[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. I had a work thing that resulted in a late lunch.
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Oh.... power just came back on lol
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that's good
[11:10 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we could hear the sparking
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello everyone
[11:11 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Lyr
[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Did I miss the discussion about the two code changes this past week?
[11:12 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hi Ubit
[11:12 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: rebake yourself will you?
[11:12 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: No, Andrew
[11:13 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit I meant
[11:13 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Yes, *grins*
[11:13 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but I am obedient *chuckles*
[11:13 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Everyone looks good to me.
[11:13 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes, you all look great to me
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Cuga is a pirate!
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit is a massive cloud, but I am on experimental code
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Arr Matey!
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: im prettier as cloud
[11:14 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: It is the tinfoil hat
[11:14 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: My Groovyverse outfit, my go-to when my own grid is down
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there you came out of the fog. thx
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ah yes
[11:15 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not much code change, just aligning viewer limits for the teleport height after I nudged that hehe
[11:15 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we were testing oscc, hence the switch here
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: duhh cntr-alt- does not rebake now
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: adds R simbol to chat
[11:15 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: right, I go into appearance and edit shape to force it
[11:15 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ctrl-alt-del most likely will
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok seems to work if chat is not selected
[11:16 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[11:16 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me listens to the code changes while in class
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm yeah last week we did spoke about the small code changes on code that week
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: this week we also had a simple one... change the max Z to 64 8 1024 m to match viewer setting
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: 64 * 1024
[11:18 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: FS now allows teleports up to 65536 meters, uint16 max value, so we can reach skyboxes above 4096 more easily
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: well at least fs setting
[11:18 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is way higher than the worlds tallest mountain
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: almost iss level
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:19 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I don't recommend going past 16k, gets cold up there, avatar starts shaking heh
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Perfect for people wanting to have a space station on their land.
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: well iss is 400 000m.. a bit more
[11:20 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: been there, done that...
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: (400Km)
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: and thay call that space.. duhh
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Rounding error up there must be wicked
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I wonder how many actual regions you would need to build to a height like that looking realistic?
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah building above 4km may have issues
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: same reason to have max region size of 4km
[11:22 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is fine. it is cold up there and little oxygen
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah barin does not notice the error
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: or brain
[11:22 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me snorts and grins
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Don't Total Recall yourself heh
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Is the 65536 meter limit mainly for TPing to adjacent sims
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's height
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: Z limit. npt x,y
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: not..
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: ahh ok
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Aka how far up you can go, before was 4096 so if your skybox was higher you had trouble getting there
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: (Cugs wonders, why oh why would that get used) *shrugs*
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: well our limit was 50km
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: viewers just like powers of 2...
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: not that relevant on a float but details
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's going to be in the next FS beta, the current one released a few days ago does not have that change yet
[11:28 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: TJ also cleaned up the vivox voice a bit since I been having some strange issues with that, though I think that's down to how I run the test versions over network. It now defaults to the osp server for OS rather than the one SL uses
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: I was having issues with Vivox though its been a while since I checked. I will try the new update to see if it improves
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What kind of issues?
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Just trouble connecting initially
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: private chat
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: The problem wasn't consistent
[11:38 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, mine has a fallback to the osp for Opensim too
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we did some good progress for the Mac viewer last week whic is op
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is posted as a dev build
[11:41 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: op?
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: (you and claude)
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Great.... any arm64 support?
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: used a GCD queue to decode textures on all cores available on the machine
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: patience
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: got all the time in the world LOL
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: support for arm? mb you can try https://www.castroelectronica.pt/product/suporte-de-parede-universal-p-mini-pc-router-preto--tooq?utm_source=kelkoopt&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=kelkooclick&utm_source_platform=KelkooGroup&utm_campaign=kelkooclick&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=kelkoopt&utm_source_platform=KelkooGroup&kgclid=CjwKCAjwhZDUBhBGEiwAbi5bjtjJJo59a-VRag3dTgQ8bxqlM_uTd2GLiyJ8I_Z9hfapVSJZXqRm5BoCSkAQAvD_BwE
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we are trying to bring the state of the system to a point where we can start a Metal render conversion
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: with Vulkan?
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course not. withy Metal
[11:44 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with
[11:44 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: even better, thats more work
[11:44 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes and no
[11:44 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: maybe with Claude helping....
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: viewer may grow vulkan ears
[11:45 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I really had to laugh the other day when it offered "do you want me to start developing a Metal renderer" :-)))
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Then your CPU starts overheating
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Next to forest fires we gonna have datacenters exploding trying to make sense of these ancient codebases
[11:46 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but texture decoding is now very fast even in a fresh region, and today we made some other changes. This very meeting used to run at around 18 fps on my machine, today we are at 29
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: nice
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: so clude is better than ll ppl?
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: err or makes better code than.. one should say..
[11:48 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I saw the same thing.
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at some things, yes. It needs quite firm coaching or it spins into the weed
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Given the recent adventures they had into rendering not a high bar to clear, all that got reverted cause it never worked
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: How Andrew?
[11:49 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I also used to see 18 or a bit less FPS and now 29. I had not checked the stats in a while. Nice to see a decent frame rate.
[11:49 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ah, ok - nice
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: oh thats bc dino is not here.. hmm where is dino?
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: She walked by earlier
[11:50 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't see him at all right now. Must be far away from us.
[11:51 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dino can't be that many tris
[11:52 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Found, east of here
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Actually getting 90fps here now finally, but the latest windows updates weren't great to the graphics stack, messed up some things
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: it is changing meshes
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thow some meat to the north
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: nad yeah it is there 204m away
[11:53 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Dino is near the waters edge due north of where we are.
[11:53 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: and moving east.
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Finally got a 180Hz display after using a 60Hz one for 10 years
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: 180Hz to see 18 :)
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: So I can let loose on the FPS throttling
[11:54 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: 60 FPS here (throttled at 60) and on battery power since 11am... Now at 22% battery
[11:55 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what machine are you on?
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: im on limited to 30fps more than enough for opensim and sl
[11:55 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Cuga?
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( in fact many games i play.. 30fps is more than enought )
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Macbook pro M1 Max
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Top of the line in 2020
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( and power bill at end on month thanks )
[11:56 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which may support 90 or 120 Hz max
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: it does 180 Hz
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: but not with HDMI, only DP1.2
[11:57 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but what does the compositor run at? The standard 60Hz?
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: not sure
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: How do I check?
[11:59 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't remember. Unless the app asks for more it will run at 60 I believe.
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Well without the throttle I'm getting 66.2 Hz
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: higher graphics setting
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: I could lower settings and see how far up I can get FPS
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: OK getting 90 FPS with "Mid" graphics setting
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Nice for the stock built in GPU
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: but not as good as an external gaming card
[12:02 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the fps reported by the viewer has nothing to do with what the desktop compositor does. If it runs at 60 it runs as 60 and the output from the app is just wasted effort
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: I see
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Not sure how to check that. The display and comp are connected at 180 HZ fixed
[12:03 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll try and find out till next time
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: I can switch between 60, 120 and 180
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the display settings?
[12:04 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: yeah
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then it should run at the speed you set
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: Oh here is dino
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dino cause a frame drop of 1 fps
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: That was a close call
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok
[12:05 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: "QHD" resolution so that helps
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: 2540x1600
[12:06 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the top of the hour. Any last minute items for today?
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: 2560x1440
[12:06 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope. If anyone has a Mac please give the dev builds a spin
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You got a link to those?
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Link?
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: thx
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yw
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Will give the m4 a whirl next week then, if not remind me :)
[12:08 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: will do
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cook my breakfast egg on it probably hehe
[12:09 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: texture decode in a new location is just a short burst. after that it loads from cache
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: talk with AI :
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: "Yes, a monitor frequency higher than 60 Hz (such as 120 Hz, 144 Hz, or higher) truly matters, but how much you notice it depends on what you do on your computer. It makes motion look much smoother, reduces blur...
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: "- blur is persistence not freqeuncy"
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: "
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: You are exactly right, and that is a crucial distinction. Motion blur is primarily caused by pixel persistence (how long a pixel stays lit on the screen) and response time (how fast a pixel changes color), rather than the refresh rate itsel
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: yeah, it's noticeably smoother even when FPS is the same
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: "
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: duhhh
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: you brain is just compensating for the spent $$$
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: hihihi
[12:11 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Well my brain is doing *less* compensating
[12:11 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: movie runs at a bit over 25Hz
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: actuall less than 25
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: NTSC is even slower than PAL
[12:12 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, ok. never seen any blur in a movie theater
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: 24fps
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: well movies is all abotu "blur"
[12:13 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: What are movie thraters? (jk)
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: changes faster than vision persistence..
[12:14 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 60 Hz is because that is what your incandescent bulbs blink at or 50 Hz
[12:14 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have one 600 meter from home
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: mains freq was very important on TVs
[12:14 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[12:15 PM] Ubit Umarov: sd yes the 60 and 50 mess
[12:15 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure what led lights blink at, but they do blink
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: fro my uses 60Hz is fine.. in fact i reduce gpu to do 30, as i said
[12:16 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: It is based on AC line frequency.
[12:16 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right Ubit
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: 240Hz... yeah.. enjoy yr power bill :)
[12:17 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: I usually throttle in-world, to avoid GPU heating
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: wel in many games even a 5090 does not do even 30fps
[12:17 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: The original NTSC (60 Hz) vs PAL (50 Hz). Makes NTSC faster in terms of frames per second.
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: unless the crtap interpolated ones..
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: and reduced real resolution
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: so ppl by 8k monitors
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: to get all games at most 1080... duhh
[12:18 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))
[12:18 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone must be laughing all the way to the bank
[12:19 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I should go and break some more code with Claude
[12:19 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: 2560x1440 is big enough for me
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: games dont even to that
[12:20 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cheers
[12:20 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: *waves
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: Well I should go too
[12:20 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok cya next week, if not before :)
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @groovyverse.com:8002: *waves and poofs*
[12:21 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Good time to break for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
