Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-08

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[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it works fine. other time you try it fails
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: wrong sit sarah :)
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] dan banner: i clicked it
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] Primitive: Stop
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: hi jcc
[11:01] dan banner: make it say the name that clicked it
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: its working ok here
[11:01] dan banner: lol
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus. bluewall, folks
[11:01] saera pfeffer: Hiyas JCC
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: maby you can try it later in sandbox.
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:02] dan banner: hi justin
[11:02] Sarah Kline: dont like the twitcy leg one lol
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hi justin
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: it works sometimes fine. i see it go wrong most the first time i use it
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: If you want to see the list of functions new SL functions, take a look at
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: move 1 sit then sarah
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Justin did you see that Dave has been setting up Jenkins?
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yep, I saw your link
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: looks good
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like the name of a butler.
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: still busy with learning old commands lol
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I totally failed to get Panda to use 2.4.3
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Panda ?
[11:04] dan banner: reminds me of WoW
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: there is some seriously voodoo magic going on
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: either that or the code is hidden some where
[11:04] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          559e6e5: 2011-11-06 20:43:49 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: because what i traced down
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think it was that bad, nebadon. I just wasn't sure about the Environment check for mono.
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what i did changing the init.rb
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: it still saw mono
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: setting it in .bashrc didnt help
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: that code is just horrible
[11:04] saera pfeffer: leroy...
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Panda == DevCommitsSeppuku
[11:04] dan banner: yup
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: there's several new ones dealing with media
[11:05] saera pfeffer: lol
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, what version of mono is the default on that machine?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: also it appeared to be configured for SVN
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: That's an easy thing to fix.
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: wich linux version ?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i could not on earth figure out how the hell it was possibly working with git
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't surprise me - the install would have been done a very long time ago
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: no Andrew ours was using git
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but all tue configs said it was using svn
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: this is what I mean about panda - it's not something worth spending the time to fix
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so i was missing something i dunno
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its so not worth spending another second on
[11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Plus no norris.
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: jenkins is well supported
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: yeah
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: soon we'll be Jenkinsified
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: whats panda doing at all ?
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: k. I don't know what external configs it was using. init.rb would have needed two lines change for git use (url and rtype line).
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: they have a girls module too
[11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: At the moment, it's pissing the devs off. It's the automated build thingy, Rich.
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: aha sort of git clone
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: panda is/was the continuous integration systems
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: I think someone fed our panda after midnight and it turned into a gremlin
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: it builds and automatically runs the regression tests after a checkin
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: dont throw water on it neb
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hmm whats worser, a gremlin or a alien ?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, water first then feeding make a bad pair.
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: need to setup a monument to it on Bade Plazza
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: I"m not sure a dead panda sends the right message. ;)
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: giant bronze statue of a panda in a guilotine
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: could just remove a couple of limbs
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember a pair of large panda statues in SL near where I first arrived in the grid.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya they used to have that Zoo
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Think it was pair (mother and cub).
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats where the whole hippo thing started
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: This wasn't naer a zoo.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: hehe, it's still a zoo
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I just had odd and bad behavior in my sim. I haven't yet checked my log or console, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen it...
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, do you have already a vertical alevator ?
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I tried to copy a script from the child prim of a linkset into an inventory folder. It just didn't happen.
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I have been working on an Elevator
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: Same here marcus, you nee to unlink it
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: did it come from an HG avatar?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i have a non physical one that works fairly well
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it even opens and closes the doors
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its a pain in the ass to setup at the moment though
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: The script/linkset? No... it's my creation, here on OSGrid.
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i was hoping to make a physical version
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: No Blue. just build complete here. i never can drag script oe so out of child
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but i just have not had the tiem
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: time*
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: Yes nebadon. i now udnerstand how to do that type to.
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya not being able to take stuff out of child prims has always been a problem in opensim
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: I passed an object to my OSG avatar yesterday and the contents were only available here - on this region
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: htat usually works?
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: I'll restart and try again after the meeting. If I can repro it, and maybe get a log snippet, I'll mantis it.
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its never worked in OpenSim
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: restarting will not help
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: I had to come here and unpack the contents, then go to a sandbox and repack it.
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: huh
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you need to unlink it
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: You can't copy a script from a child prim in a linkset to inventory?
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that's poor
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Wow.
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: correct
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: So it's known behavior then, though.
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you should be able to
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: but it does not work here yet
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: ok, what I saw was unrelated.
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i'll log in to Avination later
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and see if you can there
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: I'll work through that later and doc it.
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: then see if i can get melanie to port it over if it does
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea though if it does there
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i always want to see if she has fixed sitting on non scripted prim at all
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, cuz that's a pretty bad chunk of missing functionality.
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it does suck
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: I mean, I just created new scripts and copy pasted, but that's a PITA.
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ive run into it dozens of times myself
[11:14] dan banner: it certainly explains some things ive run across
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya or unlink just that one prim
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: last days same here marcus. always need to unlink and relink
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: thats not always possibility though if prim order is a concern
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Now that I know that it works in an unlinked set, I can try that until it gets fixed, ta.
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: *ya
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i preffer to create a complete frsh link so i have only 1 root for sure
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so do you know what the deal is with the linking linksets change by Melanie?
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: I always worked on sets unlinked until I'm done. Problem is this set was done, but getting upgrades.
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the problem was before when you linked multiple linksets
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: or added a single prim to an exisiting linkset
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the order changed
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: her code fixes that
[11:15] dan banner: it works correctly now
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: we need the avatar to link to objects properly
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have you tested that since her changes?
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, prim link order is properly maintained and done in a way that makes sense so its easy to know how the order will wind up when linking.
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: avatars have the same root class as objects, so it should be do-able.
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: unless link order is not stable you need to send linkmessgaes to all prims ? thats what i do. not sure if send to one works
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: is that why mouselook is wrong when an avatar sits on a child prim?
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think so, but maybe there's is some relation
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: it might have something to do with it
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya hmm, be good to get that fixed
[11:17] VivK Lowlag: please do
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: for now we have been keeping seats unlinked
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: in SL you can move the avatar like a prim in a linkset
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to avoid peoples view being down in the floor
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ah
[11:18] dan banner: usually its looking up skirts lol
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: I think they are added to the end of the set
[11:18] dan banner: i thought it was a feature
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Mouslook when sitting has a viewer JIRA over at LL... you can't look up and down as freely as when you're standing. Is that what you're refering to?
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: I was looking into that a few weeks ago.
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya no this bug is soley a OpenSim Issue Marcus
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: kk
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: the same behavior is not observed in SL
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: with this when you have say a couch
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: the camera goes to the root prim
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and all the sit prims are child prims
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Ohhhhh... yes.
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: when you sit and go into mouse look
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: your camera view goes to the root prim
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Sorry... I know what you mean now.
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and not the prim your on
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: i have a problem that i need to rotate the sit prim so the avatr sit wrong. but the rest of the verhicle is right
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: it should go to the avatar
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: but i would think it should go to the avartar itself
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: if i place avatar right the verhicle rotates. lol
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: Something similar happens wven when you're not in mouselook.
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: I think the way we sit the avatar and associate it is related to that
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: that is when I started making that camera tool, lol
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use an object you're sitting on as a pivot when moving your camera, it doesn't revolve around your center, it revolves around the object's center.
[11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't beleive it works like that in SL.
[11:21] dan banner: right marcus i always wonder why rotation seemed offset
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like a camera position bug
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: sits always give me a light headace with camera
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: not only here
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I've never complained about it... it always felt low priority. But would be nice to have it work as expected.
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok Avination does have it so you can drag inventory out of child prims
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: let me get on Melanie about that
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome. Crack the whip on MelT :)
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: she has sitting on prim working too
[11:22] dan banner: ooh
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: physics sessions doing border crossings???
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: ?!?!?
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that i dont know and if she does
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ??????????!?!
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt hold your breath on getting that one
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[11:23] dan banner: heh
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: how with veriables vs megas and opensim ?
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: that one is kind of tough
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: that is why they made fatpacks
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: it seems btw, what i have seen at oyther place. that mega's cant have different parcel sounds on other regons
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I have a feeling this viewer is going to crash sooner or later
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: which one are you using justin?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: everything is getting slower and slower
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Which viewer, Justin?
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: Thats easy to say justin. a viewer crahs always sooner or later :O
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: 3.0.3. I have whisper installed, it might be todo with that
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: [ 91%] Building CXX object newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/lltoolplacer.o
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not looked if there's a newer 3.2
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone tried 3.2.x?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer takes asbolutely ages to build
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: i have it installed, but it crash so easy with map teleports
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: I'm updating llqtwebkit in this one
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I have never managed to build viewer source
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: LL had issues with it, so we'll see how it goes
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: I'm trying to get the system certs to work in the webkit and curl
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: then, I want to add some handling for login response items to make all the web interfaces work for us
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: hey Dahla
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: web interfaces?
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: profiles, search, market, dashboard...
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, it's not just a case of changing a hardcoded url somewhere?
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: or urls?
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: do I have hair?
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: You're very hairy, Daglia. :)
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: I think they don't keep, mostly
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: and it's a PITA for users too
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: so, if we can sed them in the login response with all the other things, we can open up V3 for us
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: that would be very cool
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: they're only taking about 60 items
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: another 8-10 would be ok
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: since they do megaprims now, it would be a pretty good viewer for us, especially with the mesh support
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Is it just me or does the INvetory windows in 3.* never seem to stop working at something? Like it's always waiting for more to download or something.
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: lol, mine was allhosed yesterday
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: I had to resort to wearing the barrel again
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: megaprims but does the viewer not limit it hard to 64 meters ? or its server side ?
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: viewer
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: would you be planning to send a patch to sl? Do you think they would take one?
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: but, that's pretty sensible for most of the time
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus I thought that happened a lot with V2
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I think it's both these days, Rich.
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: well, they put in the map url patch
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: we need to implement the newer inventory cap
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: that might possibly help
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: Yuppers, Dahlia... I saw it in V2 and 3
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: interesting
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: and, hopefully, I'm solving some things in the Linux build. So, maybe it will help things along.
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I thought we did implement the new cap
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes, but then they did a second one
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which I think is the one now used
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: Justin, have you been in the viwer code?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise it falls back to udp I think
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya i can say invnetory loading with v3 on OpenSim is wretched
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: only in a very brief way
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: it never finishes loading
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i can never get much past like 15000ish items
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and that takes a lot of work
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: i thin 3.2 did betetr work then singularity 1.6
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: normally it will stop for the 1st time around 2500
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I have UDP inventory and texture download forced
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: then i got to coax it several times
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: http is too buggy even in SL
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I do find http texture download on 3.x is every good
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: odd - I find it very good with opensim
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: here on Wright Plaza
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: That sounds familiar, Neb. I only have 6500, but it stalles at around 2K or so, and then leaves me with the precarious impression that it never thinks its done.
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it loads 10 times faster for me with HTTP
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i remember that Diva
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: dunno about opensim but inventory was terrible in SL with http
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: she also had to force it to disable
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: inventory maybe
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: a linden told me to disable it
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: or it would never load
[11:34] Gennifer Eros: I would like to offer a suggestion if I may?
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: gennifer: sure
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: you may, but run like hell afterwards
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: or tp really fast and hope it works
[11:35] Gennifer Eros: An offer of landmarks to the various parties that happen here, so many people I have met have been saying that they never know where to go to meet people
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: only bad side with every 3.2 update. buttons
[11:35] VivK Lowlag: what's that got to do with opensim software?
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there is no easy answer to that Gennifer honestly
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: this is an osgrid meeting as well, so it's relevant
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: lol I dont know where to go to meet people either
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: ++
[11:36] Gennifer Eros: I know and it does not but it does help numbers here lol
[11:36] saera pfeffer: I go to osgrid meetings...
[11:36] saera pfeffer: lol
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: we need to get search + events working good
[11:36] Richardus Reinard: I like the way the did button organize in 3.2
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: cross-grid
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I think knowing what events are happening is realy important
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. I haven't noticed inventory loading issue as such with viewer 3 but I have 3.1.x in Linux. I have over 19000 items.
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but there are various things in the way of that right now
[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Gen, maybe that's something that could be handles by a user driven initiative. Admins could adopt it, but users could get it going and organized.
[11:36] Gennifer Eros: I agree
[11:36] Sarah Kline: they arrive at lbsa we sort them out and give them LMs
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: since we have HG, it would be good to have a subscription service to share them
[11:36] Gennifer Eros: Many srrive here though
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the biggest problem with that i find
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: HG seems pretty buggy atm
[11:37] Gennifer Eros: arrive*
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: is Time Zoens
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, time zones :)
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and the viewer never showing the proper time
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its so damn confusing
[11:37] Gennifer Eros: I set my viewer to UTC
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: that's just issues to work out, that's all
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: My viewer's time is the proper time. Always. Full stop. The rest of you just haven't realized it. :)
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya but thats not the default
[11:37] Sarah Kline: Key tries to do best with event board
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and not all viewers have a UTC option
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: could you just tell peopl to ignroe viewer time?
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: after all, they already ignore the currency stuff
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: easy to find places to meet. Look for a large group of green tods
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: no one reads anything
[11:38] Sarah Kline: lol
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: dots
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: no one ever reads anything :)
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:38] Spike Miles: XD
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Al ly9ou can do, really, is provide UTC and hope people actually use it.
[11:38] Gennifer Eros: Thats how I do it neb but newbies dont often know to do that
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: a good system should convert the time to whatever the user wants
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are certainly solutions, none of which are an easy answer at the moment
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: do green dots work prolperly? I thought they were kinda flakey
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they mostly work
[11:39] Gennifer Eros: They are
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: up to a point
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: I want telehubs too :D
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they start breaking around 200 avatars
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: THey are in the right place now.
[11:39] Gennifer Eros: Green dots dont always clear when an AV leaves a region
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: lots of times I see lots of avatars but no green dots
[11:39] Sarah Kline: they tend to linger too long afterwards )
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: pffff, 200 avatars :)
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: I haven't noticed gree dot problems for a while, myself.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they should mostly work
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt work for HG
[11:39] Sarah Kline: i think they do work
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hmm 3.2 dont have replace outfit :O
[11:40] Gennifer Eros: I have seen like 2 or 3 on a region, gone there and there is only 1 or none
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: what is the green dot mechanism? I presume it's not tied in to map tile generation?
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, there's an avatar url too
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: If green dots don't turn off when someone leaves it would think it means the update isn't sent when avatar logs out.
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ..
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: problem with green dots. your avatar seems to appear on neighborn regions sometimes as dot
[11:40] Gennifer Eros: Green dots indicate AV's justin, at least it's supposed to lol
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: you can point it to a web app to show the various avatars
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its a packet thats sent
[11:41] BlueWall SladeBlueWall Slade has viwer
[11:41] Gennifer Eros: I had someone with a phantom one that would follow her everywhere
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats just your own green dot
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:41] Gennifer Eros: Could only see it on the main map
[11:41] dan banner: lol ive had a few people thought they were being stalked
[11:41] Gennifer Eros: No it was not neb
[11:42] Gennifer Eros: I was with her and saw it
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... someone should make a green dot follower object :-)
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I dont see how it could not be their own green dot
[11:42] Gennifer Eros: There were just the 2 on the region but 3 dots on the map
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: if it moves everytime they move
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its them
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno abpout other viewers, but in imp your own dot is yellow.
[11:42] dan banner: its a green dot that shows yourself in addition to the yellow dot
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:42] Gennifer Eros: Yes it is
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: normally you are a gold/yellow dot
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can also show both sometimes
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, I've seen that happen
[11:42] Gennifer Eros: Ahhhh ok
[11:43] dan banner: ya its not a haunted region or anything like people think lol
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: rofl
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: SOmetimes it takes a few moments for the green dot to turn yellow
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: double click map teleprot = crash with 3.2
[11:43] dan banner: i think the last person i talked to used :devilish"
[11:43] Gennifer Eros: Well the one following her never turned yellow lol
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: and for soem reason i still see the wrong map in viewer 3
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I thnk its the green dots on the big map that I find inaccurate, the minimap dots seem ok
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, different mechanisms
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:44] Gennifer Eros: Generally yes dahlia
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: minimap and mainmap are not the same at all
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: the minimap ones are sent out every couple of seconds or so - the map ones are done differently
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: they should work off the same dataset.
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: minimap is viewerside only i think
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mainmap data comes from the simulator
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: minimap is a special packet sent from the sim
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: courseavatarupdate or something like that
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: CoarseLocationUpdate
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: maybe thats it
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: ok. sl3.2 teleports still break here
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: ya teleports have a bug
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: 3.2 isn't released by linden lab yet, right?
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: yes. its as beta
[11:46] Gennifer Eros: Any idea whats up with all the crashing recently?
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so not released
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: recently?
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: but if you install 3.0.3 the push you up if your not carefull
[11:46] Gennifer Eros: The last 2 days, today especially
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Ive been using 3.2 for a week or so
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i wasnt aware of any increased crashing activity lately
[11:46] dan banner: seems more stable to me lately
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: could be network issues on your side Gennifer
[11:46] Sarah Kline: nor me
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ive not gotten increasing reports of that anyway
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Bad TPs were a known problem with 3.2 viewers last I knew. It's a viewer thing.
[11:47] Gennifer Eros: I have crashed about 20 times today, my viewer just closes no error message or anything
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: sl3.2 open map. doble click to sim you want to teleport = crash. home = crash
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I find it's best to wait for viewer release a lot of the time before looking for opensim-related bugs
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i would not fully assume its 100% viewer related Marcus
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: stay with imp1.4b2 for now
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: it certainly does not fail as often in SL
[11:47] dan banner: probably video drivers or something genn
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: as it does on OpenSim
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: theres a teleport bug in opensim, one of the regions sends a teleport failed message even if the TP was ok
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: opensim its like 90% TP fail with V3
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its like 10% fail in SL
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: and sometimes causes viewer crashes or logouts
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting - I haven't had any issues
[11:47] Gennifer Eros: Should not be my motherboard is only a month old and I got the latest drivers for it then
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i have
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but it very well could be certain things
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: btut I don't do a huge amount of teleporting - and all that I've done is on a private installation
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: That teleport bug i see with imprudence to, many times a TP request fails and you need to ask for slutrls. (anyway betetr then LM)
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: one thing i noticed
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: in my OKC Tower
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: its an erroneous message sent by opensim
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot I had a very very old mesh
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: up at like 300m
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and everytime you tp'd there with V3 it was insta crash
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: once i erased it the crashing stopped
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hmm
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so some of it could be related to those old mesh's still floating around
[11:48] dan banner: yup it got me several times
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: 90% sounds a bit too high for that, though
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya i'll do some more testing
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: all i can say is i had a very difficult time teleporting with V3
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: The vast majority of regions I TP to are not mesh enabled.
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it almost never fails for me with Imprudence
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: for me it could be inventory
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i have a huge inventory
[11:49] dan banner: v3 has had reasonable tp's for me
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and it never seems to fully download
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: you never have exit problems with 3.2 ? i saw it in firestorm but now with 3.2 to exit keeps viewer hanging at end
[11:49] dan banner: not too many problems
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: could be part of my problem
[11:49] Gennifer Eros: I thought 7.2 was default mesh enabled
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it is Gennifer
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: as soon i press ctrl-alt-h i instant crash with 3.2
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: then don't do it :O)
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: try to TP hoem from wright
[11:50] Gennifer Eros: lol
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: 3.2 is just very fragile right now, from what I gather. LL is focusing a lot on it's new UI, and if other things break, that's for tomorrow.
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin.
[11:50] saera pfeffer: lol
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: well the UI is a big improvement already
[11:50] Gennifer Eros: I will stick with the imp viewer
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: yes. best for here. have more usefull things to.
[11:51] Gennifer Eros: Yep
[11:51] Sarah Kline: you stick with what you want to use
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya V3 will eventually improve
[11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: I would very much like to use 3.2 or a 3.2 based TPD regularly. But right now I stick to Imp unless I need 3.2 specific features.
[11:51] Unknown User: Second Life 3.2.2 (0) Nov 8 2011 18:55:12 (LindenDeveloper)
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you might try Exodus viewer
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i heard pretty good things about it
[11:51] dan banner: i started using a v1 with mesh and never looked back
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: it is useful to have people trying v3, but it's not worth looking at bugs until these viewers are out in the widl
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: burned once my fingers on that one. its haveing the sidebar.
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: once more of the TPV's are using it primarily
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I was running 3.1.0 and was just notified that it wants to download 3.2.0 for me.
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then things should start smoothing out more
[11:52] Unknown User: I was able to HG here with this one
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: switch to manual downloads inthe preferences
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, you can disable that option
[11:52] Unknown User: it has the updated webkit plugin too
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i'll test V3 later with a avatar with less inventory
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: hg is definitely not working well, mr unknown user
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i bet money my 25000 inventory items is a factor
[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: O Kokua, Kokua, wherefore art thou, Kokua?
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: crashed
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: neb. i only have 4500 (growing faster now)
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, I think kokua development is stalling
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: you cant really blame the TPV's for taking their time with all the UI changes coming from LL
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not encourageing lately, jcc, for sure.
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ah you crashed on TP BlueWall?
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: no, after a few minutes
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ah hmm
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have noticed its not always instant
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats what sorta leads me to beleive it may be inventory related
[11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: I a;lmost always *arrive* just fine in a 3.2 TP. But I crash immediately on arrival, or shortly thereafter.
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I have seen that behaviour a little bit. I too would suspect a stray packet more than anything else
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be interesting to know if there is any clue in the viewer log
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya it would not suprise me we are missing something that viewer wants
[11:54] Gennifer ErosGennifer Eros only has a little over 2000 inventory items :)
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: or a packet which has something missing that the viewer now crashes without
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and it doesnt react well when it doesnt get it
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have a problem with SL 3.x downloading latest viewer for me. Its not my main viewer program. Its useful for being in SL where there may be mesh objects
[11:55] dan banner: i run across mesh all the time here
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: for SL i have singularity 1.6 andrew
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: oh really?
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, I've seen the viewer crash shortly after arrival issue. Usual solution that I find is to clear viewer cache.
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think alot of people are playing with mesh here now
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: but its good to have orginal viewer to for comapre things
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: the symptom of the erroneous teleport failed message is you crash just after arrival, or are logged out, or you get a "teleport failed" dialog on your screen
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: here ?
[11:56] Gennifer Eros: Some even have mesh AV's
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I tell you the primary thing I use V3 for is not mesh
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its for lighting
[11:56] dan banner: theres at least a dozen regions that are all mesh that i know of
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: some viewers have special code to ignore it
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, singularity? YAV. I haven't seen that one mentioned before
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its amazing how horrible things made in Imprudence look in V3
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if your using lights
[11:56] Sarah Kline: lol yes
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: brights are like 500% brighter
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lights are*
[11:57] Sarah Kline: shadows on floor at lbsa in middle
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I hate brights. It can often wash out textures. Might look ok in one persons viewer/monitor but not on another persons.
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: dont want a sll mesh drama here. so hope it stays a bit longer away here. until a viewer works
[11:57] Kev Brinner: hello all
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no not texture full bright
[11:57] Sarah Kline: dan was being blinded by facelights this afternoon
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: im talking about feature lighting
[11:57] Gennifer Eros: Hello kev
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: omg they are soo bright in v3
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew glow is many times abused. a glow of 0.05 to 0.10 is most enpugh.
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: plus no more 8 light limit
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: you really gotta tone lighting down for v3
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: fauture lightning ?
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yes. Any more than that is too much most times.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i spent a whole day redoing Universal Campus
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya on the prim feature tab
[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not just lighting that;s different. Shiny is altogether different too. I'd say it's actually *correct* in V3.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Light option
[11:58] Sarah Kline: then somebody comes in with a face light and ruins it
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: well, when do wee get a good SL3 viewer for opensim ?
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: face lights are already bad in SL1
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: DisableFacelights = "true"
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya might have to turn that on
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: meh
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i have that dojne now marcus
[11:59] dan banner: i really like having mesh in a v1 UI
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: but there good facelights to that dont flood the floor and everything
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: If I could upload it in a V1 UI, I'd be happy. But just seeing em isn't sufficient.
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i balme people with old pc's and viewers at low quality. the screw things to high
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: blame ^
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I pretty much dont think we'll ever see Mesh upload in a true 1.x interface
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: at best someone might make V3 look exactly like v1
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: this V3 interface is pretty clean
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: which is really what they should be doing
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: I guess Firestorm now has a working opensource mesh upload? Have I seen that?
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: well the SL3.2 ui combined with imprudence could mamke a good mix
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: well the problem from my understanding
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: is the difference in licensing
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you can not port some things backwards from V3 to V1
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: the mesh upload code?
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. you have looked at 3.2 ?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: right
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: lunch time for me, bye all :)
[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Ahhhh...
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
[12:01] Sarah Kline: byes
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: even the open stuff they have in there
[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya, Dahlia
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: can not really legally be ported back to V1
[12:01] Gennifer Eros: Bye dahlia
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: 3.2 have again more normal buttons you can move also
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it would not be accepted as a TPV i suspect
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see ya dahlia
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: so ya
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: dont hold your breath on Mesh upload in V1
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you never know someone might go nuts and redo all of it for v1
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: but that seems sorta like a huge waste of time to me
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmmm
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: the lights and things are wayy better too
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: There's some pretty fanatical V1 devs out there. I wouldn't rule it out.
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: well i think V1 will die. now LL make SL3 more the feeling as V1
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: the web interfaces
[12:02] dan banner: i use sl to upload and astra to view
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: astra not nice to use beause the stars bug
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: Gennifer, that was a good idea about organizing the activities and getting the word out
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: What's it do to stars?
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: stars bug?
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i get that stars bug in almost all V2/V3
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its a hardware issue
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: square stars
[12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Ditto... all stars are blocks in V2/3 for me.
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: the square stars?
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: ahhh
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: No. in SL3 i have not seen it
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i only see it with astra
[12:04] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          559e6e5: 2011-11-06 20:43:49 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: the big square starts yes
[12:04] Sarah Kline: then dont use it
[12:04] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders about a viewer that crashes after the sun goes down and the stars come out :-:
[12:04] Sarah Kline: use the one you like
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its funny
[12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Block stars aren't a blocker for me, though. Heh.
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: saves having to battle the creepers
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: a long while ago i asked Lindens at Mesh meeting about the square stars
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and they had no idea what i was talking about
[12:04] Sarah Kline: oh i remember that
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Makes me feel all 8bit. :)
[12:05] Sarah Kline: lol
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: well sarah, then do me 70% imprudence and 30% SL3.2
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: mix that at low heat for 30 minutes
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: I did send them a screenshot
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and i might have even uploaded that to a jira
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember now
[12:05] Sarah Kline: they were wrong though you were right
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: I assume we're missing a texture server side is all.
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its nota texture
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: according to Lindens
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its procedural
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: hrm
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: there is a person that is working on moon phases
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: odd
[12:06] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks couldn't find the panda statues near Luna in SL. The land seems to have changed a little bit.
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: heheheh
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Moon phases isn't ambitious enough. Gimme a fully customizeable skydome, plz. >:)
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: heh
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