Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-06

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[11:00] Nebadon Izumi is online.
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing?
[11:03] Vivian Klees: peachy
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: fine. if you move between the heat days
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:03] Snow Gravois: i am here for the food :D
[11:03] Vivian Klees: hello Justin
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:04] Vivian Klees: donuts behind me on the right
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: lol snow
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: still shame you cant use delphi good with opensim
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: or in this case lazarus
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hello tiny
[11:06] Fred.Appleby what are the load testing plans, someone said maybe all go t a single region tonight?
[11:06] Tiny.Little Hello Sir. :)
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: i get in kokua unablte to fecth profile data error
[11:06] Jeeper.Shim hi everyone
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hee jeeper
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi jeeper
[11:07] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: ok.. thats maby avatar specific error
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: HG
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: ok that profile error i get comes from HG avatars
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
[11:08] Bruce.Patton would not be on this db in my case
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: at todays load test we wll start out by going to the Keynotes
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: which reminds me
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: then at some point we will jump over to one of the single regions
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i need to increase allowed avatars in one of those regions
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew
[11:10] Snow Gravois: hello
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Richardus
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:10] Armenious.Resident Hi Dahlia :)
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: small crowd today
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: All the important people are here. ;)
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: :)
[11:11] logger sewell: hey all
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: sorry im quiet im just doing a little prep for the load test
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, as I read in the mono code yesterady - outbound http uses the threadpool internall
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: interally
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: there really is no getting away from it
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to leave early to day so I won't be here for the full meeting and will probably miss most, or all, of the load test.
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: each asset request that has to wait ends up tying up a threadpool thread
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: there is a way, dont use the .net code
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: use raw sockets
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: a bit more work lol
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I expect that would need specific work for each platform
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: thats just what i where asking myself
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: no, .net has a socket abstraction
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: if you use the .net abstractio nI expect, at least in the case of mono, that it could very well still use the threadpool udnerneath
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: but I haven't looked at that in particular
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: not if you just use the socket
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: well, async receive from a socket, for instance, will use an iocp thread
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: dont use async
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hmm dahliua does that work only with .net4 ?
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker:
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: no it works with earlier .net
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: the async stuff is a wrapper over it
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: but then you need to implement the http protocol
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: so a lot more work
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: and possible more security holes ? good site maby you have more control
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and a million things to get wrong oneself
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: or possibly less holes :P
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: Im just saying it's possible, not that it's easy
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: yup :)
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any other opensim topics today?
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: anyway it is possible to do multiple http without threading at all, but it might not be possible to create a TCP connection without a delay
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still working on a web page to create event listings. I ran across a couple bugs in OpenSim that I wound up fixing and now I just have an issue left to work out.
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Just deciding how best to keep track of event location.
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: cool
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: are there new progresses to report ? unknown users ? bullet ?
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: so may need at least one thread in the worst case
[11:20] Snow Gravois: you know what would be a great feature
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: writing remote admin tool. still shame robust dont have remote admin console function
[11:21] Snow Gravois: if you could print off screen shots instantly as soon as you took them.
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Snow, that would be a viewer feature.
[11:22] Snow Gravois: still would be cool
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is that would be difficult cross platform
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone uses windows
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: print as in actually send to a printer or save to a file?
[11:22] Snow Gravois: not everyone uses linux
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Depends if there is any standard function call that sends something to the printer.
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: not know why you want to print some picture instant. not see difference between fast saev and print later
[11:22] Snow Gravois: print as in actually send to printer
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i really doubt there is any standard printer functionality between windows linux and mac
[11:23] Snow Gravois: spool to printer i think is standard
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, that would be platform specific code
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it Snow
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: No printing functions in .net that one can call?
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: and yes, all the work would be viewer side
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: thats really off topic for this meeting anyway as said its a viewer issue
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: how are the unknowns justin ? n
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: printer stuff usually calls into a driver which displays dialogs
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dropped off. I think the remaining instances of unknown user may be issues we had before the recent swell
[11:24] Luisillo Contepomi: first good evening all, have some project for implement privacy on parcels as is in sl?
[11:24] Robert Adams: takes a while for everyone to clear their caches
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. Though i have sene a few gun8's
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: perosnally, I think it would be better now to not give any reply for such users, so that a bad name doesn't get stuck in the viewer cache
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: But did you not say gun's can be problem bnecause other side use old simulators ?
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the problems have only been since some time after 0.7.5
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: so old development code, perhaps
[11:26] Snow Gravois: would be simple fix
[11:26] Snow Gravois: just block logins from old sims.
[11:27] Snow Gravois: "Your log in is not compatibal, an upgrade is required"
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: well. is there a way that opensim can send a warning to HG users when the TP to different versions. if not already present ?
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: "teleport failed"
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:28] Snow Gravois: lol
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: The only warning I've seen is after you log in to a region running a different version of OS. That only works if the new instance has a .version file set.
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: No more info dahlia
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: It only says you are in a region running a different version of OS than where you were.
[11:28] Snow Gravois: hmm
[11:29] Snow Gravois: Question, Is there even to block an log in from an older server?
[11:29] Snow Gravois: Is there even a way to block *
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you mean for HG?
[11:30] Snow Gravois: from anywhere that there is an older version of server code.
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not really no
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: k Andrew
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: there is a method i Robust that you could block older versions from connecting to the grid
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but you cant prevent teleports
[11:33] Armenious.Resident Come out with 7.6 and manditory update or your blocked?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: it is possible to do that
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: however that wont be the default
[11:33] vegaslon plutonian: would been useful for multiattach and temp attachments since they turn into real attachments when they enter a older server version
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I think diva tries to make it work with older versions if possible
[11:34] Snow Gravois: Is there a reason not to upgrade from the older instances?
[11:35] Snow Gravois: no not not*
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: depends Snow
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there are many good reasons
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it really depends on the grid
[11:35] Snow Gravois: name one.
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: new version of opensim proves unstable
[11:36] Snow Gravois: right
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: well people have custom web interfaces
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: custom modules
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: not enough time
[11:36] Snow Gravois: I been useing 7.6 a long time now and its no more unstable than it was before. In face its more stable.
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: just to name a few
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: it is better but it goes through patches of instability
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin.. i see more problems with sticking on old versions like 0.7.3 and 0.7.4 then use the latest
[11:37] Robert Adams: I'm not convinced current master has the login/teleport process all fixed
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: which are unpredictable since its dev code
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: nor am I
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: oh it probably Doesnt Robert
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure anyone does
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:37] Armenious.Resident agrees with Robert
[11:37] Robert Adams: I've had a few cases of no being able to login but can log in a different region and then teleport
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: infact i dont think we have really done anything to address the log in issues much
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: most of the focus has been on teleports
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and just attachments in general
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: nothing specific to logins has really been addressed much
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: well, attachments is one of the major cpu hogs on logins
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya im sure some of the work we have done has improved it
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: Is there now some time-out on avatar logins. or is tehre still no option to check if your really conencted to the grid ?
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but we have not totally been focusing on logins specifically
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: is what i mean
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: that's because of all the other issues that have arisen
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back
[11:39] Armenious.Resident I was running tp test this morning... got one good tp lure and tp then server gave out illegal avatar the next attempt (same av) so...hmmm
[11:39] Snow Gravois: Just a quick question, how many of you use huds with lots of scripts?
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, I need to comb through that code and find all the new race conditions
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: which also prevents me working on login
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey shrugs
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i don't really use huds at all
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I rarely use HUDS
[11:40] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          d4c506e: 2013-08-02 00:08:14 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:40] Armenious.Resident doesnt use huds
[11:40] Snow Gravois: I use them.
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: right now not have seen any use for huds much
[11:41] Snow Gravois: myriad hud and a few custom ao's
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble uses huds
[11:41] Snow Gravois: roll playing
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: AO i use the viewer ones
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya roll playing is a good use for them
[11:41] Pathfinder.Lester rarely uses huds these days, since most hud-based features he used to use are now built-in to most 3rd party viewers...
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: most of my time is spent building and huds just get in the way
[11:41] Tiny.Little yes. RP.
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i end up selecting the huds
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: when im trying to select prims
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: drives me nuts
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so i just dont use them
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: can disable hud rendering, theres a keystroke for it
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: only used for while hud to control test train
[11:43] vegaslon plutonian: alt shift h
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: it would be nice if there was a button on the menu for that
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: might have to talk to the Singularity folks
[11:43] Snow Gravois: would be nice some times in Firestorm as well.
[11:43] vegaslon plutonian: firstorm has it right there in the top menue under avatar
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya usualy if one viewer gets them it spreads around pretty quickly
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have any contacts on firestorm really
[11:44] Snow Gravois: i dont see that.
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: alt-shift-h
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: toggles hud
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: wish singularity fixt the lost password almost everyday
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: master dubrovna: still alive?
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: IM him that will make a noise
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: or view->show hud attachments in singularity
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I never see that problem with Singularity in Linux. I only have password problem if I change grid name, instead of changing the username to the one for the grid I want to log in to.
[11:47] Snow Gravois: hmm cool never noticed the built in webpage
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: The button on the right of the username field in Singularity pulls up your list of avatarnames for each grid you are in and shows the grid for each entry so you can switch grids that way.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: My time is up. I need to leave. See you all next week.
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: see you Andrew
[11:48] Snow Gravois: cya
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: laterz
[11:48] Armenious.Resident waves to Andrew
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks waves
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks is offline.
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew i never change grid name. only start many times different viewers. and sofar singularity refuse to create own user directory.
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, any other opensim topics today?
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I dont have anything
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we can get started early on the Load test if no one else has anything
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: looks under the carpet.. cant find anything to
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: no point in sitting here
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, in that case I'm popping to the loo irl
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: brb
[11:51] Snow Gravois: Any other os events planned in the near future?
[11:51] Robert Adams: do we all goto KN1 or should we spread out?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: biggest thing is the Community Conference in September
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble looks under the carpet and see's Nebadon's "unmentionables"
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: Avination has its Birthday on Sept 1st or around there
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: MOSES grid is doing their tests
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have any dates for any of that though
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and yes
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we can start hopping over to Keynotes
[11:52] Snow Gravois: k
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we will start out at Keynotes
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: uri?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 1
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 2
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: 3
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: 4
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: pick any of them :)
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I will see you guys there :)
[11:53] Snow Gravois: no grid or region with that name
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: put that into the map
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the whole thing
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
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