[11:19 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello, everyone.
[11:19 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: hi
[11:19 AM] Jagga Meridith: hi
[11:19 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Wow. That was an ordeal getting to the meeting today with osgrid down.
[11:20 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It... could be worse, but let's do the commits first
[11:20 AM] Jagga Meridith: you should get a local account
[11:20 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: you just forgot how to get here :)
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: and yeah osgrid is down again
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: been is last few days
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: soemthing about issues with metadata store
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: guess assets again
[11:21 AM] Jagga Meridith: I didn't do it (this time)
[11:23 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Jagga, The problem was remembering to come here when osgrid was offline. I have an HG LM for here.
[11:23 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: (in my kitely avi account)
[11:24 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Was fiddling with sensors a couple days ago and in reading the manual noticed since 2024 the number of returned items went up from 16 to 32, so that's been adjusted now, thanks Ubit
[11:24 AM] Jagga Meridith: ah
[11:24 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oh, that's interesting.
[11:25 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: yeah that was last week code changes
[11:25 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: we do have that as a option... but did change the default to 32
[11:25 AM] Vincent Sylvester: New Firestorm release is out. Among other things it fixes the teleport history for hypergrid use to properly remember the grid uri
[11:25 AM] Vincent Sylvester: However
[11:26 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Found a bug the other day with that, course of cause I run into that head first
[11:26 AM] Jagga Meridith: uh oh
[11:26 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It checks the uri reported for grid info data and if that fails gives you a popup that is blocking, so you have to dismiss it
[11:26 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Thing is, it checks every entry in the history, including duplicates
[11:26 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: oops i almost did tp back home looking to history
[11:27 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: :)
[11:27 AM] Vincent Sylvester: If you hypergrid a lot and one of those grids is offline you will get tons of popups
[11:27 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Apparently osg doesn't respond to grid info requests on the hg. subdomain so I was getting those popups
[11:27 AM] Vincent Sylvester: They also show up using local standalone for code debug for some reason
[11:28 AM] Vincent Sylvester: TJ is working on it, doing deduplication of the entries and probably making it fail silently
[11:28 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Just code freeze for the release happened a week ago so none of that will be in the release only next beta or so
[11:29 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I probably should have helped him test that some more
[11:30 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: guess my beta i just installed is older than the release now :)
[11:30 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: fs beta
[11:30 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The osgrid welcome message mentioned a new release of FS.
[11:31 AM] Jagga Meridith: just donwloaded 80712
[11:31 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: IIRC, the version number is 7.2.4
[11:31 AM] Jagga Meridith: yup
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: If the popups come up and get annoying, which they likely will cause they reset on teleport, there is a teleport_history.txt in the appdata/roaming/firestorm folder in the respective avatar_name.grid folder. Deleting that file should suffice to get rid of the popups, though it will also remove the teleport history
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Can also just edit the file to remove entries that are failing
[11:33 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I still see people logging in on 7.1.1 as well, anything prior to 80712 should not have that issue either
[11:33 AM] Vincent Sylvester: At some point those older 7.x versions need to get blocked though due to the changes with webrtc
[11:40 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Over the weekend I did manage to get a development environment going for ossearch to transplant the webroot into more basic code structure
[11:40 AM] Vincent Sylvester: That's a bit on the backburner while tracking all the other bugs I crashed into head first
[11:42 AM] Vincent Sylvester: There is a bit of a brain breaker with that since ideally you want to have some moderation tools, but that requires there to be data stored that is connected to regions, which then would be lost if the region deregisters so it has to be decoupled
[11:43 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Which presents its own problem of dead data
[11:43 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Haven't quite worked out an elegant solution for that yet
[11:46 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I found some bugs in the snapshot makers that I did patch up, but I want to look at that again, maybe design a better way to turn that data into xml or maybe change that to json
[11:47 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Lots of structure very little actual data so even gzipped takes up a lot of space
[11:47 AM] Jagga Meridith: json cleaner?
[11:48 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It can get away with less structure so makes smaller files that will parse just fine
[11:49 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Course could also do similar with xml and shorten all the info in there
[11:49 AM] Vincent Sylvester: The big thing is the code itself not being very elegant in creating the structures
[11:50 AM] Vincent Sylvester: There are serializers to turn structures into xml or json based directly on them rather than manually building the xml by adding nodes and such
[11:50 AM] Vincent Sylvester: For the object snapshots this is most important as they are the heaviest
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: our site seems back
[11:54 AM] Vincent Sylvester: yippie
[11:54 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: phone
[11:55 AM] Vincent Sylvester: We'll make a sysadmin outta you at this rate heh :)
[11:55 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm back
[11:55 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :)
[11:56 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Updating mediawiki gave me quite the trouble a few weeks ago, ate the theme
[11:56 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Still not fixed all the way
[11:57 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I was realizing it has been ages since I had to use the command line tool to admin mysql. I had forgotten the name of the program I used to use. Mind you I have often just used phpmyadmin to admin mysql databases.
[11:57 AM] Vincent Sylvester: There is dbeaver, but I think they went subscription crazy too
[11:58 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: For WIndows there is HeidiSQL.
[11:59 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Haven't used that in a decade I think, is it still in active development I wonder
[12:00 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Looks like, neat
[12:00 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It is afaik.
[12:01 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The catch with those db admin tools is they expect to be able to communicate with the database server. The db server wasn't running earlier on the opensimulator.org machine.
[12:02 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Yeah the tables crashed which needs a careful restart or it'll just not load
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: It was slow for months, then fine for a few weeks and now it exploded
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: It can never make up its mind huh
[12:03 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :)
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Good thing we have a mirror of that now, but I worry about mantis, lot harder to back that up
[12:03 PM] Jagga Meridith: dbeaver still free on Mac
[12:04 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: We are just past the hour. Any other issues for today?
[12:04 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Vincent, it isn't just a matter of having a backup of the wiki's db tables?
[12:05 PM] Vincent Sylvester: The wiki mirror just uses the data directly, essentially html to data, which worked quite well minus the things like users and plugins
[12:05 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Mantis structure is a lot harder to parse if I wanted to recreate it just from the html
[12:06 PM] Vincent Sylvester: If I had a backup of the db then yeah not difficult to migrate that through to current versions
[12:06 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Same with mantis I suppose
[12:07 PM] Vincent Sylvester: I been doing a offline backup of mantis every now and then to preserve that in cause it catastrophically explodes or the server goes away
[12:07 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I like using dokuwiki as it doesn't use a database.
[12:08 PM] Vincent Sylvester: The downside is the heavy lean on markdown, which is not everyone's cup of tea
[12:09 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think you run in to markdown for most wikis. Depends on how fancy you need to get with the presentation of information.
[12:10 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Setting up these things and maintaining them isn't that difficult if done regularly and with solid foundations, but you know the state the machine is in, not really salvageable
[12:10 PM] Vincent Sylvester: I could try doing an import of the db from mantis to see if current version will load it
[12:11 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Same with the wiki, though that probably needs to be moved through versions since it changed a lot more in structure
[12:13 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Access to the database should be limited unless you know the credentials for it. Otherwise anyone would be able to grab the tables that hold the user account information.
[12:13 PM] Vincent Sylvester: That's a given
[12:14 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Unless you let ai in lol
[12:14 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Considering how often we hear about major breaches in security with various online services one wonders whether it really is a given or not.
[12:14 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Well technically one is meant to encrypt traffic too and none of the current sites have ssl
[12:15 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Handling account data over that is probably fine, still wouldn't recommend it
[12:15 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: /me nods
[12:16 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Any last minute items for today? I need to be going soon as I have a work thing I need to get on to soon.
[12:16 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm not seeing anyone typing so I will take that as a no.
[12:17 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that the issue with osgrid gets resolved soon.
[12:17 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: With that said, I will wind up todays gathering. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
