[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: it is
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: bam :)
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: I'm there
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: though I have not tested, i did get a white dot over my head
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, all.
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: should probably post a link to your google group comment
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I distracted myself last week and completely forgot the meeting.
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cvdhfkdv5tcmg7pbkcj3gtc20nc
[11:04] logger sewell: hi Andrew
[11:04] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hello
[11:04] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hi pathfinder
[11:04] Robert Adams: hello all
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert.
[11:04] logger sewell: hey Robert
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hi licu, robert
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: how is bullet going ?
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so is the load test plus voice today? Sorry, was on holiday yesterday
[11:05] Robert Adams: not sure I like how the new BulletSim allows one to walk up walls... needs more tuning
[11:05] Robert Adams: BulletSIm is doing great
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: does it?
[11:05] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hello everyone
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: walking up walls? Nice to be spiderman. :)
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: guess we are not new enough
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:05] vegaslon plutonian: easier to do then it used to be?
[11:05] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 533bbf0: 2013-05-25 02:08:54 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:06] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: Robert, the last update improved things like pendulums.
[11:06] Robert Adams: you can walk over most objects... like this sofa
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: wow ya you can
[11:06] logger sewell: we tested it and you can climb .8 stairs
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: could I ask who just made the pendulum comment?
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: This is one for whom I see Unknown UserUMMTGUN in the chat
[11:06] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: Fred
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I was working with Robert to test stair climbing and a recent change fixed that nicely.
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: .8 steps are hugh
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya even .5 is pretty large
[11:07] logger sewell: yeh and make sure to open a door or you'll walk right up it lol
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. I wouldn't use more than 0.5. My stairs are 0.25
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: teeah. so .8 is really not bad
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: thats a 1 1/2 foot step
[11:07] Robert Adams: not very realistic stairs... but SL allows walking over 0.5m
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: fred, was I here when you got here or were you here when I got here?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: personally though, i would prefer being able to walk over unusually large things
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: than not be able to walk over something tiny
[11:08] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: from Fred, I was here befire you Justin
[11:08] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: *before
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thakns fred
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: interesting
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i cant get out if i walk backwards
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, how is the center of gravity calculation? Still on the todo list or was it fixed? I haven't tested with a vehicle recently.
[11:09] Robert Adams: ya... you have to approach the step walking forward
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya its only walking forward
[11:09] Robert Adams: appoaching a step at an angle doesn't add the 'up'
[11:09] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: I have a question from someone using IAR, they report it does not, or appears not support Calling-cards (from Fred)
[11:10] Robert Adams: so walking backward won't allow walking up steps
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: not test it for a long time. is the problem fix that we could not walk good on prims from 3 sides. u think north where fine with 0.5 but others failed
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: doesn't support in what way?
[11:10] Robert Adams: Andrew... no, haven't fixed center-of-gravity
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: so no sword fights where you back up the stairs :-)
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: lol
[11:10] Teravus Ousley dot products your steps to compare it to ODE
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, ok, np.
[11:11] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: They do not appear in the inventory after restore (from Fred)
[11:11] Teravus Ousley is just being silly
[11:11] Robert Adams: hopefully, the directional stairs bug has been fixed
[11:11] Teravus Ousley: nerdy silly but silly none the less
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: okay, that's odd - they should do but I'm not sure I've extensively tested it
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in an IAR and it used creator ID from the previous grid where the IAR was saved instead of using the UUID for the person receiving the IAR
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps if they could raise a mantis (to the big pile :)
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: mesh stairs
[11:12] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @juctin, I will rquest more information, I thought they may not be supported.
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: on another toipc - is there anything on this region or in the jump regions that coul dhave been created by your current avatar?
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I believe they should work, but it's possible there are bugs or something has change din newer viewers regarding them
[11:12] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: No, but I do have a HUD
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: animation fail to on the stair here nebadon
[11:12] Robert Adams: oh... I know that the problem is here.... it thinks I'm way above the "bottom" of the step
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: hmm, that shouldnt' counter
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: count
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i made it so you can grab copies of these stairs
[11:13] Robert Adams: haa.... I've always tested with piles of prims
[11:13] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @justin, it has a radar script, that is all
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: thanks Nebadon
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: It shouldn't make any difference because I can't see HUDs, so my viewer should never request any informatio nrelating to them
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: though unless the creator info is somehow corrupt that shouldnt' matter.
[11:14] Robert Adams: works better on the lower steps
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Do other people see Fred's name properyl in chat?
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: I do
[11:14] Reborn.Soldier @hg.rebornsoldier.co.uk:9000: I do
[11:14] Vivian Klees: I do
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: i do
[11:14] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: I do
[11:14] tommy Arkright: Sir, Robert :-).... What is the issue with Bullet and "Cam View?" and what is the future looking like for flight?
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody see it as Unknown UserUMMTGUN?
[11:15] Robert Adams: I see 'Fred" as "Unknown UserUMMTGUN"
[11:15] logger sewell: yes looks fine to me
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @justin, it has a radar script, that is all
[11:15] Robert Adams: I'm using the latest Firestorm
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i see him fine here
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm using slightly earlier firestorm but really that shouldn't make a difference.....
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: you would see UMMTGUN if the viewer requests the name relating to a UUID and it hadn't been inserted in the cache simulator-side
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: but if Fred was here before me then that shouldn't be true
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: I noticed some issues with the name label looking at a firestorm user from singularity
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: esp. as I cleared my viewer cache immediately before logging on
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that is a different problem
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: muy radar dont show ANY unknown
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: though I can't be completely sure
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly right now the simulator has the correct uuid <-> name binding for fred
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: do we have a way to examine the UserManagement cache from the cl?
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: show name <uuid>
[11:17] Arielle Popstar: i onlly see Vivian as unknown
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: exactly what form of Unknown?
[11:18] Robert Adams: thanks Nebadon, I have copies of the stairs and will see what is exactly happening with this higher step mesh stairs
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: kk
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: in radar only
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: i see her name above her head
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: what is the full name?
[11:18] Cuteulala Artis is online.
[11:18] vegaslon plutonian: the issue with camera view on vehicles has something to do with sitting if I am correct and the fact that it is using the rotation of whatever prim you sat on
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: terrible slow Vivian Klees
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: So you don't see "Unknown ..."?
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: only in radar and i think in chat
[11:19] logger sewell: Hi Tiffany
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: Arielle: okay, one last time, what is the last name following unknown?
[11:20] tommy Arkright: Ahh, so it is more of a physics issue? As the UH60 flys great but hte root prim is center ?
[11:20] tommy Arkright: as compared the Cesna build.
[11:20] tommy Arkright: to the
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: oh sorry, Unknown User
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: vegaslon: This might be the issue where opensim doesn't sned correct sim prim informaion to the viewer
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: So just "Unknown User"? Not "Unknown User UMMTGUN" or similar?
[11:20] tommy Arkright: Is their a way around that for now?
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: no
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: just Unknown User
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: okay, that's probably a result of your viewer name cache then
[11:21] Robert Adams: the sit camera being wrong *sometimes* has been a bug for a long time
[11:21] Robert Adams: there must be a race condition with the viewer
[11:21] tommy Arkright: OK, I have our aircraft running great thats the only hickup.
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: Apart from doing all sitting on the root prim, I don't think so
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming this is the same issue
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: havent seen Vivian since about 5-6 viewer cache cleans ago
[11:21] tommy Arkright: Yes I have ht eroot under the aircraft, center and sit on that
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so this sounds like some other issue
[11:22] tommy Arkright: but the sit coord. are forward in the cock pit
[11:22] tommy Arkright: the
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: there is a bug Robert where if you sit on a child prim in a linkset the camera will be wrong
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: as robert says, maybe a race if it doesn't happen every time
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: Justin - I saw some of those in testing - I think they were from prim creator data added to the UserManagemnet's cache
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: only works properly on root prim
[11:22] Charmaine Andersson is online.
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: what do you mean?
[11:22] tommy Arkright: No its hard to set up, and changes often
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: some of those new tags
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: new tags?
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: the unknown user ones you added for debugging
[11:23] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 533bbf0: 2013-05-25 02:08:54 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: one of the issues is that this would show up if there qwere objects on the sim with the uuid as the creator but no creator data
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: UMMTGUN does look potentially like those export flags
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that melanie was working on
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: so anybody entering the sim would get "Unknown UserUMMAU"
[11:24] tommy Arkright: Justing if I have UMMTGUN in my friends list is that something?
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: I have had some name collisions I think
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: but not UMMTGUN
[11:24] tommy Arkright: Justing
[11:24] tommy Arkright: Justin
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: UMMTGUN happens if the name resolution completely failed
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: ohh,ok
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: this should be unrelated
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: UMMTGUN is an abbreviation which encompasses the class name and then the method name, in order to identifiy which "Unknown User" it is
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: what I'm seeing here is an unexpected resolution issue for myself with Fred where I have to think how it could have happened
[11:25] tommy Arkright: Ok, so back to the flight. I have a bunch of us kicking it up a few notches. we are running 100 sims, and have 4 nice aircraft built and flying pretty decent.
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: I see no unknowns today, labels or chat
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: I came after some and before others
[11:26] tommy Arkright: anyone who want to help let me know, the only issue that I am pullin gmy hair out with it the sit/cam issue.
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker: nice flying..
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: me either i see no unknowns
[11:26] tommy Arkright: Richardus yes, I can show you later what we have built\
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: only oddity i see is Robert Adams is a cloud
[11:26] tommy Arkright: it so much fun
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker: k
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: so what happens exactly?
[11:27] Robert Adams: Nebadon, Dahlia added the parsing code and BulletSim has been updated to use the mesh asset hull information for physical meshes
[11:27] tommy Arkright: I have the engine working different sounds, propellas, ect
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: tommy Arkright, have you tried setting the camera?
[11:27] Robert Adams: you can now do detailed physics mesh specification
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I saw those Robert, i updated Sisyphus, wright plaza is not updated yet though
[11:27] tommy Arkright: Bulletsim is not bad at all (Thank You ROBERT!!!)
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: follow-cam, etc.
[11:28] Robert Adams: I'll do a rebake and see if I uncloud
[11:28] tommy Arkright: The cesnas sit/cam seems to work fine.
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: is this sim using mic's appearance changes?
[11:28] tommy Arkright: its the UH60 thats the issue now
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: or sounds like the code is just a little too old?
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: generally if you sit on any prim that is not root prim
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: expect your camera to get whacked
[11:28] tommy Arkright: Nope sitting on root
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i hate that bug i hope it gets fixed
[11:29] tommy Arkright: Me to, Ill dance and buy dinner for who fixes it!!!
[11:29] Robert Adams: a bunch of avatars are fuzzy for me (baked textures not completely downloaded)... don't know what that's all about
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i see you now Robert
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i see everyone ok now
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: you should be able to set a camera to whatever position you want. Does that not work?
[11:30] tommy Arkright: Robert I have a special OsGrid/Bulletsim aircraft for you with marking :-)
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Does the AutoBackup feature mentioned in OpenSimDefaults.ini work?
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: no
[11:30] tommy Arkright: Does not stay.
[11:31] tommy Arkright: Makes me get grumpy.
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, bug or not implemented feature?
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: like a follow-cam?
[11:31] Robert Adams: Tiffany, Joe, Dahlia and Arielle are all wearing gray jumpsuits for me.... maybe I will try a relog
[11:31] tommy Arkright: Yes sir
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: probably bug. I'm no longer convinced that module should be in core
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: which viewer?
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: rebaking robert
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, ok. SOmeone was asking me about it. I didn't remember (or never new) there was such a feature.
[11:32] Robert Adams: cool, tommy
[11:32] tommy Arkright: Ok so, will this be fixed in future?
[11:32] Robert Adams: brb... relogging
[11:33] tx Oh: hello
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: Hi Unknown user TX :)
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: wb Robert
[11:34] tx Oh: unknown??? how comes, i logged directly to osgrid
[11:34] Robert Adams: that's better... no more jumpsuits
[11:34] Joe.Radik @joeradik.dyndns.org:9200: joe just rebaked textures
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: tx Oh isn't unknown for me
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: he is for me in chat
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: not name tag though
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: justin, I have a questiong about the SmartThreadPool
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewalL: go ahead
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: did you teleport here or login directly?
[11:36] Charmaine Andersson is offline.
[11:36] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: Teleport (from Fred)
[11:36] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @justing from OpenVCE9000
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: After it was updated, wehn I am stepping through code in dubug - it jumps randomly into the SmartThreadPool code...
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: ok - so from another grid?
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: Somehow it is wrecking the debugger.
[11:37] Robert Adams: justin... fred was unknown before and is still unknown after relog
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: Any ideas about that?
[11:37] tx Oh: /(is there a concurrent user test today?)
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: that's because you didn't clear your viewer cache
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: tx Oh, yes
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: that's odd - the SmartThreadPool.dll is built every time in the opensim build process
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: so the debug information should be fine
[11:38] tx Oh: \o/
[11:38] Teravus Ousley: https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cvdhfkdv5tcmg7pbkcj3gtc20nc
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: I will need to jump back (bisect) to see if that is exactly what is happening, but that is when I noticed it.
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: yes, the debugger should stay on track. It is very odd.
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: is OpenVCE9000 on your home grid or on osgrid?
[11:41] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @justin, OpenSim 9000 not my home, just a hop on the way here
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks fred
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: somehow my viewer must have asked for your uuid .> name before the teleport in process had cached it
[11:42] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: I@justin, part of AI Austin setup, think it is a standalone
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: but that *ought* to be impossible
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hum
[11:42] Teravus Ousley: ?
[11:43] Teravus Ousley: Mebbe leetle unknown >.>
[11:43] tx Oh: jcc: you are about to trigger the unknown bug?
[11:43] Cuteulala Artis is offline.
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I can't trigger but I saw it for myself today
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: with a clear viewr cache, which is the important part
[11:44] Teravus Ousley: bugs are hard to fix when you can't trigger them somehow
[11:44] tommy Arkright: Justin: * 8 Core AMD "Bull Dog" MaxPool Thread??? More than 45 max?
[11:44] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @justin, I can return or relog if that data would be useful
[11:45] tx Oh: but it sound like a serious hint: "somehow my viewer must have asked for your uuid .> name before the teleport in process had cached it"
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: thanks, though not right now
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it is a very good hint
[11:45] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: ok
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: now looking through source code trying to think through a scenario in which that could occur
[11:45] Teravus Ousley is making lunch
[11:46] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @justin, all sims I have visited are 7.6
[11:46] tx Oh had lentil soup
[11:47] Teravus Ousley has an egg + bacon sandwich on an English Muffin
[11:48] Yoshiko Fazuku has the strawberry tart with not so much rat in it...
[11:48] Teravus Ousley isn't sure what sort of food has rat in it
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: any more opensim issues today?
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Yoshiko needs better kitchen staff if they are putting any rat in strawberry tarts.
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem with groups in 075PF
[11:49] tommy Arkright: Justin: * 8 Core AMD "Bull Dog" MaxPool Thread??? More than 45 max?
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Cant pull up the list of group members or send notices in groups with lots of members.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Will everyone be attending todays load test?
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: probably but I have no guidance on how many you could have
[11:50] tx Oh: but how comes that the server can answer things before they are cached (if the information gets cached anyway) or who else answers the requsted uuid-name tokens
[11:50] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @ned /me
[11:50] tommy Arkright: OK, Hmmmmm Ill try 100
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: You might also want to try async_call_method = UnsafeQueueUserWorkItem
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if you are going to log in multiple avatars please rotate them through the 4 corners
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: windows or mono?
[11:50] tommy Arkright: windows
[11:50] tommy Arkright: 7 pro
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ie Avatar 1 : "Keynote 1" , Avatar 2 : "Keynote 2" etc..
[11:51] tommy Arkright: ahhh, maybe you can swing by and visit us.
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: in that case you should definitely try UnsafeQueue... though that does make the maxpool setting redundant
[11:51] tommy Arkright: OK
[11:51] tommy Arkright: cool
[11:51] tommy Arkright: I love you :-)
[11:51] tommy Arkright: LKOL
[11:51] tommy Arkright: LOL
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we will do some teleport testing too after everyone gets logged in over there and settled down, make sure you sit your avatar as soon as you arrive
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: pff :)
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: Justin CC is pretty cool :)
[11:51] Robert Adams: someone needs to take Justin shopping... the guy doesn't even have shoes
[11:52] tommy Arkright: LOL
[11:52] tommy Arkright: Vegaslon will get him shoes
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm the barefoot avatar
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps he prefer to go barefoot like someone else I know.
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: still not running on UnsafeQueue, not know the bennefits with it
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: how many avi accounts you shooting for
[11:52] tx Oh: shoes are overrated if you can fly and tp
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: On windows it seems better
[11:52] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: do we need shoes?
[11:52] Unknown UserUMMTGUN: @neb, is this a HG access?
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: and maybe even on mono 2.10 and later, though that needs testing really
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yes Fred
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I need shoes. Just havent looked for any
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the address is cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1
[11:53] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000 has lost more shoes while HG jumping than he cares to remember...
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: etc.. etc..
[11:53] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: ah robert, if you take your shoes off you will see your feet underground with bulletsim
[11:53] Robert Adams: no shoes, no shirt, no rezzing :)
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: lol
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Licu, that was recently fixed.
[11:53] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: ah good
[11:53] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: :)
[11:53] Teravus Ousley spots 6 avatars with no shooz
[11:53] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: Neb, do you want us to jump now?
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: mesh shoes maybe?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: well as soon as we are done here Pathfinder
[11:54] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: roger, thanks
[11:54] Robert Adams: I've noticed that, Licu.... standing on prims is different than standing on terrain (oddness)
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its ready to go though
[11:55] Robert Adams: just haven't figured out all the oddities in computing the avatar height (between physics, the simulator and the viewer)
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: i want to coem , but need HG adress
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I notice in "show names" there are quite a few bindings which probably ciome from objects with no creator data
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I'll log in two users and leave them there b ut I have to go out in RL after that.
[11:55] tx Oh: hop://cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3/44/44/44 or cc.opensimulator.org (44,44,44)
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: HG Address is : "cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1"
[11:55] Teravus Ousley notes that the viewer actually provides an avatar height in current UDP protocol so there isn't much need to calculate what it should be anymore... >.>
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to remember how to get to the location
[11:56] tx Oh: cc.opensimulator.org (44,44,44)
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: "cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2"
[11:56] tx Oh: cc.opensimulator.org (44,44,44)
[11:56] Teravus Ousley: unless we want to second guess it :)
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: you can teleport directly from here, just put the URL i pasted above into the map search
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: "cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1"
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: udp fallback switch working now?
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Last time I tried TP from here it failed. I had to go to a jump region
[11:57] tx Oh: or just click this one: cc.opensimulator.org (44,44,44)
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i moved it since then Andrew
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its now centered around 7250,7250
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i already have 20 avatars logged in there :)
[11:57] Yoshiko Fazuku: i want to ask if anyone is working on eather replicteing or porting var region size support from aurora to opensim
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Yoshiko, no, people have talked about it, but no one is doing it
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there are some issues that would need to be figured out
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks thinks it would be a lot of work.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: like how to handle that in grid mode
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: that doesnt work with all viewers does it?
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: lot do now
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: thats a good other problem dahlia
[11:59] Teravus Ousley: Not every viewer.. but several do support it now
[11:59] Robert Adams: only a few, Dahlia... Firestorm is one
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: the main ones tht are used do
[11:59] Yoshiko Fazuku: and would it be it mostly works on the few veriwers that support opensim mainly due to the aurorasim peeps wanting it
[11:59] Robert Adams: I think that might be easier to do vs making region crossing smooth
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: yeah, problem thats V3 viewer. and LL still have not fixt that bug
[12:00] Yoshiko Fazuku: and megaregions are such a bloody hack
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ok I think if you are all ready we can start jumping over
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi whispers: :)
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: megaregions are just var regions in 256m chunks!
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: hehe
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: heh, a bloody hack.. that works in all viewers.. and is encompassed in a region module :)
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: megaregions are a bloody cool hack :)
[12:01] Teravus Ousley disclaims that he wrote megaregions...
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: if megas got as much loving as vari will need they wouldnt be a hack
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: if megas had explicit viewer support they would work better
[12:01] tommy Arkright: Maga good for flying
[12:01] tommy Arkright: we need it
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok I am jumping over to the test
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see you all there :)
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: well its mega or vari. because normals have bad simnborder crosisng. if you can cross it
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets
[10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF.
[11:00] logger sewell: hey all
[11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew?
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall
[11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi
[11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes.
[11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin)
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch.
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that.
[11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent
[11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods
[11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also
[11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed
[11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :))
[11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker
[11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone!
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ?
[11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux.
[11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me.
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse
[11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed?
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll?
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^
[11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P
[11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :)
[11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken
[11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git?
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries.
[11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent
[11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed
[11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc?
[11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change
[11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib?
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion.
[11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think)
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones?
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ?
[11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O
[11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you.
[11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround
[11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia
[11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :)
[11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars?
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed.
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably
[11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot
[11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable?
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3
[11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic.
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic?
[11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass)
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;)
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP
[11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D
[11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :)
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though.
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though
[11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files?
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties?
[11:18] Robert Adams: excellent
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:"
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything
[11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug
[11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink*
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird..
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint*
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it.
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too
[11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ??
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called?
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene
[11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level?
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level
[11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework
[11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward
[11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this?
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :)
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters?
[11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator.
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map
[11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released
[11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :)
[11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first
[11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized
[11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes.
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think
[11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think
[11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods?
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now?
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :)
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references?
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work
[11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around.
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references?
[11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody?
[11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash
[11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash*
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon.
[11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan?
[11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :)
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think
[11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :)
[11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st
[11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8
[11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you
[11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now?
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase"
[11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ?
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase
[11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects
[11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there?
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory
[11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3)
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing?
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash?
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory.
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from?
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour"
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash.
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase"
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner'
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar?
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon
[11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times
[11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done
[11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode?
[11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far
[11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made"
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization?
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-)
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :)
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :)
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH?
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin
[12:01] Robert Adams: bye all
[12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese
[12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder
[12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin!
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that
[12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro
