[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: joe has just told us:
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: [11:08:48] Joe Magarac: Some notes on motion extrapolation. Objects with physics don't really come to rest and have zero velocity. Velocity sent by the server bottoms out around 0.001 m/sec. Then, after 3 secs of no update, the viewer times out the linear motion and stops it. Only for linear motion. Rotational motion goes on forever, which is how windmills and such work.
[11:11 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I have to be bug-compatible with existing viewers.
[11:11 AM PT] Joe Magarac: There's one commented-out line that makes windmills work.
[11:11 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The 3-second timer does not kill rotation.
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i told that we do stop them, even try to handle some jitter that happens on some collisions..
[11:12 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Let me check more on OS.
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm? what you mean bug compatible ?
[11:12 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I've been watching avatars on SL, which are physical. OS has non-physical avatars.
[11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They can sit there an quiver for a long time
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only sitting ones
[11:12 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I have a lot more logging now and am looking at strange cases. The routine stuff works.
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but what bug compatible?
[11:13 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is all very interesting to watch of some griefer has filled a rez zone with shit that rolls off it and fills the region
[11:14 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if*
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ahh and region does try to send a Zero velocity all the time sometning does stop
[11:14 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Nonzero velocity for stationary objects, for example.
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we do have that as i said
[11:14 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I will check that for OS.
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or things would not be working :)
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and what about the avatars?
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sl sitting avatars are not fully physical either
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think they only colide with terrain
[11:16 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right. Sitting SL avatars take the properties of what they are sitting on.
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so you can use your head as a sky
[11:16 AM PT] Joe Magarac: If they are on a physical vehicle, the avatar is still physical, although a child prim.
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: here sitting avatars just have no physics
[11:17 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It still collides.
[11:17 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Ah.
[11:17 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In SL, you have to displace car seats 1m up, and animate 1m down, to prevent the legs of the avatar from lifting the car off the ground.
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sky? ski :)
[11:18 AM PT] Lyr Lobo smiles
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well no need need here
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Skyski sounds like a Russian name
[11:18 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: INCOMPATIBLE!
[11:18 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: hehe
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I don't actually have any special casing for OS vs SL in Sharpview.
[11:19 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: or inconceivable
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: joe that is region side..
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It understands large regions, but if SL did a large region the way OS does, it world work.
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you can't see if soemthing has physics or not
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: True. I don't see physics in the viewer.
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well sl viewers mostly do large regions
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only some tiny bits of code assume 256m
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tools floater has that all over it
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: see terrain rendering just did work
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( weel had to add a converter to textures sizes power og 2 )
[11:21 AM PT] Joe Magarac: True. The region messages tell the viewer how big the region is. Size info is optional and if not present, assume 256m.
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well that is our side extension :)
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that was a part where they did assume 256m
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but 256m does make sense...
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is a simple distributed scene thing
[11:22 AM PT] Joe Magarac: 256m^2 is about what a CPU could handle a decade ago.
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: with fixed size region
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: intel did try a variable size model
[11:23 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Anyway, I'm doing OK. I'm just working through strangeness in logged data.
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ll just went for fixed size of 256m world particion
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for mainland, ofc
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we only wnet for large regions bc of bad region crossings :)
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: before that we had Megas...
[11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In 2003 that was a very large area to handle
[11:24 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I wish mixed big and small regions worked well. There are places on the OS map where there's a big region for flying and driving ringed by smaller private regions.
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a twisted way of doing the same
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well a ll viewert issue is that a region can only have 8 imediate neibours
[11:25 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Ah. I don't have that limitation.
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you add more, you get in the regionn and die getting out :)
[11:25 AM PT] Joe Magarac: All I ask is that region sizes be multiples of 64 meters and aligned on 64 meters.
[11:26 AM PT] Joe Magarac: And I could change that.
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well its 16m
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ie 1 terrain patch
[11:27 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Ah. I can change that, The splicer for regions actually works in units of 1 meter.
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for grids we have the limitation of alignment on a 256m size grid
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: terrain patchs are the most defining thing on minimal size
[11:28 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Joe: How about non-square regions?
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did loe my 64m test region
[11:28 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Not a problem for me.
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: back in aurora days
[11:28 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Look at "TSim Open Skies" on the map.
[11:28 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Does that actually work?
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well some opensim code does assum square..
[11:28 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: aurora...
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think also viewers code
[11:29 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such unstable times
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It's bordered by 13 small regions on the west side.
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and ofc a big mess on map manegement
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: And Romantica is bordered by small regions.
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well ppl forget they can only have 1 region per side :(
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said it mostly works.. until you try to tp out
[11:30 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I think that's just a limitation of the C viewers.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: then the viewer blows up with seg fault :)
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they have a fixed array of pointers to the regions
[11:30 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: with 8 entries
[11:31 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I don't have that limitation.
[11:31 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Are any of those regions in OS actually live?
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well about code changes..
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah there where some...
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: next issue?
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:31 AM PT] Joe Magarac: If I try to go the regions I mentioned, they're down.
[11:31 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK, next issue.
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap osgrid region came and go :)
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok.. code changes.. lets see
[11:33 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whole lot of cosmetics
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: made several changes to EstateDataRemoteConnector, namely not having LoadEstateSettings fail be a fatal fail
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that was something i added in 2018, only now reported as a issue :)
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so i did replace but some warnings..
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: by,,
[11:34 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like a good change
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: make some changes to the handling od Path strings on last SSL code
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fixing mantis 9164
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: alos fixed mantis 9157... we had forgotten trailing '\' on some rest service urls
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: err '/'
[11:38 AM PT] Web Rain: Hi there :)
[11:38 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 'ello
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: added handler for GetLocalRegionByName GridServicesConnector
[11:39 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hello *smiles*
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: unlike normal GetRegionByName that does not try to resolve HG
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did add it to local service.. now also to the connector..
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only for gatekeeper use
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but usefull if you want to run gatekeeper on a diferent instance
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also made some changes to PresenceServerPostHandler removing a handler that has no business been there
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh did accept the patchs from adil aka webrain, with certs conversion code
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( the ones with those path string issues ;) )
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and well some cosmetic changes
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( like using dotnet 8 'sugar' )
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is that a specific version?
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: what specific version?
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dotnet 8 'sugar'
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: > 8
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... sw has all kinds of codename these days
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact is c# >= 10 or so
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah dotnet version basicly ships with a diferent c# version also.. pfff
[11:45 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is sugar the code name or by sugar do you mean some optimized code
[11:46 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: makes the CPU run really fast :)
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oops dotnet 8 is c" 12
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: .. or features?
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: c# 12
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sugar is used for things mostly done by the compiler
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless the CPU is running a "might do" loop
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i most cases no real impact on final code
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: others are like compiler level "macros"
[11:47 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ah ok, a compiler thing
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: most async code is like that
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: compiler completly rewrites a async method
[11:47 AM PT] Web Rain: about the converter i test it now in an online standalone under ubuntu and there is a problem with the permissions :( the converter work and successfully converted the let's encrypt certs
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in a very twisted way
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ppl told there where issues wtih the path
[11:48 AM PT] Web Rain: but requiere that opensim run in sudo mode first time
[11:49 AM PT] Web Rain: yes a had the same
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: paths.. so i c changed thehir code
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: outh my keyb is insane :)
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: my changes are on last commit "cosmetics"
[11:50 AM PT] Web Rain: is this region HG enabled? i set a fully() SSLed instance if you want to test things
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a more trivial example of that sugar is replacing
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: return new List();
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: by return [];
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the compiler knows how to convert [] to what is needed
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and less things to type :)
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm i did not update this one
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well think those where all the changes on code :)
[11:53 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thx for explaining sugar :)
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah not as good as on the song :)
[11:55 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tested Opensim on the newly released macOS 15.0
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tnqnXJl9qE)
[11:55 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Everything works. No need to rebuild the unmanaged libs.
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: cool
[11:55 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: which were built under macOS 14.5
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewers works too
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah, surprisingly smooth transition to major version release
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with deployment target of?
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 10.15
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have an old laptop with partitions for 10.15 and 11.0, so I can test those
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think the cutoff is 10.13
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for which?
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when libs will not run
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( Lyr retrung [] )
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ahh
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oops
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I did specify 10.15 in my configs
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is not 32-bit support any more
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for the ones I built
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( Lyr return [] )
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( see this kinda sugar does not work.. )
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: dotnet 6/8 requires a 64 bit Mac
[11:58 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Missing a ; there ;)
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ahh that was it
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( Lyr return []; )
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm nahh
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually the cutoff might be 1015. since the last one to have 32-bit support is 10.14
[11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 10.15
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think that was the oldest supported in the SDK that built both architectures
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pure 32-bit HW was ended in 2006 or something
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: makes sense Cuja
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ubit loves binaries with multiple architectures
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm?
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i do?
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: jk :)
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: mac's "universal" architecture
[12:01 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: DING DING DING, my sarcasm detector went off!
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you foam at the mouth whever I mention it
[12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Who knows how long platform independence is going to last at the rate critical parts are being gutted out lately
[12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Already looking at a lot of work replacing deprecated things
[12:02 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: there was a point when some Mac binaries had 3 architectures embedded
[12:03 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: our Call for Proposals is open at the OpenSimulator Community Conference https://conference.opensimulator.org/call-for-proposals/
[12:03 PM PT] animatsalt resident: Me too.
[12:04 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Have a great day!
[12:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Looks good Lyr!
[12:05 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Thanks! Everyone is welcome
[12:05 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: https://conference.opensimulator.org/
[12:06 PM PT] Web Rain: can we invite some crypto devs and pro to talk about the crypto world ?
[12:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why?
[12:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just run twitter without adblocker and you'll be spammed down with everything crypto imaginable
[12:07 PM PT] Web Rain: there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about cryptos...
[12:08 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: frankly I don't see it as particularly relevant to opensim, but that's just me
[12:08 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: word
[12:09 PM PT] Web Rain: many think cryptos are something bad or even criminal while they are a solution for many aspects of the HG economy
[12:09 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it's an Opensimulator conference, not crypto conference
[12:09 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We already have a commerce system that works across the hypergrid though
[12:09 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but youre welcome to submit your ideas, the staff will make that decision
[12:09 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Mind you it's not the greatest piece of software, but it does work
[12:10 PM PT] Web Rain: yes but do you want an empty economy panel like past year ?
[12:10 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Preferably over one stacked with crypto stuff if I'm honest
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: there where some presentations in past even abotu using crypto currents and nfblabla
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sure there is an AI economy out there :-)
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: currencies...
[12:10 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Fuel for the fire that is the "everything should be free" crowd
[12:11 PM PT] Web Rain: hihihi the world economy is driven by IAs
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: more like, "oh my phone died.. i lost all my money "
[12:11 PM PT] Web Rain: servers are not free vincent
[12:11 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Duh
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or the internet went down (because of war) I lost all my savings
[12:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: evne jsut simple forest fire..
[12:13 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[12:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: all dead.. no power no net no water. even no mobile
[12:13 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Best invest in chickens
[12:13 PM PT] Web Rain: hahahaha
[12:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh one lost 20000 chickens to the fire
[12:14 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: chickens, salt and fishing rods
[12:14 PM PT] Web Rain: invest in love is better just because never die ^^
[12:14 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyway :-)
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah anyway :)
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I should leave it at tha
[12:15 PM PT] Web Rain: like the HG , is something made with love and passion and as you see we still here
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a great week all
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:15 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Have a great week!
[12:16 PM PT] Web Rain: let's back to opensim ^^ as i said i set an SSLed instance if you want to test things
[12:16 PM PT] Web Rain: at now the map work some times with hop:// and sometimes with https://
[12:17 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: hop is a fs thing
[12:17 PM PT] Web Rain: hop://hg-economy.cc:9002/Crypto Islands 3/123/129/23
[12:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: map search code will try to convert to http:// form
[12:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: internally we now only use http(s)
[12:18 PM PT] Web Rain: may or may not work i don't know why... maybe hardcoded http
[12:18 PM PT] Web Rain: on the viewer side
[12:19 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on map, kinda works
[12:19 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: think i added hops ??
[12:19 PM PT] Web Rain: TP works in both direction but the HG connector still under http... hardcoded
[12:19 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on chat.. it fails more... bc of viewer code
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: robust ssl needs a lot more work
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: a big pain :)
[12:21 PM PT] Web Rain: i tested the thing in local with selfsigned cert and seem working
[12:21 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i made regions work a few years ago
[12:21 PM PT] Web Rain: i just TP from my sim to here ^^
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc using external tools to make the certs
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:23 PM PT] Web Rain: testing im
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other issue?
[12:23 PM PT] Web Rain: ok thank you alot :)
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( before web crashes the region.. ;) )
[12:23 PM PT] Web Rain: no i still experimenting things
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok hope to see you all next week
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:24 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc all :)
[12:24 PM PT] Web Rain: have a nice week
