Chat log from the meeting on 2023-09-26

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[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: welcome :)
[11:17 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Poof
[11:17 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Have a look at this change Ubit
[11:17 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger not guilty!
[11:17 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird
[11:17 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We had a commit, fix up some constraints in light projectors, that was about it really.
[11:17 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird They have hardcoded 4 UUIDs that are now settings in the viewer
[11:17 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird StartUpChannelUUID
[11:18 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird is this something we need the viewer to be able to set in opensim?
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is for vivox interface?
[11:18 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird or can we use heir hardcoded UUIDs
[11:18 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it is used int ehcahnnalemanager code
[11:18 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hello *smiles*
[11:18 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi lyr
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but voice?
[11:18 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu hihi lyr
[11:19 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird possibly
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: never seen those ids i think
[11:19 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird llviewermessage
[11:19 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird LLNotificationsUI::LLChannelManager::getInstance()->killToastsFromChannel(LLUUID(
            gSavedSettings.getString("NotificationChannelUUID")), OfferMatcher(blocked_id));
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm notifications..
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I frankly had not seen them before either and I could not find any reference to them in opensim server side
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird so
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I suppose we probalby don't care
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: or they made some changes we never did notice
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird :-))
[11:21 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird which is absolutely a possibility given the mess that repository is by now
[11:22 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I do recall that there are pseudo uuids for the various channels, including the one that sends group notices, but I think we use the same uuids, if they are used at all. Might just be something that isn't actually needed
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well guess we need to see what breaks :)
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if viewers have hardcoded things, we need to have same, ofc
[11:23 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi jamie
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we have those "magic things" in a lot of things
[11:23 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird there is a load of hardcoded crap in there, and user settings that are not needed
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird such as anything marketplace
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird or pathfinding
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeha can be that also
[11:24 AM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi all sorry i'm late
[11:24 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester send alert should use notification channel I think, similar thing for script writing to owner, but there are no uuids in any of that so might just be unused stuff
[11:25 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Some of that might even sit on libomv
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it is used in the viewer code, but they seem to be of the opinion the UUIDs can be hardcoded
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird which is a good assumption for the one instance of SecondLife
[11:26 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I suppose if we actually need them in the future that code can easily be reverted
[11:26 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well they keep changing soem hardcoded uuids like for default skies etc
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think i had to change one recently ??
[11:27 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird yeou did
[11:27 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird settings such as AudioLevelWind I suppose is useful to not hardcode
[11:28 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Should be easy test if they are really concerning the notifications, cause you use send alert on region to see if that gets through, although I only see that sending bytes, no fixed uuid or even a field for one anywhere
[11:28 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester clientview just has send bytes to client
[11:29 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Same with ossl errors just refer to channel by int not uuid
[11:30 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Meanwhile I have some good news to report
[11:30 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger listens
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester After fiddling around trying to make prebuild happy I just copied over the csproj from a working xunit test project and voila visual studio decided it wanted to play along
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That means I can now start actually re-writing and writing new tests
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The issue of how to make it play along still remains as prebuild has a fixed way of creating the project files from the xml, meaning two options
[11:32 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Either editing runprebuild scripts to add the csproj file and the reference in the sln for it or edit prebuild itself to write specific test projects
[11:34 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger apologies for my appearance
[11:34 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger not used to hg ing
[11:34 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: you're wearing clothes. that willdo
[11:34 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I understand
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes we are ignoring you clifford.Hanger
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i mean your appearance ;)
[11:35 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger lmao
[11:35 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu ^^
[11:37 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger am I allowed to ask questions?
[11:37 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: ls
[11:37 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I think that was a question, ...
[11:37 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger lol
[11:37 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: yes *grins*
[11:37 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: if it is on topic, everyone will be happy *smiles*
[11:38 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: always feel welcome to ask
[11:38 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger didnt want to interript anyones flow
[11:38 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: We love questions.
[11:38 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Feel welcome to ask
[11:39 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger ok here goes 1) voice
[11:39 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger 2) do we know anyone who can code recode reverse enginner vivox?
[11:39 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger 3) costs involved?
[11:40 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: You really want to know if there is an alternative to Vivox and what it costs, right?
[11:40 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger 3 little ?s
[11:40 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger yes
[11:40 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: In a project I supported long ago, we tested other voice options with mixed and less favorable results
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no point on reverse vivox
[11:40 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham They are sticking it to you also, eh?
[11:40 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger i have read previous minutes
[11:40 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo nods
[11:40 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: There is a guy who reverse engineered slvoice.exe, but he only got it working on Windows.
[11:41 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: I think Mumble was tried at some time in the past.
[11:41 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger yes i read that
[11:41 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Needs help on Linux and Mac
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: issue is about voice servers.. no point on reverse vivox if they don't open a server for you
[11:41 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham That would be a start for linux people - where is his source?
[11:41 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right.
[11:41 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: You can run Vivox on Linux under Wine. It works quite well.
[11:41 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger ok if we knew the rough cost
[11:41 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Isn't the Muble open source ancient by now
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i said IMA ppl was doing Echo, a implementation of mumble
[11:42 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Even with the viewer running native on Linux.
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no idea of current state
[11:42 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: yes
[11:42 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger we would know what the future might hold?
[11:42 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We have a mantis ticket that goes through some of that already and the options that are out there
[11:42 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger yes
[11:42 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger does it give an idea of costs?
[11:43 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's worth looking at voice options again. Vivox is part of Unity and cannot be trusted.
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( think they found a use rights problem with ICE the protocol used to talk with mumble servers.. seems it is not that free.. but i was just told.. on a oscc meeting years ago )
[11:43 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The bigger question would be not what it would cost, but how much the community would be willing to spend on it. How important voice is for them.
[11:43 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Joe, what I read was that they are raising prices drastically, so even Cliff is likely to have to pay real money now
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: vivox can't be trusted also becasue they told me directly they do not what anythign related to opensim
[11:44 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird the problem with both macOS and increasingly Windows is that Apple and Microsoft does not allow such code to run  clinet side without a lot of wrangling
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: see...  they need to make $$$ and opensim model does not fit on that
[11:44 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger exactly
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: unity is not there for opensource projects..
[11:44 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger but are we talking $5000
[11:44 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger or $50000
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Gotta pay the suits
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird plus the code to get voice going on the two systems will have to tap into wildly different system libraries
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well unity costs are around $200000 min.. no idea abotu vivox only
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well about last week code changes
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did accept a little fix on lsl projector focus range
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we had 0,20 and should be -20 20
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there was some confusion abotu that, also on our mail list
[11:46 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal 20 is full focus and smaller numbers are blurry?
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc the code change was offered as a github push request
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that also included almost all changes a opensim fork did :)
[11:47 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, negative focus so you can do fake distant objects?
[11:47 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal oo ok
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no idea joe..
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it is on lsl wiki..
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel on viewers actually
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird oh, that would be useful for making lamps
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if you look to the setting is does -20 20
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on fs at least
[11:48 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: There is a way to abuse projectors to create a portal which appears to have some distant thing behind it.
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh?
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel i did not went look in details
[11:49 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: I've seen a demo, but would have to find it.
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just checked range on viewer
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I'll have to experiment with it for my lamps :-)
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so i did refuse that PR and did apply the range fix by hand
[11:50 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird taken and on grid
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that was it..
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Seen some messy pull requests, but this one takes the cake this year
[11:51 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I like his photo
[11:51 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi cuga
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Contribution policies and processes are on the wiki by the way
[11:51 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal hey Cliff
[11:51 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, does anyone here do anything with
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in fact can't use github PRs.. that is not our main repo ( could but would be confusing)
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not me joe :)
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure abotu Lyr.. that seems afk
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Joe, I don't think that trainwreck concerns us much, different/wrong idea of "metaverse" if they have an idea at all
[11:53 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK. I signed up Animats and now I get invites to forums on avatar interoperatbility and such.
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester lol
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird given teh board members, I'd say no
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird
[11:54 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Oh look paid memberships, it's IMA 2.0 xD
[11:55 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird probably someone hoping to latch on to FB - err Meta, to suck $$$ out if it
[11:55 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Bingo
[11:55 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo chuckles
[11:55 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: caught me working
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird anyways
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I reverted all teh profile code last week
[11:56 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Joe, I'm not in that organization. i was in an IEEE standards group
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird avatar profile that is, so now it is working as before for the opensim version
[11:56 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Nice
[11:56 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: there are several that represent standards. it is not easy to keep track *grins*
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird only need to add back oensim support in the network manager, and we are hopefully good to go
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird opensim even
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I know a few people that will be happy when that goes public
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Myself included
[11:58 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird The version running on test on SL is being constantly downloaded to my surprise; both macOS and Windows versions
[11:58 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger is this :
[11:58 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger
[11:58 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah sl viewer made a mess with profiles
[11:59 AM PT]  Clifford.Hanger the place for the latest dev code?
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we need the older TPVs code.. not the new sl thing
[11:59 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Have to go, next meeting.
[11:59 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal bye Joe
[11:59 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I don't get why they changed it to something that is heavier sending more bytes even
[11:59 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Seems they should do best reducing network overhead
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I have pretty much every old repository up and running on
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well they only had http one
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird both HG and git
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i mean website one
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they decide to put in back on viewer UI
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and did that new mess
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i told abotu some issues here, months ago
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( why i did refuse to follow those changes )
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so we do need old TPVs code.. or new code with fixes for us
[12:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The idea was good, partial update, but execution a total trainwreck as usual
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nahh the old code was better
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: supposely they where coping fs profiles code..  but.. well.. something
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not going to repeat what i told months ago ( well if i did remember ;) )
[12:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Correction, noted that AvaCon is a  Principle Member of the Metaverse Standards Forum and I joined their research team last month *grins*
[12:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: crazy busy tho
[12:05 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm crazy busy also, need to run to RL. Buy all!
[12:05 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Kayaker
[12:05 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger bye Kayaker
[12:05 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Laters, Kay
[12:06 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger thanks all of you for what you do for OS
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: any other issue?
[12:07 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal nothing new here
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Thank you!
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Take care, Clifford
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls.. so see you all next week :)
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Many thanks for your wonderful support. See you next week
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