Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-27
From OpenSimulator
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[11:01] Teravus Ousley: new people seem to be less gray to me | [11:01] Teravus Ousley: new people seem to be less gray to me | ||
[11:01] Neas Bade: yes, agreed | [11:01] Neas Bade: yes, agreed | ||
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[11:01] Kurt Stringer: Heoo all | [11:01] Kurt Stringer: Heoo all | ||
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[11:02] Kurt Stringer: lol | [11:02] Kurt Stringer: lol | ||
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[11:02] Teravus Ousley: Hai Kurt | [11:02] Teravus Ousley: Hai Kurt | ||
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[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hey kurt | [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hey kurt | ||
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[11:02] Kurt Stringer: hello all | [11:02] Kurt Stringer: hello all | ||
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[11:02] Neas Bade: hey | [11:02] Neas Bade: hey | ||
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[11:02] Adam Frisby: lo | [11:02] Adam Frisby: lo | ||
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[11:04] Teravus Ousley: 0x0 textures.. asset server is definately hosed | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: 0x0 textures.. asset server is definately hosed | ||
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[11:04] Teravus Ousley: . | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: . | ||
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[11:04] Adam Frisby: Woot | [11:04] Adam Frisby: Woot | ||
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[11:04] Adam Frisby: Just like the main grid. :D | [11:04] Adam Frisby: Just like the main grid. :D | ||
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[11:05] Neas Bade: yeh, we need to get this off of the grid asset server, which is just very broken right now | [11:05] Neas Bade: yeh, we need to get this off of the grid asset server, which is just very broken right now | ||
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[11:06] Adam Frisby: Or add in a bit of intelligent caching | [11:06] Adam Frisby: Or add in a bit of intelligent caching | ||
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[11:06] Adam Frisby: a sim should have a copy of every texture in prims in it | [11:06] Adam Frisby: a sim should have a copy of every texture in prims in it | ||
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[11:06] Adam Frisby: err on prims | [11:06] Adam Frisby: err on prims | ||
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[11:06] Adam Frisby: ditto for common assets, eg the moon / sun, etc. | [11:06] Adam Frisby: ditto for common assets, eg the moon / sun, etc. | ||
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[11:09] More Wright: is no one talking, or can I just not hear anything? | [11:09] More Wright: is no one talking, or can I just not hear anything? | ||
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[11:09] Teravus Ousley: no one is talking | [11:09] Teravus Ousley: no one is talking | ||
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[11:09] Teravus Ousley: we're all changing our appearance :P | [11:09] Teravus Ousley: we're all changing our appearance :P | ||
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[11:09] Adam Johnson: We are telling secrets about you ;) | [11:09] Adam Johnson: We are telling secrets about you ;) | ||
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[11:09] Teravus Ousley: . | [11:09] Teravus Ousley: . | ||
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[11:09] Adam Frisby: Heh | [11:09] Adam Frisby: Heh | ||
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[11:09] Neas Bade: :) | [11:09] Neas Bade: :) | ||
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[11:09] More Wright: ahh cool | [11:09] More Wright: ahh cool | ||
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[11:10] Adam Frisby: All secrets about me, like how I'm going to completely stack myself on the slopes in Japan this weekend, courtesy of Adam. | [11:10] Adam Frisby: All secrets about me, like how I'm going to completely stack myself on the slopes in Japan this weekend, courtesy of Adam. | ||
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[11:10] Adam Frisby: hehe | [11:10] Adam Frisby: hehe | ||
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[11:10] More Wright: you two going sking? | [11:10] More Wright: you two going sking? | ||
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[11:10] Adam Frisby: Yeah | [11:10] Adam Frisby: Yeah | ||
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[11:10] More Wright: and the rest of us wasn't invited? | [11:10] More Wright: and the rest of us wasn't invited? | ||
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[11:10] Adam Johnson: yeah, gonna hopefully not break my neck. ;) | [11:10] Adam Johnson: yeah, gonna hopefully not break my neck. ;) | ||
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[11:11] Adam Johnson: You are all welcome anytime. :P | [11:11] Adam Johnson: You are all welcome anytime. :P | ||
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[11:11] Adam Frisby: Well, if your in Japan. hehe. | [11:11] Adam Frisby: Well, if your in Japan. hehe. | ||
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[11:11] Adam Johnson: Indeed. haha | [11:11] Adam Johnson: Indeed. haha | ||
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[11:12] Adam Frisby: Anyway | [11:12] Adam Frisby: Anyway | ||
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[11:12] Adam Frisby: Agenda? | [11:12] Adam Frisby: Agenda? | ||
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[11:12] Neas Bade: I had some proposals on the list | [11:12] Neas Bade: I had some proposals on the list | ||
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[11:12] Neas Bade: given that Adam J is here, I'd suggest we start with the packet overhead findings the 3Di team found | [11:12] Neas Bade: given that Adam J is here, I'd suggest we start with the packet overhead findings the 3Di team found | ||
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[11:13] Neas Bade: I think that would be very interesting | [11:13] Neas Bade: I think that would be very interesting | ||
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[11:13] Adam Johnson: Heh, sure. | [11:13] Adam Johnson: Heh, sure. | ||
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[11:13] Teravus Ousley: very reasonable | [11:13] Teravus Ousley: very reasonable | ||
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[11:13] Adam Johnson: Though it is opening a fun topic involving libsl. | [11:13] Adam Johnson: Though it is opening a fun topic involving libsl. | ||
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[11:13] Neas Bade: opening fun topics is always allowed :) | [11:13] Neas Bade: opening fun topics is always allowed :) | ||
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[11:13] Adam Johnson: Well, do we push on with .3 of libsl, or completely do away with it? | [11:13] Adam Johnson: Well, do we push on with .3 of libsl, or completely do away with it? | ||
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[11:14] Adam Frisby: I had a chat with Adam earlier this evening about that latter option -- having classes of each packets may be a very inefficient way of handling things. | [11:14] Adam Frisby: I had a chat with Adam earlier this evening about that latter option -- having classes of each packets may be a very inefficient way of handling things. | ||
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[11:14] Adam Frisby: It might be better to have a: byte[] buildXYZPacket(A, B, C, D); function for every packet. | [11:14] Adam Frisby: It might be better to have a: byte[] buildXYZPacket(A, B, C, D); function for every packet. | ||
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[11:15] Teravus Ousley: shh, nobody type.. .. my boss is looking over my shoulder.. j/k | [11:15] Teravus Ousley: shh, nobody type.. .. my boss is looking over my shoulder.. j/k | ||
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[11:16] Adam Frisby: Hehe | [11:16] Adam Frisby: Hehe | ||
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[11:16] Adam Johnson: So, I guess the big question on 3DI's end would be, how much work will each option involve. | [11:16] Adam Johnson: So, I guess the big question on 3DI's end would be, how much work will each option involve. | ||
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[11:16] Neas Bade: right | [11:16] Neas Bade: right | ||
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[11:17] Neas Bade: I think the issue that was hit with a previous attempt at 0.3 update was a bunch of fields got marked private that busted opensim | [11:17] Neas Bade: I think the issue that was hit with a previous attempt at 0.3 update was a bunch of fields got marked private that busted opensim | ||
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[11:17] Adam Frisby: 90% of libsls codebase is generated procedurally by another application, we should be able to modify that to produce the buildPacket equivilents pretty easily. | [11:17] Adam Frisby: 90% of libsls codebase is generated procedurally by another application, we should be able to modify that to produce the buildPacket equivilents pretty easily. | ||
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[11:18] Adam Frisby: But, there is extra stuff which we use like their layerdata encoder/decoders. | [11:18] Adam Frisby: But, there is extra stuff which we use like their layerdata encoder/decoders. | ||
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[11:18] Teravus Ousley: They also have 'all' of their packets in one CS file.. _packets.cs | [11:18] Teravus Ousley: They also have 'all' of their packets in one CS file.. _packets.cs | ||
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[11:18] More Wright: that is what is built precedurally | [11:18] More Wright: that is what is built precedurally | ||
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[11:18] Adam Johnson: and the openjpeg bits as well. | [11:18] Adam Johnson: and the openjpeg bits as well. | ||
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[11:19] Adam Frisby: True, although I made the suggestion to p0pe about moving their OpenJpeg to a seperate project called OpenJpeg.net or something | [11:19] Adam Frisby: True, although I made the suggestion to p0pe about moving their OpenJpeg to a seperate project called OpenJpeg.net or something | ||
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[11:19] More Wright: they as far as I know have a application that takes the message_template file and produces the _packet.cs file from it | [11:19] More Wright: they as far as I know have a application that takes the message_template file and produces the _packet.cs file from it | ||
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[11:19] Adam Frisby: since there's more than just libsl using that now | [11:19] Adam Frisby: since there's more than just libsl using that now | ||
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[11:19] Adam Johnson: True | [11:19] Adam Johnson: True | ||
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[11:20] Adam Frisby: Hrrm | [11:20] Adam Frisby: Hrrm | ||
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[11:20] Teravus Ousley: odd, does the message template have enough information to do that? | [11:20] Teravus Ousley: odd, does the message template have enough information to do that? | ||
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[11:20] Adam Frisby: These performance issues -- they should be hitting libsl too right? | [11:20] Adam Frisby: These performance issues -- they should be hitting libsl too right? | ||
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[11:20] Adam Frisby: Tervaus: yes. | [11:20] Adam Frisby: Tervaus: yes. | ||
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[11:20] Adam Johnson: They are actually.. | [11:20] Adam Johnson: They are actually.. | ||
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[11:20] Adam Frisby: libsl might appreciate switching to buildPacket equivilents internally if we can demonstrate a big performance increase. | [11:20] Adam Frisby: libsl might appreciate switching to buildPacket equivilents internally if we can demonstrate a big performance increase. | ||
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[11:20] Teravus Ousley wonders what message template they are looking at :P | [11:20] Teravus Ousley wonders what message template they are looking at :P | ||
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[11:20] Adam Johnson: I notice these spikes on login/teleports in MovableLife | [11:20] Adam Johnson: I notice these spikes on login/teleports in MovableLife | ||
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[11:21] More Wright: Tervaus, the one included with the SL client | [11:21] More Wright: Tervaus, the one included with the SL client | ||
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[11:21] Adam Frisby: msg_template.msg | [11:21] Adam Frisby: msg_template.msg | ||
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[11:21] Adam Frisby: Open it in notepad | [11:21] Adam Frisby: Open it in notepad | ||
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[11:21] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. I did.. but it didn't seem to have enough info specifically on packet payloads. | [11:21] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. I did.. but it didn't seem to have enough info specifically on packet payloads. | ||
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[11:21] Teravus Ousley shrugs.. | [11:21] Teravus Ousley shrugs.. | ||
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[11:21] Teravus Ousley: maybe they figured out something.. | [11:21] Teravus Ousley: maybe they figured out something.. | ||
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[11:22] Adam Frisby: We dont use anything more complex than msg_template in opensim itself | [11:22] Adam Frisby: We dont use anything more complex than msg_template in opensim itself | ||
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[11:22] Teravus Ousley: anyway.. different topic.. back to performance | [11:22] Teravus Ousley: anyway.. different topic.. back to performance | ||
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[11:22] Adam Frisby: we have to figure out the payloads too | [11:22] Adam Frisby: we have to figure out the payloads too | ||
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[11:23] Adam Johnson: Indeed. | [11:23] Adam Johnson: Indeed. | ||
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[11:23] Teravus Ousley: so the main bog is not dealing with them as byte arrays the majority of the time? | [11:23] Teravus Ousley: so the main bog is not dealing with them as byte arrays the majority of the time? | ||
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[11:25] Adam Johnson: The main bog is coming from GC, because we keep creating new packets and never reuse them. | [11:25] Adam Johnson: The main bog is coming from GC, because we keep creating new packets and never reuse them. | ||
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[11:25] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. | [11:25] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. | ||
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[11:25] Adam Frisby: Create a circular list of each packet type for re-use. Mark as "in use" / "not in use"? | [11:25] Adam Frisby: Create a circular list of each packet type for re-use. Mark as "in use" / "not in use"? | ||
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[11:25] Adam Johnson: On login the number of packets created is pretty huge.. and if you check out heapbuddy, you can see that the GC is pretty intense at that point. | [11:25] Adam Johnson: On login the number of packets created is pretty huge.. and if you check out heapbuddy, you can see that the GC is pretty intense at that point. | ||
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[11:25] Adam Frisby: after it's been sent, reset the use flag | [11:25] Adam Frisby: after it's been sent, reset the use flag | ||
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[11:25] Teravus Ousley: Adam beat me to it :P | [11:25] Teravus Ousley: Adam beat me to it :P | ||
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[11:26] Adam Frisby: Question: did you guys find any other performance issues while you were profiling? | [11:26] Adam Frisby: Question: did you guys find any other performance issues while you were profiling? | ||
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[11:27] Adam Johnson: So far, that was the only one that we have found.. but I think we need to do some more analyzing. | [11:27] Adam Johnson: So far, that was the only one that we have found.. but I think we need to do some more analyzing. | ||
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[11:27] Adam Johnson: and, it would be good to have a custom profiler created... | [11:27] Adam Johnson: and, it would be good to have a custom profiler created... | ||
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[11:27] Adam Frisby: I've got one I've got semi-completed, the catch is it's windows-only since it relies on WMI to get profiling information. | [11:27] Adam Frisby: I've got one I've got semi-completed, the catch is it's windows-only since it relies on WMI to get profiling information. | ||
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[11:27] Adam Johnson: That would still be of use to us I think. | [11:27] Adam Johnson: That would still be of use to us I think. | ||
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[11:28] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll send you guys a copy -- it's designed for grid information mainly. | [11:28] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll send you guys a copy -- it's designed for grid information mainly. | ||
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[11:28] Adam Frisby: health / status / etc. | [11:28] Adam Frisby: health / status / etc. | ||
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[11:28] Adam Johnson: Okay great, we have been mainly dealing with sandbox, but will be doing some grid tests shortly. | [11:28] Adam Johnson: Okay great, we have been mainly dealing with sandbox, but will be doing some grid tests shortly. | ||
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[11:30] Adam Frisby: Alright, well - seems like we should look at re-using rather than disposing of packets | [11:30] Adam Frisby: Alright, well - seems like we should look at re-using rather than disposing of packets | ||
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[11:30] Adam Frisby: MW: This is probably something you have the most experience with, how long do you think it will take? | [11:30] Adam Frisby: MW: This is probably something you have the most experience with, how long do you think it will take? | ||
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[11:30] Adam Johnson: Yep, I think it will fix a lot of the login cap problems | [11:30] Adam Johnson: Yep, I think it will fix a lot of the login cap problems | ||
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[11:31] Neas Bade: it would be good to get some statistic counts on packet types being used. Teravus, does the throttling code keep track of that at the moment? | [11:31] Neas Bade: it would be good to get some statistic counts on packet types being used. Teravus, does the throttling code keep track of that at the moment? | ||
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[11:31] Teravus Ousley: It keeps track of only the general types used for throttling | [11:31] Teravus Ousley: It keeps track of only the general types used for throttling | ||
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[11:31] Teravus Ousley: .. and only in the amount necessary to make sure the throttles are honored | [11:31] Teravus Ousley: .. and only in the amount necessary to make sure the throttles are honored | ||
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[11:32] Teravus Ousley lists the throttle types.. | [11:32] Teravus Ousley lists the throttle types.. | ||
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[11:32] Adam Frisby: Hrrm, I wouldnt mind seeing that charted, since I think a few of the types (eg land) come in big spikes. | [11:32] Adam Frisby: Hrrm, I wouldnt mind seeing that charted, since I think a few of the types (eg land) come in big spikes. | ||
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[11:32] Teravus Ousley: Land packets.. wind packets, cloud packets, asset packets, texture packets, task packets, .. | [11:32] Teravus Ousley: Land packets.. wind packets, cloud packets, asset packets, texture packets, task packets, .. | ||
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[11:32] Teravus Ousley: Resend packets.. | [11:32] Teravus Ousley: Resend packets.. | ||
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[11:33] Teravus Ousley: You could easily hook a routine to find out how much of which. | [11:33] Teravus Ousley: You could easily hook a routine to find out how much of which. | ||
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[11:34] Neas Bade: if no one else is diving in there, I will. It would be a good excuse to actually get more wrapped up in the throttle code | [11:34] Neas Bade: if no one else is diving in there, I will. It would be a good excuse to actually get more wrapped up in the throttle code | ||
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[11:34] Neas Bade: on a first pass, those statistics will at least show us if there are a few packet types that we could reuse that would save us a lot | [11:34] Neas Bade: on a first pass, those statistics will at least show us if there are a few packet types that we could reuse that would save us a lot | ||
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[11:34] Teravus Ousley: I'm sure the throttle can also be optimized | [11:34] Teravus Ousley: I'm sure the throttle can also be optimized | ||
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[11:34] Teravus Ousley: :D | [11:34] Teravus Ousley: :D | ||
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[11:35] Adam Johnson: We did notice you could cearly see the throttling working when examing the heapbuddy info | [11:35] Adam Johnson: We did notice you could cearly see the throttling working when examing the heapbuddy info | ||
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[11:35] Adam Johnson: clearly even | [11:35] Adam Johnson: clearly even | ||
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[11:36] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. | [11:36] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. | ||
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[11:36] Teravus Ousley: that code is in two parts.. ClientView.cs.. and in ClientView.PacketQueue | [11:36] Teravus Ousley: that code is in two parts.. ClientView.cs.. and in ClientView.PacketQueue | ||
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[11:36] Adam Frisby: Adam: were these tests done under a Debug or Release version out of curiosity? | [11:36] Adam Frisby: Adam: were these tests done under a Debug or Release version out of curiosity? | ||
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[11:36] Teravus Ousley: .. the part in ClientView.PacketQueue is in the method, 'OutPacket' | [11:36] Teravus Ousley: .. the part in ClientView.PacketQueue is in the method, 'OutPacket' | ||
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[11:37] Adam Johnson: version of what? | [11:37] Adam Johnson: version of what? | ||
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[11:37] Teravus Ousley: the part in ClientView is in throttle_Timer_Elapsed | [11:37] Teravus Ousley: the part in ClientView is in throttle_Timer_Elapsed | ||
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[11:37] Adam Frisby: Was it compiled under a debug or release version? | [11:37] Adam Frisby: Was it compiled under a debug or release version? | ||
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[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: hi nebadon | [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: hi nebadon | ||
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[11:38] Adam Johnson: Ah, not sure.. Will ask Johan tomorrow for you though. | [11:38] Adam Johnson: Ah, not sure.. Will ask Johan tomorrow for you though. | ||
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[11:38] Teravus Ousley: Hey nebadon. I think the asset server is hosed... if you have not already reset it. | [11:38] Teravus Ousley: Hey nebadon. I think the asset server is hosed... if you have not already reset it. | ||
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[11:38] Adam Frisby: If it was under Debug, think you could ask him what the performance is like under a Release? | [11:38] Adam Frisby: If it was under Debug, think you could ask him what the performance is like under a Release? | ||
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[11:38] Adam Frisby: thanks. :) | [11:38] Adam Frisby: thanks. :) | ||
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[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havent looked | [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havent looked | ||
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[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havnet seen textures here in while now | [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havnet seen textures here in while now | ||
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[11:38] Adam Johnson: MW, you there? | [11:38] Adam Johnson: MW, you there? | ||
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[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its been a few days since ive seen the textures load here | [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its been a few days since ive seen the textures load here | ||
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[11:41] Teravus Ousley wonders if we're disecting the clientview code now :D | [11:41] Teravus Ousley wonders if we're disecting the clientview code now :D | ||
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[11:41] Neas Bade: I am, sorry got distracted :) | [11:41] Neas Bade: I am, sorry got distracted :) | ||
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[11:42] Adam Johnson: No problem.. So do you have a kind of guestimate of how much work is involved with ditching libsl? | [11:42] Adam Johnson: No problem.. So do you have a kind of guestimate of how much work is involved with ditching libsl? | ||
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[11:43] Neas Bade: I think that's a confident no | [11:43] Neas Bade: I think that's a confident no | ||
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[11:44] Adam Frisby: Heh yeah | [11:44] Adam Frisby: Heh yeah | ||
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[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: neas last week you said we should be using Sqlite over Grid Assets | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: neas last week you said we should be using Sqlite over Grid Assets | ||
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[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i did some testing on my grid | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i did some testing on my grid | ||
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[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and i got the exact same results sith sqlite | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and i got the exact same results sith sqlite | ||
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[11:44] Neas Bade: really? | [11:44] Neas Bade: really? | ||
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[11:44] Neas Bade: interesting | [11:44] Neas Bade: interesting | ||
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[11:44] Neas Bade: I've not seen any drops with asset_database = sqlite | [11:44] Neas Bade: I've not seen any drops with asset_database = sqlite | ||
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[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hmm | [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hmm | ||
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[11:45] Adam Frisby: We totally need to make ODE primitive bounciness a opensim.ini parameter | [11:45] Adam Frisby: We totally need to make ODE primitive bounciness a opensim.ini parameter | ||
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[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i keep freezing up | [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i keep freezing up | ||
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[11:46] More Wright: Adam Johnson, am here now? | [11:46] More Wright: Adam Johnson, am here now? | ||
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[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but as i was saying in grid mode for me i had better results with Grid assets than i did with sqlite | [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but as i was saying in grid mode for me i had better results with Grid assets than i did with sqlite | ||
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[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sqlite performance seems uber slow in comparison | [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sqlite performance seems uber slow in comparison | ||
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[11:46] Adam Johnson: Oh, speaking of Physics. chi11ken and I were discussing possibly replacing basic physics with POS, and making it configurable. | [11:46] Adam Johnson: Oh, speaking of Physics. chi11ken and I were discussing possibly replacing basic physics with POS, and making it configurable. | ||
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[11:46] Neas Bade: well, there is a different issue there | [11:46] Neas Bade: well, there is a different issue there | ||
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[11:46] Adam Johnson: I think danx0r had similar thoughts about this. | [11:46] Adam Johnson: I think danx0r had similar thoughts about this. | ||
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[11:47] Neas Bade: on my todo list to do some ado.net gutting to get sqlite performance up | [11:47] Neas Bade: on my todo list to do some ado.net gutting to get sqlite performance up | ||
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[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i was less likely to see textures with sqlite | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i was less likely to see textures with sqlite | ||
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[11:47] Neas Bade: I think most of the sqlite perf issues is actually the ado.net layer being slow | [11:47] Neas Bade: I think most of the sqlite perf issues is actually the ado.net layer being slow | ||
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[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: im talking when 1000's of prims are in the picture | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: im talking when 1000's of prims are in the picture | ||
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[11:49] Teravus Ousley: yep. I think we'll also have better luck with everything once we get our draw distance based prim update limitor... however it being like this now is good.. because it gives us a chance to really beat our interfaces to smitherenes with load | [11:49] Teravus Ousley: yep. I think we'll also have better luck with everything once we get our draw distance based prim update limitor... however it being like this now is good.. because it gives us a chance to really beat our interfaces to smitherenes with load | ||
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[11:49] Adam Frisby: Oh --- quick issue actually. | [11:49] Adam Frisby: Oh --- quick issue actually. | ||
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[11:49] Adam Frisby: I'm still getting "Remote Host Closed Connection" issues with remoting under .NET/Win32 | [11:49] Adam Frisby: I'm still getting "Remote Host Closed Connection" issues with remoting under .NET/Win32 | ||
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[11:50] Adam Frisby: We need to put a reconnect in on the remoting handler --- DeepThink which is near here keeps dropping off the radar | [11:50] Adam Frisby: We need to put a reconnect in on the remoting handler --- DeepThink which is near here keeps dropping off the radar | ||
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[11:50] Adam Frisby: although opensim.exe is still there & active | [11:50] Adam Frisby: although opensim.exe is still there & active | ||
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[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes | ||
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[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: my windows server on my mostly linux grid | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: my windows server on my mostly linux grid | ||
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[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: either crashes all the time | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: either crashes all the time | ||
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[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: or is not visible when it is running | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: or is not visible when it is running | ||
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[11:51] Optik Philtr: my old sindows server use to do that too till i fixed it | [11:51] Optik Philtr: my old sindows server use to do that too till i fixed it | ||
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[11:51] More Wright: better yet, lets delete all the grid code, then it will force someone to rewrite it and no mater what I think they would have to make a better job ;) | [11:51] More Wright: better yet, lets delete all the grid code, then it will force someone to rewrite it and no mater what I think they would have to make a better job ;) | ||
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[11:51] Teravus Ousley: There's also likely an issue with events .. and notifying of children agents. | [11:51] Teravus Ousley: There's also likely an issue with events .. and notifying of children agents. | ||
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[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what did you do to fix it? | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what did you do to fix it? | ||
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[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol | ||
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[11:51] Optik Philtr: I changed over to a hosted tektonic linux box | [11:51] Optik Philtr: I changed over to a hosted tektonic linux box | ||
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[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: oh | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: oh | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: haha MW | [11:52] Adam Frisby: haha MW | ||
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[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: Good idea. | [11:52] Adam Frisby: Good idea. | ||
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[11:52] Adam Johnson: lol | [11:52] Adam Johnson: lol | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: I'm still massively in favour of rewriting the grid code. | [11:52] Adam Frisby: I'm still massively in favour of rewriting the grid code. | ||
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[11:52] Optik Philtr: like was said earlier there are some documented anomolies with ado.net | [11:52] Optik Philtr: like was said earlier there are some documented anomolies with ado.net | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: I'd like to revive that topic on the mailing lists. | [11:52] Adam Frisby: I'd like to revive that topic on the mailing lists. | ||
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[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea from my testing so far OpenSIM seems much more stable on Linux | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea from my testing so far OpenSIM seems much more stable on Linux | ||
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[11:52] Optik Philtr: documented as in we can see them regularly | [11:52] Optik Philtr: documented as in we can see them regularly | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: Nebadon: It's probably because it gets more testing under Linux. | [11:52] Adam Frisby: Nebadon: It's probably because it gets more testing under Linux. | ||
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[11:52] Adam Frisby: Still only a few of us using it on Windows | [11:52] Adam Frisby: Still only a few of us using it on Windows | ||
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[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have a 1 windows server | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have a 1 windows server | ||
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[11:53] Adam Johnson: I agree, and would like to put someone on that task, but the suits just don't understand.. | [11:53] Adam Johnson: I agree, and would like to put someone on that task, but the suits just don't understand.. | ||
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[11:53] Neas Bade: well I kept throwing in my $0.02 on the grid stuff :) | [11:53] Neas Bade: well I kept throwing in my $0.02 on the grid stuff :) | ||
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[11:53] Optik Philtr: now i still have my stand alone grid services grid on windows...the huge one | [11:53] Optik Philtr: now i still have my stand alone grid services grid on windows...the huge one | ||
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[11:53] Optik Philtr: it has no big issues | [11:53] Optik Philtr: it has no big issues | ||
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[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea im speaking about Grid Mode | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea im speaking about Grid Mode | ||
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[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: with windows | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: with windows | ||
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[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: standalone it runs great | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: standalone it runs great | ||
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[11:54] More Wright: a topic that isn't for now, but maybe over the next few months is: now that vs 2008 is released and mono 2.2.6 says c# 3.0 is nearly complete, will swapping to c# 3.0 bring anything useful/ that we would like to use? | [11:54] More Wright: a topic that isn't for now, but maybe over the next few months is: now that vs 2008 is released and mono 2.2.6 says c# 3.0 is nearly complete, will swapping to c# 3.0 bring anything useful/ that we would like to use? | ||
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[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: 2.2.6 | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: 2.2.6 | ||
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[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ? | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ? | ||
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[11:54] Adam Frisby: WCF looks potentially nice. | [11:54] Adam Frisby: WCF looks potentially nice. | ||
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[11:54] Adam Frisby: LinQ does too | [11:54] Adam Frisby: LinQ does too | ||
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[11:54] Neas Bade: I think we'd have to wait until at least June for that | [11:54] Neas Bade: I think we'd have to wait until at least June for that | ||
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[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: will there be a free version of 2008? | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: will there be a free version of 2008? | ||
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[11:55] Neas Bade: if it doesn't run on the latest ubuntu, the barrier to run on linux is higher than it should be | [11:55] Neas Bade: if it doesn't run on the latest ubuntu, the barrier to run on linux is higher than it should be | ||
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[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats the question | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats the question | ||
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[11:55] Neas Bade: and we're still on 1.2.4 in latest ubuntu | [11:55] Neas Bade: and we're still on 1.2.4 in latest ubuntu | ||
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[11:55] More Wright: 1.2.6 | [11:55] More Wright: 1.2.6 | ||
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[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: you can downloading the 1.2.5.1 installer from the mono-project website | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: you can downloading the 1.2.5.1 installer from the mono-project website | ||
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[11:56] Neas Bade: you can, but then you loose a lot of the other linkage to the system | [11:56] Neas Bade: you can, but then you loose a lot of the other linkage to the system | ||
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[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I did it on Sabayon | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I did it on Sabayon | ||
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[11:56] Neas Bade: breaking package management on Linux is like forcing people into dos prompts on windows | [11:56] Neas Bade: breaking package management on Linux is like forcing people into dos prompts on windows | ||
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[11:56] Mircea Kitsune: hi | [11:56] Mircea Kitsune: hi | ||
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[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and it seemed to work well | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and it seemed to work well | ||
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[11:56] More Wright: and yeah there is a free VS 2008 express already, but yeah if 1.2.6 isn't usable yet for most people it will have to wait | [11:56] More Wright: and yeah there is a free VS 2008 express already, but yeah if 1.2.6 isn't usable yet for most people it will have to wait | ||
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[11:57] Adam Frisby: Speaking of VS 2008 | [11:57] Adam Frisby: Speaking of VS 2008 | ||
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[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: is 1.2.6 even available? | [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: is 1.2.6 even available? | ||
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[11:57] Adam Frisby: Anyone here have access to VS 2008 Team Edition? | [11:57] Adam Frisby: Anyone here have access to VS 2008 Team Edition? | ||
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[11:57] Adam Frisby: I've only got Pro | [11:57] Adam Frisby: I've only got Pro | ||
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[11:57] Mircea Kitsune: did the meeting just beginned or is ending? | [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: did the meeting just beginned or is ending? | ||
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[11:57] Mircea Kitsune: *begin | [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: *begin | ||
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[11:57] Adam Frisby: Probably ending soonish | [11:57] Adam Frisby: Probably ending soonish | ||
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[11:57] Adam Frisby: anyway -- anyone have VS 2008 Team Ed? | [11:57] Adam Frisby: anyway -- anyone have VS 2008 Team Ed? | ||
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[11:57] More Wright: nope | [11:57] More Wright: nope | ||
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[11:58] Adam Frisby: There's a new "Code Review" function in it which helps isolate bad sections of code | [11:58] Adam Frisby: There's a new "Code Review" function in it which helps isolate bad sections of code | ||
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[11:58] Kurt Stringer: nope - Im on express edition | [11:58] Kurt Stringer: nope - Im on express edition | ||
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[11:58] Adam Johnson: no | [11:58] Adam Johnson: no | ||
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[11:58] Adam Frisby: I'd love for someone to run it across the codebase and then post a copy of the report to the mailing list | [11:58] Adam Frisby: I'd love for someone to run it across the codebase and then post a copy of the report to the mailing list | ||
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[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I dont even see Mono 1.2.6 available for download on the mono-project website | [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I dont even see Mono 1.2.6 available for download on the mono-project website | ||
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[11:58] More Wright: there is a 90 day trail of the team edition though | [11:58] More Wright: there is a 90 day trail of the team edition though | ||
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[11:58] Neas Bade: I wonder if it is as good as the gramar checker ;) | [11:58] Neas Bade: I wonder if it is as good as the gramar checker ;) | ||
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[11:58] Neas Bade: mono 1.2.6 isn't released yet | [11:58] Neas Bade: mono 1.2.6 isn't released yet | ||
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[11:58] Adam Frisby: Neas: well it isolates things like needlessly complex functions & classes | [11:58] Adam Frisby: Neas: well it isolates things like needlessly complex functions & classes | ||
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[11:59] Adam Frisby: which, if we at least look at, might be able to nail down some potentially buggy areas of the code. | [11:59] Adam Frisby: which, if we at least look at, might be able to nail down some potentially buggy areas of the code. | ||
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[11:59] More Wright: Neas Bade, last time I looked mono 1.2.6 was set for a begining of december release | [11:59] More Wright: Neas Bade, last time I looked mono 1.2.6 was set for a begining of december release | ||
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[11:59] Optik Philtr thinks it should be run on the client | [11:59] Optik Philtr thinks it should be run on the client | ||
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[12:00] Kurt Stringer: interesting conversation today - I have to leave now = bye everyone | [12:00] Kurt Stringer: interesting conversation today - I have to leave now = bye everyone | ||
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[12:00] Neas Bade: yeh, got to start diving into packet code | [12:00] Neas Bade: yeh, got to start diving into packet code | ||
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[12:00] Teravus Ousley: bye | [12:00] Teravus Ousley: bye | ||
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[12:00] Mircea Kitsune: too bad i missed it :( anyway, like i said on irc, ill do some teleporting tests soon | [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: too bad i missed it :( anyway, like i said on irc, ill do some teleporting tests soon | ||
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[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye kurt | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye kurt | ||
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[12:00] Teravus Ousley: It's not that scary really | [12:00] Teravus Ousley: It's not that scary really | ||
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[12:00] Mircea Kitsune: see ya | [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: see ya | ||
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[12:00] More Wright: bye | [12:00] More Wright: bye | ||
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[12:00] Teravus Ousley: .. Just have to understand what it's doing :D | [12:00] Teravus Ousley: .. Just have to understand what it's doing :D | ||
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[12:00] Adam Frisby: Yeah I should be heading to bed | [12:00] Adam Frisby: Yeah I should be heading to bed | ||
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[12:01] Adam Johnson: Me too | [12:01] Adam Johnson: Me too | ||
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[12:01] Adam Johnson: Ugh | [12:01] Adam Johnson: Ugh | ||
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[12:01] Adam Frisby: need to be up by lunch today. heh, 5AM already | [12:01] Adam Frisby: need to be up by lunch today. heh, 5AM already | ||
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[12:01] Adam Johnson: ditto | [12:01] Adam Johnson: ditto | ||
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[12:01] Teravus Ousley: .. the BlockingQueue is keeping the clientloop thread from sucking up resources.. and managing the traffing inbound and outbound | [12:01] Teravus Ousley: .. the BlockingQueue is keeping the clientloop thread from sucking up resources.. and managing the traffing inbound and outbound | ||
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[12:01] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll see you guys around later. :) | [12:01] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll see you guys around later. :) | ||
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[12:01] Teravus Ousley: take care Adam :D | [12:01] Teravus Ousley: take care Adam :D | ||
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[12:01] Teravus Ousley: sleep well | [12:01] Teravus Ousley: sleep well | ||
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[12:02] Adam Johnson: I'll see you guys tomorrow in irc. :) | [12:02] Adam Johnson: I'll see you guys tomorrow in irc. :) | ||
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[12:02] Teravus Ousley: when there's packets in PacketQueue(the blocking queue).. the clientloop runs | [12:02] Teravus Ousley: when there's packets in PacketQueue(the blocking queue).. the clientloop runs | ||
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[12:02] Adam Johnson: MW, mind helping us a bit.. we may be starting the process of geting rid of libsl | [12:02] Adam Johnson: MW, mind helping us a bit.. we may be starting the process of geting rid of libsl | ||
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[12:03] Mircea Kitsune: well im leaving back to my sim now (tries a teleport) see you around :) | [12:03] Mircea Kitsune: well im leaving back to my sim now (tries a teleport) see you around :) | ||
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[12:04] More Wright: Adam, yeah I'll help all I can, I'm a bit pressed for free time the last few months and is likely to last until january at least but I'll help where I can | [12:04] More Wright: Adam, yeah I'll help all I can, I'm a bit pressed for free time the last few months and is likely to last until january at least but I'll help where I can | ||
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[12:04] Adam Johnson: Okay thanks. :) | [12:04] Adam Johnson: Okay thanks. :) | ||
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[12:05] Adam Johnson: Anways, talk to you guys later. | [12:05] Adam Johnson: Anways, talk to you guys later. | ||
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[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: chhers | [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: chhers | ||
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[12:08] More Wright: yeah I need to go too, see you in irc | [12:08] More Wright: yeah I need to go too, see you in irc | ||
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[12:08] Teravus Ousley: k, take care | [12:08] Teravus Ousley: k, take care | ||
− | |||
[12:08] Teravus Ousley poofs also | [12:08] Teravus Ousley poofs also |
Revision as of 02:49, 28 November 2007
[11:01] Teravus Ousley: new people seem to be less gray to me [11:01] Neas Bade: yes, agreed [11:01] Kurt Stringer: Heoo all [11:02] Kurt Stringer: lol [11:02] Teravus Ousley: Hai Kurt [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hey kurt [11:02] Kurt Stringer: hello all [11:02] Neas Bade: hey [11:02] Adam Frisby: lo [11:04] Teravus Ousley: 0x0 textures.. asset server is definately hosed [11:04] Teravus Ousley: . [11:04] Adam Frisby: Woot [11:04] Adam Frisby: Just like the main grid. :D [11:05] Neas Bade: yeh, we need to get this off of the grid asset server, which is just very broken right now [11:06] Adam Frisby: Or add in a bit of intelligent caching [11:06] Adam Frisby: a sim should have a copy of every texture in prims in it [11:06] Adam Frisby: err on prims [11:06] Adam Frisby: ditto for common assets, eg the moon / sun, etc. [11:09] More Wright: is no one talking, or can I just not hear anything? [11:09] Teravus Ousley: no one is talking [11:09] Teravus Ousley: we're all changing our appearance :P [11:09] Adam Johnson: We are telling secrets about you ;) [11:09] Teravus Ousley: . [11:09] Adam Frisby: Heh [11:09] Neas Bade: :) [11:09] More Wright: ahh cool [11:10] Adam Frisby: All secrets about me, like how I'm going to completely stack myself on the slopes in Japan this weekend, courtesy of Adam. [11:10] Adam Frisby: hehe [11:10] More Wright: you two going sking? [11:10] Adam Frisby: Yeah [11:10] More Wright: and the rest of us wasn't invited? [11:10] Adam Johnson: yeah, gonna hopefully not break my neck. ;) [11:11] Adam Johnson: You are all welcome anytime. :P [11:11] Adam Frisby: Well, if your in Japan. hehe. [11:11] Adam Johnson: Indeed. haha [11:12] Adam Frisby: Anyway [11:12] Adam Frisby: Agenda? [11:12] Neas Bade: I had some proposals on the list [11:12] Neas Bade: given that Adam J is here, I'd suggest we start with the packet overhead findings the 3Di team found [11:13] Neas Bade: I think that would be very interesting [11:13] Adam Johnson: Heh, sure. [11:13] Teravus Ousley: very reasonable [11:13] Adam Johnson: Though it is opening a fun topic involving libsl. [11:13] Neas Bade: opening fun topics is always allowed :) [11:13] Adam Johnson: Well, do we push on with .3 of libsl, or completely do away with it? [11:14] Adam Frisby: I had a chat with Adam earlier this evening about that latter option -- having classes of each packets may be a very inefficient way of handling things. [11:14] Adam Frisby: It might be better to have a: byte[] buildXYZPacket(A, B, C, D); function for every packet. [11:15] Teravus Ousley: shh, nobody type.. .. my boss is looking over my shoulder.. j/k [11:16] Adam Frisby: Hehe [11:16] Adam Johnson: So, I guess the big question on 3DI's end would be, how much work will each option involve. [11:16] Neas Bade: right [11:17] Neas Bade: I think the issue that was hit with a previous attempt at 0.3 update was a bunch of fields got marked private that busted opensim [11:17] Adam Frisby: 90% of libsls codebase is generated procedurally by another application, we should be able to modify that to produce the buildPacket equivilents pretty easily. [11:18] Adam Frisby: But, there is extra stuff which we use like their layerdata encoder/decoders. [11:18] Teravus Ousley: They also have 'all' of their packets in one CS file.. _packets.cs [11:18] More Wright: that is what is built precedurally [11:18] Adam Johnson: and the openjpeg bits as well. [11:19] Adam Frisby: True, although I made the suggestion to p0pe about moving their OpenJpeg to a seperate project called OpenJpeg.net or something [11:19] More Wright: they as far as I know have a application that takes the message_template file and produces the _packet.cs file from it [11:19] Adam Frisby: since there's more than just libsl using that now [11:19] Adam Johnson: True [11:20] Adam Frisby: Hrrm [11:20] Teravus Ousley: odd, does the message template have enough information to do that? [11:20] Adam Frisby: These performance issues -- they should be hitting libsl too right? [11:20] Adam Frisby: Tervaus: yes. [11:20] Adam Johnson: They are actually.. [11:20] Adam Frisby: libsl might appreciate switching to buildPacket equivilents internally if we can demonstrate a big performance increase. [11:20] Teravus Ousley wonders what message template they are looking at :P [11:20] Adam Johnson: I notice these spikes on login/teleports in MovableLife [11:21] More Wright: Tervaus, the one included with the SL client [11:21] Adam Frisby: msg_template.msg [11:21] Adam Frisby: Open it in notepad [11:21] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. I did.. but it didn't seem to have enough info specifically on packet payloads. [11:21] Teravus Ousley shrugs.. [11:21] Teravus Ousley: maybe they figured out something.. [11:22] Adam Frisby: We dont use anything more complex than msg_template in opensim itself [11:22] Teravus Ousley: anyway.. different topic.. back to performance [11:22] Adam Frisby: we have to figure out the payloads too [11:23] Adam Johnson: Indeed. [11:23] Teravus Ousley: so the main bog is not dealing with them as byte arrays the majority of the time? [11:25] Adam Johnson: The main bog is coming from GC, because we keep creating new packets and never reuse them. [11:25] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. [11:25] Adam Frisby: Create a circular list of each packet type for re-use. Mark as "in use" / "not in use"? [11:25] Adam Johnson: On login the number of packets created is pretty huge.. and if you check out heapbuddy, you can see that the GC is pretty intense at that point. [11:25] Adam Frisby: after it's been sent, reset the use flag [11:25] Teravus Ousley: Adam beat me to it :P [11:26] Adam Frisby: Question: did you guys find any other performance issues while you were profiling? [11:27] Adam Johnson: So far, that was the only one that we have found.. but I think we need to do some more analyzing. [11:27] Adam Johnson: and, it would be good to have a custom profiler created... [11:27] Adam Frisby: I've got one I've got semi-completed, the catch is it's windows-only since it relies on WMI to get profiling information. [11:27] Adam Johnson: That would still be of use to us I think. [11:28] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll send you guys a copy -- it's designed for grid information mainly. [11:28] Adam Frisby: health / status / etc. [11:28] Adam Johnson: Okay great, we have been mainly dealing with sandbox, but will be doing some grid tests shortly. [11:30] Adam Frisby: Alright, well - seems like we should look at re-using rather than disposing of packets [11:30] Adam Frisby: MW: This is probably something you have the most experience with, how long do you think it will take? [11:30] Adam Johnson: Yep, I think it will fix a lot of the login cap problems [11:31] Neas Bade: it would be good to get some statistic counts on packet types being used. Teravus, does the throttling code keep track of that at the moment? [11:31] Teravus Ousley: It keeps track of only the general types used for throttling [11:31] Teravus Ousley: .. and only in the amount necessary to make sure the throttles are honored [11:32] Teravus Ousley lists the throttle types.. [11:32] Adam Frisby: Hrrm, I wouldnt mind seeing that charted, since I think a few of the types (eg land) come in big spikes. [11:32] Teravus Ousley: Land packets.. wind packets, cloud packets, asset packets, texture packets, task packets, .. [11:32] Teravus Ousley: Resend packets.. [11:33] Teravus Ousley: You could easily hook a routine to find out how much of which. [11:34] Neas Bade: if no one else is diving in there, I will. It would be a good excuse to actually get more wrapped up in the throttle code [11:34] Neas Bade: on a first pass, those statistics will at least show us if there are a few packet types that we could reuse that would save us a lot [11:34] Teravus Ousley: I'm sure the throttle can also be optimized [11:34] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:35] Adam Johnson: We did notice you could cearly see the throttling working when examing the heapbuddy info [11:35] Adam Johnson: clearly even [11:36] Adam Frisby: Hrrm. [11:36] Teravus Ousley: that code is in two parts.. ClientView.cs.. and in ClientView.PacketQueue [11:36] Adam Frisby: Adam: were these tests done under a Debug or Release version out of curiosity? [11:36] Teravus Ousley: .. the part in ClientView.PacketQueue is in the method, 'OutPacket' [11:37] Adam Johnson: version of what? [11:37] Teravus Ousley: the part in ClientView is in throttle_Timer_Elapsed [11:37] Adam Frisby: Was it compiled under a debug or release version? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: hi nebadon [11:38] Adam Johnson: Ah, not sure.. Will ask Johan tomorrow for you though. [11:38] Teravus Ousley: Hey nebadon. I think the asset server is hosed... if you have not already reset it. [11:38] Adam Frisby: If it was under Debug, think you could ask him what the performance is like under a Release? [11:38] Adam Frisby: thanks. :) [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havent looked [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i havnet seen textures here in while now [11:38] Adam Johnson: MW, you there? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its been a few days since ive seen the textures load here [11:41] Teravus Ousley wonders if we're disecting the clientview code now :D [11:41] Neas Bade: I am, sorry got distracted :) [11:42] Adam Johnson: No problem.. So do you have a kind of guestimate of how much work is involved with ditching libsl? [11:43] Neas Bade: I think that's a confident no [11:44] Adam Frisby: Heh yeah [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: neas last week you said we should be using Sqlite over Grid Assets [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i did some testing on my grid [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and i got the exact same results sith sqlite [11:44] Neas Bade: really? [11:44] Neas Bade: interesting [11:44] Neas Bade: I've not seen any drops with asset_database = sqlite [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:45] Adam Frisby: We totally need to make ODE primitive bounciness a opensim.ini parameter [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i keep freezing up [11:46] More Wright: Adam Johnson, am here now? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but as i was saying in grid mode for me i had better results with Grid assets than i did with sqlite [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sqlite performance seems uber slow in comparison [11:46] Adam Johnson: Oh, speaking of Physics. chi11ken and I were discussing possibly replacing basic physics with POS, and making it configurable. [11:46] Neas Bade: well, there is a different issue there [11:46] Adam Johnson: I think danx0r had similar thoughts about this. [11:47] Neas Bade: on my todo list to do some ado.net gutting to get sqlite performance up [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i was less likely to see textures with sqlite [11:47] Neas Bade: I think most of the sqlite perf issues is actually the ado.net layer being slow [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: im talking when 1000's of prims are in the picture [11:49] Teravus Ousley: yep. I think we'll also have better luck with everything once we get our draw distance based prim update limitor... however it being like this now is good.. because it gives us a chance to really beat our interfaces to smitherenes with load [11:49] Adam Frisby: Oh --- quick issue actually. [11:49] Adam Frisby: I'm still getting "Remote Host Closed Connection" issues with remoting under .NET/Win32 [11:50] Adam Frisby: We need to put a reconnect in on the remoting handler --- DeepThink which is near here keeps dropping off the radar [11:50] Adam Frisby: although opensim.exe is still there & active [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: my windows server on my mostly linux grid [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: either crashes all the time [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: or is not visible when it is running [11:51] Optik Philtr: my old sindows server use to do that too till i fixed it [11:51] More Wright: better yet, lets delete all the grid code, then it will force someone to rewrite it and no mater what I think they would have to make a better job ;) [11:51] Teravus Ousley: There's also likely an issue with events .. and notifying of children agents. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what did you do to fix it? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:51] Optik Philtr: I changed over to a hosted tektonic linux box [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: oh [11:52] Adam Frisby: haha MW [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:52] Adam Frisby: Good idea. [11:52] Adam Johnson: lol [11:52] Adam Frisby: I'm still massively in favour of rewriting the grid code. [11:52] Optik Philtr: like was said earlier there are some documented anomolies with ado.net [11:52] Adam Frisby: I'd like to revive that topic on the mailing lists. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea from my testing so far OpenSIM seems much more stable on Linux [11:52] Optik Philtr: documented as in we can see them regularly [11:52] Adam Frisby: Nebadon: It's probably because it gets more testing under Linux. [11:52] Adam Frisby: Still only a few of us using it on Windows [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have a 1 windows server [11:53] Adam Johnson: I agree, and would like to put someone on that task, but the suits just don't understand.. [11:53] Neas Bade: well I kept throwing in my $0.02 on the grid stuff :) [11:53] Optik Philtr: now i still have my stand alone grid services grid on windows...the huge one [11:53] Optik Philtr: it has no big issues [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea im speaking about Grid Mode [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: with windows [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: standalone it runs great [11:54] More Wright: a topic that isn't for now, but maybe over the next few months is: now that vs 2008 is released and mono 2.2.6 says c# 3.0 is nearly complete, will swapping to c# 3.0 bring anything useful/ that we would like to use? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: 2.2.6 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ? [11:54] Adam Frisby: WCF looks potentially nice. [11:54] Adam Frisby: LinQ does too [11:54] Neas Bade: I think we'd have to wait until at least June for that [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: will there be a free version of 2008? [11:55] Neas Bade: if it doesn't run on the latest ubuntu, the barrier to run on linux is higher than it should be [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats the question [11:55] Neas Bade: and we're still on 1.2.4 in latest ubuntu [11:55] More Wright: 1.2.6 [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: you can downloading the 1.2.5.1 installer from the mono-project website [11:56] Neas Bade: you can, but then you loose a lot of the other linkage to the system [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I did it on Sabayon [11:56] Neas Bade: breaking package management on Linux is like forcing people into dos prompts on windows [11:56] Mircea Kitsune: hi [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and it seemed to work well [11:56] More Wright: and yeah there is a free VS 2008 express already, but yeah if 1.2.6 isn't usable yet for most people it will have to wait [11:57] Adam Frisby: Speaking of VS 2008 [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: is 1.2.6 even available? [11:57] Adam Frisby: Anyone here have access to VS 2008 Team Edition? [11:57] Adam Frisby: I've only got Pro [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: did the meeting just beginned or is ending? [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: *begin [11:57] Adam Frisby: Probably ending soonish [11:57] Adam Frisby: anyway -- anyone have VS 2008 Team Ed? [11:57] More Wright: nope [11:58] Adam Frisby: There's a new "Code Review" function in it which helps isolate bad sections of code [11:58] Kurt Stringer: nope - Im on express edition [11:58] Adam Johnson: no [11:58] Adam Frisby: I'd love for someone to run it across the codebase and then post a copy of the report to the mailing list [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I dont even see Mono 1.2.6 available for download on the mono-project website [11:58] More Wright: there is a 90 day trail of the team edition though [11:58] Neas Bade: I wonder if it is as good as the gramar checker ;) [11:58] Neas Bade: mono 1.2.6 isn't released yet [11:58] Adam Frisby: Neas: well it isolates things like needlessly complex functions & classes [11:59] Adam Frisby: which, if we at least look at, might be able to nail down some potentially buggy areas of the code. [11:59] More Wright: Neas Bade, last time I looked mono 1.2.6 was set for a begining of december release [11:59] Optik Philtr thinks it should be run on the client [12:00] Kurt Stringer: interesting conversation today - I have to leave now = bye everyone [12:00] Neas Bade: yeh, got to start diving into packet code [12:00] Teravus Ousley: bye [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: too bad i missed it :( anyway, like i said on irc, ill do some teleporting tests soon [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye kurt [12:00] Teravus Ousley: It's not that scary really [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: see ya [12:00] More Wright: bye [12:00] Teravus Ousley: .. Just have to understand what it's doing :D [12:00] Adam Frisby: Yeah I should be heading to bed [12:01] Adam Johnson: Me too [12:01] Adam Johnson: Ugh [12:01] Adam Frisby: need to be up by lunch today. heh, 5AM already [12:01] Adam Johnson: ditto [12:01] Teravus Ousley: .. the BlockingQueue is keeping the clientloop thread from sucking up resources.. and managing the traffing inbound and outbound [12:01] Adam Frisby: Alright, I'll see you guys around later. :) [12:01] Teravus Ousley: take care Adam :D [12:01] Teravus Ousley: sleep well [12:02] Adam Johnson: I'll see you guys tomorrow in irc. :) [12:02] Teravus Ousley: when there's packets in PacketQueue(the blocking queue).. the clientloop runs [12:02] Adam Johnson: MW, mind helping us a bit.. we may be starting the process of geting rid of libsl [12:03] Mircea Kitsune: well im leaving back to my sim now (tries a teleport) see you around :) [12:04] More Wright: Adam, yeah I'll help all I can, I'm a bit pressed for free time the last few months and is likely to last until january at least but I'll help where I can [12:04] Adam Johnson: Okay thanks. :) [12:05] Adam Johnson: Anways, talk to you guys later. [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: chhers [12:08] More Wright: yeah I need to go too, see you in irc [12:08] Teravus Ousley: k, take care [12:08] Teravus Ousley poofs also