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[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome :)
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as many noticed, we haf no code changes during last week
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: had even
[11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The vacation continues I guess, I got almost nothing done either
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well rl things and such :(
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also no major bug reports
[11:36 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I'm still plugging away on Sharpview and trying to document exactly what happens as the viewer connects to a region. I have a state machine model now.
[11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Speakng of bugs, I found a yellow jacket nest in RL yesterday, only got stung once before getting away.
[11:37 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *gives Andrew's avatar some vitamin C
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: having losts of fun joe :)
[11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What is probably worth mentioning is that since last week Unity, who now own Vivox, have decided to jump off a cliff and nuke their entire reputation by making ridiculous pricing changes. How this will affect Vivox is unknown.
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There is a YT video of building foam aganst such nests Kayaker
[11:40 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, Unity owns Vivox. Did not know that. Ouch.
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it does for some years now joe :)
[11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Open source alternatives?
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: prices where abotu vivox or all their products?
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: still none joe
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we do have freeswich.. but not that good
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see all the OSL conferences the last 8 years for opensource alternatives
[11:42 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have two mantis tickets that discuss options and various projects that were started, but nothing concrete
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we had a old support for mumble
[11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK, so Mumble came and went. What was wrong?
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: IMA ppl working on a new implementation, but still not public
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mumble needs a replacement for the slvoice.exe
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: B)
[11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: IMA isn't doing anything, they never did
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and we did need to do it by hand bakc the
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: back then
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for many users that was confusing.. so.. wnet out of use
[11:44 AM PT] Joe Magarac: IMA?
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but is the only free solution that does 3d voice
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: same ppl doing the scengate viewer
[11:45 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well not exactly, there is Teaspeak
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: scenegate ( a variant of alchemy =
[11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem with all these open source alternatives is they throw in a lot of proprietary functionality to make it competitive and and something people find wirthwhile paying for
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and on multigrid environments we have the compatibility issue
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that too
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: vivox did provide a commun ground
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but well no longer free
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and did refuse to give me access to the dev portal when i told then it was for opensim
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Unity is in a massive row over payments these days anyway
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( tehre is nothing therr for opensim they told me )
[11:47 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ultimately likely that we need to build a new viewer plugin and server to connect it to and very likely that can't run in OpenSim directly either and probably should not
[11:47 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I am looking at Teaspeak, but I don't speak abstract c yet
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well unity needs to make $
[11:47 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Is there any need for the
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: what to say...
[11:47 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: server side to need to worry about the voice?
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: good they did gave us access for so many years for free
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: server needs to manage logins, cre3dencials, channels etc
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they never sent me any payment claim
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: like per parcel channels.. etc
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: group chat
[11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: For voice calls interconnecting between users handling things on region level would be a massive pain to implement, so likely it would be a per-grid thing and on that level
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do have voice on group lol
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't, but we would want to have
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well yeah
[11:49 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: I hear that the IMA guy working on voice got a replacement for slvoice.exe working in Windows, got discouraged when it didn't work with Linux or max clients.
[11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Going through the trouble of building a new thing might as well go for full support
[11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right, an open source alternative means running a voice server on a low-latency host.
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but personal and per parcel/region would be fine
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes joe there is also that extra cost for grids
[11:50 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Anybody here up on voice codecs in Linux? Mac?
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm there may also be the clones of HiFi audio
[11:50 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Huh.
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the name was hifi no? :)
[11:51 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: A lot of the Ham people are basing their voice stuff on Asterisk PBX and its codecs, etc. but I don't think there are any stereo or multi-channel codecs there
[11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: build a telegram client into the viewer and use their voice chat
[11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: High Fidelity pivoted to an audio product.
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess main codec now is opus
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on the free market
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( opus does no do 3d directly i think )
[11:52 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I think you have to accep that if you want open source, you have to run a voice server somewhere.
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc that it weas speex ?
[11:52 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we need to lobby the EU to force Apple to open iMessage and Facetime
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes joe that is a must
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think on muble there are still services you can rent
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now that the EU got USB-C and replaceable batteries sorted, they need a new challenge
[11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: That's useful.
[11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The serverside only needs to support channels and spatial audio, the bigger issue is the viewer plugin since that isn't open source
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and on other SIP based solutions freeswitch may use
[11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The new challenge for Apple is that the EU says they have to allow other app stores in under 6 months.
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I like that one
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc the most used viewers we have only support viviox
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I fully support it
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: snd the long outdated viviox 4x
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple babysitting everyone is getting old
[11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The interface in the viewer sends XML to and from the Vivox client, right?
[11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: So something that talks the same XML could be a drop in replacement.
[11:54 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_coding_formats
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it has own protocol joe.. and beening ll, possible xml ues
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there is a old public spec of that protocol joe
[11:55 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK.
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Anyway, looks like time to be thinking about moving away from Vivox, before Vixox moves away from us.
[11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for old SL https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Voice/Technical
[11:56 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, it already has for most of us
[11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I mean technically if you have an afternoon of time, wireshark and a working Vivox setup I don't think it would be that hard to document most of te protocol
[11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Encryption being the biggest pain point
[11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Why>
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well vivox moved away from version 4x long ago
[11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Legal problems?
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess only keeping servers for ll
[11:58 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Bye.
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus SLVoice.exe is a black box
[11:58 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not a big one though
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ain't that much in it, still annoying to break open though
[11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: big enough that nobody have reversed it
[12:00 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Didn't have a good enough reason or enough monetary incentives I guess
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Maybe Lisa Laxton (not sure if that is spelled right) can have a go at it
[12:00 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: RL calling, I must run
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ct Kayak
[12:01 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Lisa can barely tie her shoes
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well rl calls me
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other opensim issue?
[12:03 PM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: have a great week yall
[12:03 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: no new issues
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok see you all nex week if not before :)
[12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody tried MySQL 8.1 yet, right?
[12:04 PM PT] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all
[12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fell free to enjoy the openbar... all drinks are fresh ( as 3 years ago..)
[12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
