Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18

[10:59] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: usually by the third try i find a seat that works for me, lol
[11:00] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I thought you didn't like sitting, Don
[11:00] loup dupont: je suis francais
[11:01] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: somebody gotta stand up for people, might as well be me yeah?
[11:01] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[11:04] Snakedance Moonwing: hello people i never seen before o.O
[11:04] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: =)
[11:04] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: every friend you got, you had to meet for the first time before they became friends, so it's all good, Welcome
[11:05] Snakedance Moonwing: is a meeting of some kind?
[11:06] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, weekly development meeting for the open simulator
[11:06] George Equus: Yes Snake  :) every Tuesday
[11:06] Snakedance Moonwing: oh a dev meeting
[11:06] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: all welcome to come
[11:06] Snakedance Moonwing: i do not belong here then lol
[11:06] George Equus: Don't say that...
[11:06] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: you can stay if want
[11:07] George Equus: I didn't think I did.. Dev meet yiks but turned out to be good info
[11:07] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: just isn't the most exciting of meetings, usually, lol
[11:07] George Equus: Being informed never hurts
[11:07] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: look at it this way, you in a room with a lot of good people, it's gotta be good right?
[11:07] George Equus: even if you don't always understand discussion hehe
[11:07] Snakedance Moonwing: that depends :D
[11:08] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: and Kayaker does his booty dance near the end of the meeting, that's always good to wait for
[11:08] George Equus: If said ppl had a bathe recently? Snake
[11:08] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ......./snickers
[11:08] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: HEY, i took my monthly shower just a couple of hours ago!
[11:08] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: rofl
[11:09] George Equus: Me too  :) so we are good to go
[11:09] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: but no deorderant, so stay at least one seat away,,,,just sayin
[11:09] Snakedance Moonwing: room full of devs should fix this bench me thinks :P
[11:10] George Equus: Agree Snake
[11:10] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ROFL, i was wondering when someone would point that out!!!!
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org thinks Kayaker is happy today.
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, those are pumpkins.
[11:11] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i dont think his pumpkins are "fresh" anymore, they seem to be shedding
[11:11] George Equus: and wear black trousers tonight :)
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I thought they were just smily faces. :)
[11:11] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: My teleport tone was running when I teleported here, the script cannot run to turn them off.
[11:11] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[11:12] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: .../notices no one is sitting next to kayaker today......< rofl >
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Scripts are enabled here.
[11:12] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: kayaker - appears a bit like using altspace vr emoji. no offense tho.
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes, he often sits by himself.
[11:13] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: We already had the frequent shower comments....
[11:13] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: reminds me of that old spaceballs line, "kayaker the punpkin hut , locked himself inside his limo today and then ate himself to death"......" and now Rocko's review of rocky.....5000.......Rocko?"
[11:14] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: tough crowd....tough crowd
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:15] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: I do have a question, about a problem i encountered
[11:15] George Equus: See Snake... very technical so far
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Don, perhaps the humour would be better received if it was put in code related terms. ;)
[11:15] Snakedance Moonwing: yes very technical lol
[11:15] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: involving highly twisted and manipulated torus shapes and textures
[11:15] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: LOL
[11:15] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: sorry - don't recall the spaceballs ref. pumpkin hut related to 'pizza the hut'?
[11:16] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, it was indeed a bad pun
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes
[11:16] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i made a xmas tree ribbon out of a torus < one sec phone >
[11:16] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: ty (^_^)
[11:18] George Equus: Just noticed I have Voice enabled... it comes and goes, mostly absent.
[11:18] George Equus: FS latest...
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not much new in code development this past week. Just a few changes regarding avatar controls and movement.
[11:19] George Equus: Anyone else experience loss of Voice on login?
[11:19] loup dupont: oui
[11:19] George Equus: Seem totally random if getting it or not
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't noticed. I don't use voice in this grid very often. Almost never, in fact
[11:20] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: voice in firestorm? very often need to refresh from prefs.
[11:20] George Equus: I get a dialogue telling this and that port is blocked...
[11:20] George Equus: not true
[11:20] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: though not as much in v4.7.9
[11:20] George Equus: What I use
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: IIRC, I couldn't use voice properly in 4.7.7 so I use Singularity when i want to use voice.
[11:21] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 90be326: 2016-10-15 21:06:17 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:21] George Equus: When I have it, it works fine. Used it yesterday for hours
[11:22] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Once voice is connected, yeah it stays connected for me.
[11:23] George Equus: Yes, never fail once enabled
[11:24] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: back
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: wb, Don.
[11:24] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: so this texture/ prim problem, this super manipulated torus prim into a xmas tree ribbon, the part you see of it is actually the inside of the prim after its cut
[11:25] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: and when you apply a texture, you see it on there, it shows on there, then when you click done, or ok, it reverts to the previous texture
[11:25] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: to get thru this i found if i place the texture i want on it, then a diff texture, then press done, it reverts back to the one i wanted
[11:26] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i tested this on singularity, firestorm and alchemy and on 3 different grids
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: One possibility is that it is a problem with Vivox, George.
[11:26] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: same results, i even had another person try it with same results on a diff grid then kitely
[11:27] George Equus: Then others should have same problems I would imagine
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Its nice that it reverts to the texture you wanted instead of one you didn't. :)
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... if the same thing happened in three different viewers they are either using code pulled from the same place or it might be a OpenSim issue.
[11:28] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: it's a royal pain in the arse making xmas items using that shape
[11:28] Snakedance Moonwing: somebody talking french?
[11:28] loup dupont: oui
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Loup was, Snakedance.
[11:28] Snakedance Moonwing: hmm
[11:29] Snakedance Moonwing: on they are on the ground :)
[11:29] Snakedance Moonwing: waves at kimmypoo :)
[11:30] Snakedance Moonwing: he seems to be admiring his name on the board hehe
[11:30] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: 3 diff viewers, 3 diff grids, 2 diff people
[11:30] Snakedance Moonwing: ok i'll be quite again :)
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Don, did you file a mantis?
[11:31] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: honestly, i have no clue how to file one yet
[11:31] Snakedance Moonwing: the mantis scares me :)
[11:33] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Andrew, even if a mantis is submitted naively - a dev can clean it up, yes?
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes, James.
[11:35] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: I would like to announce, that the New Media Arts project now has a website for info on whats going on, http://www.newmediaarts.org/home/projects/oshg-project/ , and a sign up link for anyone who is interested in helping the project
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The important parts are to provide a short meaningful (as much as is possible) description of the problem, the version of OpenSim you are using. You can specify that by the git hash code (if you know what it is) or provide version and date if you are using code from git master. Otherwise just the version of code.
[11:35] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok, ty
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The description of the problem should be clear, and ideally, be detailed so someone can folllow the steps to reproduce the problem.
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If you want to provide log extracts or sample code to the bug report they are best done as attachments.
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's the highlights of filing a report. I'd have to pull up the site to see if there is anything else to mention.
[11:38] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: just 6 required fields on the 'report issue' form.
[11:39] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty for explaining it
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, of course. The category. That may be harder to choose if you haven't done coding for the grid.
[11:39] James atLLOUD: yeah, category would stump me.
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: James, right. Those starred sections need to be filled in. Some of the other sections can be ignored when they aren't applicable.
[11:40] James atLLOUD: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: In Don's case the problem doesn't sound it has anything to do with physics so reporting the physics engine in use isn't going to make a difference to the report.
[11:41] James atLLOUD: I kind of remember texture behavior like that in SL - seems like a process that doesn't quite close out.
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: The upload button near the bottom of the page is how you can attach a log extract, code patch, or image that contains more information related to the issue.
[11:41] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: tbh, as a user and not a coder/dev, i probably wouldnt ever file a report, it would upset me when i saw i didnt know even where to report it. There needs to be a way for simple users to say hey " here is a problem" and and it get looked into
[11:42] Jim Jackson: Andrew, speaking to the link that Don provided... Do the opensim devs have a plan to address the moses/halcyon press releases as of late? I know they were sort of rebutted on HG business... quite frankly they are scaremongering some of the end users which seems like their plan
[11:43] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i braught it to Ilans attention on kitely, he believed it was a viewer issue, but after i showed it wasnt, he didnt seem to want to look into it further
[11:43] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i even sent him one to see for himself
[11:43] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: a week ago, no further word, other then he had said he would check it out
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, I know there was a mailing list message with some items mentioned that might be partly scaremongering. I don't know about press releases from them. I haven't seen them.
[11:44] Jim Jackson: articles on HG business
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, that site says there is a new version of Kokua. I'll have to check that out later.
[11:45] James atLLOUD: @mantis - I was going to suggest the grid admin would be a level above the mantis to report errors.
[11:45] James atLLOUD: Sorry to hear no response from Ilan.
[11:46] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: so, as just a user, i feel i am stuck dealing with a problem that will not get fixed
[11:46] Jim Jackson: Don, I am a mostly lost end user and have filed mantis in the past
[11:47] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: even back in 2007 SL this wasnt a problem, i uploaded my prims from my work there, and i even made new prims to test in case it was a problem from the uploaded ones
[11:47] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Welcome to the club Don! Even if you can make a problem happen and document it well, it often takes years for things to get resolved.
[11:47] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: lovely
[11:48] James atLLOUD: Mantis needs a spot to attach candy.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Still more likely to get fixed if it is reported than if it isn't unless it is a problem with some feature that would affect a lot of people.
[11:49] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: it probably doesnt affect many at all, few builders would torture a prim like i have, rofl
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:49] James atLLOUD: I have to follow a Jira tracking system for my job and it still befuddles me.
[11:50] George Equus: I used to do a lot of micro torturing in SL. not done much here if any
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't had much time to spend torturing prims.
[11:51] George Equus: actually fun, can get some amazing shapes from it
[11:51] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i could just make the tree ribbons round spirals, but its cut inside out and shows a flat ribbon like surface in a spiral , like a real ribbon would look
[11:51] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: OR, continue my mesh lessons and just make it there instead, rofl
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Don: One workaround would be to abandon prims and make a shape you want in mesh. The result could be fewer vertexes and be kinder to the servers.
[11:53] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i'm not here to "cuddle" the servers! < rofl >
[11:53] George Equus: will only take a year to do too...
[11:53] James atLLOUD like mesh learnings
[11:53] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[11:54] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: sum times, my cuntry fied talkins shows
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: All builders should think about the effects of their builds on the servers.
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: True, but many don't.
[11:54] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: << yes i know kayaker, and i do that all the time >
[11:56] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: for example, i have a table on my work platform with over 300 xmas items on it i produced over the last few days, the total of those is negligible vs my sim stats, i am very carefull on textures and scripting i use
[11:58] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: not to mention a giant T Rex roaming the Badlands on the backside of my region ......LOL
[11:58] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: .../wonders where that t rex came from........./cough.../kayaker...../cough
[11:58] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[11:59] James atLLOUD: new topic - I just discovered the ohloh page for the project (openhub). cool stats. looks like last update was 3 months ago?
[11:59] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: its actually pretty cool if you get to see it roaming around
[11:59] James atLLOUD: https://www.openhub.net/p/4753?p=OpenSim
[12:01] James atLLOUD: Does openhub 'scrape' a data source and is something borked?
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: James, ohloh is now known as Black Duck. The stats are updated very regularly. I don't know the exact schedule. 3 months doesn't sound right.
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: James, they access the project code repository to update the stats.
[12:03] James atLLOUD: Ya, I suspected. Does it need a login to see what's up? and then, is it worth it? I dunno.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Before we go, I'm now planning to update the PHP side of the OpenSimSearch and OpenSimProfile modules I maintain to use PDO instead of mysql. That will let them be used with some recent versions of PHP where mysql has been deprecated or even removed.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: It has risen closer to the top of my ToDo list.
[12:04] James atLLOUD: It looks like something the OSHG folk should read.
[12:05] James atLLOUD: oh - topic shift. sorry - OSHG folk should read Blackduck.
[12:05] James atLLOUD: PDO?
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: James, it is a method of accessing databases. An alternative to mysql and mysqli that is more database engine agnostic.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: If there isn't anything else for today we can call this meeting concluded.