Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-27

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[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: man seems to be high % of gas clouds today
[10:04] Master Dubrovna: yes indeed
[10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello
[10:04] Andrew Hellershanks: i see one
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[10:04] NPC Mover v2.3 #0: attach: f9b65def-a763-41dd-b7ef-08700476cd84
[10:04] Jane.Lazuli @ hello
[10:04] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, justin
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: what the heck
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: im walking
[10:04] Andrew Hellershanks: and getting nowhere fast
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: that was wierd
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: ah shit i know what it is
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: the NPC has a AO hud on
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: but its controlling me
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi whispers: not the NPC
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:05] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: do you see me walking in place?
[10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I do
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hm
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: its the NPC's AO
[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot to detach the AO when i made appearance notecard
[10:06] NPC Rezzer v2.3 #0: Removing this NPCs from this scene!
[10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus is not a gas cloud now
[10:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: VivK still is
[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: you where in funny mood nebadon :)
[10:07] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[10:07] VivK Lowlag: grrr
[10:07] NPC Mover v2.3 #0: attach: 7b2022f0-5f19-488c-b7e5-829d8f96b448
[10:07] NPC Appearance Creator: NPC Appearance Creator just gave Nebadon Izumian NPC appearance notecard.
[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: this one looks not so scary..
[10:07] NPC Mover v2.3 #0: attach: 1a4bce91-a8ca-452b-8de8-8e5dbb6316ac
[10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: nice
[10:08] Taarna Welles: Heya Nude :)
[10:09] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: ohhh cool
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: JD Monster
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:09] Dahlia Trimble: monster?
[10:10] NPC Rezzer v2.3 #0: Removing this NPCs from this scene!
[10:10] BlueWall Slade: Neb's NPC
[10:10] BlueWall Slade: not you
[10:10] BlueWall Slade: :p
[10:10] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[10:10] NPC Mover v2.3 #0: attach: cbf88a28-1f08-4667-bf1b-bbc377c91fee
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: lag
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: JCC - not on jury duty yet?
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: next week for 2 weeks
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: yow
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: so I may not be at this meeting, for instance. not sure
[10:11] Dahlia Trimble: ewwwww jury duty
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya 2 weeks thats crazy
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: try to get out of it
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: somone wore bedroom slippers to it the first day and was sent home
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: too late
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: and anyway, it is my civic duty
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: they would have been OK if not for thir facebook postings
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: well
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: just wear a T-shirt on your first day that says "Guilty"
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: across the chest
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: it's the other's civic duty to behave
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:13] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[10:13] BlueWall Slade: hope you get some interesting cases to sit in on
[10:13] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi folks
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[10:13] BlueWall Slade: Hello
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: well, hopefully I'll just get sent home but we'll see
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: hi stiofain
[10:13] Taarna Welles: Hello
[10:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: shame you cannot simulate a crash when your in jury :O
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: almost the worst thing is having to get up ridiculously early
[10:14] Andrew Hellershanks: they say its your civic duty but they don't give you much choice about it. Its almost coercion to be on it. Do it, or else we could throw you in jail.
[10:14] Taarna Welles: LOL
[10:14] Dahlia Trimble: they never do tho
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: so anyway, any opensim issues to discuss today?
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: well, inventory seems whacked up
[10:14] Dahlia Trimble: need moar mosters
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: when i was at Lbsa other day, people kept sending me things
[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: people that need todo jury. the only thing i hear. it sucks. well think complete correct.
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: and sim keeps freezing
[10:14] Dahlia Trimble: monsters
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: its happening alot on Lbsa
[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: as I said, you need to capture a thread dump to tell why it's freezing
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to do that today
[10:15] BlueWall Slade: we found some interesting things about the name caching
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:16] Richardus Raymaker: and that happend since latest osgrid version ?
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: nah its not something thats very new
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: though it does seem worse lately
[10:16] Richardus Raymaker: maby because more people come ?
[10:17] Dahlia Trimble: I figured out how to cause a "slow get"
[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: and i hear script problems are still present to
[10:17] BlueWall Slade: a slow get?
[10:18] BlueWall Slade: how?
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya no ones fixed all the "script problems" Richardus.. lol
[10:18] Dahlia Trimble: have too much crap in the sim so the viewer renderer lags
[10:18] Dahlia Trimble: when it freezes, you get one
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: how much is too much?
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: when the viewer freezes?
[10:18] Dahlia Trimble: enough to make the viewer freeze for a while
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i guess peoples hardware could be a factor
[10:19] BlueWall Slade: the inventory browsing could cause it too?
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: no easy way to answer that question hehe
[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: thats for sure ^
[10:19] Dahlia Trimble: go to busy sim (like this one) and increase draw distance and move around
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i keep my draw distance at 1024
[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, i preffer to stay at max. 256 meters
[10:19] Dahlia Trimble: well use a crappier computer then
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: ive never seen myself trigger the slow get here
[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: or lower
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol ya
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i could fire up the old p4 machine
[10:20] OtakuMegane Desu: I wouldn't be able to move with 1024 on this plaza
[10:20] Andrew Hellershanks: 1024? yikes. That like 4 sims worth
[10:20] Dahlia Trimble: I cant move with 128 lol
[10:20] Richardus Raymaker: i think i can move. but a framerate below 15 is not good.
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya i never have trouble in OpenSim with 1024
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but in SL
[10:20] BlueWall Slade: 512 here
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i need to turn it down to like 128 in SL
[10:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Actually Wright itself isn't too terrible. It seems to be the surrounding regions that have some pretty heavy rendering
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: atleast at Ivory Tower Library of Prims
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: which is basically the only place I ever go in SL
[10:21] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon must have some nice hardware
[10:21] Dahlia Trimble: wright plaza has alomst 4000 unique textures
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a Core2Quad 2.83ghz, 8gb Ram and a Nvidia GTS250
[10:21] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. Nice hardware
[10:21] Richardus Raymaker: why would you look 1024 meters far ? only usefull with snapshots
[10:22] OtakuMegane Desu: How many of the pretty extras do you have on, neb?
[10:22] Dahlia Trimble: because he can?
[10:22] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: ok for a mega you need 1024
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i keep it on Ultra
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: everything to 100% on sliders,
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: 4x AA, Anistropic enabled
[10:22] Dahlia Trimble: well I just have cheapie laptop
[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: ultra. urgh. no then i need a better card. the 275 not strong enopugh for that
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: though in V3 i can't do that
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: v3 i cant even hardly enable shadows
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: without constantly crashing
[10:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm. I do the same but 192 is about the point I have to stop at
[10:23] Richardus Raymaker: ok aa is 4x
[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: v3 performance kind of sucks
[10:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Same hardware, except faster CPU
[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer?
[10:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, i have the opposite feeling sl 3.2 beter engine
[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i pretty much only use Imprudence
[10:23] Dahlia Trimble: Im using singularity
[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: singularity here to. imprudence no mesh. useless
[10:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Imprudence 1.4.0 b2
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya personally, i won't trade performance for mesh
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:24] stiofain nbmcmedia: the guys at bolton university have set up a sort of united nations of the hypergrid they have a region with "embassies" reaction grid and a few others have set up info spots and they asked me to let u guys know about it so am just doing so
[10:24] stiofain nbmcmedia:
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: cool stiofain
[10:24] OtakuMegane Desu: I actually was using Phoenix in SL, then discovered Imprudence literally had 2x the performance.
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: nothing comes close to Imprudence performance wise
[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: i get 35fpsher eneb. high setting.
[10:25] Dahlia Trimble: I was just at "freebee mall" and they have doorways to other grids
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya, Freebie mall is Lindas sim
[10:25] Dahlia Trimble: but I crashed when I wen t thru one
[10:25] OtakuMegane Desu: Firestorm was worse than useless when I tried it on Opensim. Does not liek apparently.
[10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: can you get free honey too?
[10:25] sim core: Ô.o
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: hehe I am sure if you asked Linda to make some honey she would :P
[10:26] Dahlia Trimble: I thought firestorm people didnt like opensim
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: I wouldnt say its about liking it
[10:26] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't pay attention to the politics anymore lol
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: they just don't care much, their focus is SL
[10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: exactly. They don't dislike opensim, it's just not the target of most of their developers
[10:26] cunnie metaluna: anybody using zen viewer?
[10:26] Richardus Raymaker: just cant wait for kokua. hope its useable soon
[10:27] VivK Lowlag: I have been
[10:27] OtakuMegane Desu: All I know is when I tried Firestorm once, it was like being at the center of a crasher. Took a full minute just to quit the viewer.
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: zen, no. wrong skin. firestorm have the same problematic transparency skin in the packadge
[10:27] Dahlia Trimble: singularity seems pretty crash-free
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: Otaku. many viewers have that problem
[10:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Phoenix worked ok on here but worse performance than SL
[10:27] Dahlia Trimble: and it has mesh
[10:27] stiofain nbmcmedia: id bad experience with firestorm too but latest one seems improved
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: singularity, SL3, etc
[10:27] Dahlia Trimble: no upload tho
[10:28] Richardus Raymaker: strange, i saw mesh upload in phoenix in sl
[10:28] BlueWall Slade: I have run Dolphin on Linux and it was pretty good
[10:28] BlueWall Slade: they actually have a decent installer
[10:28] Richardus Raymaker: Most new viewer are just terrible with gui control. and the way you need to do things backwards
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: they are all still works in progress mostly
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: I do like some of the features in v3, it has some nice stuff
[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: sl3.2 not to bad. only some actions todo is terrible
[10:29] Dahlia Trimble: everyone has their own ideas about how to "fix" the UI
[10:29] Oddball Otoole: The latest Firestorm has a flexible UI. not played with it tho.
[10:29] BlueWall Slade: I hope they dont' ditch the web apps
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: but for me there is still too much of a trade off with performance
[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: i love the lightning and shadow in 3.2
[10:29] OtakuMegane Desu: I never understood what was wrong with the old GUI. But then I don't do social networking and I have a brain, so probably just missing something. :P
[10:29] sim core: :-j
[10:29] BlueWall Slade: that would be a huge mistake
[10:30] Richardus Raymaker: the webbased stuff , the can betetr replace that for old system. its terrible and terrible slow
[10:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Otaku: :-)
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: heh, the problem with the old UI is it didnt look enough like facebook or something, who knows what LL was thinking
[10:30] Dahlia Trimble: I think what was wrong with it was they wanted to give a bunch of money to that design company
[10:30] BlueWall Slade: the web based ui opens up a lot of possibilities for us
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i really think between V2/v3 and the web interfaces
[10:31] BlueWall Slade: GUI dialogs, like the old ones limit us
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: they were trying to facebookify secondlife
[10:31] sim core: :-J I hope the web base works soon
[10:31] Andrew Hellershanks: That's like WIndows 8 having an interface that looks like it belongs on a tablet
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya well
[10:31] sim core: *Based
[10:31] OtakuMegane Desu: You pretty much nailed it, Neb. SL wants to be a social network.
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: thats because everyone is moving to tablets
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: yes. i think webbased UI works here much better. SL and web = sl. marketp[lace there own website. not really race monsters
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: Windows 8 will primarily be a tablet OS
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and touch screens
[10:31] Dahlia Trimble: sl already is a social network
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: microsoft has been moving towards touch surfaces for many years
[10:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't care. I wouldn't update to it. I'll stick to XP and Vista.
[10:32] Oddball Otoole: I love win 8 on my touchscreen
[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: i stay away from windows8. until the impement the win7 gui 1:!
[10:32] BlueWall Slade: the new GTK is made for that :/
[10:32] Dahlia Trimble: ya I remember first tablet I saw was windows vista
[10:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          d4beb2f: 2012-03-23 03:39:39 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[10:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw some people had trouble using it due to how they hid some of the controls.
[10:32] Dahlia Trimble: it has that folding screen thing
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya it will be interesting to see what LL does
[10:32] BlueWall Slade: I liked spinning my desktop switcher around
[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: as Tablets become more mainstream
[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: so hard to program , paint, draw. on a tablet :O
[10:33] OtakuMegane Desu: Depends what people actually try to do in SL while using a tablet.
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: i find it kind of surprising LL hasnt done more to do tablet, phone type access
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: but then again, look what that got bluemars
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: i think sl3.2 is already made for tablets
[10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: SL on a phone? :-)
[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: the gui is realy more for tablet suiteable
[10:33] cunnie metaluna: only thing i've seen for tablets was text based
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: well that seems to be the hot new trend everyone is focusing on
[10:33] BlueWall Slade: I think the controls a pretty intense for a pad
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I think phones are just too small for a 3d experience. A tbablet is more visable.
[10:34] OtakuMegane Desu: I wouldn't try to do anything other than chat on a tablet. Sure as hell wouldn't try to do anything creative.
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: viable
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya, probably
[10:34] BlueWall Slade: but, maybe that;'s why click to travel to a point is enabled in betas
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: though some of these new phones are like mini HDTVs in your pocket now
[10:34] Richardus Raymaker: SL gives a tablet meltdown..
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure the controls could be improved on a pad. Touch could ve very interesting
[10:34] Dahlia Trimble: I play 3d games on a tablet
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: really? That seems to be the default for me
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: that's true, even now I expect
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but any game would
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: for the most part, tablet games are nothing like desktop games
[10:35] Dahlia Trimble: has anyone made a tablet graphical viewer yet?
[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: games are far more optimized than this system
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it would need an app designed for a tablet
[10:35] Andrew Hellershanks: some people act as if the old tech no longer exists when some hot new thing comes along
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: well the new ipad seems to get extreme hot with heavy graphics work. and dont get charged battery then
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: just cant slap pc software onto tablets
[10:35] sim core: :-J Tablets are essentially squashed-down i-macs
[10:35] OtakuMegane Desu: I love the people who keep saying desktops are dead
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats not suprising
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: i dont see use for tablet. waiting for a 14" one
[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats why alot of companies are interested in cloud rendering
[10:35] BlueWall Slade: heh, bold a touch screen onto the side of a deskto pcase
[10:36] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi key
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: offload the heavy rendering from the tablet device
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: I guess LL did explore that a bit
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: probably costs a small fortune though
[10:36] Dahlia Trimble: I started working on a android viewer but I got fed up with java ane eclipse
[10:36] Dahlia Trimble: and
[10:36] Richardus Raymaker: here's your tablet sir...... ANd here's the bag with the battery...
[10:36] Dahlia Trimble: I got as far as displaying a few prims
[10:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Java is great for cross-platform, but a pain to program.
[10:36] BlueWall Slade: I've been looking at Lucene lately and it's Java :/
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya, its just a matter of time though before these things are worked out
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: they are already talking about quad core tablets
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: with multi core gpus
[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: Nvidia has 10 core tablet gpus already
[10:37] sim core: :-J Hehe, richardus
[10:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Meanwhile we have 6 and 8 core desktops and 2- and 3--way SLI becoming common
[10:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I have an Android based eReader that I will eventually root once the root process matures. THen I'll have the best of an eReader and a tablet.
[10:38] OtakuMegane Desu: Tablets, laptops and netbooks will never, ever be the most powerful. Not anywhere close.
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: cant belive a tablet + heavy graphics on battery is going to work well.
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: it will eventually
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: its such young technology
[10:38] OtakuMegane Desu: BY the time you work out the power draw and size to fit tech into them, the larger scale is a gen or two ahead.
[10:38] BlueWall Slade: bolt a touchscreen onto the hood af a Chevy Volt
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: just think 15 years ago how inneficient pcs were
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: 6mhz
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: 4mb ram
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: 16mhz
[10:39] OtakuMegane Desu: That's more like 20 years lol
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: probably used as much power or more than our current i7 cpus do
[10:39] sim core: :-) I'd use under-desktops-tower myself, i-phone for the paperwork and wait untill they make new shuffles with linux os compatible ports
[10:39] OtakuMegane Desu: 15 was into the Pentium/PoerPC era
[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: they had a virtual world that ran on commodore 63
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya still
[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: 64 lol
[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: people were still using those machines though
[10:39] Richardus Raymaker: 1995 we already did have 8Mhz and 16Mhz cpu's and maby fatser
[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: i keep them carefull.
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: the faster machines were not in use wide scale
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: what amazes me is people still use dialup
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: tablets need bigger screens. or the need to give it bigger fonbts
[10:40] BlueWall Slade: I worked on 4x486 50MHZ in '89
[10:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Well, if you have no other option...
[10:40] sim core: :-J Dialup is fine, for text messages
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: sounds like a nice pc bluewall
[10:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Wait for colour eInk displays
[10:40] BlueWall Slade: lol, was a server
[10:40] BlueWall Slade: NCR
[10:41] Richardus Raymaker: Dialup. 100 of people use that daily on moboiel phones :))
[10:41] OtakuMegane Desu: You can buy supercomputers from that era on eBay now lol.
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: too bad you need a AC unit the size of a small van to keep em cool
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:42] sim core: :-J
[10:42] Dahlia Trimble: and a nuclear plant next door to power it
[10:42] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[10:42] OtakuMegane Desu: It was always neat seeing them in use though. They had fun designing the cabinets on those things.
[10:42] Richardus Raymaker: and a dump at the otehr side for the waste
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: should be interesting though, I am still not sold on the idea of hand helds
[10:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Everything is just rows of racks now
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: not so much the technology
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: i just don't want to constantly be holding something
[10:42] BlueWall Slade: handy for keeping in contact and doing limited work
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: all radiating me
[10:43] Dahlia Trimble: ya my hands get tired gaming on tablet
[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: i dont see use for a tablet. to expensive , to resticted. and to small screen and not enough power
[10:43] OtakuMegane Desu: I probably want to be left alone and not do work if I'm somewhere I'd need a portable device...
[10:43] sim core: :-J Handhelds to me are console machines(-: Phones essentially)
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention the cellular companies are just absurd with costs
[10:43] BlueWall Slade: and ok as long as it can be a router for a notebook :)
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i was reading something the other day about guy who just got the new iPad 4g
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: he unboxed it
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: and literally within 48 hours he went over his monthly bandwidth limit
[10:44] BlueWall Slade: eeks
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: just watching tv shows
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:44] Dahlia Trimble: lol thats easy
[10:44] Dahlia Trimble: just watch movies
[10:44] Sarah Kline: hi all
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: then its like 10$ a gb
[10:44] BlueWall Slade: Hi Sarah
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: after you go past your limit
[10:44] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i would smash that thing on the ground
[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: 500MB is not much for mobiel traffic. or 1G in the time i talked about it. and the say 1GB is very much for mobiel phone. uhmm
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Sarah
[10:44] Dahlia Trimble: I have 2gb/month plan on galaxy tab and Ive never used it all
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any more opensim specific topics?
[10:45] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh, that's what this meeting is for?
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :)
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: hmm nothing i can think of off the top of my head
[10:45] BlueWall Slade: running OpenSim on iPad?
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it's all about runnig the client
[10:45] sim core: :-S Not much, haven't had the time to try enough the latest version for opensim and should do that in the next few days
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: running the server itself would be eminently possible, if you can get mono to run on it
[10:45] Andrew Hellershanks: 073,1? (although that isn't much of a concern for me now).
[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: well, still working on my mesh train, and hope thats lighter for ode
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: I have seen some things with the ipad you can remote to your desktop and run 3D apps
[10:46] OtakuMegane Desu: The server is very lightweight compared to the viewer.
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: probably friday
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: dunno if anyone has done that with SL/OpenSim viewers
[10:46] Dahlia Trimble: problem with tablet viewers is the protocol is very complex and only implementation that works (besides LL) is libomv
[10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Tried to do a grid upgrade and couldn't due to problems with modules.
[10:46] BlueWall Slade: I want to get the new mono on my machine and see if I can get us running on it
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: which modules Andrew?
[10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ok. Not trying to push you. No rush for me on that any more.
[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, remoyte desktop. one way to get rid of your monthly traffic
[10:46] BlueWall Slade: I would like to get better on the profiling tools
[10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, Not ones publically available.
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, some internal stuff will have change
[10:47] BlueWall Slade: I think we can still run, but to take advantage of it - yeah
[10:47] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, the grid uses some management tool and custom profile, search, group, and money module that were written for 0.7.1 and not binary compatible with 0.7.3
[10:48] Richardus Raymaker: do we get problems with the direct delivery functions sl now have ? it think its complete safe to stay out of it
[10:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Direct delivery is going to make it hard for store owners to track sales
[10:48] Sarah Kline: we had that before SL lol
[10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: If they are seciprt functions then they won't even exist yet in opensim
[10:48] BlueWall Slade: we should look at it after we get the web ui running
[10:48] Key Gruin: that would be a nice feature
[10:48] Key Gruin: again
[10:48] Richardus Raymaker: yes the function the need is nor active
[10:49] sim core: :-J Yes, web ui would be a great next step I find
[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, sofar i know no script functions. it removes the xstreet boxes from sl in a while
[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: so less inworld scripts there
[10:49] Sarah Kline: woot I gain one extra prim on my land
[10:49] Andrew Hellershanks: All the people renting space for magic boxes will lose their revenue
[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: but viewers need to support direct delivery..
[10:50] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh noes, lose spacebux?
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: Good one andrew. onlther land business thats going down.
[10:50] Dahlia Trimble: will scripted delivery cease to function?
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: May the forbid slx boxes on marketplace
[10:50] BlueWall Slade: those are just scripts using normal functions
[10:50] sim core: :-J
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: so, you could still run a service on them
[10:51] Andrew Hellershanks: why does direct delivery need special viewer? Just needs to have message passed to viewer saying new item received (which should already be in place)
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: just not the SL one
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have not paid any attention to much of anything in SL lately
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: I'm guessing that it would use special folders in the inventory
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: you need direct delivery to upload the objects to your marketplace store
[10:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, direct delivery is a change to the SL web based marketplace. It doesn't affect in world sales (AFAIK)
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: right bluewall
[10:52] BlueWall Slade: but, the viewer has a single sign on for the web apps and marketplace is one
[10:52] BlueWall Slade: we can take that url and setup stores too :)
[10:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Good point. How would marketplace know which device is to be delivered?
[10:52] BlueWall Slade: with the magic box?
[10:53] Sarah Kline: does anybody remember we had a similar direct delivery system?
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: yes
[10:53] Sarah Kline: long ago
[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: i think uuid of the boxes / items you upload get transferred to marketplace database.
[10:53] Andrew Hellershanks: That would mean magic boxes won't disappear
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: in elgg
[10:53] Key Gruin: General Store
[10:53] Dahlia Trimble: I thought direct delivery had a special place in your inventory where you could sell stuff from
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: was that the name?
[10:53] Key Gruin: yes
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: I think it does Dahlia
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya that never really worked all that great though
[10:53] BlueWall Slade: you are a merchant in SL - right?
[10:53] Richardus Raymaker:
[10:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, perhaps. I haven't paid much attention to all the extra dirs of v3
[10:53] Dahlia Trimble: ya but no sales lately
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: the OSG General STore was cool, but having to relog to get your stuff was a bit awkward
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: plus the web interface was terrible
[10:54] BlueWall Slade: you rent magic box spaces?
[10:54] BlueWall Slade: lol
[10:54] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks doesn't get many sales a month.
[10:54] Dahlia Trimble: well I have land and I have my own servers and vendors
[10:54] sim core: :-)
[10:54] Dahlia Trimble: but I had a magic box when I used marketplace
[10:54] BlueWall Slade: ahha
[10:55] Andrew Hellershanks: pretty much all my sales come from marketplace
[10:55] Oddball Otoole: direct delivery sells from the marketplace, not your inv.\
[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: well after i updated the box, the items disapeared out of the folder..
[10:55] Dahlia Trimble: my line is really old, need to make new stuff
[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: but still get copy in inventory
[10:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, clothing?
[10:55] Dahlia TrimbleDahlia Trimble lacks inspiration
[10:56] Dahlia Trimble: shoes and jewelry and strange scripted thingies
[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: bad side. you need to update the boxes if you update them. or something like that. not so easy as in the pst. old box out new box in. seems to fail
[10:56] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods
[10:56] sim core: (-: Oh the only thing I might have noticed in the latest version is random jumping sometimes, not sure yet if it's reproductible and why)
[10:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to work on some houses and finish updating texture viewers but I seldom spend time in worlds these days
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya jumping is pretty screwy
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt say thats new though
[10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: sim: random avatar jumping?
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: I did adjust the jump height
[10:56] BlueWall Slade: I have noticed the sun changing really quick sometimes
[10:56] sim core: :-J Right, we had attachments on
[10:57] BlueWall Slade: in SL beta
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean actual jumping or bouncing on the ground?
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker:
[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bouncing a very short height off the ground use to be a physics problem
[10:57] sim core: :-J Otherwise, it seemed fine more like bouncing off from underground
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: May 16, 2012: Magic Boxes no longer allowed for any Marketplace listing
[10:57] BlueWall Slade: yow
[10:57] Oddball Otoole: I'm not able to run scripts in one of my three regions for a couple of osg-version.
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: Odball, are they in one instance?
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: you probably need to change the AppDomainLoading setting in [Xengine] in OpenSim.ini Oddball
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always gets people
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: oh btw justin
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: i heared the latest version have auto setting for appdomain ? as long people set it to auto...
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: that thing you asked me to enabled is enabled here today
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: we ned a hybrid model to create separate domains for user's attachments
[10:59] Oddball Otoole: lemme check the appdomain thing in opensim, but I think it's set right
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: the Appearance loading things
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember the name
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody see grey avatars?
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: its actually been enabled here and lbsa for couple days
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: cloudy is a different issue
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i havent seen grey avatars in ages
[10:59] sim core: ( I see us all standing right now)
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: only the alian :))
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: even well before we changed that
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: alien
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I was still seeing them occasionally
[10:59] Oddball Otoole: I have a grey skin:)
[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: and 1 cloud
[11:00] sim core: 1 cloud
[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I did a lot of work on that stuff but couldn't pin down every single bug
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: sarah is smokeing
[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: smoking hot?
[11:00] sim core: Right, sarah also
[11:00] Sarah Kline: rebaking
[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I kid. Yes, Sarah is a cloud currently
[11:00] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: its white smoke. so it can be hot water
[11:00] sim core: Hehe
[11:00] Sarah Kline: not red smoke anymore heheh
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: there's sarah
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: there 100%
[11:01] sim core: K, rebake worked, now in grey
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: takes a while for textures to load
[11:01] Oddball Otoole: Appdomainloading is set to false (as it should be on linux)
[11:02] sim core: Funny how the hair and shoes always get colored first
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: what does the name cache look like here?
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: this sim almost have 30K prims now
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: still not bad
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hmm thats wierd for sure then Oddball
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe the viewer prioritiizes different texture downloads
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: or possibly they're smal textures
[11:02] Monet FitzgeraldMonet Fitzgeraldhi
[11:02] Monet Fitzgerald: mmm
[11:02] Monet Fitzgerald: everyone is here?
[11:02] Monet Fitzgerald: hi Susannah
[11:02] Sarah Kline: those are prim textures
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi monet
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I think 30k prims is really pretty stressful performance wize though :)
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi monet
[11:02] Monet Fitzgerald: i think you might have crashed
[11:02] Key Gruin: Oddy have you restarted your sime recently?
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: 30k prims in a sim?
[11:02] Key Gruin: hi Monet
[11:02] Monet Fitzgerald: i just restarted my sim
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: depends on the prims I guess
[11:03] Monet Fitzgerald: hey key
[11:03] Monet Fitzgerald: why are we all here?
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Been ages since I had a region with around 22,000 prims
[11:03] Oddball Otoole: more info here (on the script thing)
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: or possibly just the number of distinct textures
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: 30,000 cut and twisted torus would be absolutely horrible
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: monet: this is/was the regular tuesday opensim/osgrid dev meeting
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: ny viewer stats now say (includeing avatars) 32017 prims
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon: You haven't tried that? :-)
[11:03] Monet Fitzgerald: why are we getting bumped here?
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: oh i have
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: though after about 40 of them they start disappearing
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer can only render so many of them
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: oddball: you might want to try the command "scripts start" from the console command line
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: Oddball, are all the regions in a single ionstance of OpenSim?
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: this sim has a lot of prims
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: and textures
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: I use it to test my renderer lol
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: oddball: Or manually clean out the relevant scriptengines/<region-uuid> directory and see if that rests things
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: this sim is a great test sim for OpenSim
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: its seriously overloaded
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its really why we designed it this way
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: your not testing unless your doing something like this honestly
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: and nebadon throw a monster on top of it
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble: I go to one corner and stretch the window so the entire sim is in view
[11:05] sim core: :-J
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:05] Oddball Otoole: Bluewall, yes and justin, tried cleaning the script engine dir, did not work.
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ive been in many places in SL though
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: that are way worse than Wright Plaza
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: in SL you have sims that are like WP but in 3x3
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: can you make 2 instances?
[11:06] Dahlia Trimble: dunno, maybe bare rose
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can see all of them
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya Bare Rose is pretty nuts on textures
[11:06] Dahlia Trimble: but nothing has near as many prims
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oddball: unable to upload is a very odd message
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: not in 1 sim
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: but
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: when you go to mainland
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: the places you talk about run maby 3000 more bad scripts to nebadon
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: there are some areas where 3x3
[11:06] Dahlia Trimble: actually I think wright is worse than bare rose
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can see alot further in SL too
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I would suggest you check that your ports are open, but that shouldnt' be an issue if there are two other regions on the same simulator that are working
[11:06] Oddball Otoole: Justin: I get that every time
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: in SL your not limited to just 3x3 sims visible
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its much further
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: Oddball - try splitting the one that doesn't load into a separate intance
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: so you can run into situtations that are much much worse than Wright Plaza is
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: to the viewer anyway
[11:07] Dahlia Trimble: sure but nothing below a certain size is sent to you
[11:07] Dahlia Trimble: opensim sends everythign
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: thats true
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i guess it depends on if you have your viewer set to 1024m
[11:08] sim core: :-? Ahh
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: like i do
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: linden lab selectively sends object data? Depending on distance and size?
[11:08] Dahlia Trimble: yes
[11:08] Dahlia Trimble: also direction
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting. So if you get closer to a smaller object they will only then send it?
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: yes
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: "interest list"
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: how does the effect work over distance?
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: you dont see small things unless you move closer
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, at about what distance do only larger objects start appearing. 32m, 64m?
[11:09] Dahlia Trimble: or move camera closer
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess it would also depend on your configured view distance
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: I havent characterized it
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: once they load, do they unload as you move away?
[11:10] Oddball Otoole: brb, afk
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: or stay visible?
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think increasing view distance makes small objects show up more
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to head out
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hmm i think you keep them seeing rigt after the are loaded
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: kk, see you Andrew
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting. I'm aware this kind of thing is done but hadn't thought about it much before
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: buy andrew
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, everyone.
[11:11] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: bye Andrew
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: ya they dont go away immediately but they do go away
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: bye
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: It would be really nice to get performance better here on wp for instance, with it's 33k prims
[11:11] sim core: :-J Cu
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya though i dont think WP has 33k prims
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: no dont change it, I rely on it sending everything for renderer testing lol
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its under 30k
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, 30k
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the other stuff is all of these avatars
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: heh. Any change would be an option but I don't see myself doing that soon
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: it changes depending on avatars
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: when the sim is empty of avatars prim count is less
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: more just a future poitn of reference. Another horizon for improving performance
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: I thought hurli added some interest list stuff but not sure it works
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: i dont see the 33K prim loading as big problem, good script support and other things are more usefull
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: he did, but I think it's just prioritization
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I think the stuff Jhurliman did is only for login
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: how prims load when you log in
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: 33k prims isnt the proble, its the 4000 textures
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think movement is factored much
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: true, I keep forgetting that kind of thing
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: we found that it pulls names into the name cache too
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: but delaying object sends would help with that at first since you wouldn't have to load those textures
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: if the viewer doesn't have them already
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: LL viewers have some smarts in them for prioritizing texture loading
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: v3 viewer seems to do a lot better with texture loading than Imprudence
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: there is a project Diva and I are working on
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it uses my sculpted terrain
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its 75 regions
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: on osgrid?
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: with 64 sculpt per region + their surface textures
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its private grid
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its using GIS and Satelite photography for the terrain
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: in the V3 viewer
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: oh neat
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it loads sooo fast
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but in Imprudence
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: my islands here use GIS data
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it takes for freaking ever to become totally unblurred
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: and i have to cam around alot
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: there are issues with texture loading in imp
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: especially with http textures
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I don't see anything like that here though
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: on Wright Plaza
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: which is odd
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: considering how many textures are here
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: you probably have most of wright plaza in your cache
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: well even if i log here with clear cache
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: lot of interest in multi-user stuff on the web ->
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and on the grid diva and I are working on
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: even if i have everything cached, its still blurred
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: until i cam around
[11:18] Basil Sosides: ~ hallo ~
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hi basil
[11:18] Sarah Kline: hi
[11:18] cunnie metaluna: hi basil
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. May or may not see you next week, folks
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin, thanks for coming
[11:19] Sarah Kline: bye Justin
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: have fun in jury jcc
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ha
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
[11:19] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: remember "guilty"
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