[11:05 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:05 AM] Ubit Umarov: welcome andrew
[11:05 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah IDK. The region is loading fine when I visit outside of the meeting and same does everything in LBSA direct login or HG
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:06 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew
[11:07 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have time to run the meeting today. I'm very busy trying to get ready for a trade show that starts on Monday and there is still too much work to be done. I'm still fighting a bunch of losing battles.
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: oh make at least some of those wins
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: While you are warming up, we are starting our OpenSimulator Community Conference (OSCC) planning meetings this Friday. A call for proposals will go out later this month for session proposals - for those who wish to plan ahead.
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Understandable, Andrew
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I snuck in my announcement *grins*
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: have fun at the Trade Show
[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr, ok, good. I remembered you had said there would be news in a few weeks.
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Yes, I was delayed by the loss of my PC, but back in the swing of things
[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I am not going to the show. It is in the US. I'm just trying to get the hardware ready along with the software we need it to run.
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: planning from afar is tricky
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Welcome Jagga
[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: One C++ based program won't compile as the box doesn't have enough memory. I need to set up the source tree for cross-compilation. I also still haven't gotten the TPM chip working. :P
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: soem cpus do not need the chip
[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I still need to take a break for lunch. I'll see all of you next week. Once the trade show is on things will get back to "normal".
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: oe win11 does not need the chip with some cpus
[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: It isn't the system CPU that needs it. We have requirements for improved system security.
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Have a good meeting. I have to run. See you this coming Tuesday.
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[11:12 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good luck!
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, thanks. I need all the luck I can get.
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Only two commits this week, a pr merge and some cosmetics
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok Lyr, want to talks about oscc?
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: ..talk
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: jagga may had not seen your info before
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok mb later :)
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile OSgrid is calling everyone to a meeting next 27th, abotu the future of it
[11:15 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what's to be expected?
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: they ask for people to join using local grid avatars
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://www.osgrid.org/
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: that is all i know..
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: got it on fs splash whne i did login :)
[11:16 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I hoped you had some juicy rumors
[11:16 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it is a good conversation to have
[11:16 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: community plans
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: ohhh guess the usual.. "it is the end of thr world as we knew it..
[11:16 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: pffft
[11:17 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ubit sings REM...the world is indeed at risk!
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah :)
[11:17 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: more like "Hello Darkness my old friend..."
[11:17 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: O.o
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: talking about the end of the world.. yes ame 2 little commits
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: accepting a PR with some things on HG friends notifications
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: winehq saying they'll merge and release a new version of libgdiplus that will fix the font loading so things should be getting back to normal once that is downstream
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: jezz do not sing that... everytime you did my power supplier decided to cut power in my area
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: once for 2 days
[11:20 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( well that was the big power loss in portugal and spain more year ago now)
[11:21 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: thank you for those updates
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:24 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, I published a new viewer build as always on https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: cool :)
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: how is claude?
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In this one we have figured out how to connect the macOS menu line to the viewermenus
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we can start lifting UI out of the OpenGL view
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm surprised claude hasn't lost it looking at recent LL commits breaking everything and hallucinating more than most LLMs
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unreleased yet, we have blinking starts on WindLight
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: stars
[11:26 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Twinkling as a night sky effect or flashing as in not good?
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: stars do not blink on the moon
[11:27 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: numbers configurable, we do it with a shader that runs during a normal frame pass. The other viewers blink the entire horizon every 2.5 seconds
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:27 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: gotcha, so a good thing
[11:27 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true Ubit, so they can be turned off too
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: that should even be a flag on envi...
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: but ofc lindens have never been at the moon
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: today Claude dug itself into a true hole with vertex buffer stuff that also crash the other viewers
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had to revert it all after 4 hours, haha
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:29 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we also documented all the render paths properly. 11 paths for different things, Huds have it own render path completely different from the rest
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Reminds me, somewhere in there on the asset decode it can apparently fail when the data it tries to decode isn't actually an asset. FS recorded a few of my bugsplats when it would get xml data or apparently even just the http status code attempting to decode that to image
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Maybe let it loose on de-linden the viewer for us OS folks :)
[11:30 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is what I do
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: :)
[11:30 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: grrr that key combination
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: np im wear ears protection now
[11:31 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:34 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so Claude is generally vey useful but it has a tendency to go all over the place unless you keep steering it all the time
[11:34 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me smiles
[11:35 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I used the latest Fable 5.1 model to document the renderer but ig gobbled up around $70 doing it
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: outch
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: who cares abt doc.. it is all in code... cofff coff coff
[11:36 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, the code that breaks for every piddly little change and nobody get why
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: the lindens who made that wanted to keep the jobs...
[11:37 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: indeed
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Did some experiments yesterday with shifting some tasks from code into the database. Routines for clearing stuck presence, but the amount of differences between db apps is driving me nuts. Wouldn't work for sqlite anyways
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: Lite on that seems to mean something :)
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And they are not persistent so I'd have to check for whether they are setup on each boot or periodically even at which point might as well do the unstick in code
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Heaven forbid use the technology as intended when it throws a tantrum every time you try
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not my idea of a good time
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: you forget than some tech was made only to increase sales cost and profit.. never to be used..
[11:41 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me notices ISP issues and goes offline to work on it.
[11:41 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: see you next week *waves*
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we found some Linden code that is called on every frame and just spins CPU, and does absolutely nothing useful at all.
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: oh hope you sort... err 2 late
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No doubt once you remove that code some timing issue comes to light breaking everything
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Every time
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: winter is comming.. you need to keep the room warm with cpu heat
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have two wood burners, so I'm good
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's 30°C where I am, no need for more heat
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yet
[11:45 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: about the stars, the LL code generate 1000 per frame but only draw 600 of them, the rest sitting in buffers one per star being discarded
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: nice
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: well bet old cold stars..
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ificiant
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: not big enough to next stage as neutron stars etc
[11:46 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it just use memory for nothign
[11:46 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: neutron star needs 64Gb VRAM
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: will also burnt the panel
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 20000 nits
[11:47 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They also merged a pr that attempted to fix file dialogs in fullscreen and it broke the whole thing. Reading the comment in the code is just total nonsense, it's pretty funny how lackluster their quality control is lately
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Every week it's at least one total bs commit it seems
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Wouldn't surprise me if 5% of the entire codebase is essentially useless or broken
[11:49 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lots of it is broken
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Understatement of the year
[11:50 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pretty much every pass we find code that is never called, and if it was it would immediately crash, or code that does nothing
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess more than 5%
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: bc they do not cleanup older code
[11:51 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it seems
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: think they even told that on a meeting
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: they just take it out of pths and leave it there
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: paths
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: According to robust logs there seem to be some users that consistently get told on login that they are already logged in. They were not. Somewhere the presence entry is processed twice or sent twice so the login routines detect an existing presence entry. Haven't dug into which side the problem comes from
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It wouldn't surprise me if this was just the viewer sending things twice cause it didn't hear back fast enough, but I also run two robust instances so potentially some interaction there, though the proxy should stick to single instance for a given user
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Something is going sideways, but only for specific users, which I'm not sure what clue that is
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok bug fixed.. next
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do they use the same db?
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yes, but checking the logs of them they don't see a login or the user if the other instance is taking it
[11:54 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The proxy goes by ip, so they only ever get sent to a specific instance and usually stick to that until the ip changes
[11:54 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I would expect if it was that then it would not be so consistent to specific users and I have never seen it myself
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which smells of network aka resending of packets
[11:55 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: any specific viewer build used by those who experience it?
[11:56 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Current release of Firestorm
[11:56 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If it keeps happening I'll dig into presence add some logging to see if it actually inserts or if this is somehow a fail on logout
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I doubt its logout, I'd see them on the world map if it was
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I know in some protocols Firestorm behaves differently sends less or more to deal with some conditions
[11:58 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it also talks with some external server to do stuff + the bridge
[11:58 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The thing most of the users have in common is distance from grid service itself, they are thousands of kilometers away so network latency seems most suspect
[11:58 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That or the bandwidth setting messing with something
[11:59 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I was under the impression on login that setting was ignored though
[11:59 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe ask them to ping the server and report latency
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: login at robust is http
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: ofc until viwers is told to connect to a region, then is it http and udp
[12:00 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: jagga could you rebake, I'd like to see if the viewer logs anything
[12:01 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: http still could resend packets, but the other end should ignore the resend if it already processed the original
[12:02 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Latency issues are difficult to pinpoint even mtr is often useless at least I never seen it actually show a problem, ping is too light to see any stress related issues
[12:02 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit the same please
[12:02 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If login really ignores all throttles it might just overload
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: you do not see http resends... that is TCP
[12:02 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yep
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: but.. fs does stupid http retries even with current connection open
[12:03 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have grown untrusting of everything
[12:03 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Occupational hazard of programming and watching GN
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: wel we are what the hour
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit could you rebake pls?
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: any other issue for this week?
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: done
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: i told you.. im prettier as a cloud
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you were baked but it logged lines like:
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ewview/llvoavatar.cpp(9520) LLVOAvatar::onBakedTextureMasksLoaded : unexpected image id: 9f2b220d-6986-42ad-a90a-b84f8e1c7532
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I need to see if that is bugs in our code
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: :(
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: do not see that uuid on my bakes
