Chat log from the meeting on 2020-02-11

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[11:00] Kayaker Magic: Hi all!
[11:00] Selby.Evans hi Kayaker, Andrew
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:00] Darri.Cerise Hi Kayaker and Andrew
[11:01] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, George.
[11:04] Darri.Cerise Hi George
[11:04] George Equus: Hi Andrew
[11:04] George Equus: Hello everybody
[11:04] Selby.Evans hi George
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Evening George
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know if Ubit will be joining us today. I seem him online but he hasn't responded to my reminder about todays meeting.
[11:05] Selby.Evans Hi Ubit
[11:05] George Equus: I landed on top of him
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Speak of the Devil!
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, there he is. :)
[11:05] George Equus: Hi Ubit
[11:05] Darri.Cerise Hi Ubit
[11:05] Gavin.Hird Evening Ubit
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit.
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: was trying to chat with Rye from alchemy and lost track of time :)
[11:06] Selby.Evans Kitely expects to update to 9.1 later this week
[11:07] Gavin.Hird trying?
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: well got no contact from them, guess the worked it all out
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: np. It happens. I was documenting the changes to my system that were needed to get MySQL running again.
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Who wants to get us started today?
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ( darri better rebake )
[11:09] George Equus: Noneed Ubit you look just fine today
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: err only today ?
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Darrie needs to rebake. Part of his body is missing.
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: -e
[11:10] Darri.Cerise I just did.
[11:10] George Equus: well.... couple weeks ago not so much of you was visible lol
[11:10] Darri.Cerise better sorry I was afk.
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: well guess a mesh got lost on HD
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: and HG
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. The rest of you may appear later in the meeting.
[11:11] Darri.Cerise Yes, most likely.
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: so andrew what news do you bring
[11:11] George Equus: Darris is a bit hollow in the chest
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ahhh we need the dayturn for mac url
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: George, its a new weight loss regimen. :)
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: andrew only did add the one for windows on our site
[11:11] Darri.Cerise *grins at George*
[11:11] George Equus: Ahh! OK  :)
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: gavin?
[11:12] George Equus threw away 6 pairs of trousers, had somehow shrunk dramatically...
[11:13] Gavin.Hird what?
[11:13] Gavin.Hird sorry I wass diffing two commits
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have any news other than the general item. Ubit has made a number of changes to the OS code again this week. Several are related to handling of notecards.
[11:14] Gavin.Hird wassup?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: ( tell the dayturn for mac download url )
[11:14] Gavin.Hird
[11:15] Gavin.Hird same as for every download
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I have a question that may be a viewer question for Gavin: Is there a way that the server can ping the viewer? I'd like to measure throughput, latency and lost packets.
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah items embedded on notecards where not good
[11:15] Gavin.Hird latest version at the top of the page
[11:15] Gavin.Hird they ping each other constantly
[11:16] Gavin.Hird shift+ctrl +1
[11:16] Gavin.Hird in the viewer should give you some idea
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ok did update
[11:17] Selby.Evans Hi Drake
[11:17] Gavin.Hird Hi Drake
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Drake.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: hi Drake
[11:17] George Equus: Hi Drake
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: take a sit :)
[11:17] Darri.Cerise Hi Drake
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: ok sit on floor does work
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: There are still several chairs available. Drake doesn't have to sit on the floor.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: as tag tells Drake is Alchemy dev :)
[11:18] Gavin.Hird that would be a bit ackward
[11:19] Drake Arconis: But I like the floor
[11:19] Drake Arconis: and the world is currently broken.
[11:19] Drake Arconis: lol
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: you are luck, this region is on ubode.. that sit works :)
[11:19] Darri.Cerise *smiles*
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: well on the notecards changes i also changed a bit UUID gathering code for HG and oars
[11:21] Gavin.Hird did it break anyting? ;-)
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks grins
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: you tell me :p
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Royale.
[11:22] Darri.Cerise Hi Royale
[11:22] Royale.Mobian Hi
[11:22] Gavin.Hird Hi Royale
[11:22] Gavin.Hird I have not tested it yet
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: i did replaced the scripts scan by lower level byte compares
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: not getting silly utf8 c# string
[11:22] George Equus: Hello Royal
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: note cards scan is also byte level hmm if i remember
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: i hate c# strings :p
[11:23] Gavin.Hird did you use byte compare elsewhere lately?
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well guess tons of byte compares
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: what are u thinking?
[11:24] Gavin.Hird the one that low level crash mono in the PI
[11:25] Gavin.Hird but we shall see :-)
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: im still wanting for u to tell me what crashes pi
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: i don't have one :p
[11:26] Gavin.Hird you got the stacktrace
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: don't remembet
[11:26] Gavin.Hird and you said, it looks very low level :-))
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: ok.. then it did not told more than that :)
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: put gdb on it
[11:27] Ubit Umarov hides
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: lol
[11:27] Gavin.Hird maybe I have to send you a PI for Christmas
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just thinking that we haven't heard about how goes the work on getting one of the physics engines running on the Pi.
[11:28] Gavin.Hird one?
[11:28] Gavin.Hird Bullet you mean?
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: since ages that ubode works on pi
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Last I heard Gavin tested YEngine on the Pi and saw it working.
[11:28] Gavin.Hird that too
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, might have been that one.
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: I have been away from home, haven't had time to work on my Pi.
[11:29] Gavin.Hird bullet need working OpenGL 2.1 to ghet the screen coordinates for where to place an object
[11:30] Gavin.Hird and the current OpenGL 2.1 support on the PI is very flaky to say it
[11:30] Gavin.Hird they keep updating it, but we're not there yet
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, they are small enough and with one of those small screens you could easily carry a full Pi setup in amongst other items in a suitcase. :)
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:31] Gavin.Hird people use them as personal servers on the road
[11:31] Darri.Cerise afk one here.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well alchemy may have a release that will look better than Assissins Creed Odyssey
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: right Drake?
[11:31] Drake Arconis: I mean. I could totally make it look better but it'd run like dogshit.
[11:31] Drake Arconis: lol
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that's some progress if the problem(s) has been narrowed down to OpenGL support.
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:32] Drake Arconis is just sitting here being unhappy at non-power-of-2-textures
[11:32] Gavin.Hird it both compiles and collides as it should
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: got me.. i forgot to tell at 120fps :)
[11:32] Gavin.Hird but you can't rezz anything from inventory because it does not get where to drop the object in the scene
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: hmm ??
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: you can't rez where?
[11:33] Gavin.Hird it needs opengl screen coordinates for that
[11:34] Gavin.Hird ti just says cannot rezz at opengl coord 0,0 or something like that (don't remmber the exact message)
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: err what are u talking about? im lost
[11:34] Gavin.Hird bulletsim on the PI
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ahh ok blame MB :)
[11:35] Gavin.Hird indeed
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: What else do we have to talk about today?
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: anyone has news about gcg ?
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps I should say that if no one has anything else for the meeting we can end it early. That usually starts us going on some other topic. :)
[11:41] Darri.Cerise *smiling*
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I was afraid you would say that Andrew...
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and selby, kitely mentioned any issues on moving to 0.9.1.x ?
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I think there will be another news update soon. AFAIK, the work is now focused on web page features. Roddie wants some website stuff in place before bringing the full grid up again.
[11:42] Selby.Evans Yes, Ubit, -- they have resolved those that they have found
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: well i had no reports about those
[11:43] Selby.Evans Ilan anticipates a few more problems before the key date when a big school starts a new semester.
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: possible related to their own sistems?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: you know users always find issue :)
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well i do hope they do give some feedback
[11:44] Gavin.Hird One thing that might be worth mentioning is that some developers keep asking Linden lab for opensim support / issues in the TPV dev meetings, and I don't think that is particularly helpful
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: well i did sent a email to that dev asking to not do it
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: and told Arielle also :)
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I asked Ilan about getting a list of all the issues they have found in the code. He isn't prepared to release the list but has stated that the intention to contribute some of the code patches so they can be applied to the OpenSim code base.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird I think it could come back chewing us
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: ty andrew
[11:46] Selby.Evans Maybe related to their own patches, Ubit --and they are retaining ODE as an option for those who have problems with UBODE
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: they should drop old ode
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and use bullet
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: but think they do still have regions that do depend on old ODE
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: for a reason we have the 3 :)
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: a few weeks ago i did ask about removing old ODE
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: but gave up on that for now
[11:47] Selby.Evans Right Ubit
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i may just split the unmanaged library
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: keeping a older one for old ODE
[11:48] Gavin.Hird so an even more unmanaged library
[11:48] Darri.Cerise So I am just getting back in to the OpenSim arena, playing catchup here. So what is the status of UBODE?
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: yeap and on all its variants :)
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: it is old news Darri :p
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i actually tested a change on it today
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and killed it... oops bad change :)
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, that was the "oops" I saw in the changelog. :)
[11:50] Selby.Evans I will use UBODE on my land--I don't expect problems.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: nahh that was a real ooops on commited code
[11:50] Gavin.Hird it works pretty well, but I find myself having to redo physics and re-upload old models as they break when moved from bullet to UBODE
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: the most relevant issue on changing to it is the bad meshes
[11:51] Darri.Cerise I am planing a few projects at the moment. And was wondering if I should stay with Bullet or conisder UBODE is all.
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: you don't set anything on physics, you get a nice CONVEX mesh
[11:51] Selby.Evans Lots of people still have bad meshes that they can't fix
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well must stay on bullet then
[11:52] Selby.Evans Or they don't know how to fix.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: and thing about getting new objects
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: fix implies a reupload
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: not easy for most
[11:53] Gavin.Hird if you still model for bullet, just make sure you have double sided physics model where you want collision from both sides, or you will cut right through from one side whne moved to ubode
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: or then adding a few insible prims to recover a colider
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ah hand that other diference.. ode is single side colider
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but that is less of a sisue
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: and avatars do double side on several cases
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but that hack i did add does have a performance cost :(
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i may just assume unode is single side colider and forget :(
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ..ubode..
[11:55] Selby.Evans Bullet was heavy on resouces when we tried in in Kitely -- Maybe it is better under 0.9-- It will remain available in Kitely as another option.
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: well old ODE is just bad
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: the thing can't even keep you on top of ground
[11:56] Gavin.Hird bullet performs better on newer versions of mono
[11:56] Selby.Evans Goodto hear , Gavin
[11:56] Darri.Cerise I noticed Bulllet is better performance on 0.9.1.X.
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: every thing does perform a bit better on newer JIT :p
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well except when the thing forgets to override virtual functions
[11:58] Selby.Evans I may try Bullet too, and report on improvement
[11:58] Gavin.Hird but I think the performance improvement you get by moving to a more recent version of mono is far greater than anything that has happened to the bullet code itself
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: except those regions with tons of old things made for old ODE
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: you should use Bullet or ubODE
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well not sure those old region scripts wil be also happy with changes on LSL and OSSL
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: we can't stay on older bad versions :(
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: also on viewers...
[12:00] Selby.Evans I am using SceneGate -- using alchemy's mono
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i will fight and refuse and AS IS viewer
[12:00] Gavin.Hird alchemy's mono?
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: but will not do any other fight because older opensim versions
[12:00] Selby.Evans Drake -- Is Alchemy using a recent mono?
[12:00] Drake Arconis: the viewer doesn't integrate mono?
[12:00] Gavin.Hird the only viewer using mono is Radegast
[12:00] Selby.Evans It uses mono
[12:01] Drake Arconis: Alchemy does not use mono.
[12:01] Drake Arconis: lol
[12:01] Gavin.Hird I think you might be confusing the compile for mono or LSL settings Selby
[12:02] Gavin.Hird the LSL setting only applies to SecondLife
[12:02] Drake Arconis: I should really just hide that box on not-lindengrid
[12:02] Gavin.Hird already done for Dayturn
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: i send mono active only now
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Drake, good idea.
[12:02] Selby.Evans I must be -- I was just reading the compile report
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: does it still do anything at sl ?
[12:03] Gavin.Hird so the script is compiled for whatever mono is installed on the simulator server
[12:03] Gavin.Hird it does Ubit
[12:03] Gavin.Hird there still exist scripts of old...
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: they still have 2 engines?? or diferent sintaxe parsing?
[12:05] Selby.Evans Ah -- I understand, Gavin, thanks-- I can check with Ilan
[12:05] Gavin.Hird Actually that is something you should do for Scenegate; hide everything that only works in SecondLife
[12:05] Gavin.Hird it is highly confusing to new users
[12:05] Selby.Evans I will talk to Lisa about that, Gavin
[12:06] Gavin.Hird actaully to any user
[12:06] Selby.Evans Was to me,
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: hmm what does not work here?
[12:06] Gavin.Hird Pathfinding
[12:06] Gavin.Hird the markeplace
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: ahh that.. experiences etc
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: web search
[12:06] Gavin.Hird a number of LL specific support and help functions
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: report user
[12:07] Gavin.Hird event keys
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: event reminders
[12:07] Gavin.Hird usually the gallery for selecting an avatar does not work
[12:07] Gavin.Hird destination guide
[12:08] Gavin.Hird purchasing currency
[12:08] Gavin.Hird voice morphs
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ( nice complexity royale.Mobian  :) )
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: There is code available for a destination guide. I haven't reviewed its code.
[12:08] Selby.Evans We are removing everything that is SL specific -- may not be finished in the 1.0 release
[12:09] Gavin.Hird you can scan the Dayturn xml files and look for only_in_sl tags
[12:10] Royale.Mobian its the jacket and pants i am wearing that make me have the high complexity. I have some custom replacements being made
[12:10] Gavin.Hird not sure of the Alchemy code supports that tag
[12:10] Selby.Evans Oh, that's helpful, Gavin
[12:12] Drake Arconis p the scenegate viewer is based on nearly 3 year old alchemy code at this point
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost quarter past the hour. Does anyone have any last minute questions or comments before we wrap it up for today?
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah it seems not havign some features that are a bit old
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: not to mention animesh
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: How long has SceneGate been in development?
[12:13] Selby.Evans About a1.5 years
[12:14] Selby.Evans Time to close -- bye all
[12:15] Gavin.Hird LL announced they will push an update to their viewer supporting premium plus memberships
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby, ok. Makes it seem odd if they started with a 3 year old version of Alchemy.
[12:15] Gavin.Hird viewers without the code will not be able to log on to SL any more
[12:15] Drake Arconis: Well the thing is
[12:15] Drake Arconis: they only had access to the public code.
[12:15] Drake Arconis: lol
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:16] Drake Arconis: We developed largely in private repositories up until like
[12:16] Drake Arconis: a month or two ago when I was just screw it all lets try dropping the iron wall of silence for a bit again
[12:16] George Equus: I am off too. Thanks for discussion. Bye.
[12:17] Gavin.Hird Bye George
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Drake, if newer code is available then SceneGate can apply some of the changes depending on how much the code bases may have diverged.
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, George.
[12:17] Darri.Cerise Thank you all. Been very informative. Have a good day everyone.
[12:17] Drake Arconis: uh
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bye Darri.
[12:17] Drake Arconis: to put it lightly
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: hmm tring to open a hole on floor drake ?
[12:17] Drake Arconis: they're missing 3 years of me running a bulldozer over the code
[12:18] Gavin.Hird :-)
[12:18] Drake Arconis: 3 years of massive perf refactor
[12:18] Drake Arconis: lol
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:18] Gavin.Hird and massive amount of LL functionality too
[12:19] Gavin.Hird I tried wearing a Bento body and it just messed it up
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: otuch hard ceiling
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I sometimes wonder how much variation there is between the various viewers when (most of them) started from a common code base.
[12:19] Drake Arconis: uh
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: and i did it again.. grr
[12:19] Royale.Mobian alot
[12:19] Drake Arconis: quite significant in some cases
[12:19] Gavin.Hird yes
[12:19] Drake Arconis: like
[12:19] Royale.Mobian firestorm is a prime example of being very different code wise
[12:20] Drake Arconis: my merge ritual for major LL code drops is uh
[12:20] Drake Arconis: a fifth of scotch
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: There will be amongst those who spend the time to refactor the code.
[12:20] Drake Arconis: and about 12 hours of me wanting to punch my monitor
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Drake.
[12:20] Royale.Mobian sounds like you would get alot with someone i know
[12:20] Royale.Mobian *along
[12:21] Drake Arconis: I have a bottle of Lagavulin 16 reserved for when i have to bring in the EEP changes
[12:21] Drake Arconis: lol
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I think this is a good time to call this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.

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