Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-26

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[10:56] dan banner: hi everyone
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[10:56] BlueWall.Slade Hello
[10:56] Master Dubrovna: Hello
[10:56] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn smiles. :)
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ok brb afk a few moments
[10:58] dj phil: hello dan
[10:58] dan banner: hi
[10:59] Robert Adams: I'll brb also... need more diet mtn dew
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: back
[11:00] anivil finesmith: hi vivi
[11:00] Kahn Khalim: wb
[11:01] BlueWall.Slade wb
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: we sort of have jumping in BulletSim now
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its not quite 100% right
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: you have to hold the pg up button a little longer than normal
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: that will get fixed eventually
[11:03] BlueWall.Slade feet go into the floor a little on the bounce
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they wanted to talk about?
[11:04] BlueWall.Slade wqalking around they're pretty close
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya i wold not go by this avatar
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: as neat as this avatar is, i would not call the rigging expert work
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:04] BlueWall.Slade yeah, I guess things get aligned differently with those?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its tricky to get it right
[11:05] BlueWall.Slade does the body physics work with it?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: It sorta depends on a few factors... hip z offset, the animations activated, the way the mesh is weighted...
[11:05] dan banner: not to mention rabbits are good at jumping
[11:05] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves hello
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: probably not real good
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew
[11:06] Kahn Khalim: hi andy
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade hi andrew
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya watch what happens when i sit
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade haha
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: not good
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:06] Jalen Optera: that bunny could benefit from sl style butt physics
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: why im standing
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i don't know how to really improve the rig
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or I would
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade Hi justin
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back on my desktop as I got the new power supply last Thursday. I'm also on a new Linux distro. I've switched from an end of life version of Ubuntu to the latest Linux Mint.
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: jello
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: :P
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade hehe
[11:06] dan banner: heya justin
[11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: If Qarl's deformer every gets release, butt physics would work on it. In SL anyway... not here.
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:07] Kahn Khalim: hey JCC
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya it seems unlikely that Qarls deformer will ever make it to an official viewer
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: what a waste
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade are TPV picking it up?
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: probably not allowed to
[11:07] BlueWall.Slade shhh
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: because of TPV rules
[11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Some have in an experimental way, but mostly smaller one dev ones.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the old, if LL doesnt do it first your evil spawn of satan rule
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade yeah
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade that's why we need to leave them in the dust
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade :)
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just hope we can see a new Firestorm OpenSim viewer soon
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like its getting pushed back
[11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: To be fair, the deformer was in a tremendous state of change for quite a while. I can see them not wanting creators getting to attached to bad behavior from it.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: because of changes in the LL grid
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the server side baking
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade ohh
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: SSB it on LL's front burner for sure.
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade ezbake
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Followed quickly by materials, it soundsl ike.
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it might be a while before we see a new firestorm
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:10] BlueWall.Slade materials should be a whole lot better than the shiney settings we have now
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen some impressive screenshots
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I think we will see a new Firestorm... they might not have a choice if LL turns on SSB on the main grid. But it will not be the most stable one ever.
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: what is cool too
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: filterforge offers that stuff
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with their texture library
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lots of cool stuff there to try out
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: see how it works
[11:11] BlueWall.Slade woah
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Specular maps will blow current shiney out of the water. Heck, it will let you *make* water, just like our oceans.
[11:11] BlueWall.Slade that would be nice to have
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ooh... could it make proper mirrors?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya it sounds like Windlight Clouds are going to support that stuff also
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have thought LL wouldn't turn on SSB and then immediately yank client side baking
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: That I don't know... I don't think it works that way, though.
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: so expect the skies to change a lot too
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya that probably will happen
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so I really do not know what that means for the TPVs
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade Hi Dahlia
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: My understanding is that there's a region CAP or something, and that the viewer (at least TPVs) will retain old bake code, and be able to use whichever is appropriate.
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: from my understanding
[11:12] Kahn Khalim: if you login with a non SSB viewer, you will see all white
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont have a SSB viewer
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you wont see any textures on avatar
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you get a white avatar with warning message repeating over and over
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: On the LL grid, yes. SSB is all or nothing.
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:13] BlueWall.Slade like the old nude avatar skin probably
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: is that what LL are saying?
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: if LL eventually pulls that out of the viewer code, that could get difficult to maintain
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Yes. Someone asked why they weren't testing on main in just a few region. Nyx Linden (I think) said it had to be turned on for the whole grid, or not at all, as it is designed right now.
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea its basically all or nothing in LL when the switch gets flipped
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I think Dahlia said previously that it wouldn't be too difficult to do server side baking in opensim
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: basically all old viewers will not work anymore
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: you can log in but wont see any avatars
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: there is some baking code in libomv
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: opensim woul dhave to support both client and server side baking. I hope that doesn't turn out to be impossible for some reason
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: it doesnt do texture-less skins tho
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say Justin
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am sure its not technical reasons in SL
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: they want everyone off old viewers
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: they are not going out of their way
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: this would bump people off very recent viewers though
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: the problem with texture-less skins is they are extremely complex and nobody wears them anyway... except maybe Justin ;)
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not like making the old version 1 viewers incompatible
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: me and the n00bs :)
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats what they want
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: everyone on mesh/materials/ssb viewers
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: noobs wear ruth
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they said this was going to happen over a year ago
[11:17] BlueWall.Slade so, we could put some nice noob skins in core to fix that?
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, these timetables practically always slip badly
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Here, it would be nice of sim-ops can run their own SSB baking services, letting us offload that from OSGrid.
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes, could make the default 'ruth' wear something like that.
[11:17] BlueWall.Slade that would be nice
[11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: If it is very recent viewers, I would assume they'd simply update though like with anything else coming down the pipe.
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is on opensim
[11:17] BlueWall.Slade Marcus, we'll have to plumb it into HG
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: the simulators would do the SSB
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: now robust
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Argh HG. :P hehe
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: now=not
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade hmmm, maybe so
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully it could be a service which could be deployed either on sim or remotely
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade that would distribute the load a lot
[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, I don't see any reason the simulators couldn't do SSB. Doesn't seem like it'd make sense to offload it
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if simulators do it
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade ++ justin
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: then HG should not be a problem
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: simulators just fetch assets from remote grid
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: otaku: it's nice to try and keep the load off the simulators though
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade they woujld just have to get the assets from the user's home world
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: LL is having a completely dedicated service for baking, that also incorporates outfit caching. So that's what they're designing the viewer around. Dunno how that bodes for alternatives.
[11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: How much of a load would it add, though?
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: I think it would be easy to implement as a region module since most of the code is already there but it might be pretty CPU heavy
[11:19] BlueWall.Slade could it be made lighter, Dahlia?
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: C# is not good at image processing
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: would it really be any heavier than some of the OSSL drawing stuff?
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: It would just be a bit spikey, wouldn't it? On avatar arrival, or a change of outfits.
[11:20] BlueWall.Slade maybe make it with c++ and use pinvoke to interface to it?
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: yes could be. What we probably need to do is cache appearances better
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: it does a lot of pixelwise operations and uses .net collections to do it
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than this situation by default atm where you keep having to rebake when travelling to different regions
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: simulators rather
[11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah... caching is what LL intends to do, I understand.
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: so its pretty slow compared to something in c
[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Caching is good
[11:21] Robert Adams: sounds like a new robust service
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: LL sims pass baked textures around, I dont think opensim does
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade maybe we could send the baked image data along with the user's other data when moging to another region?
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade ++ Dahlia
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade moving*
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: that would make region crossings worse, I suspect, unless there was a more compilcated exchange where that part was done asynchronously
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: or maybe a special asset class that expires or something
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes. I assume that's done centrally in some way rather than passing between sims
[11:23] Robert Adams: is there a new cap for doing the server side textures? how does the viewer know where to go for the baked textures?
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: no LL passes them around between sims
[11:23] BlueWall.Slade I think makeing a hybrid controler that acts like megaregions when a user moves into a new region would be cool
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: there are temporary assets but that might require a more complicated asset service to expire out of date temporary stuff
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn:
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: ok, interesting
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: why cant the simulator just pass it
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: during the teleport
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the baked asset
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: I thought temp assets were sim-local?
[11:23] BlueWall.Slade it passes a lot of stuff now
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
[11:24] BlueWall.Slade they are, yes
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: if they are going sim to sim then I guess you dont' need to pass them up to the asset service
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that would be wasteful
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: the case that more concerns me is region crossing
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: though
[11:24] BlueWall.Slade we have that "fat pipe" for about a year now to pass data
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: assuming sim-sim is reliable
[11:24] BlueWall.Slade "fatpack"
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we would then need to pass it to child avatars?
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't pass things the size of textures though
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: since its not a grid wide asset
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ?
[11:25] BlueWall.Slade how about child sims?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: I wouldnt want to see it slow down border crossings tho
[11:25] BlueWall.Slade it would need to pass those across to them?
[11:25] Robert Adams: SL has added a lot of sim-sim passing... like the edges of terrain to make crossing better
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you would need to pass it asynchrnously, after the crossing itself had taken place
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: or you could pre-pass it to neighbours - perhaps that's what you were saying, neb
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: interesting - I didn't know that
[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: >SL >sim crossing better
[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: *snrk*
[11:26] dan banner: heh
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I was very surprised recently to find that baked avatars did not properly cross regions when they were on different simulators
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: Am I right in thinking this worked in the past or is this one of those things everybody knows is broken so never talks about?
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: I thought they just rebaked when the crossed?
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's what I thought, but this is not being triggered
[11:27] BlueWall.Slade I don't remember issues with it from the 0.6.9 days
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: the viewer is not re-asking for the appearance data after crossing
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade that is the thing going round the opensim-users list?
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: which is what triggers the rebake
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh maybe it has to wait for another viewer to request the asset?
[11:28] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          2b53f08: 2013-02-25 21:58:00 -0800 (Unix/Mono)
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it isn't riggered that way
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: triggered
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:29] BlueWall.Slade is there a message we're missing on the new avatar?
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: it's triggered by the viewer saying this are my baked texture UUIDs
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: then the simulator searching for those assets, not finding them and requesting the rebake
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I was able to replicate this on LL 1.23.5
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, maybe there is something complicated going on. Need t ocheck what was happening on 0.7.4
[11:30] BlueWall.Slade ok, are we doing somethng with child agents?
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: what do you mean?
[11:30] BlueWall.Slade also, could it be related to avatar imposters - is that the right word?
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yes and no
[11:31] BlueWall.Slade maybe doing something as a child agent that doesn't get done when upgrading to root.
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: no, tjhat is not how it works
[11:31] BlueWall.Slade ok
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: ya what happens now for child agents? what would someone looking in from another sim see?
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: if you want to step through the flows I have documneted them somewhat at
[11:31] BlueWall.Slade thanks jcc
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: a cloud, because the baked textures are not present
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: On teleport it all works fine
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: sounds like there are a lot of missing pieces
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: it's never been a complete solution
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: especially with forcing avatars to keep rebaking on regio ntransfer
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade I remember in 0.6.9 having issues with texture decoding sometimes.
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade if one didn't get all layers decoded, the avatgar wouldn't rez
[11:33] dj phil: Bye bye all :)
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i remember there being some baking issues because of KDU vs OpenJPeg
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye djphil
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade see ya phil
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: bye
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, these are all orthogonal
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i also remember those same kinds of issues in SL too
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: client side baking is to inconsistent
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: This is w ty they are going to ssb right?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the drivers you run
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: can make a huge difference
[11:35] BlueWall.Slade makes sense
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its like supporting 1000 different video cards
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: with 100 different driver sets
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: or support 1 server side system
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its really not even a choice
[11:35] Robert Adams: exactly Nebadon... I'll finally be able to run viewers on secondsary monitors :)
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya gawd
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that problem
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: thats been around since 20060
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 2006*
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i remember in SL being stuck as a completely black avatar head to toe
[11:36] BlueWall.Slade is that why justin's avatar used to be made of anitmatter
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: LL tech support kept telling me to clear my cache
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: MISSING TEXTURE :)
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: turned out it was becasue of second monitor
[11:37] Dahlia Trimble: there are reliable ways to do off-screen rendering in opengl but apparently LL didnt want to go that route
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that one drove me nuts for a while
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: something i keep seeing lately
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: whenever i teleport
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: people say I am invisible
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i have to detach my bunny mesh
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and reattach it
[11:38] BlueWall.Slade hmm
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: seems like a problem with mesh avatars only
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade how about the ghost avatar issue?
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade any news on that?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: dan?
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade yeah
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: last I heard some co-op setting was helping
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Rigged mesh not rezzing is a known viewer bug.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: oh not just opensimulator?
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Nope.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: happens in SL too?
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: LL to
[11:39] dan banner: yes?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade ok, then they're not releated then
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade the ghost avatars
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Bluewall was asking about the ghost avatars
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: Robert is bullet currently supported on 32-bit linux?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dahlia it should be yes
[11:40] dan banner: yes so far i have not seen a ghosted avatar on the sims using co-op
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: great
[11:40] BlueWall.Slade cool
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I get an exception and crash at startup
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: I love being mesh, because I never have to rebake. But the occasional reattach is sometimes necessary.
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: wonder what happened to Justin
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: guess I should mantis it
[11:40] Robert Adams: Dahlia, should be although I do all my testing on 64bit
[11:40] BlueWall.Slade that elephant lost one of it's limbs that day
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: ya 64 works for me
[11:41] BlueWall.Slade maybe that was some part of the issue and was hanging threads
[11:41] Kahn Khalim: JCC crash?
[11:41] Robert Adams: there have been some problems with SO dependencies... could be the 32 bit system has older or newer libraries
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: his net must of went out
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: he went off skype at same moment
[11:41] Kahn Khalim: hh
[11:41] dan banner: he ack'd out
[11:41] Kahn Khalim: ahh
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: it used to work on the same system a few months ago
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tested bulletsim on 32 bit anything
[11:42] Kahn Khalim: lol@dan
[11:42] BlueWall.Slade I ahve to take off for a bit - afk for 15
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: windows xp blue-screened on me
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ouch
[11:42] dan banner: wb justin
[11:42] Robert Adams: 32bit is soooooo last year
[11:42] Kahn Khalim: lol wb JCC
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: still using xp? lol
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it cam with my laptop and I'm too cheap to upgrade :)
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: well my intel cpu is only 32 bit :(
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hey its good enough for NASA
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:42] dan banner: heh
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i still laught at the recent rocket launches
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: all the machines are XP
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I would just run linux on it but sometimes I need a windows box
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: virtualbox
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: not good for opengl
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ah
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: thats true
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: or directx, etc.
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya it does support opengl
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but not good
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: you get like 5fps in viewer
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade justin, dan says that the threading fix you maded seems to have cleared up the ghosted avatars
[11:44] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn would kill for something like PCI passthrough in virtualbox.
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade *made
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that's good to know. I will make it the default soon but I need to think about how to migrate as it requires that clearout of the old dlls
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: it should be possible Marcus, I think KVM and Xen can do it
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, they both do.
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: if that's not done things will still work, but the pre-change DLLs will not get stopped if they misbehave
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade yeah, it will hang some scripts that need perms
[11:45] BlueWall.Slade ok, back in a few
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: what do you mean?
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, don't worry
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics today?
[11:46] dan banner: justin: that bug where people copying your objects sends a copy to them and back you with them as owner seems to be back
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: that's odd - don't think there have been any changes in that area
[11:47] dan banner: not sure when it started
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: though tbh, I don't remember any changes from the last time that was talked about
[11:47] dan banner: ya ive had a few people mention this that leave things on sandbox plaza
[11:48] dan banner:
[11:48] dan banner: i remember it was fixed for a while
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: is there a mantis for this?
[11:49] dan banner: no i havent had a chance to open one yet
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it would be good if you could and put the details in there
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: need to track this properly
[11:49] dan banner: sure
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: any other topics?
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: yes
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: How is the new groups code workingout?
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't had a chance to look yet, though I see Crista has been ironing out some bugs
[11:51] Server: Your 4 objects were returned from <115.583, 127.7174, 23.33268> in region BulletSim due to parcel autoreturn
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't had a chance to check it out yet as I'm finishing up my move to Linux Mint.
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: so you finally foudn that perfect power supply, eh?
[11:53] Kahn Khalim: I gotta split! seeya all next time!
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: bye kahn
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. I paid more than I wanted to but I went with a modular supply which was a good thing. I wouldn't have had room for all the cables of the non-modular supplies.
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't need any of the extra (optional) cables
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I was able to move my plug-in cards around to get better air flow around the video card and the cabling of the new supply has also improved air flow inside the box.
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to get back to some OS stuff soon.
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: The new supply (Corsair TX650M) was only 1" deeper than my original one.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If the changes for the new groups code isn't that extensive I may see if it can be backported to 075
[11:57] Sarah Kline: byes
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the database changes for the new groups system minor vs. flotsam groups?
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its probably very different
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: would be my guess
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know. I think Diva said they could be ported but it's not completely trivial
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that would be cool
[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: I think diva said on the mailing list that the DBs were different, but that the data was largely the same, making migration possible.
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I still think there are advantages to flotsam, etc. because they run on Apache, which is very probably significant more efficient than robust
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: though I think Crista's version implements things that flotasm doesn't have (like group notice attachments) and is more likely to receive some loving from the rest of us
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: right nowe
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, as long as it isn't so "non-trivial" that 076 would be out by the time a back port is complete.
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: :-)
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it's quite possible that would happen
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'd love to have group notice attachments. I was half way through doing that for flotsam but I got lost trying to figure out some viewer/os issues.
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Flotsam's biggest problem at the moment (and correct me if I'm wrong!) is that it isn't really actively being developed or improved. It's mostly been maintained only enough to remain usable with releases.
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't get info back to the viewer.
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: correct
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: a bit similar to mumble, but I just don't have the time to maintain it
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunately, its region module is licensed under the gpl, which makes it pragmatically impossible to put into opensim core
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise I would have added mumble to core, in the same way that the vivox module is in core
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm hoping that seeing how groups was added to OS will give me an idea how to do some of the changes I want to do with search and profile.
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to break them of the need for an external webserver.
[12:02] BlueWall.Slade I have as profiles module that runs in robust
[12:02] BlueWall.Slade it uses json-rpc for communications
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Blue, Nice. I'll have to talk to you about that sometime.
[12:02] BlueWall.Slade I will release it pretty soon
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: could I ask you a favour?
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Very awesome, Bluewall. :)
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure justin
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves*
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see you dahlia
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade I am working on a "raft" of things under the brand name of "SlipStream"
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Bluewall: Does it support wen profiles?
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how json-rpc changes things.
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: web*
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade not yet
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: Could you post the meeting transcript? It's a bit of apain to recover the first half becaus eI lost it in the winxp crash
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure
[12:03] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn nods amiably.
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade plans to though
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: is that like the 'flotsam' brand name? :)
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade needs to do the login dance with the viewer
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ah dang i have all the way back to the bulletsim meeting
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: good thing i noticed that
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: heh
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