Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-12

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Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid

Visitor List:
Nebadon Izumi
Starky Rubble
Jorge Zulaman
Master Dubrovna
Orion Hax
Ideia Boa
Patch Ferber
Kaytie Kohime
Woutch Verstraeten
Charles Krinke
Brent Seidel
Snoopy Pfeffer
Justin Clark-Casey
Richardus Raymaker
Teravus Ousley
M1sha Dallin
Kitto Flora
Maria Korolov
Aramis Soren
Kanel Aloha
tx Oh
Jeff 1564
BlueWall Slade
Star Design
Total = 24
[10:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
[10:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: with mono 2.5 and the new opensim vesions I have less of such script problems
[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: snoopy. how are your regions running. its seems mine crash/freeze/ dont react good at teleports after 14 hours or so. thats very bad comapred with the 48+ hours with 9395
[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: can someone get me from 0.0.0 ?
[10:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Rich
[10:03] Teravus Ousley is Online
[10:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:03] Connected
[10:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: and hello Charles, Orion and Master
[10:04] Compile successful
[10:04] Orion Hax: hello
[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: relog.
[10:04] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[10:04] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
[10:04] M1sha Dallin: Hi
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: qhq
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: aha
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: its the website
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: the resolves the youtube urls
[10:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Teravus
[10:04] Charles Krinke: Morning, Snoopy, and all. Thanks for coming to our "Office Hour". Hopefully it will not be a furball todqy.
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i changed services
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: now its working
[10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello teravus
[10:05] Ideia Boa: it's your shadows
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: no its website
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think they are having latency issues
[10:05] Richardus Raymaker is Online
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i switch back to tx ohs server
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: now its working
[10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: no what is there? :)
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think the youtubemp4 server is in japan
[10:06] Ideia Boa: soetimes it don't work for me too, it's not the script
[10:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: so its probably latency
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: cause the URLs are not loading in browser either
[10:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: wb Rich
[10:06] Brent Seidel: I hope that's not an example of how these meetings run ;-)
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: ? Brent?
[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. where stuck on 0.0.0
[10:07] Brent Seidel: The guys on the video whaling on each other with swords.
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: oh
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: so we will discuss yesterday's issues only? ;)
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i as just teting the video player
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt working
[10:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:07] Charles Krinke: Lets start with our normal first question. "Can we advance the 'recommended' version for this week?"
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i just grabbed a url from youtube
[10:07] Teravus Ousley: I must relog!
[10:07] Teravus Ousley is Offline
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: well i think the version this simulator is a nice safe place
[10:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: 9489 is good for me
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think 9489 is a good spot for the week
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: ill ask again, are ther emore wher ethe region dont accept teleport after 14+ hours ? mine seems to not respond. not for my teleport. maby someone else need to look later today. before i restart
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: as you all noticed i had to shut off groups
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: we found some nasties
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: and i didnt want anyones regions to be damaged
[10:08] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:08] Connected
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: so i just killed it really quick
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one bug is fixed
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one more to go
[10:08] Teravus Ousley is Online
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: then we might be able to turn it back on
[10:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: is the groups issue only having to do with permissions?
[10:08] paulie Flomar is Online
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt respecting perms
[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i thnk 9498 feels betetr then 9489.
[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: in that case we could say: dont use it for permissions
[10:09] Charles Krinke: any objections to r9489 for the "recommended" version for the next week. Remember, this version is mostly for those who do not wish to be sacrificed upon the bleeding edge.
[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: just for communications
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: right now i have to say dont use scriptgs
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: sorry not scirpts
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: groups
[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:09] M1sha Dallin: Richardus - mine have been up 21 hours with no problems - 9495
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i would turn it of until we say so
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: it could result in damage to your regions
[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: the osgrid one is off for everyone
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: up yes. but can you try to teleport later today to a region i cannot enter.
[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have reported a bug that appears when you reclaim group owned land
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the dont crash.
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: but if your using mcortez server here on osgrid
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest you disable it
[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: you can only fix that in the database
[10:10] M1sha Dallin: I just tp'd from there
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: if your not working directly with mcortez
[10:10] paulie Flomar is Offline
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy its worse than thaqt
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: someone could erase your prims
[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: really?
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: thats why its off
[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: just group owned prims?
[10:10] Maria Korolov: hi guys
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: no
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: all your prims
[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh :(
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe yes
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: why i ripped the cord out of the wall on groups
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is nasty
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: were working on it
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: i might even have something later today
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: no promises though
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: I also read what Melanie said on IRC
[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: it looks like some fundamental redesign might be good
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the deleting all your prims is fixed
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: if your on head
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: no more worries about that issue
[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: splitting group permissions and group communications in the source code
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the only issue left now
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: is anyone can hijack a group
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: become owner
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: kick everyone out
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: and make it their own
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: thats the next bug to be squashed
[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hijacking a group is less of a problem I thing, if noone uses it for permissions
[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: think*
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: till it is fixed in the code
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: but i would rather it be fixed
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: before we resume testing
[10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:13] Teravus Ousley: who's taking point on that?
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: mcortez and melanie
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: have been laying in perms fixes
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: the bad bug is fixed by mealnie
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: melanie
[10:14] paela argus is Online
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: the one were you could erase a sim
[10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb did you test it already?
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be working with mcortez later
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: to get past other issues in a timely fashion
[10:14] Charles Krinke: More on groups? Can we move on? We can come back and talk about groups more after we get all the items on the table, and I think there are a few more.
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: sure
[10:14] paulie Flomar is Online
[10:15] Charles Krinke: I think one of the next issues is vendors selling at zero $ or 1$ things like the "beta boat" and "parcels on regions"
[10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: in general I see that residents like groups, so it would be cool to be able to enable it soon again
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya one thing brought to my attention
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: that could be semi problematic of removing the currency module
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: its minor
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can not set a parcel of land for sale for 0L
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: unless you specify the avatars name
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: not a huge deal
[10:16] paulie Flomar is Offline
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but it pretty much kills land selling unless you know whos buying it
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats really the only thing that is a problem that i know of at the moment
[10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is not nice, but acceptable for now
[10:16] Charles Krinke: Even if the money is transferred outside the scope of the grid, we cannot have automatic transfers?
[10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi tx
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: we can
[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: thats always so, i think its in sl the same way that you cannot sell land to everybody for 0L$
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: if you drop the money module in
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: it works
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: its only if you dont add the currency module
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: that land sales to anyone is impossible
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you have to know their name
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: and set the land for sale to only them
[10:17] Charles Krinke: Perhaps that is the next issue, and that is "Should we define some currency module testing on OSGrid to help keep the software going in the right direction?"
[10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: what about objects sales for L$0?
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: then you can set it for 0L
[10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: does that work?
[10:17] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:17] Connected
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can set objects for sale now
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you must change your OpenSim.ini
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: and
[10:18] tx Oh: i'm happy with no money
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: you can only set it for 0L
[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: I need that at my shops
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: setting it for 1L
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: will give you a pop up
[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: saying this region is not currency enabled
[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: perfect
[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: )
[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya diff the opensim.ini.example
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the currency section
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: set it to true
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the new option
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: then set for sale for 0L will work
[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb, the ini on
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: no
[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: ini example?
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: our release does not support it
[10:19] Starky Rubble: Docs would help especially since many have trouble with the forge/compiling process which is their only option
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: 9495 is required
[10:19] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:19] Connected
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so the svn example for 9495+
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: will conatin what you need
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: once i make a new release our ini will have it
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: and i'll make sure its on by default
[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Starky I have written something for Linux on my blog
[10:19] Starky Rubble: cool
[10:19] Michelle Argus is Offline
[10:20] Charles Krinke: Haaaalllllppp. Volunteers helping write more "wiki-docs" needed desperately. We are being overwhelmed by the documentation monster.
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: hehehe
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys do test this
[10:20] Brent Seidel: I can write documentation.
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: and have an extra 2 minutes
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: plase do a quick write up
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i wish i had the time
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i have not tested any of the currency stuff
[10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add some links in the wiki but it did not work
[10:21] Charles Krinke: Start with a "FAQ" entry if you wish. Nothing verbose if you dont have the time. At the least, give a clue for the next guy/gal along the path.
[10:21] Michelle Argus is Online
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: we will be relying on all of you
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: to test / report / document it
[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: you can't hear me?
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: doh
[10:21] Teravus Ousley: newp
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: my voice volume was at 0
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i hear you
[10:21] Charles Krinke: We have no "documentation department". In fact we have no "departments" at all. So, all of this develoment, testing and documentation is at the discretion of volunteers.
[10:22] Kitto Flora: 5 bars
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone here is looking for a job
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt have programming skills
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: DOCUMENT!!!
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: and gooo!
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:22] Charles Krinke: bad hours, no pay, lots of criticism and all the plywood boxen you can carry
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: if you need help getting started with wiki editing
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just let me know
[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i can help you get started
[10:23] Charles Krinke: I think the punchline here is we need more community help to document OpenSim as the monster gets more complicated each week.
[10:23] Orion Hax: imagine never seeing anyone again over the moutian of paperwork
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: anything else you wanted to discuss today Charles?
[10:24] Charles Krinke: Well, our success will eventually be determined by our ability to communicate all this techno-babble to each other and to new adopters.
[10:24] Charles Krinke: I heard last night that HyperGrid gates were not working from Bri. Are others having problems with HyperGrid gates with recent revisions?
[10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: waiting for new gate.
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: say list
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jorge Zulaman
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Master Dubrovna
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Orion Hax
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Ideia Boa
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Patch Ferber
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kaytie Kohime
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Woutch Verstraeten
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinke
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Brent Seidel
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Snoopy Pfeffer
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kitto Flora
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Maria Korolov
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Aramis Soren
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kanel Aloha
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jeff 1564
[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 21
[10:25] Maria Korolov: some of my gates work
[10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: what is the redesign about Diva starts?
[10:26] Starky Rubble: I was expeimenting with them last night - they were fine
[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: will that cause major protocol changes
[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ?
[10:26] Charles Krinke: Diva is working on improving security related notions concerning HyperGrid
[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok :)
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: let me send you some shirts
[10:26] Charles Krinke: That will most likel causesome bmps in the road.
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: you get some bailout money with that shirt Justin?
[10:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think in general we would need a security audit before version 1.0
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: i freeze again again after teleport
[10:27] Teravus Ousley: :)
[10:27] Charles Krinke: remember, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Sometimes 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats a folder of shirts justin
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Teravus Ousley: Some times it's 3 steps forward and everyone around says, ooh.. we've never seen that before.
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i did promise you at some point i would give you stuff
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Charles Krinke: Teravus, Justin, Anything you wish to add to the smorgasboard on our overflowing table today?
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: there you go
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: so here ya go :)
[10:28] Ideia Boa: free shirts, uau
[10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool vid :)
[10:28] Teravus Ousley: Atomic Electron cloud ftw!
[10:28] Starky Rubble: How about an overview of the refactoring project?
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: I don't think I need to add to the oveflow further
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure anyone here is really qualified to talk about the refactor
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: overflow
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: please do speak up
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: mostly its security
[10:29] Starky Rubble: heh
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: that i do know
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: but the explicit details
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i really am unsure
[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: is there some document discussing the planned final architecture?
[10:29] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:29] Connected
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: the source code :P
[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: heeh
[10:29] Starky Rubble: executive summary...
[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: like usual :)
[10:29] Charles Krinke: Ok, how do we divide and conquer the issues brought up today?
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not yet no
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: so much will change
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: that by the time we finish documenting it
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be valid
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: there is no planned final architecture
[10:30] Charles Krinke: Shoot, Snoopy. We are making it up as we go along.
[10:30] Starky Rubble: the pace is daunting
[10:30] Starky Rubble: in a good way lol
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to keep up
[10:31] Charles Krinke: Like all of you, when something I like or depend upon stops working, I am frustrated. But yet, this project seems to keep on growing momentum.
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ok. it seems teleport freeze is something at my side
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: especially when a bug gums up the gears
[10:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:31] Connected
[10:31] Maria Korolov: bring n a bunch of enemployabe collge stuents as interns to go around and write everything up
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya might not be a bad idea
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: problem is documenting is time consuming
[10:31] paela argus is Online
[10:31] Maria Korolov: you guys are a non-profit no: advertise this. they'll be helping history be made.
[10:31] Charles Krinke: I do want to re-iterate the goals of OSGrid a a moment as I heard some blogging that was mis-informed over the weekend.
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and generally changes by the time you get it done
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: but we do need to try
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its not a good excuse to not try
[10:32] Brent Seidel: unemployeed aerospace engineers - they live on documentation.
[10:32] Brent Seidel: I know, I'm one.
[10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am busy convincing a well know documentary filmer to add an outlook section to his sl documentary about the future of virtual worlds, including opensim
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:32] Charles Krinke: There are two goals to OSGrid. 1) Test, deploy, mantis, patch and improve OpenSim. 2) Develop a vibrant, long-term community.
[10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: and he is interested
[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: if you can convince people to document that would be very nice. But generally. no-one does
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: most people are exicted about documenting
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: until 15 minutes in
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: then we never see them ever again
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: It really has to be the people developing, reverse engineering to document takes extraordinary amounts of time
[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :)
[10:33] Charles Krinke: I would say that to the extent us testers can help the developers by documenting, we help the pace of development. After all,, most developers are allergic to documentation anyway.
[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: only the bad ones :)
[10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is the topic: most of us are developers lol
[10:34] Teravus Ousley: midlife crisis
[10:34] Teravus Ousley: always the high heels..
[10:34] Aramis Soren: what's the plan for r10000? anything special?
[10:34] Teravus Ousley: why.. the high heels.
[10:34] Starky Rubble: hehe
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, don't think neb gave me any high heels, surprisingly
[10:34] paela argus is Offline
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: not sure about r10k plans
[10:34] Charles Krinke: yes. Declare as 1.0, finish the project, go into Beta <Hah>
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: planning for r10k plans is hard
[10:35] Orion Hax: be like M$ and go straight to RC
[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: speaking of which , any plans to release 0.6.5?
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: considering 10k might be the worst bug we ever experience
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt be fun to celebrate that
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya never do know
[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am sure there are more security issues that need to be checked before 1.0
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but i think if we make it past 10k
[10:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:35] Connected
[10:35] Aramis Soren: no but something to pat the devs on the back would be nice
[10:35] Charles Krinke: Good point. "How do we get to a 0.6.5 with comfort from a majority of folks here?"
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it worthy of celebrating
[10:36] paela argus is Online
[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: any idea how to get some independent security guys to have a look?
[10:36] Aramis Soren: a day off? a day to actually Play with os?
[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: you're breaking up Mr T!
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not planning a relase today
[10:36] paela argus is Offline
[10:36] Brent Seidel: You might want to talk to the OpenBSD guys about security audits.
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix groups
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: then i will do a relase
[10:36] Starky Rubble: yes
[10:36] Brent Seidel: They might be able to provide some pointers.
[10:36] Teravus Ousley: grodowns
[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes groups should have priority before releasing anything
[10:37] Charles Krinke: My opinion is that by using OpenSim in a live grid such as OSgrid, we expose many more security issues (and fix them) then any "pontificating consultants" are worth.
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have time to help with groups
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: cool snoopy i think mcortez needs volunteers
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: #osgroups
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: for those interested in working with mcortez
[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest if your not working with him
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: shut off groups
[10:38] Teravus Ousley: unless of course.. if all your content is freely available and you have a really recent backup of your region :)
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: and when im comfortable i'll anounce when its safe again
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: relatively safe anyway
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:38] Charles Krinke: Ok, to balance this whole meeting out: "Is there any good news today?"
[10:38] Starky Rubble: hehe
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: this region hasnt crashd yet?
[10:39] paela argus is Online
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: hows that for good news
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:39] Charles Krinke: I would like to hear from anyone that has not been able to get a word in edgewise.
[10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: my regions run very stable :)
[10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: yes. I came here from a 9395 region. so my TP wrks!
[10:39] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[10:39] Charles Krinke: coolness, Maria
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: maria yes
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you can get back though
[10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: and it's been up for a week, zero downtime.
[10:40] Aramis Soren: how's the new asset server looking, big difference?
[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[10:40] Maria Korolov: well, i can't have verything :-)
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: new asset services are holding up awesome
[10:40] paela argus is Offline
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: there is a stats board behind everyone
[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen that some still use /open port 8895. sofar i know its not in use anymore. so thats a bad point on wiki
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: showing the stats of the asset services
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ah yes Richardus
[10:40] Maria Korolov: yes -- that's th other good news. OSGrib Business Center is up on 89, and it just FLIES.
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: the wiki needs a fixing for that im sure
[10:40] paela argus is Online
[10:40] Charles Krinke: I would like to urge all to look at the graphs of Wright Plaza and performance on the wall behind us, thanks to some "Nebadonic" efforts. They provide a very useful perspective.
[10:41] Charles Krinke: Maria might like to do something similar on "OSgrid Business Center"
[10:41] Maria Korolov: OSG BWC has been up for two days straight withno downtime. :-)9489...
[10:41] Charles Krinke: Along with "graffiti board" and "html-on-a-prim" demoes for business-types.
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of visitor counts are you seeing maria?
[10:42] Maria Korolov: chares: yes. we are looking for business tools.. we have a business supppy center we can put them in
[10:42] Maria Korolov: neb: we've had 2-4 visitors every morning during business hours, plus more later on htroughout the day
[10:42] BlueWall Slade is Online
[10:42] Charles Krinke: "graffiti board" is in the library, written by Justin. "html-on-a-prim" is available on the forums.
[10:42] Maria Korolov: chalres: we aso put up a vendor expo area, but vendors to put booths with graphics and hand-outs
[10:42] Starky Rubble: I I tp'ed and HG'ed there yesterday several times from various places including to and fro from my 9500 region a few times
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: cool im glad its running well anyway
[10:43] Ideia Boa: crash
[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: need to look after this on welcome area
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i need to script this couch so when i run past
[10:43] Maria Korolov: i havent donea big marketing campaign yet though because of stability issues
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i can trigger a crowd wave
[10:43] Maria Korolov: maybe next week
[10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: Samsara gets about 100 uniq visitors during 2 days. during busy times it restarts about every 4 hours, otherwise it runs without restarts
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: cool
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i reset the visitor list here before meeting
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: it was showing 89 people i think
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: for last 3-4 days
[10:44] paela argus is Offline
[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool
[10:44] Starky Rubble: Snoopy: Samsara- Mono?
[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: looks like my shop is a busy spot in osgrid :=
[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh i tell everyone to go to samsara
[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: mono 2.5
[10:45] Starky Rubble: ok
[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: still on mono 2.4
[10:45] Charles Krinke: The network throughput graph in the bottom left corner shows the throughput for our meeting and is worth a look by anyone interested in network throughput.
[10:45] Maria Korolov: snoopy; i'm going t put u a boad at the business center. i'll include a link to your shop.
[10:45] Aramis Soren: whats the stats url, still hasn't shown for me here
[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: we have much more land here compared to sl :)
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi:
[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool thanks Maria
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the webserver / UGIM stats
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi:
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the asset server stats
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi:
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for this simulator
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: did you check my blog ?
[10:47] Michelle Argus is Online
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: it helps with Linux nstalltions
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: and also covers using Monit for service monitoring
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin
[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: your like 7 foot tall
[10:48] Charles Krinke: Anything to bring up from anyone that we did not cover yet?
[10:48] Richardus Raymaker: there's one problem. all the websites are so around everywhere that you not find them back :O
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya anyone has anything they want to talk about
[10:48] Maria Korolov: :-)
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: now would be the time :)
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think we really have a problem with documentation
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: many pages are not referenced from the top
[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: like the new extensions
[10:49] Ideia Boa: i can help, translation to portuguese
[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: ppl cannot find it
[10:49] Brent Seidel: I'll see if I can type a few words before I drift away ;-)
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy feel free to add to the wiki
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can change it
[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I will try again :)
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: if your planning something drastic
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: please just let us know
[10:49] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:49] Connected
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: we can discuss it so your not wasting your time
[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add something on the News page
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: having it all undone by a admin
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but it did not accept my changes
[10:50] Brent Seidel: I would like to add release notes based on the SVN history. Would the copyrights (if any) permit that?
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: did you register?
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: and I was logged in
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: well try again
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: if its a problem i'll check into it
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: I saw my changes
[10:50] Charles Krinke: I see no issue, Brent
[10:50] Teravus Ousley: was it the grid page?
[10:50] Michelle Argus is Online
[10:50] Brent Seidel: OK. Thanks,
[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but afterwards they were gone when I came back
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: its possible some pages are moderated
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: check the history
[10:50] Teravus Ousley: there are.. or were.. a few pages that are locked
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: it will tell you what happened
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes probably that is moderated
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably this one
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[10:51] Charles Krinke: Complaints? Recall petitions? Fire all and get new personalities?
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: if you need moderated pages changed
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest talking with Sdague or Adam
[10:51] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:51] Connected
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: or me
[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw I tried to contact Adam the last 2 days
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i can not change it
[10:51] Aramis Soren: did i miss the "recommended version" for the week at start of meeting? still 9395 here seems ok
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but im good at getting attention
[10:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is so difficult to find time with him
[10:52] Charles Krinke: 9489, I think. is that right, Nebadon?
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya if you strike out on them
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: come see me
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im happy with 9489
[10:52] Richardus Raymaker: hope 94xx gets just as stable as the old 9395 version with uptime. i need to reboot 94xx more.
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats this weeks happy #
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: ++
[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: im a bit more happy with 9498
[10:53] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:53] Connected
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i will be updating by the weekend i suspect
[10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: or "lucky number"? ;)
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: just hang in there
[10:53] Maria Korolov: except for Tor theTP robelms -- ou can' TP from 9489 to earlier regions
[10:53] Aramis Soren plays 9489 on the lottery
[10:53] Charles Krinke: The 'recommended' is merely to advise those who do not wish to be on the "bleeding edge" and can change each week. It will always be a moving target.
[10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hehe it's a bit like lottery Aramis
[10:54] Maria Korolov: so if you HAVE o connct tect t older regions, you'll have to wait fo them to upgrde
[10:54] Aramis Soren: right but it there is a tp cutoff, i should update later then
[10:54] Michelle Argus is Online
[10:54] Maria Korolov: aramis: that's y thining with my region
[10:54] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:54] Connected
[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: do older versions break new versions ?
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: shooudlnt
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Teravus
[10:55] BlueWall Slade: se ya Teravus
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: for a short bit it did
[10:55] Charles Krinke: There will come a time when the pace of updates may slow down for some regions on OSgrid. It appears we have lots of changes recently, but when the checkins slow down in a few months, we make wish to 'update' more slowly.
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: but we have gotten past that
[10:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Teravus
[10:55] Teravus Ousley: see ya!
[10:55] Charles Krinke: bye, Teravus
[10:55] Teravus Ousley is Offline
[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: how are the svn stats looking now nebadon ?
[10:56] Ideia Boa: good work Teravus
[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: you hav esome list.. ?
[10:56] Charles Krinke: Anything you guys/gals can do to help BlueWall and Nebadon not be deluged by support on the #osgrid channel would help also. We need more support help for new users on both #opensim and #osgrid.
[10:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:56] Connected
[10:56] Michelle Argus is Online
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of stats do you mean?
[10:57] Aramis Soren: ok can join #osgrid also i guess
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: you monitor how many servers are runninbg bwich version
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh thats borked at the moment
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have good stats
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i have to fix the website
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: havent had a chance yet
[10:57] M1sha Dallin: Help there when I can Charles
[10:58] Richardus Raymaker: ok
[10:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:58] Connected
[10:59] Charles Krinke: This has been a good meeting. It 'feels' like we are communicating, and thats good.
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: Thanks, everybody, for helping us pull through this past weekend.
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: i think everybody do. only killerfor me with help is the loopback problem
[10:59] Charles Krinke: Maybe we cannot always have ready answers, but as humans, we have to keep communicating to make it through this insanity
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: there's no trick for that can be used for everybody ?
[10:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[10:59] Connected
[10:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles :)
[10:59] M1sha Dallin: yep - my router supports it so I don't know how else it is solved
[10:59] Aramis Soren: no really depends on router
[11:00] Aramis Soren: some are using home routers ,some are linux box routers etc
[11:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: but we really can reduce the need for support if we all put more effort in documenting
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: it seems there enough routers that dont support it
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: are we talking about loopback?
[11:00] Aramis Soren: yes
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i know alot of Netgear routers
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: dont support it
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: netgear is bad in that regard
[11:00] Charles Krinke: Ok, I need to go pretend I am working. My heart is with OpenSim, but gotta pay them dumb bills.
[11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: I know that other open source projects even have sub projects for documentation
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye charles. I'm going to go too
[11:01] Charles Krinke is Offline
[11:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks
[11:01] Connected
[11:01] Aramis Soren: std linksys 4-port notwireless is fine here luckily
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye charles
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Linksys and D-Link are good
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i use D-Link
[11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Justin
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Netgear is just bad
[11:01] Aramis Soren: yeah we had a dlink up for 2 years on game server, pushed alot of packets thru that one
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: their non commercial routers are bad
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to go
[11:02] Aramis Soren: this was 704 i think, old style with metal case not cheap plastic one
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: some renters call lol
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok Snoopy
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: see you
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: see ya Charles
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have joined the groups irc channel
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool :)
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: see ya Snoopy
[11:02] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: lets discuss how to proceed with groups there
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[11:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:02] Connected
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok sounds good
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok see you all :)
[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye
[11:03] Aramis Soren: cool no crashes today here woohoo!
[11:03] Michelle Argus is Online
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: ssst
[11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
[11:03] Aramis Soren: later all
[11:04] Ideia Boa: only my Hippo crash 3 times
[11:04] M1sha Dallin: Time for me to plant some trees :-)
[11:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:04] Connected
[11:04] M1sha Dallin: bye all
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: bye M1sha

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