Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-05

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[11:01] Hiro Protagonist is online.
 
[11:01] Hiro Protagonist is online.
 
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hi
 
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hi
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[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey waves
 
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 20:37, 24 October 2015

[11:01] Hiro Protagonist is online.
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hi
[11:02] dan banner: hi sarah
[11:02] dan banner: justin
[11:02] dan banner: everyone
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, dan, folks
[11:03] Sarah Kline: hi Justin
[11:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, justing
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: -g
[11:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi All
[11:03] Vivian Klees: hello
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon doing to be coming today?
[11:04] Jak Daniels: Hi all :-)
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: He is on his way, justin
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi is online.
[11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a quick question about configuring HyperGrid...
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a separate assets database
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and, when I come here, HG is looking at my regular grid database for the assets
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 14:03:46 - [ASSETS DB]: MySql failure fetching asset d9ba3ee3-ad13-4be4-bac8-a0b457ea2c74: Table 'ugim.assets' doesn't exist
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: has anyone seen that before?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: what the heck
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: UGIM i havent heard that term in ages
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that's my old database that holds the grid info
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: UGIM? That was the old system back in the 0.6 days wasn't it?
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that was pre-robust
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: is that very recent?
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: the failing lookups I mean
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: my assets is in a separate database, by HG insists on calling the other database
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no, but I have just reconfigured it
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I though I was missing some new option to cause it.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: does that asset exist?
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure then. If you look back in the mailing list, i did have that conversation recently with someone about using a different connection for asset data
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems that somethig in Robust is creating another asset service using the default database connection
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohh, ok I'll look up that thread
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there must be a section that needs the connection string to be overridden
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thanks
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: could be
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: On a related note, I've been wondering why a grid running 073PF that is not enabled for HG complains about some HG issue when trying to search for a region via the map.
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: Crista was making those simplifying config changes recently so i don't know if it could also be connected with that
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: yes, there's some leakage there
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I'm working on moving to 075PF soon so I'm hoping that will go away.
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it can make an hg complaint in some circumstances even though it can't do any hg checks
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know that for sure - it's not an area I look at regularly
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok.
[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: (just a FYI, I see 5 T-posers here)
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: everyone looks ok to me
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: even though people are sitting down?
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: looks ok to me too
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: guess they just standing to attention for me :)
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. look good to me too
[11:13] Sarah Kline: its an HG think probably
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: or a network thing
[11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ++ I see some, is it a HG visitor thing?
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: packets being dropped or out of order
[11:13] Secret Alt: fresh login, no t-poses
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: could be Sarah though i havent been seeing it elsewhere
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it could be Fred
[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: no bigie, just thought i would mention it
[11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I see twins
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya sounds like it might be HG related, hard to say for sure
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: worth knowing,
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: viewer plays a big role in tihs stuff as well
[11:15] Secret Alt: probably lag induced ari
[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: pinging 168 which is amazing for me
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: at wright
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: used to be 1680 :)
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: ythat kind of number means there's definitely something wrong somewhere :)
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: a big challenge with such complex systems is pinning down where a problem actually is
[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nod
[11:17] Secret Alt: 28ms here
[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: isolating the issue between grid, region, network, viewer etc is complicated for sure
[11:19] Vivian Klees: hi Dahlia
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i been wondering about the possibility of having groups able to access group modules on different standalones/grids at the same time?
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: Hi Dahlia
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: what do you mean?
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: well as an example when i am on my minigrid, i would like to be still able to have access to a group i belong to on Osgrid for example
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: it sort of works by putting the osgrid address for groups
[11:22] logger sewell: Hi all
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: for chat?
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but i can only send messages, not receive when i am on my own grid
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: yes chat in groups
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I thnk one issue here is that it might be difficult to limit to chat. The groups system extends into object owenship as well
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: so that would e or a potential security issue?
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: for just chat, it would almost be nicer if this was done purely through the viewer connecting to some well known opensim-independent IM system
[11:25] Dusty Sands: Hi everyone
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: well, more a "what happens if I select this group as active and create an object" scenario
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dusty
[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i see
[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: just would be a great feature for those on standalones and mini grids
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: though having said this, something must already happen if you have a group selected and you create an object on a foreign simulator
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea what happens in that circumstance
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: it probably says something like group doesnt exist
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: there is a similar problem with OARs and IARS
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you make an OAR with a ton of group stuff set
[11:27] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Would it be a bad thing to find a way of storing a simulator configs (.ini stuff) to another special ini, enabling current setting to be replicated to other simulators
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and load it into a foreign grid you get wierd message about the group
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: why another special ini?
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: if i am making a OAR like the Universal Campus i edit my database prior to making the oar to remove all group data
[11:27] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: sort of a capture
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: what kind of message? It should be the case now that gruops that don't exist are just set to none
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I don't undersand
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ah thats possible, its been a while since ive done that
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, I did addresse some issues in tha tarea
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but in the past before that was fixed it wasnt really a problem
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ahh ok Neb....maybe thats what happened with some object that have no creator owner data on an oar i transferred recently
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: that was my point
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: though it would actually be nice to be able to have OARs create groups if necessary for some cirumstances
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: previously it would just say Unknown or something
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, maybe something like that happens - I really don;' tknow
[11:30] Dahlia Trimble: if oars create groups then they would probably need to also add people to groups, which could get messy
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: are you saying you can get that to work but you need to appending something or other with 'osgrid.org'?
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: the messages out works
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, bt not messages in?
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but not group chat coming in
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: maybe that's just a bug that's worth mentioning to diva
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: so it should work?
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: though I can imagine remote message delivery to hg may be practically impossible
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i assume it isnt something that people normally do
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: as the host grid would not store the URI to send it to if you're not actually there
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: shouldnt be if messages can get to HG friends....
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I think HG friend's encodes the uri
[11:32] dan banner: no i dont think using osgrid groups or profiles on a standalone was ever intended
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but if i am a member of the osgrid group.....?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess the same could be true of groups
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's a good point
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, must provide an override connect string in HGAssets section
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt have any trouble joining a group inside OSgrid if your a HG visitor
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: \o/
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: so may well be worth mentioning to diva to see what she thinks. She is the coder of practically all the hg stuff
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: there isnt
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but i really doubt you will be able to access the group outside of the grid
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it appears you can send messages
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: inside the grid?
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: and other people definitely receive those messages?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: or outside?
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: yes Justin
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: from what arielle is saying, she can send messages externally to an osgrid.org group but cannot get replies
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: they receive even if i send from my own grid
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt seem possible to me
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: unless the standalone was setup to access osgrid groups
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: which would probably be a bad idea to rely on that
[11:34] dan banner: yup
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: osgrid has open group services, maybe it allows some unintended interactions?
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: it only works when i set the GroupserverUri= Remote grid
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: unless the simulator can talk directly to the xmlrpc.php i dont see how it could group chat at all to the grid
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats what I thought Arielle
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that would not be a good thing to rely on
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: that could be it - you could send directly to the osgrid.org groups service but it doesn't know how to send back
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I do not think it would be good for us to support groups outside of this grip personally
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: if your minigrid had public group services it might work?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: the scale of that would be horribly bad
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: because sending messages actually relies on the list of people online, not anything that groups itself stores
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nod
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: too bad
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: would be nice
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i think it would be bad myself
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: say you have a standalone region
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and 1000 HG visitors join your local group
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that would utterly clobber your sim
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: sending out messages to who knows how many grids simultanously
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: wouldnt my message go to the grid group xmlrpc to be dispersed?
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: depends
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: no, it doesn't work that way
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if everyone was from the same grid yes
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: the simulator itself distributes the message at this time
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have people from 100s of standalones/grids
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that gets nasty
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya i guess it does
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ok understood
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya even LL has troubles with groups
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: groups is just a store of who is in what group and what roles, etc.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the way they implemented groups is not good
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they have major issue with group chat too in large groups in SL
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't perform any operations
[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nods
[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ok maybe revisit in the distant future :)
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: what would make more sense to me
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: is someone develop a HUD chat system
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that uses MOAP
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: to connect to some kind of central chat service
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. In principle you could store the HG address in groups like friends
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am intending on developing something soon like that myself
[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: like irc Neb?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: for something we are working on
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: IRC could be used
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh , irc.
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i was thinking something more elegant
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but IRC is a possibility
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: I used to use mibbit in built in browser in the viewer
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but then you could make like a communicator hud that has no bounds
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: irc has the simplifying assumption of no offline delivery and you have to be registered in the chanel to receive
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it would even work in SL
[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but would those be allowed in core?
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: moap is quite taxing though
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would not need to be in core
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: taxing how?
[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: or like it is for groups now?
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: you need a whole webkit instance - takes memory
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it could be a freebie prim you distribute as an IAR
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and that's one less for any other moap usage
[11:43] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          1bc8692: 2013-03-02 01:43:54 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: but pragmatically it's the easiest way
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ive not noticed any performance loss using MOAP myself
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: there's also this: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: One you might not. Once you have more it's a big memory hit
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: allows viewer to use XMPP
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya wasnt SL exploring using jabber at one point?
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: for XMPP?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but abandoned it at the last minute
[11:44] Vivian Klees: correct
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: interesting dahlia, this still works with core opensim?
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: or is it not reliant on the simulator at all?
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: it should
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: its not part of opensim, its a gridproxy plugin
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya was just looking at readme
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sounds maybe a little complicated for the masses
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: ya was more a dev tool
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well once I get a hud chat system working
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i will let everyone know
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we can test it
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: cool
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i am going to need people for some load tests in the next coming months
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: for many things
[11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Yay load testing
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we are going to push things to the edge
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002 checks her safety rope
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: what sort of things getting pushed to the edge?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we want to see what the practical limits for avatar counts are
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: when you have like 4 regions and do a corner setup
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: like they do in SL for big meetings
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: like the intel dsg thingie?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: try to get like 150+ avatars together
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: no while that would be nice, i do not think thats quite ready yet
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: that will be a challenge in a lot of respects
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: 150 people is still a small test for some groups but its a start.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: 150 people in 4 regions though
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: its never been done
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: probably will need some better data collectio nfacilities as well, to assess how hard the ssimulator is being hit, etc.
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: 4 regions that touch that is
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, might be worth just doing 2 regions first. I dunno
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya we'll be doing many tests
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: to see what works best
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and hopefully improvements come out of it
[11:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: whaats the max been for one instance so far? 55?
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we need to focus on stuff like border crossing
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I actually don't know
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know what the practical bottleneck for a single sim is
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we had 85 here once at Wright Plaza
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: whether it's in the sheer amount of network traffic generated or something else
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: I think wright plaza max is 87ish
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it gets rough at 60 though
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 40 in 1 region is not a problem at all
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: and it's highly dependent upon whether people are sitting/standing/moving, number of objects in sim, number of textures in sim, number of screipts in sim
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: But some things were disabled and stuff though, wasn't it?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its when you have 4 regions next to each other with 40 each
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think anyone can say for sure how that would go
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: with all the childeren
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the neighbouring region is a vastly more complex problem
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: all that inter-sim communication
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey hudders
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: and the current bug of losing baked textures on border cross
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of talking
[11:53] Dahlia Trimble: does inter-region chat work?
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it did at one point
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but i am not sure now
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if not its something we need to fix probably
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: I dont recall it ever working
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I do, but it was long ago
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: really long ago
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: are you talking about chatting over a border?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: Does that really not work?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no clue
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we need to test i guess
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I swear I've asked this questio nbefore./...
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: dont think so
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: it really should work
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: have to switch to IM
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it did work at one point
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but i have vague memory of it stoping working
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we made a lot of changes to region comms
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: since I would have thought all that would have to happen is for child agents to get sent chat messages
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and i think that fell through the crack at some point
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: from root agents
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: I suppose it's something most people don't think about at this stage
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: not even an inter-sim comm issue... though maybe I;'m asusming it's more simple than it is
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have thought it's the same mechanism that people see things in other regions
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lets test
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: someone want to come test with me?
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we can solve this right now
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: which is via child agents, not by moving data between simulators
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: well, unless anyone has any other quick opensim questions :)
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: we're pretty much at the top of the hour
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: someone follow me and we can test
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: brb
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Now that groups is being moved in to the OS source tree I wonder if there is any point my trying to finish off getting group notice attachments working with flotsam groups.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: nope
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: does not work
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I still think flotasm is a good idea - it will be much more efficient than the c# service
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: huh
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i sort of remember it breaking a long time ago
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and never getting fixed
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well that sucks
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I do have it half way done. Would be nice to see if I can finish it.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: last time i remember it working, Adam was still submitting patches
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so ya been a while
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: I dont remember it ever working but I cant say Ive tried it for a long time
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: was afk - what is broken?
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its probably not a huge task to make it work
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cross border chat
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Chat over a border? Isn't that partly controlled by a land setting and whether voice chat is to be restricted to a given land parcel or not?
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohh, that doesn't woerk?
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: voice yes
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: text chat no
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: weird
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, typing chat. hm...
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i remember in SL being so mad
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: at people yelling
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: in the club next to my mall
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: felt like punching them in the face
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: well, certainly the code only tries to deliver chat to root agents
[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: lol
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have been wondering if changing the comms broke the scripted movement across borders too
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: scripted movement?
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: well scripts can cross border
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but they have to recompile
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: state should be saved though
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they can now?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: that is my understanding
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i would of course have to test
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i do so little border crossing
[12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a script that used to travel across several regions
[12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, it has been ages since it worked
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: the chat code has been in place since at least april 2012 though probably earlier
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there may be some settings in OpenSim.ini
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: no obvious reason for limiting chat delivery to root agents
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: by default though script states should be passed over border crossing
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but the recompile of the script could take a bit
[12:03] Stefanie Warden: can i find a Ao in here?
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and depending on your script
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, though maybe this is distance calculation linked
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: you might be wiping out the state
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, it just dies
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i remember a long time ago we had to make scripts a certain way because we werent saving states
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Stefanie, how many would you like?
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it does wipe the variables
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, maybe that's why
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya that might be the problem
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: we can't currently tell where the root agent is if they are in a neighbour
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: so you can't do a chat distance calc
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: might require a little rengineering
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: oh
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that might be why it got turned off hehe
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: it would require knowing that position, which is complex unless yo hand the mssage off to the nighbour sim for delivery
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, this is going to be an issue
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we must know child avatar locations though
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: no
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: how would we see them correctly in the nieghbor sim if not?
[12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: does it work if the neighboring regions are in the same simulator?
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: it's our child seeing their root agent
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh maybe that is what it needs
[12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some things used to work in that situation
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and at the moment that's not limited by distance server side
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe it only worked if they are same simulator
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: that is very possible thats how it ever only worked
[12:06] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves*
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: see you dahlia
[12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Dahlia
[12:06] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: tc Dahlia
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: with a small tweak you could deliver but you couldn't account for distance
[12:06] Nicky Perian: later
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: by dahlia
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: so it would broadcast to entire sim?
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: or how would that work?
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you just change Chatmodule.DeliverChatToAvatars() to deliver to all agents, not just root agents. And youignore the distance check
[12:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: or figure the distance on a point outside the region
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: makes you wonder how they do it in SL
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming I'm correct about how tihs works
[12:07] Dahlia Trimble is offline.
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: so ya it would broadcast to the entire region
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it would be interesting to know which approach they take
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: that would be bad
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: when you get near the border
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: does the neighbor sim get any extra info
[12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think the thing with regions in the same sim was IM (at one time)
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i recall in the past that there was a problem with lag
[12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: prims to avatar IM
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: when you got near the border because of comms
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: we must be telling the neighbor region something when we get near the edge?
[12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: was that when they used remoting?
[12:08] Sarah Kline: must go byes
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: see you Sarah
[12:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Sarah
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I should get going.
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess we will need to think about that
[12:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Andrew
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: btw, I hope to look at the avatar kicking problem soon
[12:09] logger sewell: tc Andrew
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: See everyone next week.
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it certainly makes having all the regions next to each other less desirable if cross border chat is not working
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. In addition to cross border texture baking not working
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: right
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: though we can get around that in some circumstances
[12:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ahhh
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect we have enough time to solve both of those issues
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: like a small grid
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Once I get 075 compiling I will see where I stand on attachments to group notices
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i need to test in Avination
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: border cross chat
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: if it works there we can probably get it
[12:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: do we need some utility buss between the regions?
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks is offline.
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it might end up being easier to see what the capacity of a single region really is
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: and whether there are things that can be tweaked to adjust that
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: does a radar pick up on child agent locations?
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they dont' in SL
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: child agents have no location
[12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in most cases
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: how does the veiwer know where to render the avatar then?
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it gets that directly from the simulator?
[12:11] vegaslon plutonian: secondlife I am sure uses their grid wide coordinates
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: when you are in a region
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: in each neighbour region you have a child agent
[12:11] dan banner: my radar tells me accurate distance for people in next door regions
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: it is that child agent that receives data about people and objects in neighbouring regions
[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: mine too
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and sends it directly to the viewer?
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: this does not flow between simulators
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: your talking about viewer rader
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i meant the region radar LSL stuff
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ben: yes, the viewer is effectivley fetching that informatio nseparately from each region
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: makes sense
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer has child agents in each neighbour
[12:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: dan - a scripted radar based on llSensor?
[12:12] dan banner: client side
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: and aroot agent in your current sim
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I should draw a diagram of this one day
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ok well step one before we spend anytime on this
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: is see if Avination has it
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: that could save us a lot of time
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: alright
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need togo
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: its not the end of the world if we cant make that work though
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: just need to rethink stuff a bit
[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks for the meeting, folks
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: see ya
[12:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: tc Justin
[12:14] dan banner: bye justin
[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey waves
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