Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-24

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[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: No, wish i could do more. but it slowing abit down as hobby to
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: its a big step to relearn a new language
[10:08] BlueWall Slade: there he is - get the torches and pitchforks :O
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: uh oh
[10:08] BlueWall Slade: lol
[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hello
[10:08] BlueWall Slade: Hi
[10:08] BlueWall Slade: collisions
[10:08] Taarna Welles: Wave
[10:08] Sarah Kline: HI Justin
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: jutsuin, giv ehim a pillow
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: what about collisions?
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: they quit working
[10:09] Tsfei Yifu: yes, what about collisions?
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm standing on the floor here!
[10:10] BlueWall Slade: the patch on that mantis is supposed to restore them, but I didn't want to apply it
[10:10] BlueWall Slade: ohhh - the lsl events
[10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: what patch?
[10:10] BlueWall Slade:
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: pulls the pillow away from justin.. it makes him sleepy
[10:10] Tsfei Yifu: how about sending a signal for collisions back to the server side?
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: argh, I done a whoopsie
[10:11] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks is a programmer (amongst other things) but doesn't know enough about C# or the OS code base to do anything that complex with the code.
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: is ok
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: lol
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: didn't mean to delete that line - a sil mistake I should think
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll take a look at it after the meeting
[10:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin: Hey, justin. DIdn't expect to see you. Thought you were still on jury duty for another week.
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: ok, I didn't want to mesws with it until you had a look at it
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: thanks
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: no, that ended week before last now
[10:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ok
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah thanks bluewall - I must have removed a line accidentally whilst simplifying the code
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: believe me, ther'es a lot odf silly junk in those ode files
[10:12] Tsfei Yifu: Justin, you have jury duty in England?
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[10:12] Tsfei Yifu: omg
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I think just us, the USA and some commonweath countries more or less
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: commonwealth
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: I think thats where they actually invented Jury duty
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yep
[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: modern way to torture people...
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I actually think it's very important
[10:14] BlueWall Slade: in this area it's not too bad - we shoot then dial 911
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's not a pleasnt thing to do, to judge somebody
[10:14] Tsfei Yifu: sorry to bring up the mundane, but we can't make meshies work on any of our boxes.... are we just dumb
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol BlueWall
[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: Tsfei, you use the right viewer ?
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: your running the latest versionf Tsfei?
[10:14] Tsfei Yifu: SL 1.23 - SL 3.28
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i mean on OpenSimulator
[10:15] Tsfei Yifu: Yes, OS 7.3.1 and SL 3.28
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: that should work ok
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: though you can't just upload any old mesh
[10:15] Richardus Raymaker: unless you have a error in config
[10:15] Tsfei Yifu: yes, it works on ONLY one of our MAC laptops
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: do these mesh upload ok in SL?
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok so that rules out the simulator then
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats strange for sure
[10:16] Tsfei Yifu: I hesitate to say yes but I think so
[10:16] Tsfei Yifu: at least for the gal who uses the MAC
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: what happens when you try to upload one?
[10:16] Tsfei Yifu: Neb, the truth is, I use only the simple stuff
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu: it's my class that needs the meshies
[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: in what way does it fail ?
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu: i use trees/bushes, etc and SketchLife uploads
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu whispers: we see only
[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: i know i have seen meshes that never appears inworld
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu whispers: only
[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: but upload fine.
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu: only "panes" and impossible "slivers"
[10:17] Tsfei Yifu: REALLY WIERD
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: tsfel: that's all you will see on viewer 1 based viewers
[10:18] Sarah Kline: like your not using a mesh viewer
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: they don't contain support for mesh
[10:18] Tsfei Yifu: but, we also use the SL 3.28
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: and you see eexactly the same thing?
[10:18] Tsfei Yifu: isn't that supposed to render meshies
[10:18] Tsfei Yifu: yup, all corrrupt
[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: you've tried clearing your viewer cache?
[10:19] Tsfei Yifu: we gave up and bought a license to direct import SketchUp Pro/SketchLife
[10:19] Tsfei Yifu: yes, CLEARED the cache(s)
[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: huh buyed license for soemthing that works free.
[10:20] Richardus Raymaker: and sketchup seems to give problems i heared soemthing about not sure.
[10:20] Taarna Welles: Have you tried another viewer like phoenix or firestorm?
[10:20] Tsfei Yifu: SketchLIfe is pay as you go Richardus
[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, I see orenh put in a load of patches. if you do look at them, could you leave the oar/iar ones to me?
[10:20] BlueWall Slade: ok, will do
[10:20] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          6c21e15: 2012-04-24 00:32:01 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: what do you think about that delete any folder patch?
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: that one scares me a bit
[10:21] Nalates Urriah: Shetchup makes loads of small linked together objects. It is advised one use Blender to join objects and then import them.
[10:21] Richardus Raymaker: "delete any folder" hmm that sounds freaky
[10:21] BlueWall Slade: is that Kitely ?
[10:21] Tsfei Yifu: We have imported up to 400+ prims at a time. One of our buildings is +2K prims
[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes
[10:22] Tsfei Yifu: But, they don't have the sutble detail of a meshie
[10:22] BlueWall Slade: Refactored asset/inventory types into a single class ??
[10:22] BlueWall Slade: have to look at that one
[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: i eared from soemone that really big upllads fail;. best to upload ins amll pieces.
[10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I think it's fine as long as the default is to only allow trash deletion, which the patch doesn't do, it allows you to specify that switch on the command line
[10:23] Tsfei Yifu: yes, we do try to stay in the < 250 prim per upload range
[10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I mean in the arguments
[10:23] VivK Lowlag: only if mysql isn't configured properly Rich
[10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: so I don't think we could use that patch as is
[10:23] Tsfei Yifu: is there a way to migrate an SQLite dB between OS instances?
[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, intressting vivK. need to ask that person.. i think he use sqlite
[10:24] Tsfei Yifu: Like you can an MySQL
[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I think the mapping change is fine - it's really just a reorganization o stuff already in SLUtil as far as I can see
[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: tsfel: yes, you can use the same procedures as mysel
[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: though you may need to copy the *.db files
[10:24] Tsfei Yifu: I normally use MySQL but because of the meshie problem we tried an "out of the box install" with SQLite
[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: sqlite stores its data in *.db files
[10:25] Tsfei Yifu: OK, thanks Justin, I'll try it.
[10:26] Richardus Raymaker: how is LSL with latest opensim versions ?
[10:26] Richardus Raymaker: any improvements ?
[10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it's all in the release notes
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: btw, I was curious if you had seen
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: patch to save and restore all ternains in an oar for a megaregion
[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't had any time to look yet - probably won't until back end of this week
[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: save oar on mega is not the biggest problem justin. made a little script with remotae admin..
[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but if someone has done the work and it works reasonably well then that's fine
[10:30] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: but I don't have much time to test megaregion stuff for myself
[10:30] VivK Lowlag: hi Dahlia
[10:30] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia
[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: its more problem (viewer side) that terrain edit etc. where in the past sometimes slow. not done much anymore with mega's until i have a train
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: 1 of the shame things are linden plants
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: or grass...
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: ah nice Justincc
[10:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Nuts! I've got 5 pens on my desk and none of them work properly (if at all)
[10:32] VivK Lowlag: lol
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: cool patch
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: sorry was on the phone
[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: no problem
[10:32] Talun -: you have space for pens??
[10:32] OtakuMegane Desu: I only use pens for stuff like checks. I just use pencils otherwise. More reliable.
[10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Talun, yup. the space between the function keys and the number keys on the keyboard and an organizer thing that sits beside my monitor.
[10:33] BlueWall Slade: we could probably fix some of the megaregion issues
[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: pencils yes. and you can correct easy
[10:33] VivK Lowlag: ?me scribbles a note in the palm buy sticky notes
[10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to write down notes for the online course I'm taking.
[10:34] BlueWall Slade: maybe make an array of the land and index it by the multiples of the region size
[10:34] BlueWall Slade: slide the right land records under it.
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I'd be pretty sure megaregions can be improved but its not the simplest thing
[10:34] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya, what kind of improvements are we talking about?
[10:34] BlueWall Slade: timing could bite
[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: terrain stuff I think?
[10:35] BlueWall Slade: make some of the thing that only work in root regions work in the others
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: one of the things that irks me in Megaregion is the LSL terrain events not working
[10:35] BlueWall Slade: maybe parcels, etc.
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya and editing terrain sucks too
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya parcels
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: those would all be very nice things
[10:35] Dahlia Trimble: ewwww terrain editing is terrible
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya its very slow
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: on the child regions
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: very strange one
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: something with parcel audio where a problem for some people to. but all soem time ago i used mega. i find the problem quick enough when i use it again
[10:35] BlueWall Slade: moving into a megaregion would be good too, if you could come in at any point
[10:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes terrain idit is slow on mega. its the same feeling as edit a neighborn sims terrain
[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: I think moving into a megaregion si one of the things that would require a viewer change
[10:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Megaregions don't seem to do that great with combining terrain.
[10:36] Dahlia Trimble: not just slow, but the "brushes" are very hard to use
[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a fairly strong hunch but I haven't analyzed the code myself
[10:37] BlueWall Slade: justin, I think you are right about that
[10:37] OtakuMegane Desu: If you get into viewer changes, you're headed for the realm of simply having variable-size regions I'd think.
[10:37] Richardus Raymaker: good terrain edit is something you really need. you cant make a mega outside in a program. you still need to edit terrrain inworld. (so betetr make it inworld directly)
[10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I think variable sized regions brings a problem with the map
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: maby with kokua someday.....
[10:38] Dahlia Trimble: justin, any thoughts on a osNpcAtTarget() event?
[10:38] BlueWall Slade: forking off too much means diging a deep hole and pulling the dirt in on top of yourself
[10:38] Andrew Hellershanks: :-)
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: still donmt see ATTzarget as reliable
[10:39] Richardus Raymaker: AtTarget
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya it fails a lot, we should be able to use normal at_target
[10:39] Tsfei Yifu: might anyone know where I could get a viewer without so much social-networking overhead
[10:39] OtakuMegane Desu: Restrict variable size to a certain multiple. Should keep the maps from being messed up too much
[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: does at_target() work for NPCs?
[10:39] Tsfei Yifu: something with just navigation and maybe strong lock0out
[10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, maybe could generate the same target event as prims? For now I was assuming people would have attachments stuck to their avatars which could set up their own target event but that's probably pretty cumbersome
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: Tsfei most of the viewers are very similar
[10:39] Richardus Raymaker: rectangle shapes would be nice. sofar i know not possible with mega's niow
[10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, and at_target might nto be completely reliable
[10:40] VivK Lowlag: Tsfei you could look at CoolVL
[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: otaku: that multiple would be 256 :)
[10:40] OtakuMegane Desu: No, variable size regions last I understood would have to have a viewer change to work.
[10:40] Tsfei Yifu: Neb, that's true. Are there code bases editable in VStudio
[10:40] Dahlia Trimble: how could an attachmeht create an event? with a timer?
[10:40] Tsfei Yifu: VivK, CoolVL, tell me more...
[10:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, 256 would be the simplest.
[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: ah.. good point... attachments can't set targets?
[10:40] BlueWall Slade: attachments catch events
[10:40] Dahlia Trimble: I thought timers were buggy
[10:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Actually wouldn't really disrupt current maps at all either.
[10:41] BlueWall Slade: I have an attachment that uses the at_target
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: I think so Tsfei, though compiling a viewer requires voodoo magic, you need to sacrifice a few animals and dance around a fire chanting sometimes.. :P
[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: which is a poor show
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have little to no experience with the viewer code myself
[10:41] Dahlia Trimble: at_target would be ideal
[10:41] Tsfei Yifu: Neb, i believe you.....!
[10:41] BlueWall Slade: could the npc host scripts themselves?
[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I think osNpcMoveToTarget() woul dbe good to generate an at_target event if that isn't incompatible with existing at_target
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: speaking of NPCs
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: we still need that OSSL permission level
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: to allow NPCs to run OSSL functions
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise you have to allow everyone to run those functions
[10:42] Dahlia Trimble: well any at_target() like event
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: which is not a very good idea
[10:42] Richardus Raymaker: current prim movetotarget complete useless. still not found a fix to prevent spinning
[10:42] Taarna Welles: Neb what you do mean exactly?
[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: could create a new event if necessary - just a bit wary since I don't think opensim has ever done that before
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: you know how we have the allow_osGetSimulatorVersion = ESTATE_OWNER, TRUE, UUID etc..
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: we need one that is like allow_osGetSimulatorVersion = NPC
[10:43] Dahlia Trimble: but would be nice to have an at_target() like event have a user supplied tolererance vector
[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: osNpcMoveToTarget could return an integer target number like llTarget()
[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: but in some cases i seee at_target never triggered
[10:43] Taarna Welles: ah
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: dhalia: move options to osNpcMoveToTarget perhaps
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus i see that also, i was testing NPCs with at_target
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: requires requires a list though, urgh
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: and it was wierd they would get to their location and sto
[10:44] Dahlia Trimble: ya
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: exactly where it was supposed to
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: at_target didnt fire
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: so I would walk up to the NPC and nudge it
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: and at_target would fire off
[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon. only never got a good aim how or where itsgoing wrong.
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: there is a prioblem with moving npcs to exact locations
[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: my conclusion sofar at_target (and maby sensor) + phyics works bad
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: so i stopped use it and moved to using waypoints with llVolumeDetect instead
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: much much more reliable
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: there was a bug raised but I didn't get tiume to investigate it before the next reprioritization wave crashed over me
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: but yes, i have also noticed that too Justin
[10:45] Dahlia Trimble: a tolerance vector would be better than just a distance because it's difficult to know the z value of a target precisely
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes my NPCs stop 2 meters from where they are supposed to be
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: enough to miss the next waypoint
[10:45] Dahlia Trimble: so one could have a larger z tolerance
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: and they totally stop moving
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: very rare, but it happens
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 1 in 5000 waypoints
[10:46] Taarna Welles: Neb, do you know Slow Putzo?
[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: need 3 distance points nebadon :O
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya, I wouldnt say I know them, but I know who the are Taarna
[10:46] Dahlia Trimble: what was the issue with timers that was mentioned in the last few meetings?
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: my experience with Timers Dahlia
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: especially with llVolumeDetect
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: is that if an event interupts a timer
[10:47] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia you mean llSleep ?
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: the thread dies
[10:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, I'm with you on what it takes to compile a viewer. I've never been able to do it.
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: so say you have a waypoint with a llSleep(3)
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: that is triggerd with NPC walks into it
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: so it stops registering events for a few seconds
[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: and another NPC walks into it
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: it kills the entire thing
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: which for me was happening constantly
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: to the point that xengine completely dies
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: I also saw someone else mention that if you took inventory
[10:49] Dahlia Trimble: oh. Im not using waypoints, I generate a path of position vectors to walk along
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: that was in the middle of a sleep
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: the same thing happens basically
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: Don't mix Sleeps and Events
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: very bad news
[10:49] BlueWall Slade: with the new mono, we'll be able to assign yields to those
[10:49] Dahlia Trimble: I would think the event would fire after the sleep
[10:50] BlueWall Slade: then other things can happen until it is over.
[10:50] BlueWall Slade: no stopping the train
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: to be Honest I don't really know the full extent of whats happening
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: and for me it was not a simple here is a script to recreate the problem
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: it literally took 50+ waypoints
[10:50] BlueWall Slade: I think llSleep stops the thread
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: and like 10 NPCs
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: blue, how do you combina new mono + opensim with users that use old mono ?
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: but basically my only solution was remove all the llSleeps from everything
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: and the events wouldn't be able to fire
[10:51] Dahlia Trimble: you have active waypoints?
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: probably some timing things
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: well the waypoints use llVolumeDetect
[10:51] Andrew Hellershanks: If events mess up timers, that sounds like a bug to be reported.
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: and what was doing was doing a llSleep(1) or llSleep(3) or something like that
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: so that the NPC would make it to the center of the Waypoint
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: before receiving its next instruction
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: so it didnt just hit the edge of the waypoint and then move
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: bad idea
[10:52] BlueWall Slade: that happens in a fast loop too
[10:52] BlueWall Slade: moving objects with llSetPos in a loop
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: it actually worked great in small scale testing
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: with 3 NPCs and like 25 waypoints
[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but as I scaled up, things started going horribly wrong
[10:52] Dahlia Trimble: lol that's the way it always happens ;)
[10:52] Ubit Umarov: hi
[10:53] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: hi Ubit
[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: oh then i can have some fun later nebadon :O not sure if my setpos is fast
[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ubit
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: Justin and I also had another experience in a simulator we were doing testing in
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: where llSleeps were being fired off like machine guns
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: man it was horrible
[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: the linkset one?
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: the Snowballs
[10:54] Ubit Umarov: ( oh sorry i was 'blind' rezzing didn'twanted to interrupt the meeting )
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: the most evil script ive seen yet
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: well, this is why I asked for llSleep() scripts, so I can at least knwo for sure what the problems are in this area
[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, it can be viewer side. but i see lag comes if you fire llSay to fast. more like acatlin gun. it create strange things.
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: well you should look at that snowball monster thing
[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: stripped down simple scripts without extraneous guff
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats a prime example
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats the tough part for sure
[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: it's the part other people can do, at least
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i'll try to come up with something
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: did that script someone posted on email list help any?
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt even get a chance to look at it really yet
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: Hopefulyl i can take a look on griday
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: friday
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: nor have i
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
[10:55] BlueWall Slade: I'll try that llMoveTo loop with at_target events
[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: its hard to make example sjustin. because many times its just a way of scripting that just dont work with lsl. (not multitasking) so that makes it harder
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I know that having many sleeps can tie up script engine threads but in theory new ones should be spawned
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya for me its tough too Richardus
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: because in small scale testing it seems fine
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: so recreating what I have seen takes a lot of work
[10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: same goes for me as well :)
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: but I can probably come up with something
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: well, there are a few now I can take a look at
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: or one, rather
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: cool, ya i figured someone on the email list would have something easy
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: I cant be the only person hitting these walls
[10:57] BlueWall Slade: is the main issue that llSleep causes missed events?
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: well for me
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: scripts were dieing
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: ohh
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: event based scripts
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: like buttons stop workin
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: recompiling scripts didnt help
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: only solution was restart sim
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: then 20 minutes later everythign died again
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: wow
[10:58] Dahlia Trimble: is there a way to get velocity of a NPC?
[10:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bug in llSleep implementation or a bug in event handling that messes up other events (ie. Timers)
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its probably something with Threads
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: jamming up the event handler
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: what was odd
[10:59] Ubit Umarov: think is threads it takes
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: was i could compile a new script
[10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Threads can be tricky to deal with to avoid deadlocks
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: like a hello world
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: but any other scripts already running that died
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: they were infinitely dead
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: not at the moment
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: they always move at the same speed
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: nothing but a sim restart could make them work again
[10:59] Ubit Umarov: and also the event time execution control...
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: when you restart the sim, do you remove the old assemblies?
[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: did you look at xengine status?
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: no, because by the time you had asked me that
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i had already removed 100% of the llSleeps
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i had a timeline i had to meet for the project
[11:00] Dahlia Trimble: how about a general collision detect when a npc collides with something?
[11:00] Dahlia Trimble: wow chat lag
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: so its just a matter of recreating it in a more controled setting
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: not atm. stuff gets akwaward because nps aren't treated as prims, and so dont' receive events themselves
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to attach something to them
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok np
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: that would give you velocity
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: ( once i also noticed that that kill of script events wasn't telling smart thread control about the release of the thread.. but was long time ago not sure now )
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: attachment or volume detect (?) is the workardoun, I think
[11:02] Dahlia Trimble: but they are agents? I thought agents get collisions
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: killing scripts is a bit of a nightmare, v messy atm
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, but there's no infrastructure to deliver those events to some script that has registered an interest
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: its a shame there's no command that can trigger event when a llSetPos hits something..
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: plumbing, basically
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: not found any solution for that
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Is it just something in xengine that dies or does it cause additional side effects?
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: not sure if collisions are betetr then sensors :O
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I am guessing its xengine itself poor handling of the event threads, just a guess
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: well velocity could indicate a collision I guess but maybe cant get it
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I would think they should be better
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it seemed like only event driven things would die
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: well, some of this might be just the nature of xengine itself
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: llGetObjectDetails() maybe?
[11:03] Tsfei Yifu: on the client-side all i can do is measure distances... there's no collision packet
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: like buttons, volume detect
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: where code is just complied c#. it makes suspending threads in the middle of an event impossible, for instance
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: yes, but no collision option works. because llSetPos is phantom when you move. or or.
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: or perhaps I should say practically impossible
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: If you need to know when you hit something, that is where collision comes in
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: xengine as no real control on events execution... it just fires it on a thread
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya so maybe if a event gets interupted it just goes haywire
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: that sort of what it seemd to me
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: ( with a code that kills it if takes 2 long )
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: like the event got detached, but is in reality stuck always open now or something
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, for ObjectDetail you need a sensor to know the uuid first :O
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: is the old microthreading issue
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: 3pm. I should head out and get back to my coursework (once I can find a working pen)
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble: i know the uuid already
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: that is where the new mono can help
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, everyone
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: g'bye Andrew
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble: its the uuid of the npc
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: andrew find a shoe then a pen
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble: bye
[11:05] Talun -: use a pencil
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, why a shoe
[11:05] Tsfei Yifu: thank you all
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nue tfsel
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Talun, I prefer a pen for course notes.
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bye
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ( .net 4 as more threading options but don't think usefull for script events needs )
[11:06] Talun -: justin there was a feature request
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: see if you can activate the pen on the shoe andrew
[11:06] Talun -: osNpcSay with a channel number
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: robert adams was looking at upping the tools to v4 last week
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Talun: yeah, that should really be implemented I think
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: I dont' know what came of that
[11:06] Talun -: i will get on it
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Talun: cool! :)
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: ++
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: Talon you want OsNpcSay(Channel, Message);
[11:06] Talun -: yay an eays one
[11:07] Talun -: uuid vhannel message
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I don't know if adding a channel parameter woul dbe a better approach or not
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: depends on what the rest of LSL does - I think that does use channel numbers....
[11:07] Talun -: mantis suggests looking for slash in
[11:07] Talun -: int
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: what about IM to the NMC UUID?
[11:07] Talun -: and parse it
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: NPC**
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: llSay use channel number. for example, many things you can only control on a special chnnel.
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: so uuid sounds useless
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: there's no problem with overloading osNpcSay.
[11:08] Talun -: this is osNpcSay
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: Talun: yeah, i think on balance having a channel number parameter would be better - in line with the rest of LSL
[11:08] Talun -: has to have the UUID of the npc that is saying it
[11:08] Dahlia Trimble: can overload script functions? hmmm
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, the mantis suggests that
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Talon, hat for example if some npc wants to open something on a special chennel. lets say a valve
[11:09] Taarna Welles: Got to go. CU next Tuesday
[11:09] Taarna Welles: Bye bye
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: bye Taarna
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that has been established. Though good not to go overboard I think
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: Talun, i expect the script runs inside the npc.
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: bye Taarna
[11:09] Talun -: parsing looking for /10 would lead people to try /animationname
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: well I used Mic's invoke thingie and it works pretty well so far
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I think if llSay doesn't parse / then osNpcSay shouldn't either
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye taarna
[11:10] Talun -: so explicit number probably better, just like llSay
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I think so
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: well back to NPC fun for me, Bye all :)
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: (bye dahlia)
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately it would be good to have osNpcWhisper, osNpcShout too but that's another matter :)
[11:11] Talun -: the hooks are there....
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: if you have NPcsay, its cant be hard to have a shout and whisper
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it was simply an oversight to be honest
[11:11] Talun -: mostly there just not exposed
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: trying to implent as much npc stuff in as short a time as possible
[11:12] Talun -: i will add shout and whisper too then
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: and if I remember, osNpcSay() was there from way back before I overhauled the npc stuff
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: Talun: cool
[11:12] Talun -: with explictet channel required
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yep
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: basically, as close as possible to llWhisper and llShout, so we can operate by the principle of least surprise
[11:13] Talun -: uuid channel message
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: stuff works very close to how existing stuff works
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: the npc can for example start and stop a train :O
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off. Thanks for the conversation, folks
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
[11:14] Talun -: bye
[11:14] VivK Lowlag: cya next week Justin
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: (cya justin)
[11:14] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[11:14] Sarah Kline: byes
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