Chat log from the meeting on 2021-07-13

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[11:02] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:03] Gavin.Hird It is a blazing hot summer evening at 19 C here
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that a typo? 19C is not blazing hot.
[11:04] Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:04] Gavin.Hird here it is
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: :)  Today the temperature is going to go up to 29C with humidex of 35C.
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hehe. In San Francisco it is called a hot day if you can see the sun.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:05] Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:05] Jamie.Jordan Hey everybody
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie
[11:06] Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:06] Gavin.Hird Hi Selby
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Selby.
[11:07] Jamie.Jordan Hi Selby
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hi Selby!
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Where is Ubit? Anyone know if he is coming?
[11:07] Gavin.Hird not logged on as far as I can see
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Don't know. I dropped a reminder message in to the IRC channel about the meeting.
[11:09] Gavin.Hird he has not committed anything since last week
[11:09] Gavin.Hird so...
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: No news is good news??  ;)
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: No new bugs!
[11:09] Gavin.Hird well, it is summer
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantis about animesh. Ubit told me it is documented behavior.
[11:10] Gavin.Hird did you subit an SL JIRA on it?
[11:10] Gavin.Hird submit*
[11:11] Gavin.Hird I aussume documented behvior is SL documented behavior
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I tested it in SL and it worked fine the way I expected it to. You can stop an animation by name even if it is not in inventory.
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: The Wiki says it must be in inventory, so Ubit implimented it the way the Wiki states.
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: How do you get an animation stuck running not in inventory? By testing and uploading animations over and over again and forgetting (JST ONCE) to stop it before deleting it.
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think you should be able to stop an animation as long as you own the object that is animated.
[11:13] Gavin.Hird What viewer did you test in?
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: FS 6.4.13 and 6.4.20
[11:14] Gavin.Hird OK, but FS behavior is not necessarily SL dcoumented behaior
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Like Ubit says, everything works the way the Wiki says.
[11:14] Gavin.Hird sou you need to test with the official Sl viewer
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I'm making an airplane with all the control surfaces animated with animesh. Eventually I'll stop changing the animations, and I won't have trouble with them getting stuck any more.
[11:18] Gavin.Hird As I said, it needs to be tested in the official SL viewer in SL to verify correct animesh behavior
[11:19] Gavin.Hird I would also file a SL JIRA if the outcome in SL is not as you desire/require
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Well, FS works better than the Wiki documentation in SL, so the only thing that test might tell me is that the official SL viewer does not work better than the Wiki. And I don't care what works or doesn't in SL.
[11:20] Gavin.Hird OK, but FS behavior is not what we code for
[11:20] Gavin.Hird and particularly not on animesh
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: OK, assuming the official viewer also works better than the Wiki, will Ubit change the code to violate what the Wiki says?
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: I think not.
[11:22] Gavin.Hird code and wiki are not always in sync unfortunately
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: So true.
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit.
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Speak of the Devil!
[11:23] Gavin.Hird Hi Ubi
[11:23] Gavin.Hird Ubit*
[11:24] Selby.Evans hi Ubit
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: plz go on your talk
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, just talking about not being able to stop an animation if it isn't in inventory but that it is documented behaviour (in the wiki).
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: I was explaining that I was resigned to it working the way it is. osClearObjectAnimations() is a big help.
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: And after I'm done debugging my animations, I don't get them stuck any more.
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: yeah obeject animations must ne on object inventories
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: object ones also ;)
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: There is a spinning turbine outside that is an animated animesh that is not a mesh body!
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: not this is a spec restriction, not sure why
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: oops that not is wrong. it is..
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Copyable if anyone wants to learn animesh, although come see me for the DAE to learn more about the rigging.
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: ty
[11:28] Gavin.Hird protecting content creators and not ruining experiences is my guess
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: If the animation must be in object inventory that seems to mean a script couldn't properly reference animations by UUID.
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Animations in avatars have never been allowed to start by UUID.
[11:29] Gavin.Hird griefing vector
[11:29] Grid: Delivery of free object succeeded
Object Name: Turbine
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: start must be by nam
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: name
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but stop can be by uuid, still if in prim inv
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, The news today was no news as there has been no commits seen in git log.
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: actuall fs new cache changes did kill llstatanimtion
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: yeah no commits
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: Meanwhile Beq did fix it
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: thing is that the Builtin animations do not need to be on object inventoty
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: wlel we may have that broken also
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeah we do
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: no suport for builtin animations
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a question about Firestorm.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: in fact sl wiki is also confusion
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: says
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: string    anim    –    an item in the inventory of the prim this script is in or built-in animation
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: then..
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: If anim is missing from the prim's inventory then an error is shouted on DEBUG_CHANNEL.
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: duhh
[11:41] Gavin.Hird remember SL has not deployed the new cache code yet
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeha but this is unrelated
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: on or code the animation also must be always present on the prim
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ie no checks fo the so called "Builtin"
[11:43] Gavin.Hird I guess the Builtin is just assumed to be available
[11:43] Gavin.Hird probably some of the oldest code in the viewer
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: nopes.. script engine will just error out
[11:44] Gavin.Hird and since it is built in, no need to check for presence
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: grrr
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: server code CHECKS for presence
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: that is the issue
[11:44] Gavin.Hird oru server code check for presence?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ofc
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: viewer does not
[11:45] Gavin.Hird no
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: well old bug
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: that now is confusing with ll removing "builtin" things
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: on the object ones, they forgot all abotu that
[11:47] Gavin.Hird ok, but in the official release viewer it has not been removed
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: guess they will
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: no idea what they are doing
[11:48] Gavin.Hird well, there is no work being done on the cache code at the moment
[11:48] Gavin.Hird because it is burning all around them elsewhere
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: possible they founf that new simple cache is slower than older
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: fs team seems to believe it is fast
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: faster..
[11:49] Gavin.Hird yeah IDK - could even be an issue with cache coherency depending on how updates are propageted in the CDN and AWS simulators
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: wlel with Beq changes that is again irrelevant
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.4.21 does ship again with the assets
[11:50] Gavin.Hird ok
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: or will when released :)
[11:50] Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: but we stiil have this old issue
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: all animations must be on the prim
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: since we do not provide any inventory link to the builtin ones..  FAIL::
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: odd think
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: why no reports ?
[11:53] Gavin.Hird have you tried in an animesh accessing a built in animation by name?
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: im not talking about oject ones..
[11:54] Gavin.Hird because I would believe the viewer will resolve the name as it should be in "base" inventory
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but about the avatar oones
[11:55] Gavin.Hird avatar ones?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: sever does not send names to fiver
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: yes llStartAnimation
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that only sends uuids to viewer
[11:56] Gavin.Hird and you say that llStartAnimation cannot use the viewer built in animations?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:57] Gavin.Hird ok...
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: server does not see them on prim, so refuces
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: no one ever did add code do handle the buildin
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: stange thing..
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: strange..
[11:58] Gavin.Hird on prims?
[11:58] Gavin.Hird as in attached prims or as in animesh?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: oops code does find some
[11:59] Gavin.Hird I guess HUDS prims should be included in that question
[12:00] Gavin.Hird because I am pretty sure I have seen or even had HUDs that use the built in to animate the avatar
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: yeah i missed some twisted code we have on that
[12:00] Gavin.Hird ok
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: and using a folder that is not even standard
[12:01] Gavin.Hird could be true
[12:02] Gavin.Hird FT_ROOT_INVENTOR = 8
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: DefaultAnimationsPath = "data/avataranimations.xml";
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: this file has the defines
[12:03] Gavin.Hird ok
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so.. oops guess it works. for avatars
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: just a bit confusing code
[12:04] Gavin.Hird I though the "invisible" inventory was loaded inot ROOT_INVENTORY at viewer initialization
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well and that file is outdated
[12:04] Gavin.Hird where the built in animas are invisible[12:02] Gavin.Hird FT_ROOT_INVENTOR = 8
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: DefaultAnimationsPath = "data/avataranimations.xml";
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: this file has the defines
[12:03] Gavin.Hird ok
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so.. oops guess it works. for avatars
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: just a bit confusing code
[12:04] Gavin.Hird I though the "invisible" inventory was loaded inot ROOT_INVENTORY at viewer initialization
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well and that file is outdated
[12:04] Gavin.Hird where the built in animas are invisible
[12:05] Gavin.Hird I bet it is :-)
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: We have just passed the 1 hour mark. Any last minute comments or questions before we wrap up todays meeting?
[12:06] Gavin.Hird just a short comment to viewer development is that LL has started converting the build system for python 3
[12:06] Kayaker Magic: I've got a contractor to talk to in RL, gota run.
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The build system uses Python?
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. tc.
[12:07] Gavin.Hird autobuild is written in python 2
[12:07] Gavin.Hird plus there  are a bunch of helper scripts for the build
[12:07] Gavin.Hird and also the SL updater
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I never looked at the viewer build system that closely. It always just seemed a bit odd to me whatever it was doing.
[12:08] Gavin.Hird so the updated will be interesting for them with phyton 2 and phyton 3 coexistence on Windows and macOS
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:08] Gavin.Hird so the updated will be interesting for them with phyton 2 and phyton 3 coexistence on Windows and macOS
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:09] Gavin.Hird I am not sure what Win 11 will support
[12:09] Gavin.Hird python 2 is removed from the macOS version that will release this fall
[12:10] Gavin.Hird Linux is pretty much python 3 too
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: There are still some parts of it that use Python 2 but it has pretty much going to 3 for new things.
[12:10] Gavin.Hird right
[12:11] Gavin.Hird with macOS 12 you have to install it separate, but you can't ask a user to do that to run the viewer
[12:11] Gavin.Hird guess the same with Win 11
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is about time to wrap up todays meeting. My cat is wanting my attention. :)
[12:12] Selby.Evans must go   bye - all
[12:12] Gavin.Hird anyways :-)
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bye Selby.
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: cya
[12:12] Gavin.Hird cat
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you for coming. See you all again next week.
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