[11:00 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr is online. I'll wait a few minutes for her to arrive.
[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. When trying to send an IM to someone who arrived in the grid via HG TP they are seen as not logged in.
[11:05 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if you send one to me does that happen?
[11:05 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Me too
[11:06 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Andrew could message me
[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Mine works too from Andrew
[11:07 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, worked for both of you. It may be something to do with we are in the same Scene.
[11:07 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: me to cujal worked
[11:08 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe, but the console of my grid logged a request for grid info before the message arrived
[11:08 AM] Ubit Umarov: Lyr is having issues with login at oscc to get here
[11:08 AM] Ubit Umarov: she tells us to go ahead
[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ok.
[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Looking at the Changelog for this past week I see just one commit related to reducing the number of saves to inventory.
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there hse is. Hi Lyr
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: she*
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sorry, server reset *chuckles* perhaps
[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello, great to see you
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi Lyr
[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr, no worries. We just started.
[11:11 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The changes aim to reduce what I reported last week on the constant saving of primitems
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I spent more time the past few days tracking things down, running about 20 minutes of sql audit logs to figure out what exactly was causing it
[11:12 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Should I update? Will it boost performance?
[11:13 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some danceballs apparently resetting target omega and particle system constantly and something in the satyr farm crap that meant those were constantly marked as changed even though nothing actually changed
[11:13 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I moved the test to tomorrow and made some further changes of if (changed) nature to prevent calling hasgroupchanged on something that hasn't actually changed
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I actually flush chances to the server less frequent to avoid things like that
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm hoping to see similar results to last week when I did the initial short test as I also included the primitems deduplication code
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it means that in a few instances you might lose a change, but it lowers the writes to the server quite a bit
[11:15 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I tried different settings for that, but ultimately the amount of data it seems to write is not that different over time and large spikes on writes have negative impact on performance if the disk is busy for too long writing all that
[11:16 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will only write the latest status of changes. not the log of changes
[11:16 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sure, but that's still nearly 2gb if I wait 15 minutes, just too much stuff on all those regions
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Fighting symptoms, fixing the root of the problem is going to help everyone not just those tweaking db settings all day, as fun as that is heh
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Sounds like it will be a significant boost for larger, active grids. Maybe nominal boost for less active grids
[11:17 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I changed it from flush every 10 seconds to every 30 seconds, so you get 1/3 of the writes
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: By thursday should have some data to look at. If nothing blows up then I think that's going to be the way forward. The current way of delete everything and insert is silly to begin with as you'd normally not do that if you just want to delete a single item in a prim
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That needs some specific looking at whether that can be accomplished directly, but just not rewriting 150+ animations every time a target omega change is called is a start
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Since we don't have tests outside of subjecting the poor users to those fun things I'm not really one for changing the whole thing too much in one go
[11:22 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the flushing to disk can be configured per simulator,
[11:23 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is that a config setting for Robust?
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no in opensim.ini as far as I remember
[11:23 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, Right. If you change too much at once you don't know which change had the biggest impact.
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hang on
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have tried a number of combinations already, but in the end the amount of data doesn't change all that much over a given time period, so tweaking that doesn't help much in this case. Just too much stuff for that to really show up in the logs
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: To put it into perspective in 22 minutes of audit logs I gathered
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: 1216363 total lines 367108 insert into primitems 79187 delete from primitems 158396 replace into prims 79197 replace into primshapes
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Rarely seen a log file increase in size that quickly
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So clearly reducing the inserts will help. Have not looked at what it does with prims, but the changes to hasgroupchanged not firing every time some prim data is set to something it is already set to should reduce that
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: issue is that linksets save is very basic
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: it saves everything on the linkset
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If one tiny thing has changed the whole sog is marked as changed and written yes
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: so even a small change on a prim will force a full linkset save
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: there is a cooldown time to reduce the rate, but it wll happen
[11:28 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have to dig through the audit log more and find more items, but I did go through the hasgroupchanged references and found a few places to add a check so it wouldn't mark a sog as changed when the data put in it is the same as to what's already there, which should help somewhat
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: backup console comand does the pending saves, and shutdow also
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MinimumTimeBeforePersistenceConsidered = 10
[11:29 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MaximumTimeBeforePersistenceConsidered = 100
[11:29 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: these are the defaults
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Like set text, set color or texture things to what's already present on the sop, which normally would call a change even if the data is the same
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: pims inventorys did have a flag to skip its save, if not changed
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: buit that flag had to be disabled because in some cases a needed save never happened
[11:30 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I set MinimumTimeBeforePersistenceConsidered to 30 to lower writes to database
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: on that commit i tried to cover those cases, and did let flag work again
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I did pull that change in, so we'll see if something explodes :)
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: MinimumTimeBeforePersistenceConsidered should be as hig as possible
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll wait to update :)
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: if you never forget to stop the region doing shutdown :)
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The higher you set that the worse that link delete issue gets though
[11:34 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: There are always tradeoffs
[11:35 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: given you can configure it per simulator, you may want to set it pretty high for slow simulators and lower for busy ones where there are a lot of changes that must be saved
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: well temporary objects removal may be impacted also
[11:37 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: but thats several minutes time scale... already a bit 2 high
[11:38 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: biggest impact is if you just kill the simulator, then changes will be lost
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:38 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or more changes rather
[11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that could happen any time a simulator is killled even without the recent changes.
[11:39 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely but you will lose more changes if the interval is set high
[11:39 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless it is irrelevant changes like that dance ball thing
[11:40 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: True
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess no one did consider that ppl decided to add 1k items per prim inventory ( sl as a limit, and 1k prims per linkset
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: the old opensim No Limits Full righs nonsense still hidding everywhere\
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( i did got got nasty feedback when i made some permissions work )
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well I think the bigger issue is that a few lsl things setting prim parameters have no "is this already the case" checks so they just re-set the same thing over and over each time marking the whole linkset as changed. A few functions do have that check, but not all
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: and will get if i touch those things...
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Understanding permissions ought to be grounds for a Phd title
[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc i could tell like a game dev did... buy a intel ultra 1000 cpu ... and then you may not need some limits
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I should find some software to generate flowcharts from some of the code to get some picture on whether it can even be simplified at all
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc it may take a few years for intel to release that cpu...
[11:45 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. Jagga has a question for us. Over to you, Jagga.
[11:45 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm terrible at landscaping so I've been writing bots
[11:45 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: found an old bug
[11:45 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: in LSL_Stub.cs [MethodImpl(MethodImplOptions.AggressiveInlining)] public void llModifyLand(int action, int brush) { m_LSL_Functions.llModifyLand(action, brush); } in LSL_Constants.cs public const int LAND_SMALL_BRUSH = 1; public const int LAND_MEDIUM_BRUSH = 2; public const int LAND_LARGE_BRUSH = 3; llModifyLand(LAND_LEVEL,0);# displaces a 2*2 llModifyLand(LAND_LEVEL,1); # displaces a 4*4 llModifyLand(LAND_LEVEL,2); # displaces a 8*8
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Isn't that already on mantis?
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: i did answer to that on mantis, didnt i ?
[11:46 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: probably too late to fix it, so I've been hard coding
[11:46 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: yup, just noting it here
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: sl wiki tells to just use the numbers
[11:47 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't immediately see a problem with the above. Care to point out the problem, or reference the mantis #?
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: possible there are scripts using those, that wold break
[11:48 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: 9216
[11:48 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: yeah, land flattened would break
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have that ancient terraformer script
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: seems to work allright
[11:49 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Jagga. Helpful for anyone reading the chat log of this meeting.
[11:50 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: biggest problem in terraforming are sim borders
[11:51 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I use the flatten brush to work from highest elevation to lower going down on the border
[11:52 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm doing huge hills. the brushes aren't that sensitive
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: that those will not work on the other sim
[11:52 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and from the sim with highest elevation to to the one with the lowest (left or right) with a small flatten brush
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: unlike viewer comand
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Region borders are only a problem if you create them, just make the region bigger :)
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can always split the heightmap later
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's what I did last time I had to make a cluster of regions with terrain
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Granted that only works if your mountains are not as big or you have something that can work the r32 files
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not so practical if you want to make changes years after
[11:54 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: True
[11:54 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: which reminds me...is there a reason why maptiles might fail to update?
[11:55 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have some older patches in the terrain that never will smooth - must be garbage in the terrain map somehow
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Way the current system works when robust gets the tiles is a bit of wishful thinking and prayer that it doesn't receive data while trying to write it or do you mean the regions themselves?
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The minimap and world map are cached in the viewer, it takes some time before it attempts to fetch new ones for that
[11:56 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: that's probably it
[11:56 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: restarting the viewer will fix that problem :-)
[11:57 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Dear friends, I need to step away soon and have an announcement on Mal's memorial at Hypergrid Safari
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Even with the new system I been testing for months now I still see some tiles just not appear, haven't quite worked out why since the new system is supposed to wait for a while before attempting to parse the data. Suspect there is still something with dotnet fileinfo caching going sideways
[11:57 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: The HG Safari is at Noon Pacific / SLT and at this location hop://craft-world.org:8002/Inworld%20Review/190/272/23
[11:57 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thank you *hugs all around*
[11:57 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Lyr. I was just about to post that info (after you had reminded me about it). :)
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: thanks :)
[12:00 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: One other item that might be of interest, but not directly related to Open Simulator, is that on Oct. 1st at 1pm PT Phillip Rosedale will be holding a community conversation and Q&A while they test out their new WebRTC voice servers.
[12:00 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yup
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Early announcement called it a "load test" then they changed it to Q&A
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: prob both
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: they are a few years old by now... hardly new :)
[12:01 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: gavin if you have that terraformer script handy could you send it over?
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: well more than a year..
[12:02 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll send it once back on the grid. it is not in my suitcase
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: lets see if ll can get servers with compatible latency at aws
[12:02 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have doubts
[12:02 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: mine work but I'm still workimg on diagonals
[12:02 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, is that a script where you sit on a prim while you make it move over the land to shape it?
[12:03 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: that;s land flattener. Mine is a crawler
[12:03 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[12:04 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: The ancient script I have was meant to shape the land by moving the prim around while you sat on it.
[12:04 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: ah ok
[12:04 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: that;s not a bad idea
[12:04 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have an unrelated question
[12:04 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you want really pretty and detailed terrain you have to go the image import route either way as the brushes and viewer controls for manipulating terrain are not as detailed as the heightmap can technically represent
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: hmm think someone had a nice tractor to do that
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure there has been more than one scripted method for altering terrain.
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: What is your question, Cuga?
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Does the heightmap export preserve same bit depth as imported heightmap TIFF?
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: can the depth be adjusted
[12:06 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: For anything but r32 you get approximations
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[12:06 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Most of the normal image formats also cutoff at certain heights
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: would be nice to have option to export to TIFF same quality
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but this is edge case
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: not priority
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have some code to change the tiff loader to accept 32bit depth
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can import, its the export I was having challenge with
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I['ll try r32
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's not the difficult, but very manual loading the files basically bit by bit at that point since the native loader doesn't go up to that bit depth
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: export via viewer or command line?
[12:08 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: command line was the only methos that works for me. works quite well
[12:08 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: viewer feature broken
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: viewer upload and download are really slow cause they work on udp I think or something funky like that
[12:08 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hmmm, ok?
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Basically sends it piece by piece which takes forever
[12:08 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for 8x8 it never finishes
[12:09 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but its ok, happy with command line
[12:09 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's 64 regions when a single region can take over 5 minutes if the heightmap is really complex
[12:09 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I waited 8 hours
[12:09 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: prolly just times out after a certain point
[12:09 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I ma pretty sure the viewer code will only handle 1024x1024 simulator configs meaning 4x4
[12:09 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: At that point the viewer might have killed the coroutine or something yeah
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh ok, that makes sense
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Quick question on another subject. I never reached MrBlue on that Bullet-related Mantis. Has there been any movement on that? Should I still try to reach him?
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: still waiting yr feedback
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, I'll try to reach out
[12:10 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If he doesn't respond guess we have to assume bullet as unmaintained unless someone else wants to take over
[12:11 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Why assume that?
[12:11 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hasn't really seen much change. You reported there being some bugs and him looking into those over a year ago and nothing happened
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Nothing happened bc he spent some time looking and fix would require big deep dive with new code
[12:12 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have to leave guys. Will get that terraformer to you Cuga before I log
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for Jagga
[12:12 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Gavin. Thanks for coming.
[12:12 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: ty
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Gavin
[12:13 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: jagga - sorry
[12:13 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sure, but at the end of the day now you got someone that said they wanted to fix bullet and we have to defer them to the maintainer which can't be reached it seems
[12:13 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[12:13 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: You mean my Bullet Mantis or the new one?
[12:13 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: At some point, especially when someone comes along saying they are looking into things perhaps it's time to ask them if they would be willing to maintain it or at least update it
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If I knew C well enough to read the Bullet connector, I woul offer to take it, but I don't have those skills
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Mr Blue does come in and fix when there is a priority issue
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the new Mantis is a bit flaky
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But I will try to reach MrBlue and clarify
[12:15 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Sorry, I've been super busy, delay is my fault
[12:15 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There are a number of open issues on mantis regarding bullet along with the stuff you found. I'd say one could expect that to be looked into at some point, but I see no movement on it in months or even years
[12:16 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can't call that maintained really
[12:16 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will try to reach him, and try to brush up on my C skills :)
[12:17 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Perhaps the person that posted those newer binaries has interest in looking at the wrapper as well
[12:17 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm all in favor of bringing in someone with skills
[12:17 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But his reasoning in the Mantis was a bit questionable
[12:18 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: "Ignore small movements" is already handled well in Bullet, better actually than ubODE
[12:18 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Beside Ubit I think you know the most about bullet hence why you are probably best to try an orchestrate that whole situation :)
[12:19 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: There are use cases that work on one engine or the other. I dont think we can ignore Bullet
[12:19 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and still widely used
[12:19 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I like having the option as well, though I have seen lots of crashes from viewers to regions with it so I tend not to use it
[12:19 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: My region has only crashed on ubODE, not Bullet
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: multiple times
[12:20 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Try region crossing with complex mesh vehicles and multiple seated avatars, it really dislikes that
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don't have any region crossings :)
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: lol
[12:21 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Many thanks!
[12:21 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll reach out to him and one of us will update the mantis soon :)
[12:21 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If he doesn;t answer, I will
[12:22 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sounds good
[12:22 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: He's more qualified, but I'll make sure it happens
[12:23 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.
[12:24 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Really? I thought you were Andrew :)
[12:24 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent I'll probably reach out to you on IRC, I need to set up nginx and solve that pesky HTTP killer requests, still coming in
[12:25 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That still going on huh, yeah would love to know what weird bot has it out to get you
[12:25 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, :)
[12:26 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the hour and a half mark. Anything more for today?
[12:27 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I sent you the search stuff over discord, take a look at some point if you find some time Andrew
[12:27 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, ty. I did notice you sent me some info. Finding time is a bit of an issue.
[12:27 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: :)
[12:28 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: As there doesn't appear to be anything more for today I will call this meeting to a close.
[12:28 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
