Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13

[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I didn't remember about the clocks changing this past weekend or I would have mentioned it last week.
[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The time changes always throw some people off. I'll bet there will be at least one person showing up an hour late.
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Looks like Ubit may not be joining us again today unless he will be here later.
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Despite the time change we have a good number of people here today.
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The past few days I've been having another look at the Birds module code.
[11:11] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: no george today.
[11:11] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: This is the first time today I have not been an hour late
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've made some changes to it and how it goes about getting its configuration settings.
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I still have some additional changes to make but I think it is safer to deploy on a larger scale now. It used to cause problems on another grid I support that has a large number of regions.
[11:13] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I hate Daylight Wastings Time and apologize for the stupidity of this and the problems it causes everyone.
[11:13] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: the bird module, does it have penguins??
[11:13] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: like @kayaker
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It could be used with Penguins if you wanted to do that.
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is called a Birds module but it can be used for things other than birds.
[11:14] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I want to add some settings to control the vertical and horizontal range of the "birds". I could see the module being used for a school of fish.
[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I used the bird modules for a swarm of stars on one of my test Sci-fi sims
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's an interesting use of the module.
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Once I've finished what I want to do with the birds module there is another couple of modules I'll be working on.
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Has anyone seen any problems with maptiles going missing in a grid running 0.9?
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ah, Ubit is on his way.
[11:19] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: is it a known problem, that i can't really address hypergrid teleports to large regions? (x-y coords) ?
[11:19] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: in .8x yes that was an issue, does not seem to be an issue in current .9x
[11:19] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as far as map tiles, I have not seen them go missing
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have a report of a grid where maptiles used to appear on the map but they have stopped showing up. The grid configuration hasn't change so I'm not sure why they would have stopped appearing.
[11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have seen the viewer forget them and need to clear cache to get them back
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:20] mayLee Jun: zalus plaza was not showing on map for a few days
[11:20] mayLee Jun: didn't effect tp
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, yes. That is why I cleared cache earlier today. I'll be checking that other grid later to see if the maptiles reappear.
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well I have seen an instance that they vanish now that I think of it, but what caused it was , NO maptile refresh
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: mayLee, ok. I was thinking that meant it had gone off line but that isn't the case if you could still TP to it.
[11:22] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: generate map from the console and they came back, set the timer for map tiles back to something like 1200 and they never vanished again
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The grid is set to not refresh maptiles but the code is supposed to generate maptiles when the region starts. The regions are restarted on a regular basis so the maptiles should still be showing up.
[11:22] mayLee Jun: well I could tp off and on, one time I couldn't at all so dan banner tp, said no problem then I could tp
[11:23] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: right I personally think the viewers are dropping the cahched map
[11:23] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not the server
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, That's possible.
[11:23] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so when you update it , it gets a new timestamp
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: possible maptiles where cleaned up and the region never restarted since bf that
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll be checking the maptiles directory and file/dir permissions.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: i mean in zaius case
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ah, ok.
[11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: exactly ubit
[11:25] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: which why setting them back to autogenerate on a schedule fixed the issue
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I may do that to see if that gets the maptiles to reappear. The reason I have the files set to not auto-refresh is that Warp3D is being used. It is still known to leak memory.
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: at start of last week meeting some odd things where said... one was that the work on number of prim sides had be reverted.. It was not,, it was improved removing some old bad code i did miss, bc i tested using other code path...
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The regions are restarted on a regular basis so the memory leak will not be much of a problem.
[11:28] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if you turn off render mesh with warp the memory leak does not seem to be there ...
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, ok. Interesting. Either no leak or slower leak. That provides a direction of where to look in the code for a problem.
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I missed a word in the changelog. The information about the change was corrected later in the meeting.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: another odd thinh was some suprise about a unknown name on a commit.. that is nothing new on that... we do accept contribtions in form a git patchs, and that way the author name does show up on commit.. Nothing new on that.. the new was someone being surprised with that
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It was a nice surprise to see someone else having made a change. You and Melanie are about the only names showing up in the git log these days.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: there was some confusion about a timeout remevoed on a thread of floatsam cache.. that was only threads watchdog timeout nothing else
[11:32] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ^^
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: some operations on large regions can keep a thread busy for a lot of time and was killed by the watchdog
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: and yes a few persons did tried to correct the ideas but where kinda ignored on the noise..
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I heard of someone keeping a thread busy in a region recently. It was due to an infinite loop in a script. :)
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thinking of scripting, was it you Bill that had been testing YEngine?
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: silence ?
[11:37] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: yengine? whats that?
[11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, have you run across any other issues with it?
[11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: other than it being a little more strict, with LSL and not having some of the casts that Xengine has(which is minor) it runs very very well
[11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and the discovery of the missing cast was a bad scripting decision on my part anyway
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, ok.
[11:41] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Can someone help me find a piece of code in the OpenSim sources? I'd like to look at what runs when you multiply a vector by a rotation.
[11:41] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In a script.
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What are you looking for Kayaker?
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: we use libomv math on that
[11:42] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I want to see how the vector times quad multiply is implimented.
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, do you have copy of libOpenMetaverse?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: sources of that are on libomv
[11:42] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have the OpenSim sources on my system here...
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: and not that in not a math multiply. it is a rotation
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, https://github.com/openmetaversefoundation/libopenmetaverse
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: note...
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, libomv is a separate repo
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: and think you do not want to mess with that :p
[11:44] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: OpenSim builds with libomv binaries?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well i should.. there is a little faster way of doing that.. but minor
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: yes, we do use libomv for several things
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: vector math is one
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: lludp packets encode/decode is another..
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: etc
[11:45] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: When I build opensim on my system, how does it get the libomv code?
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Unless the script parser gets in the way and doesn't like a vector math expression.
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: look to bin/
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: the dlls are there
[11:46] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So libomv binaries only are in that source tree for OpenSim.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: There are four dlls in bin/ that came from libomv
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: The OS source tree only has libomv binaries. The sources are in the other repository.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: do not forget this is C# binaries are not as native cpu dlls
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: but well irrelevant.. we do use them :p
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: one day i may replace that math by .net4.6 vector math.. but a pain
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and .net still does not seem that good so far
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: why do want to see that ugly math ?
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, one program that is in the libomv tree that is very useful for some types of debugging is WinGridProxy.exe
[11:52] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: A year or two I reported a bug with llGetCameraRot in 0.8.2 which has been fixed, but I still see a small error when I use it to aim in weapons scripts. (I do not see this error in SL or IW).
[11:52] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am hypothesizing that the error is failure to use doubles in intermediate calculations in vector multiplies.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: im almost sure its not from that
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: or everything would be very odd
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: no one uses doubles on this
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: doubles are out of "game" simulation
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, take a look in the directory OpenMetaverseTypes. There are four .cs files whose name starts with Vector
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I do see other odd things, even in the built tools, some prim torture settings have very low floating point resolutions that look like intermediate calculation errors to me.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I just had a quick look at Vector2.cs and I see only references to float so you may be on to something there.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: as i said no one uses doubles on this context
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: this is not a real physics simulation.. is a "gaming" model simulation
[11:56] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: :-)
[11:56] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Andrew: was that Vector2.cs in OpenSim or libomv?
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, libomv
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: someone is past did forgot that and made lsl use doubles.. but that is just a waste
[11:57] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm thinking things like inverting a matrix really should do intermediate calculations in doubles even if all your data types are floats.
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: again.. not in gaming math
[11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: If viewer resolution on this math stops at X it can't be pushed to Y was my belief . So if the render engine, ie the viewer does not have the type of resolution that you are looking for, even having them in the code will not provide any advantages .. (I might be wrong)
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: only later versions of simd instruction did add doubles suport.. but no one uses then
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, do you know how .NET 4.6 handles vector math? Does it do all the calcs in float?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well we dont use simd.. was just a example
[11:59] George Equus: Ohhh-.. you started an hour ago right?
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome to near the end of the meeting. :)
[11:59] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llGetCameraRot used in this game for a toy weapon is off by 0.25 degrees. That may not sound like much but that is 15cm at 20 meters. It makes RP weapons frustrating to use, and this does not happen in IW or SL.
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: this meetings as a lot of opensim should be in UTC
[12:01] George Equus: !!! second that!