Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-22

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[2011/11/22 11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah
[2011/11/22 11:01]  Sarah Kline: hi
[2011/11/22 11:01]  BlueWall Slade: Hello
[2011/11/22 11:01]  Sarah Kline: hello Justin
[2011/11/22 11:01]  Sarah Kline: Blue
[2011/11/22 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[2011/11/22 11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks
[2011/11/22 11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: looks like LL need new people. if the have promo's with 50% off premium
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: so whats that 5$ a month?
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: is that always i wonder or just 1st month?
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: promo's for what?
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: any business always needs new people
[2011/11/22 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: ya especially heading into the holidays
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: the have a limited discount action
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Where is the information on it?
[2011/11/22 11:04]  BlueWall Slade: they added some premium-only areas
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Sarah Kline: we can offer 100% off then
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: lol sarah
[2011/11/22 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: ha :)
[2011/11/22 11:04]  BlueWall Slade: now they're going use them as a hook with the discount
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: just on the webpage andrew
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like they are making a big push to increase premium accounts
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, ok. I don't read their web page often
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: but you still dont get enough from them. its still only 300L / week. lol
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: i hear grandfathered get more then the pay
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: either that or they are trying to plug a leak in the dam
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Sarah Kline: they have a load of empty mainland
[2011/11/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: where just checking if there where new sl3.2 viewer. and saw that
[2011/11/22 11:05]  BlueWall Slade:
[2011/11/22 11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: sarah, and it only get more empty
[2011/11/22 11:07]  BlueWall Slade: that is an example of an ini that I'm using here that fills variables from the system's shell environament variables
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Sarah Kline: hi Key
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... sure they can offer reduction in sign up as a premium member. They'll get all the "lost" money back in the monthly fees that need to be paid
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Key Gruin: hi Sarah, hi everyone
[2011/11/22 11:07]  sim core: :-J I know it was a one time 10usd fee, to register more than one avatar before so it may be on that
[2011/11/22 11:07]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Key
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi key
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: I really doubt LL makes a ton from premium memberships
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: anybody here lots of megaregion experience ?
[2011/11/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: most of their income is from hosting regions no doubt
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: 7$ for premium / month compared to 295$ for a region.
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: memory looks pretty good on the sim
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, Ithink most is from hosting
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: wonder if some of those changes you did is helping with memory justin
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: sim is only using 638mb on show stats
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: that seems low
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Gennifer Eros: Hello all
[2011/11/22 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: possibly - certianly one of them stops the physics holding on to PhysicsActors unnecessarily
[2011/11/22 11:09]  BlueWall Slade: Hello Gennifer
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: I've been exploring what information is in stack traces today
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: cool
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: You can actually use the addr2line tool to convert the mono addresses to mono files and line numbers
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: 596mb with 13 avatars
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: thats crazy low
[2011/11/22 11:09]  BlueWall Slade: ahhhaaaa!
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Gennifer Eros: Will there be at some point a forced upgrade to 0.7.3 or above?
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: Memory is back under control again, Nebadon?
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: intressting
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: but you just started this sim up?
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: hard to say Andrew
[2011/11/22 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: this is 1st ive noticed it
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i only updated this sim about 40 minutes ago
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like its better than it was last week
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: a lot better
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: 50% reduction
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: atleast
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks nods
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but its hard to say if its fluke
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: or actual improvement
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: needs more testing
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I doubt that is due to changes
[2011/11/22 11:10]  sim core: :-J
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: the reduction would be too big
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Gennifer Eros: By the way ned, 0.7.3 does not only screw positions, it also screws scripts on my regions
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ive never seen it this low here
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, which was the fluke? THe high memory or the low? :-)
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: with this many users
[2011/11/22 11:10]  Gennifer Eros: neb even
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: in what way does it screw scripts?
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: you would be the 1st person reporting that Gennifer
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: are you on Windows?
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Gennifer Eros: The stop working even after a reset or recompile
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Gennifer Eros: Yes
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: edit OpenSim.ini
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: [Xengine] section
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: change AppDomainLoadin = false
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: to true
[2011/11/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: that will fix you
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Gennifer Eros: Ok, I will try that now thank you
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: k
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: thats not new though
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: thats a very old one
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Gennifer Eros: I have never had it happen before
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its easy to miss though when you upgrade OpenSim.ini
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Gennifer Eros: I have always left that as is
[2011/11/22 11:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone working on physics? I was trying a firework and the firework rezzed by llRezObject doesn't move. Seems like it doesn't support the velocity parameter.
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: dont set psyics object phantom
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Yoshiko Fazuku: hehe you just reminded me of something
[2011/11/22 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: that should work
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh. Physical objects can't be phantom?
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: yes
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: the seems to refuse moveing if the are phantom
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Yoshiko Fazuku: i forgot to tweek the timer to sl similar speeds in the config
[2011/11/22 11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: hm... ok. I'll try that. I just set the same parameters on the bullet as in SL.
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: phantom objects have no physics presence
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, ok.
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: So the two tick boxes cancel each other
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: possibly - what happens on SL?
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: The firework bullet moves as expected when set to physical and phantom
[2011/11/22 11:14]  Yoshiko Fazuku: sl is kinda backwards
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: what happens if it collides with an object?
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: you can do things like volumedetect
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: on phantom objects
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i think you can have phantom physical in SL
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: No idea. I don't care about that. Its a firework. I want it to move up in to the air before it explodes
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: its not quite the same as here
[2011/11/22 11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it would be nice and save to have verhicle phantom. but its not logic to. it cant feel the ground then anymore
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: In principle you could have an object ignore collisions with anything but the ground
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Yoshiko Fazuku: would be nice if they did it like sl simply becuse a lot of people bring scripts over and cant figure out why they dont work
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, this is the chief for being sl compatible
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Richardus Raymaker: dont use sl scripts :)
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. It should be documented somewhere so people would have a chance to learn the difference
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Gennifer Eros: They dont work cos LL wont allow it lol
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: there are complex questions if things are both physical and phantom
[2011/11/22 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: ll often does these things for very good reasons
[2011/11/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ya matching SL physics stuff is going to be very difficult
[2011/11/22 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: What issues are there with the current master. Still some from dslake's changes?
[2011/11/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: impossible in some cases
[2011/11/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: becasue they do not publish any details about physics
[2011/11/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: we have to guess 100% of the time
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing from dslake's that i am aware of
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I thought you said there were still a few issues
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: there was some stuff with animations
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Yoshiko Fazuku: well behavior is one thing settings and scripting is another
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: but that cleared up with your collision fix
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Andrew Hellershanks: We don't want to completely replicate all of SL's script compatibilities. A lot of SL scripts are bad to start with. Better that some of them break in OpenSim so they can get fixed instead of used as is.
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I blieve there is still some stuff with animations
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: certainly isaw the problems I saw after my changes
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats probable
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Gennifer Eros: True andrew
[2011/11/22 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i saw 2 different things
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: the stuck walking in place is probably still around
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Gennifer Eros: It is
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: the other issues i saw were 100% related to the collision stuff
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Gennifer Eros: I get that a lot
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: walking, flying or failling seems to hang. but its viewer or opensim ?
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: they didnt happen until after your 1st border cross fix
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: then stopped with the collision fix
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey is walking in place right now
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Spike Sol: Good Evening Ladys and Gentleman
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: it was 100% reproducable
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Gennifer Eros: Evening spike
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: you are not on my screen
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: hoi spike
[2011/11/22 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello spike
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: you are standing still to me Justin
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so a local sending proble
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: no move here justin
[2011/11/22 11:20]  BlueWall Slade: hello
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: or at least, not one consistent to all viewers
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ive seen it both ways
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello bluewall
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Key Gruin: I've been getting the walk in place all the tie lately
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: where the person cant see themselves working
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: but everyone else can
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Key Gruin: timef*
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Yoshiko Fazuku: anything new in bulletsim dev lately?
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: and ive seen it where only the user can see themselves stuck walking
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: not yet
[2011/11/22 11:20]  BlueWall Slade: I saw Spike floating off into space, then rubberband back here
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: we have to finalize some things with Contributors Agreement before bullet sim dev can resume
[2011/11/22 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: soon
[2011/11/22 11:21]  Gennifer Eros: Another question, is there any problem if I change to use Grid.ini rather than GridHyperGrid.ini?
[2011/11/22 11:21]  BlueWall Slade: the Patent thing?
[2011/11/22 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2011/11/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: we have been going back and forth with Intel over some wording in the agreement that raised red flags with their legal department
[2011/11/22 11:21]  BlueWall Slade: can you explain that just a bit?
[2011/11/22 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: its mostly worked out
[2011/11/22 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not in summary. Did you read the relevant e-mail?
[2011/11/22 11:22]  BlueWall Slade: yes
[2011/11/22 11:22]  BlueWall Slade: it looks ok to me - if I understand it fully
[2011/11/22 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2011/11/22 11:23]  Gennifer Eros: Ok, off to my region to see if the door issue is fixed, be back soon
[2011/11/22 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: lk
[2011/11/22 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: otherwise use axe gennifer
[2011/11/22 11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: Door issue in OS? Wonder if that is a door script from SL ;-)
[2011/11/22 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: nah, she had AppDomainLoading = false
[2011/11/22 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: that breaks sims on windows
[2011/11/22 11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: lots of scripts dont work
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: i know someone told me sometimes after crahs restart the doors stopped working. but that script looked so basic
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: have no doubt it will work
[2011/11/22 11:25]  sim core: ( I never understood, the use of doors in the metaverse other than visuals :-)
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: more fun to write from scratch. as soon you know how
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: same reason were all human form i guess
[2011/11/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:26]  BlueWall Slade: and sitting on couches
[2011/11/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2011/11/22 11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: no couches. would save lots of work
[2011/11/22 11:26]  sim core: :-J Well, I tried dancing as a robot and humanoid seems more 'Fluid' for that
[2011/11/22 11:26]  Akira Sonoda: Akira Sonoda nods
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: robots can only dance good to binary
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: it seems a megasim if its 4x4 start to do wierd with system load. think mono is going nuts
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: 3x3 i think is ok
[2011/11/22 11:27]  BlueWall Slade: I need to make a script to compare the avatar position/prim position between the broking sit version
[2011/11/22 11:27]  sim core: :-J
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: what a shame. would windows work better ?
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: my OKC Sandbox is a 4x4
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: no problems
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm. i get system loads that go up to 14 or more nebadon
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: ok, good to know i can work
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Gennifer Eros: Thank you neb, that fixed it
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: even with empty sim?
[2011/11/22 11:27]  Andrew Hellershanks: sim: doors are all part of making virtual places look/act like you would expect them to in RL
[2011/11/22 11:28]  BlueWall Slade: hopefully it will be a constant, and I can make a script to fix the sit targets in the region
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: its empty yes
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: no Problem Gennifer, i knew it would
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Grant Silversmith: Hey, you are my neighbor.
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Gennifer Eros: Would be nice if it had been documneted though lol
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: that seems odd Richardus
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: we leverage the conventions of meatspace
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: but need to check anyway soemthing. sda is doing weird with atime
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          b89c48b: 2011-11-21 22:06:43 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[2011/11/22 11:28]  sim core: ( I mean, why not leave them opened as most of the time people do not like opening them :-)
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: its good to know you hvae 4x4. so it must works. its a nice size
[2011/11/22 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya visit OKC Sandbox
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: you can check it out
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: i dont like opendoors
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: i do all my vehicle dev work there
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe, doing that on 1x1 now. but for the big works i need space
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: 18 users 900mb
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty good
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a distinct lowering of memory usage
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure from what
[2011/11/22 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: but there clearly is
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: could be something unrelated
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: normally by now we are well over 1000mb
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm you have some less prims here and scripts ?
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: we still churn thorough far too much memory
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: like more into the 1200-1300mb range
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its certainly not perfect
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: 17 main agents right now
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: but it seems better today
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: far from perfect - it might be a fundamental difficulty with using a VM for the main scene loop
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya someone must have just left
[2011/11/22 11:30]  sim core: :-J Right, I was goinf to say 900mb/ 18 avatars seems to be quite a lot
[2011/11/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: it was 18 when i said that
[2011/11/22 11:31]  sim core: *Going
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: does anybody know how much a LL region use at peak ? say 25 avatars ?
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: if i recall
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: When I log in I often see lots of regios with 25 avatars
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: LL sims are allotted 2gb ram
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: advertised on the main screen
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Yoshiko Fazuku: hehe i wish some one would atempt to do a straight port from c# to C++ just to see the difrance
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: can can spike to 4gb
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: if they need
[2011/11/22 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: but if it goes over 2gb for long they will kick it
[2011/11/22 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: aha. nice for neighborn regions on system. 4GB.
[2011/11/22 11:32]  BlueWall Slade: ohhhh, lol. After working to upgrade some viewer libs, I don't know about the C++ thing.
[2011/11/22 11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: then 900MB is nt bad here
[2011/11/22 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: C# allows one to develop much quicker, I think
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: and it avoides buffer overflows, which is good from a security perspective
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: lol it would take a good year of solid work by several very skilled C++ programmers
[2011/11/22 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: I think it runs acceptible too
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: to fully port opensim to C++
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: loves LSL. feels like basic and delphi. :o still need to dig in C#
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: but it's slower and I think the pause for GC on mono introubles a jolt into the sceen loop
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: just to see that it wont run any better
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: SL is mostly C++
[2011/11/22 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: yeah, the GC could be better
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Derek foggarty: hello :)
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's a problem
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi derek
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: depends BlueWall
[2011/11/22 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: on how good the programmers are
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing is auotmatic in C++
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: but tbh, reducing memory churn would help, I think
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: and you would likely spend 50-75% of your time fixing security holes
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: well , with C++ you dont need mono on linux. it saves extra layer and maby increase speed
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: "maybe"
[2011/11/22 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: :)
[2011/11/22 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: you would need to distribute a staticaly linked binary or somethng
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, nobody is rewriting opensim in c anytime soon
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: also cross platform becomes slightly more difficult
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: or C++
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: or snything else, really
[2011/11/22 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: it woulnd be pretty hard to get all the libs to line up
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: go try to compile a viewer
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: still hear devs scream with viewers and linux :)
[2011/11/22 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: the Ardour project does a good job
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: Sometimes I wish opensim were written in java though. THe JVM and libraries are much more mature there
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: then come back and tell me you want opensim in C++
[2011/11/22 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: but, it's a major job to compile it
[2011/11/22 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: go try compiling a viewer on Windows/Mac/Linux
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer is 3x the size of opensim
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: then come back and say C++ is better
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: but it takes vastly longer than 3x to compile :)
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: is it 3x?
[2011/11/22 11:36]  BlueWall Slade: at least
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: in loc, approximately
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: in terms of file size footprint
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: they are the same
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: arent they?
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i guess its libraries
[2011/11/22 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: they both take about 70-90mb
[2011/11/22 11:37]  BlueWall Slade: it takes me about 2 hours to compile just one of the libraries it uses to build another library
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey is getting a might 3 fps on his windows box here
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: I know I know, need to update the libraries :)
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, drivers
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ya honestly
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: i wish the help command gave more clear info on console. its norw some letter soup. not sure if the wiki have updated page with commands ?
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: im not suprised you have performance issues with that card
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Gennifer Eros: Gennifer Eros has 13 FPS
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: techincally that card is not supported by the viewer
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's true
[2011/11/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its not even a game card
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Gennifer Eros: Gennifer Eros on her piss poor at best 2Mb connection
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: also true
[2011/11/22 11:38]  sim core: :-)
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: hmph
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: heh
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: its an awesome peice of hardware
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: its just not really inline with SL
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: Nvidia Quadro
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, thats a optimized cad/cam card
[2011/11/22 11:38]  BlueWall Slade: at least you have color now
[2011/11/22 11:38]  Gennifer Eros: I have an APU now lol
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Richardus
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: but the drivers are very differnt
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: than a standard Nvidia card
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: was looking at a 560 ti today for my main box
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: that has fixes for games
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and optimizations specifically for games
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: Quadro does not have
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: optimized for opengl with extra commands special for autodesk / solidedge etc
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: yes but not gaming
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: yes
[2011/11/22 11:39]  BlueWall Slade: justincc, did you see that pastebin about the shell variables?
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure you would class sl as gaming
[2011/11/22 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: why pay 2x more for quadra then for a good gamerscard ?
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes
[2011/11/22 11:40]  OtakuMegane Desu: For 3D rendering or OpenCL that thing could utterly toast it's gaming equivalent though.
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Yoshiko Fazuku: i have a ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: justin is right. cant call virtualworld a game
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its a nice piece of hardware
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: but its in a laptop too
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: its not a full on Quadro
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: In terms of the perf load
[2011/11/22 11:40]  BlueWall Slade: I would like to push that - but want to know about foring Nini
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: which also has its own set of issues
[2011/11/22 11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Rewrite the viewer in something other than C++ would be nice. Different build for it would be good too. I've never had any success building viewer code.
[2011/11/22 11:40]  BlueWall Slade: forking
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: realtime is very important for the viewer
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: building the viewer is like jumping from the bulding in the matrix
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's why s omuch gaming stuff is C++
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: no one makes it the 1st time
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: still opensim give a way lower framerate then sl
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: not quite so critical for the server but it could still be a weakness
[2011/11/22 11:41]  sim core: :-J Jumping, from the building...
[2011/11/22 11:41]  sim core: ...nice analogy
[2011/11/22 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: there is so much optimization left in opensim still
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: You meantioned memory aspects in OS but there are also places where there is more CPU over head than there needs to be.
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: we are way jumping the gun on blaming A) C# and B) incomplete mono
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: and very basic stuff
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: also
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: in Windows
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: true
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: we do not easily support x64
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: in 32 bit mode
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: after .net overhead
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: physics is one of the bottlenecks
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: that leaves about 1.4gb for OpenSim
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: that is pure cpu and single threaded
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: which runs out fast
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: at least on ode
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: Bullet is the solution to that
[2011/11/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ODE just barely supports multi thread
[2011/11/22 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: and what i tested completely breaks opensim
[2011/11/22 11:43]  Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks doesn't like the CPU cycle wastage in MapAndArray
[2011/11/22 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's really not a prioblem compared to physics
[2011/11/22 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: there's no point optimizing something without measuring it, and you can see from the client stats where the time is being spent, at least in the main scene loop
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: altohugh that's muddied by gc occasionally inflating some numbers
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I am sure there is still tons of room for improvement to the actual opensim code though
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: that could improve alot of that
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: mono and .net are always improving too
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, absolutely
[2011/11/22 11:44]  OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah.
[2011/11/22 11:44]  Richardus Raymaker: only thing with pshics here it use much more time then in sl. 1 verhicle = 150ms +/- and it seems the sim go nuts if the timer hits 1000ms
[2011/11/22 11:44]  sim core: :-J Lucky, it's a distinct part of the experience and I don't expect any free library to be able to compete with commercial ones perfectly
[2011/11/22 11:44]  OtakuMegane Desu: THe language really isn't the problem.
[2011/11/22 11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: True but its the principle of the thing. It bugs me knowing its there. Since the wastage is only during building (linking/unlinking) its considered by some to not be important to do anything about. I still think a couple minor changes change help.
[2011/11/22 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: even commercial ones are not perfect
[2011/11/22 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: and game designers are constantly making hackish work arounds to fix things quickly
[2011/11/22 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: well you know, patches are welcome
[2011/11/22 11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: Small changes can made a big difference in areas with large group of users.
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, just working on a project I haven't touched in about 4.5 years. I'll get to it soon
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: some of that stuff is used to avoid thread contention and deadlocks
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice if group/invemntory/HG actions dont lock the region
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Andrew Hellershanks: Having to rebuild an array everytime you link/unlink a single item is nuts.
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: ya inventory needs a lot of help
[2011/11/22 11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: not sure if it happens everywhere. but a HG search can freeze you
[2011/11/22 11:46]  sim core: :-S HArd to say, where that comes from Richardus
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: I can utterly clobber a sim with v3
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: if i clear my cache
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, some of that could be network related delays
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: and do a search before inventory is like 50% down
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: if i do a search before then the sim just dies
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: spews 1000's of lines of inventory timeouts
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: "the little improvements"
[2011/11/22 11:47]  sim core: :-J I notice a lot of chatter between regions sometimes, creating the lag it seems and maybe setting a flag to prevent taking care of certain regions would help
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2011/11/22 11:47]  BlueWall Slade: I remember the map for HG was saturating the buffers
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I might implement the inventory cap and see if that makes a difference
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: take that traffic off udp
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: having neighbours sucks!
[2011/11/22 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: its still all 1 big thread ? or its already use own threads ?
[2011/11/22 11:48]  BlueWall Slade: I didn't see any feedback machanism
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza runs a lot better if there are no nieghbors
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: any sim does really for that matter
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Kev Brinner: hi
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev
[2011/11/22 11:48]  BlueWall Slade: the packets are just popped into the buffer to wait - which is ok for the network side
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Kev Brinner: good evening
[2011/11/22 11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: hello kev
[2011/11/22 11:49]  Kev Brinner: rich:)
[2011/11/22 11:49]  sim core: :-) Well, that's to be expected and perhaps instead of having a flag to hide the region from others having the flag hide other regions to itself would help out
[2011/11/22 11:49]  BlueWall Slade: but, if it eats most of your memory by not feeding back some info , or having some top limits, you can eat your sim up in a hurry.
[2011/11/22 11:49]  BlueWall Slade: I'm guessing everything that is network related does that
[2011/11/22 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: and do you not get a big querry length that way
[2011/11/22 11:50]  Kev Brinner: hi hon
[2011/11/22 11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: i know in the past if grid where down i saw load raising. but that where the same system i have again problem with. only now i can access it easy
[2011/11/22 11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: newer not betetr :O
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: came to crash the party whatzz up
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: i have the idea btw that hair get lost a bit more the last time
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: hey justin
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: finally get to meet you :)
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: or dont get rezzed back good
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Matt
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah i heard you cruised by my sim recently
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: and flew into a residents home :P
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I was just randomly wondering aroudn
[2011/11/22 11:52]  Matt CMPNetwork: lol
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Matt CMPNetwork: its all good
[2011/11/22 11:53]  sim core: :-S Saw the lost attachments at zero-zero, not badly placed though and I thought it was mostly viewer related
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry justin, we still dont hav ebreakable glass in osgrid
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Ni LemonBrinner: Good evening all
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Andrew Hellershanks: What is the status on the lost & found at 0,0,0 of attachments? Anyone else seen that again recently?
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Ni
[2011/11/22 11:53]  sim core: * A while back
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Matt CMPNetwork: oh i did notice 1 thing
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Matt CMPNetwork: justin question about lost and found issue
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: I hadn't head of that
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Matt CMPNetwork: i noticed with items when you collect them they are going into lost and found
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Matt CMPNetwork: instead of inventory
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: or trashcan matt
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Key Gruin: nebadon, you found some stuff at 255,255,0 right?
[2011/11/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: collect?
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: made a while ago a mantis
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah collect - take
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Sarah Kline: if you sit on a prim then delete it you end up at 0.0.0 )
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, np. Just asking as nebadon recently found a stash of stuff at 0/0/0 recently
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: when you take them back from rezzing them
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: they go into trash can or lost and found
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: yeah, that's a bug that should be fixed :)
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: if you take objkect or return justin. the dont always end where you expect them.
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: you go into someone's pocket
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Sarah Kline: heheh
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, that sounds like a bug of some description
[2011/11/22 11:54]  sim core: :-J Sitting is supposed to send you to zero-zero I believe
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: or your own pocket...
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: also about groups
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Matt CMPNetwork: when will that module be fixed
[2011/11/22 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: sitting attached you as a link object to the prim, if it has a sit target
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: so if someone throws a message to a group it wont lag your system or server
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: its same as rezz object from inventory folder. then delete the folder. then take object back. the objects ends in the trashcan in the deleted folder
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: Matt, when are you planning on providing the fixes? ;-)
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: it's not a consistent problem
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: it always likes to bog down my server when someone says notices or messages a certain group
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: probably won't be fixed for quite a while
[2011/11/22 11:55]  sim core: ( untill the buffered data frees up)
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: ok just curious
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: thats my questions ha
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: i am good now :P
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: I entertain vague thoughts of doing a core implementation of groups, but tjust don't get the time
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: disable group chat matt
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: Group stuff should be made a module that doesn't need an external PHP stuff
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: no no its not that
[2011/11/22 11:55]  Matt CMPNetwork: say someone is on my sim
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: they blast a message out to a group
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: and i get this killer error notices on my console
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: when i am logged into ssh
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: error notices?
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: spits out all sorts of group stuff
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah
[2011/11/22 11:56]  BlueWall Slade: if the group is large, the database has to store one for each
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: and bogs down the memory
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: hardcore
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: it almost is like a memory leak
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, why is many times so terrible slow ?
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: to some degree with that group message notice
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: If it is spttingout red text, capture the info and paste it somewhere so it can be looked at.
[2011/11/22 11:56]  BlueWall Slade: well, it stores one for each member whether it's large or small.
[2011/11/22 11:56]  Matt CMPNetwork: i did
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Matt CMPNetwork: i had posted it on mantis
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Matt CMPNetwork: about that group issue
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: bug #?
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah mantis on opensimulator posted it
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Richardus Raymaker: i wanted to fin my mantis, but page dont load
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Matt CMPNetwork: hey Key
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Matt CMPNetwork: sup homer
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Richardus Raymaker: hi key
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Key Gruin: hi Matt Rich
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Gennifer Eros: Evening key
[2011/11/22 11:57]  Key Gruin: hi Gennifer
[2011/11/22 11:58]  Matt CMPNetwork: good good
[2011/11/22 11:58]  Matt CMPNetwork: thank you
[2011/11/22 11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: ok, cant access the webpage. its waiting
[2011/11/22 11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe..
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Ni LemonBrinner: one question please, when we get our inventory folders in OpenSim Library, how can we delete them there? The folders stay and I only could get back by copy paste the full perms items.
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: this one is copnfirmed. but i think its also todo with lost & found.
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: you have to copy it Ni
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: the whole thing
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: right click the item
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: say its a script
[2011/11/22 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: ok
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: Matt, if I can find the group bug in mantis, I'll put a watch on it. Search, Profile, and Groups stuff are things I am interested to work on.
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork:
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: then paste it into primary inventory
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: no getting around that
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: there is my issue
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork:
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Ni LemonBrinner: thks Neb
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: when that happens
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: my server gets nailed hard
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: just spits out red errors and then it actually crashed my whole server a couple times
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: even my music sites were down database wise
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: i had to do a total cold reboot
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Matt CMPNetwork: that sorta sucked
[2011/11/22 12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: wich version you use now ?
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: version of opensim?
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: yes
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: there isn't enough detail in that mantis.
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: newest one
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Key Gruin: is there a mantis for being stuck walking in place?
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Mimetic Core: lol
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: You need to attach the reelevant log
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: well that was the only output it showed
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: key: no, but there should be
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: in the console before it crashed
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, timeout issues accessing the XMLrpc stuff.
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: and i had to reload whole system
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: why are you talking about red spewing errors then?
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: that was what it was spitting out
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: in red
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: ha
[2011/11/22 12:01]  Matt CMPNetwork: and bottom part in yellow
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: spewing would be lots of errors
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: ow
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Gennifer Eros: I get a number of yellow warning but no red errors
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: well it just kept repeating that error
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: probably a thread lock
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: over and over
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: are you running on mono?
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: yup
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: sent you a Im about that
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I suspect the client is gcontinually making the request and not being happy with th eresponse
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, can't deal with IM
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: i use a dedicated server linux CentOs
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: 64 bit
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Matt CMPNetwork: 4 gigs memory and 3 gig processor
[2011/11/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you remember seeing that before?
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: oh hey neb
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: :)
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: some rogue client doing it, it seemed
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah it was nerfed hard lol
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: okay, you need to run with the --debug switch to get line numbers
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: i think they were inviting friends
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: from a group or posting
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: the surl
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: and it tried to send everyone a offline message as well
[2011/11/22 12:03]  Matt CMPNetwork: i noticed that too
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going. Got some errands to run then I can finish reviewing changes in 69 files to make sure no changes slipped in that I didn't want.
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: the Group spew?
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we see it occasionaly
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: yeah
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: probably best to turn off Group Messaging
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: but
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: oww ok
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: its off on all the plazas i think
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: so if i do that
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: it wont allow people to message groups on my sim right?
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: let me look
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: so the downside
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: would be what about my group
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Matt CMPNetwork: for my music site and region
[2011/11/22 12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Is there a generic class (or something) in OS for issuing DB queries?
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: that would be down too as well right?
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: building and/or issuing
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: it's all in the OpenSim.Data packages
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: k, that makes sense.
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Richardus Raymaker: matt, you can disable group IM. but group notices etc keep working
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: cool
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: now that i will do
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: lol
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: MessagingEnabled = false
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: now will it prevent them from sending a group IM to other groups
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: while they are on my sim
[2011/11/22 12:05]  Matt CMPNetwork: so it wont overload my system with there client
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: yes, and recieve Im is blocked to
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: See you all next week
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: fabulous
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Sarah Kline: bye andrew
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: going to totally nail that in the coffin
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: ha
[2011/11/22 12:06]  BlueWall Slade: bye Andrew
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: i have 1 more error i see alot
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: and i think you responded to that justin
[2011/11/22 12:06]  Matt CMPNetwork: somethign about the git
[2011/11/22 12:07]  Matt CMPNetwork: or wait until the next release build
[2011/11/22 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: mantis number?
[2011/11/22 12:07]  Matt CMPNetwork: hold on
[2011/11/22 12:07]  Matt CMPNetwork: let me grab it
[2011/11/22 12:07]  Matt CMPNetwork: gotta wait sites overloaded
[2011/11/22 12:07]  sim core: :-J
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: what site is overloaded?
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: opensimulator
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Richardus Raymaker: is terrible slow. dont load pages
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: cannot even get to the login page
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: for mantis
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: give your hampsters some crack
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: tell them to hurry up
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[2011/11/22 12:08]  Matt CMPNetwork: lol
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: server is hardly using any CPU
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Richardus Raymaker: or turn some lights off matt :)
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Matt CMPNetwork: bandwidth ?
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: not using any IP either
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Matt CMPNetwork: err database
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Matt CMPNetwork: could be spiked
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, just pre-empted and restarted opensim
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, apahce
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: apache
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Matt CMPNetwork: prolly mysqld issue
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: there was hardly any accessing being done, not sure what is going wrong
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Matt CMPNetwork: with apache
[2011/11/22 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ok
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: it feels better
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think you're guessing too much , Matt
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe memory
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I just restarted apache
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: wasnt swapping
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats wierd
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: feels better though
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork:
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork: there ya go
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: its like 1000 times faster now
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork: that is the one you replied to
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork: :)
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork: but i posted another comment back
[2011/11/22 12:10]  Matt CMPNetwork: at the end comment
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Matt CMPNetwork: that is pretty much the only other error i got beyond the group issue
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Richardus Raymaker: wish we could make a mega region out of more opensim instances. spread load much better :O
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Matt CMPNetwork: other then that just the server likes to spike below 30 FPS
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Matt CMPNetwork: and sets off my lag detectors richardus made for me ha
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no, it's right down again
[2011/11/22 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: Matt: in that mantis you implied it was fixed in the last comment
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: each mantis should have only one problem in it
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Matt CMPNetwork: no no
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: the console issue is well know - it's not fatal
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: must be something network related at
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: the machine looks fine
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Matt CMPNetwork: i just said i had updated my opensim
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its not io bound or out of cpu or memory
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe - but it that case restart apache2 shouldn't fix it
[2011/11/22 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: matt: no, your last comment says something different
[2011/11/22 12:13]  Matt CMPNetwork: hold on
[2011/11/22 12:13]  Matt CMPNetwork: the last comment i will pastebin it
[2011/11/22 12:13]  Matt CMPNetwork:
[2011/11/22 12:13]  Matt CMPNetwork: that was the very last comment to that mantis
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: exactly, that's an entirely different issue
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: oh
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: hurmm
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: ok
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: then new tech report?
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: see if one exists first
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Richardus Raymaker: sounds like a script error
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: this is actually a well known issue where the solution isn't known
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: aww ok
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no it doens't
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen it as lsl error to
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i installed iftop on opensimulator
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Matt CMPNetwork: so no solution fix right
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm ok
[2011/11/22 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: no one is sucking up all the bandwidth
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe something at data center
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: no known fix
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: jus tignore it
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: ok
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: good to know
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: checks of list :)
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: ok physics and elevators and vehicles
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: lol
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Sarah Kline: Bye all see you next week
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I have to to go
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Gennifer Eros: Bye sarah
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Ni LemonBrinner: bye Sarah
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: when or is that ever possible?
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah, folks
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: aww well it was nice to meet you
[2011/11/22 12:15]  Matt CMPNetwork: briefly :)
[2011/11/22 12:16]  Matt CMPNetwork: thanks for the heads up on them issues
[2011/11/22 12:16]  Chrysocolla Rau: Cheerio
[2011/11/22 12:16]  Matt CMPNetwork: i will kill group IMS
[2011/11/22 12:16]  Ni LemonBrinner: bye Justin
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