: me too
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad maria
[11:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye all
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: everything is being refactorod Master Dubrovna
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: maria: bad luck, my condolences :(
[11:23] paulie Flomar: cya snoops
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its been in the cards for some time
[11:23] Master Dubrovna: OK
[11:23] Isabele Auer: snoopy bye bye
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully we will get through the changes seamlessly
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but even if we have troubles we'll make it through
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we always do
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: until we don't :)
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: giberish
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: dont understand that word
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, you optimist :D
[11:25] Brent Seidel: just revert to a previous version and try again
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: still put a box with hardhads near the entrance nebadon
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya, i think if we all can help each other get down some really good practices
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: nothing can stop us
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: good backup routines
[11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev) .9815 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: vigilant server management
[11:25] Bri Hasp: applehood and mother pie?
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:26] paulie Flomar: lol@bri
[11:26] WhiteStar Magic: neb... did you ever discover if teh viewer trees were indeed a culprit for teh lag generation that was here ?
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i think yes
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its partial cause for lag
[11:27] Penny Lane: Seeing as we're talking about individuals rather than well funded orgs, maybe some more automation is needed, to make up for lack of good practices and vigilant server management ;-)
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: on certain hardware
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone though
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the trees that shake a lot and loose focus often
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: dont like them anyway
[11:27] paulie Flomar: I seem to see the trees issue in Cameo beach, lookin toward Wright.
[11:27] Server: Your 2 objects were returned from <98.87764, 143.4182, 21.33336> in region Sandbox Plaza due to parcel auto return
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: seem to cause lag on certain levels of hardware
[11:27] WhiteStar Magic: would this be related to teh Phantom/ flexi issues ?
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: flexis are harsh too
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it really depends on what hardware you are using to render
[11:28] Brenda Fall: oh
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: drivers can also be an issue
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: even on similar hardware
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: if your drivers are not in line
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you could see major variations in performance
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: even on identical boxes
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so many ways you can loose performance
[11:30] WhiteStar Magic: I wonder if M1sha has been advised of this... could post something with the trees module to advise potential users of that sub-system
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: well i think its all part of a bigger issue
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and that is using good texture managemnet
[11:30] Brent Seidel: I did post something on the wiki about my experience with the trees module.
[11:30] Maria Korolov is Online
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: using crazy prim cuts and flexis can cause issues for people
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with older hardware
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it relaly depends on what kind of crowd your going after
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there are methods of building you can use to increase performance
[11:31] WhiteStar Magic: and it appears there are now new issues with SecondInventory imports getting weird cuts and shapes
[11:31] WhiteStar Magic: I've advised them to have a look see at that
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think at some point
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: we need a tool
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that can evaluate a region
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and say this many mb are being used in textures
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: this many vertices are being use in prims
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: right now its very difficult to know
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if you have crossed lines
[11:32] WhiteStar Magic: agreed... maybe a good time to assemble a "Good Building Practices" guide for peopel in OpenSim
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: also isolate gigantor textures
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and nasty prims
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: by UUID and coordinates
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: some nice reporting
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that can help us all make better regions
[11:33] Penny Lane: Just noticed there's no Avatar Rendering Cost showing here.
[11:34] paulie Flomar: oh man. ARC. I never trusted that metric.
[11:34] paulie Flomar: It can be games to give false readings by using Mega prims and prtobably by other methods, too.
[11:34] paulie Flomar: *gamed
[11:34] Bri Hasp: lunch calling my name,,, ciao
[11:34] Penny Lane: Oh wait, there *is* ARC showing, but it's located in wierd places in the room, not above the avs!
[11:34] WhiteStar Magic: bye Bri
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Bri
[11:34] Penny Lane: How odd
[11:34] Bri Hasp is Offline
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: bye
[11:35] Penny Lane: Cyu Bri
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: right, I'm off too, nice talking and listening to you folks
[11:35] Isabele Auer: Bye justin
[11:35] Brent Seidel: bye jcc
[11:35] WhiteStar Magic: see ya jcc
[11:35] Andronicus Dragon: I feel Cheezits coming on
[11:35] paulie Flomar: Imo, ARC was created by teh Lidnens to take the focus off their weak rendering platform and make users blame each other for the platform's weakness. Thats just an opinion, btw.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy the sim held up way better for round 2
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: wierd it freaked out originally
[11:35] WhiteStar Magic: fresh restart
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps just too many people logging in
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i restarted it 10 minutes before the meeting started
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was also fresh
[11:36] WhiteStar Magic: very odd indeed
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure what happened
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[11:36] Penny Lane: paulie: it's just a rule of thumb. But what interests me more is that something in Wright geometry is causing the ARC to render all over the area, not above av's head.
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but it was a great meeting
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: glad so many people attended
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was a nice test
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: say list
Visitor List:
Derika Juran
Charles Krinke
Penny Lane
Richardus Raymaker
Kitto Flora
paulie Flomar
Orion Hax
Justin Clark-Casey
Bri Hasp
Brent Seidel
WhiteStar Magic
Static Sprocket
Mic Bowman
Starky Rubble
Muck Woodget
Isabele Auer
Snoopy Pfeffer
Master Dubrovna
Fredo Chaplin
Andronicus Dragon
tx Oh
PocoLoco Darwin
Vette Chrome
Brenda Fall
Maria Korolov
Total = 25
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: 25 visitors today
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:37] Kitto Flora gots lunch
[11:37] Kitto Flora: Byebye
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: see ya
[11:37] WhiteStar Magic: bye Kitto
[11:37] Maria Korolov: bye kitto
[11:37] tx Oh: well yes..
[11:37] tx Oh: hi

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