Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-30

Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid

10:51] BlueWall Slade is Online
10:51] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: more lag
10:52] sim core: ?
10:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello
10:52] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: hi neb
10:52] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hey Neb
10:52] sim core: Greetings, nebadon and all
10:53] robert omegamu: hi all :-)
10:53] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hello
10:53] Nebadon Izumi: we'll be getting started shortly with meeting, it might be light attendance today by the devs
10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll see
10:53] Karlos Frog: Hi, anyone who knows this place
10:54] sim core: ( I don't dare sitting, I just got sent to 128, 128,128 last time I tried :-)
10:54] sim core: *Try
10:55] sim core: Lol, karlos
10:55] Karlos Frog: hihi
10:56] Karlos Frog: wery funny Scotty
10:56] sim core: You should take the shuttle, next time ;-J
10:57] Karlos Frog: This is my first visit here ...
10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Karlos, welcome to the grid
10:58] sim core: Nice!
10:58] Karlos Frog: I did some scripting-building in SL ...
10:59] Karlos Frog: ... and may be would like to run my own server to build a German Sci-Fi series decoration
11:00] Karlos Frog: (not Star Trek :-) Raumpatrouille
11:00] sim core: You might like to read the instructions on 'opensimulator.org', karlos :-J
11:00] Fly Man is Online
11:00] Charles Krinke is Online
11:00] Karlos Frog: Yes, I just wanted to see how much works already ...
11:00] Teravus Ousley is Online
11:00] Homer Horwitz: Hi
11:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Charles
11:00] Karlos Frog: ... but I can't find a working Sandbox
11:00] kefcom belgium: llo
11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Snowdrop
11:01] Charles Krinke: Morning
11:01] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: hi
11:01] Snowdrop Short: hi
11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello Justin :)
11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
11:01] Charles Krinke: Just go use one of my regions for a sandbox, Karlos
11:01] Charles Krinke: y
11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: lets go upstairs :)
11:01] Richardus Raymaker is Offline
11:01] sim core: Hi justin and all :-J
11:01] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hi all
11:01] Fly Man: Evening all
11:01] Charles Krinke: Yang, Celt, Phobos, Deimos, Io, Europa,
11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Charles
11:01] Charles Krinke: Hi, NEbadon
11:02] Richardus Raymaker is Online
11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Nebadon
11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Homer
11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Fly :)
11:02] Fly Man: Hey Snoopy
11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello Teravus
11:03] Charles Krinke: Boy, these cushions are *really* soft and *absorbing*.
11:03] Fly Man: Grab a chair Teravus :)
11:03] Nebadon Izumi: :)
11:03] Charles Krinke: We just seem to *sink* into them.
11:03] sim core: ( I don't dare to sit anymore, I prefer staying out of the 128,128,128 zone when I get up, lol )
11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:03] Fly Man: Hope everyone had a good Christmas ?
11:04] sim core: Yes
11:04] Charles Krinke: Coitainly. Are things a bit more consistent with the testing this week?
11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: elastic-fantastic
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: yea logins
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt
11:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i have clocked logins at needing about 1024kbs of bandwidth per avatar
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: for a few seconds only
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but its enough that when 4-5 people login we exceed this servers capacity for bandwidth
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it never really fully recovers either after that happens it seems
11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm
11:05] sim core: Main thing I tested was prim to prim collisions, seems to be pretty much the same, works well with ground mostly
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: like certain delays start to cause issues in the simulator
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and eventually it spirals down and goes down
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: we still seem to get alot of the sim looks ok on the console
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: but logins are denied
11:06] Fly Man: But Nebadon, is this the User server going done in the spiral
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: on the plazas
11:06] Fly Man: or the regions ?
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: regions
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sim restart fixes it
11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, down the plughole
11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if anybody has noticed another problem I've had on the most recent revisions. On a standalone with lots of regions on Linux I get various client problems
11:07] Richardus Raymaker: question about wright plaza. is filter_collision true or false here ?
11:07] Charles Krinke: Like the client tends to log out?
11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: clients stop responding to commands properly. And then when somebody logs out a child agent ends up being left behind - and the sim degrades rapidly from there
11:07] Teravus Ousley: I wonder if anyone has noticed the issues with linked physical prim :)
11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there do seem to be spontaneous client logouts as well :(
11:07] sim core: I only run 2 regions on standalone, but 5 on grid
11:07] Homer Horwitz: Yep, I did :)
11:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. you cant delete them many time
11:08] Charles Krinke: I see that. Better the client then the sim.
11:08] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: if set phisical to link crash region on ubuntu
11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Diva
11:08] Homer Horwitz: The linked pysical prims, I mean. Found a missing setMass, but that's not all, it still crashes...
11:08] Diva Canto: hi
11:08] Biskit Maker: hi
11:08] Teravus Ousley: On that note.. I've isolated it to d.MassRotate having different results on linux and windows.
11:08] Fly Man: Hey Diva
11:08] Homer Horwitz: Ter: Ah, interesting.
11:08] Charles Krinke: I promised a few folks that I would mention the notion of "stable" svn to recommend for who wish to be one step back from the leading edge each week.
11:08] Teravus Ousley: on linux.. it returns a fabulous number.. NaN
11:09] Homer Horwitz: Ter: Let me checkin that missing setMass; could you try again, then?
11:09] Teravus Ousley: what is interesting, however, is it appeared to be working fine before..
11:09] Fly Man: Charles, what is a stable SVN trunk ;)
11:09] Charles Krinke: We have a binary download on opensimulator.org and osgrid.org for those that wish to *not* compile, and we have a recommended stable SVN. I think it is fair that we recommend at this meeting each week what both those versions are.
11:09] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: works fine
11:09] Teravus Ousley: Homer, no need. I've got it in my current dev revision.
11:09] Homer Horwitz: Ah, ok.
11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: Charles that is a great concept - developers will not get too many support requests for the latest svn versions
11:10] Teravus Ousley: .. additionally, it was set on the root prim somewhere else... so it wasn't really needed in that loop.
11:10] Fly Man: Charles, I ask Nebadon to create a new stable release every Saturday before the Q&A Hours
11:10] Charles Krinke: So, there are two datapoints. One is a binary download and the other is a "recommended stable svn".
11:10] Fly Man: that's the binary release that gets on the website
11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: what is a stable SVN?
11:11] Teravus Ousley: I'm dealing with things that look almost as bad as regex : dMULTIPLY2_333 (t1,m->I,R); ----> dMULTIPLYOP2_333(A,=,B,C); ---> (A)
0] op dDOT((B + 4),(C + 4)); ---> dDOTpq(a,b,1,1); ---> dDOTpq(a,b,p,q) ((a)
0]*(b)
0] + (a)
p]*(b)
q] + (a)
2*(p)]*(b)
2*(q)])
11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: nice
11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: stable means that it works more or less stable
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: the stable Repo you mean?
11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
11:11] sim core: Something that does not crash every 2 hours, in my view
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: or just 1 specifc rev in the main repo charles?
11:11] Charles Krinke: I am thinking that "stable svn recommendation" is one that has been tested a bit on one or more plazas and a few folks like Nebadon, daTwitch, myself and others *recommend* each week, if that is ok with everyone.
11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: so that "normal" osgrid users can build and chat, etc.
11:12] Tommi Laukkanen: ss
11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: fine by me. THough stable might be overselling it a bit
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yes
11:12] Fly Man: I would call it
11:12] Fly Man: "Developers Choice"
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i think we need to stop using stable, and called it "Supported"
11:12] Charles Krinke: What should we call it?
11:12] Justin Clark-Casey laughs
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: vs UnSupported
11:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, there have been very few times that head wouldn't behave pretty good in OSgrid
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: stable is confusing term
11:12] Charles Krinke: A rose by any other name?
11:12] sim core: ( Shaky and 'shakeless' would dound good :-)
11:12] Tommi Laukkanen: stable means production ready I guess
11:12] Richardus Raymaker: yes, stable says to much for it
11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes only that "stable" version should be supported on irc
11:12] sim core: *Sound
11:12] Charles Krinke: Lets pick a name and just go for it.
11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: on #opensim
11:13] Homer Horwitz: Not-quite-as-unstable-as-normal?
11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: what would "Supported" mean though?
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: many times the "Stable" repo is actually less stable than the Main SVN head
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its say most of the time
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its=i'd
11:13] Tommi Laukkanen: release candidate?
11:13] Fly Man: Uhm, there's a saying in Dutch that says "If it works, it's a developers choice"
11:13] Teravus Ousley: but wait.. trunk is supposed to be broken.. so lets not make that recommendation.
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so it becomes consuing to use that term to describe something thats not actually stable
11:14] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ++ on rc
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Developors choice is nice, but a bit too fancy
11:14] Teravus Ousley: the developers reserve the right to break trunk for hundreds of revisions at a time :)
11:14] Charles Krinke: "Last Tested", "Current", "Deployed" ?
11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe "tested prerelease"?
11:14] Biskit Maker: would this 'stable' / 'developers choice' have to be updatged weekly? Could it not be something that is used a reference for OSGRID?
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I think Supported and Unsuppoted is less confusing
11:14] Fly Man: Deployment <x>
11:14] Homer Horwitz: How about "unstable". Trunk would be "broken", then :P
11:14] Teravus Ousley: well, as long as the community is supporting it :)
11:14] Chris D is Online
11:14] Charles Krinke: I know, Teravus. I'm just trying to find a way to recommend a version for folks on #opensim to relieve some pressure on the developers and you guys are all hung up on the fracken name.
11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: "supported prerelease"?
11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: would "Supported" mean that people are prepared to give help on it
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: sure, I think something that doesnt relate to stability is the imporant part
11:15] Charles Krinke: Yes, Justin. That is the point.
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: because none are really stable in any way shape or form
11:15] Tommi Laukkanen: how about just calling it edge or something like that :)
11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: as lng as people don't think that 'supported' doesn't mean that it's a separate branch on which bug fixes would take place....
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: sure, but using Edge would require further explination
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: where as supported unsupported requires no explinatioon
11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, as long as they don't think it means that
11:15] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: the !stable-svn-snaspshot-you're-on-your-on-release
11:15] Richardus Raymaker: but is you dont give ""support"" on tranks how to find bugs ?
11:15] Fly Man: early access ?
11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: "residents release" versus "developers release"?
11:16] Fly Man: prototype ?
11:16] Chris D is Offline
11:16] Tommi Laukkanen: early access is nice I guess
11:16] Charles Krinke: Just pick a fracken-fritzen-name for it. It doesnt matter. It will change each week.
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats nice snoopy
11:16] Fly Man: technical preview ?
11:16] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: crash-test-dummy release
11:16] Teravus Ousley: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html :)
11:16] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: pre-release
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but still, I think the most basic explination is what we should choose
11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes prerelease
11:16] Orion Hax: call it what it is experiment #636
11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: "almost borken?"
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Supported / Unsupported
11:16] Fly Man: I'd go with prerelease
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you dont get anymore basic really
11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I like supported most
11:16] Fly Man: or prototype
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they are all prerelease
11:16] Charles Krinke: The last thing I expected was to get wrapped up in the name this morning.
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: tooooooooo confusing
11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: someting clear and easy
11:17] Chris D is Online
11:17] Biskit Maker: how about 'usable release'?
11:17] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: prerelease supported on #opensim trunk is trunk
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: Supported / Unsupported
11:17] Fly Man: uhm,
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt get any clearer
11:17] Fly Man: just call it beta :p
11:17] Fly Man: or gamma
11:17] Biskit Maker: nothing stated about supported
11:17] sim core: How about 'alpha' for very new and 'beta' for tested a bit more?
11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: we can use the group of intended users as basis
11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: - residents
11:17] Blaksmith Rubble is Online
11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: everything is alpha right now
11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: - developers / testers
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: we need people never involved here at this meeting
11:17] Biskit Maker: this weeks usable release is XXXX
11:17] Teravus Ousley: heh, alpha and beta presume that it's a progression.. and it's not.. it's all alpha :)
11:17] Charles Krinke: We will pick some name, put notes on the wiki and osgrid describing the constraints and just move forward. Is that ok?
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: to come to the website on their own
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and go ok
11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: could call it the testing revision....
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: i know what is supported
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and what is not
11:18] Chris D is Offline
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: without having to ask for help
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: using fancy terms
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and wierd names
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: does not help that
11:18] sim core: Well, I saw progression, and I use the bleeding edge
11:18] Fly Man: OpenSim Omage Release
11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: supported +1. If it doesn't work out, we can change it
11:18] Diva Canto: "recommended"
11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Dive
11:18] Charles Krinke: "recommended" is fine with me.
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats nice too
11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: Diva*
11:18] Teravus Ousley: Instant OpenSimulator crystals..
11:18] Biskit Maker: recommended release works too
11:18] Chris D is Online
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: something that the non-technical person who never ran fancy linux named revisions
11:18] Fly Man: Yes, recommended
11:18] Charles Krinke: thank you, Diva for sorting through the chaos with one sentence.
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: can go ok
11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: well, recommended revision
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: this is the one i need
11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: recommended versus head release?
11:19] Biskit Maker: 3 cheers for Diva
11:19] Richardus Raymaker: my crystal have a BSOD
11:19] Charles Krinke: Just "recommended"
11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I like it
11:19] Charles Krinke: I like it too
11:19] Nebadon Izumi: simple to the point
11:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool
11:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: and what is the name of the latest development versions?
11:19] Teravus Ousley: Necramended .. yah.
11:19] Charles Krinke: We will put this on the wiki and on osgrid.org and keep it up each week.
11:19] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: repremanded
11:19] Fly Man: release candidate
11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya I have been meaning to redo the downloads page to something better for osgrid.org
11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so this now gives me the reason to do so
11:20] Charles Krinke: Nebadon: Are we still going with r7879 for this week?
11:20] Fly Man: as after those, Charles makes a release
11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yes, this region is on that revision
11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to be holding up really great so far
11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so i think anyone who wants to run a stable revision this week, 7879 is good
11:20] Teravus Ousley: it's maaagical.. rubbery
11:21] Fly Man: Charles, do you have an agenda for this
11:21] Blaksmith Rubble waves HI ...
11:21] Nebadon Izumi: though that said, i have heard ther might be breakage with regions beyond that
11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Diva can you comment on that?
11:21] Fly Man: because I would like to add something to it
11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: recommended revision! (not the s word :)
11:21] Nebadon Izumi: is there a clear line in the sand
11:21] Charles Krinke: Ok. "Recommended" r7879 for this week. We will review testing on the weekend and come up with a newer version if possible and stay with r7879 if newer ones are less stable
11:21] Charles Krinke: Yes. Bear with me, Fly-Man
11:21] Fly Man: k
11:21] Tommi Laukkanen: Is it possible to get an rss feed where each recommended svn version is published to?
11:21] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: for me 7885 is more stable after diva and melanie commits
11:22] Tommi Laukkanen: something easy to follow when to do update
11:22] Charles Krinke: Ok. Is it fair to say that no Lindens are here today? If there are Lindens here, they have the floor for any OGP notions.
11:22] Marlon Wulluf: hi everyone, my chat is a bit slow lol
11:22] Chris D is Online
11:22] Teravus Ousley: Homer, the weird thing.. is this all used to previously work just fine on *nix
11:22] Fly Man: Charles, no Lindens here
11:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: 7894 is very stable for me
11:22] Fly Man: Whump is on holiday
11:22] Dahlia Trimble is Online
11:22] Homer Horwitz: Ter: When did it stop?
11:22] Richardus Raymaker: 94 ? oh then i do some update
11:22] Charles Krinke: I will recommend that the next agenda item is HyperGrid as it fits with OGP (sorta).
11:22] Teravus Ousley: sometime after I tested it with melanie's elevator on *nix
11:22] Charles Krinke: Is that alright with you, Diva?
11:22] Diva Canto: yes.
11:23] Homer Horwitz: Which revision was that?
11:23] Teravus Ousley: probably a week after physical linksets was implemented.
11:23] Diva Canto: but I'm not sure I can handle 100 questions flying by at the same time... :)
11:23] Charles Krinke: I would recommend that Diva describe any of her HyperGrid or comms ideas relating to HyperGrid and entertain questions.
11:23] Alby Damden is Offline
11:23] Blaksmith Rubble: wow, I'm way back .. (but then again, I haven't been able to do much lately ) .. 7871 so far
11:23] Diva Canto: ok, HG -- no news. But Comms is under work
11:23] Fly Man: Diva, Q ?
11:23] Marlon Wulluf: *puts hand up for question*
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: diva: by the way, I see various warnings in your new code
11:24] Diva Canto: Fly-Man-, please yo uhabve the word
11:24] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
11:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Dahlia
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: diva: specifically places where you compare UUID to null, which won't work
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: is there any comms breakage recerntly that will cut off comms to older regions Diva?
11:24] Fly Man: Diva, will this new comms be the OGS2 ?
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: bluewall asked me last night
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and I was unsure
11:24] Charles Krinke: Hang on, Marlon.
11:24] Fly Man: or just a between OGS1 / OGS2
11:24] Diva Canto: hehehe, I really can't type 3 answers at the same time.
11:24] Homer Horwitz: UUID is a struct. Can't be null. Can be UUID.Zero, though.
11:24] Diva Canto: so: comms breakage: yes
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: no problem answer me last
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ok
11:25] Nebadon Izumi: anything I should announce?
11:25] kefcom belgium: bbl
11:25] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 lifts hand
11:25] Diva Canto: well, right now we've switched ChildUpdate messages to HTTP in 7891
11:25] Diva Canto: so if you have an older sim around you, it won't get those messages
11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ah so its only Neighbor Breaks? not to UGAIM?
11:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm
11:26] Diva Canto: correct, nebadon
11:26] Nebadon Izumi: nothing fatal if not updated?
11:26] Richardus Raymaker: that explain maby why IM not wokr good the last time.
11:26] Nebadon Izumi: just cant see each other anymore
11:26] Diva Canto: regions crossings may not work
11:26] Diva Canto: between recent and older
11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok
11:26] Homer Horwitz: Does TP use them, too?
11:26] Nebadon Izumi: that will work it self out then
11:26] Diva Canto: Homer: no
11:26] Diva Canto: not yet :)
11:26] Homer Horwitz: ok
11:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: can that cause invisible neighboring regions and client crashes at sim borders?
11:26] Diva Canto: but I'm just about to add that
11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I presume you don't mind more support traffic then? I don't know how major that would be
11:27] Diva Canto: Snoopy: yes
11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: I had that before
11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: it was extreme
11:27] sim core: Is hypergrid going to allow directly seeing a neighbour on a different grid?
11:27] Richardus Raymaker: it seems my regions go only down by avatars or tp/crossing.
11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I saw the same Rich
11:27] Diva Canto: @sim core: probably not
11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I would concur, i would infact say TP's are the worst problem we have
11:28] sim core: Thank-you
11:28] Nebadon Izumi: next to the login bandwidth spikes
11:28] Nebadon Izumi: the tps make sim go unavailable i think
11:28] Diva Canto: what I ghear is that TP problems seem to be worse with the Hippo
11:28] Fly Man raises hand again
11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder why that is
11:28] Richardus Raymaker: i go with nebadons idea about tp\
11:28] Diva Canto: yes Flyman
11:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: yesterday I had a extreme memory leak - 700 MB in 20 mins
11:28] Fly Man: Did you already answer my Q ?
11:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably mono 2.3 caused that
11:29] Dahlia Trimble notices total frame time is 1500 ms, yet time dilation is still 1.0 and sim FPS is amazingly 30
11:29] Fly Man: as I didn't see anything about OGS1 / OGS2
11:29] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 asks, how are HG links between old/new regions - work?
11:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: after a complete restart of the server it was ok again
11:29] Nebadon Izumi: last night i flew about 12 sims before the 13th sim i floated off to inifity
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: astounding, ain't it :)
11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so border crossing is pretty sweet
11:29] Nebadon Izumi: login and tp are worst offenders
11:29] Diva Canto: Flyman: I can't interact very effectively in a crazy meeting like this one :) what was your question?
11:29] Dahlia Trimble: lies and damn lies ;)
11:29] Fly Man: My Question was
11:29] Fly Man: Will this comms stuff you're implementing be OGS2 ?
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: lotsa unacked bytes as well, at least for me
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder how real that number is
11:29] Fly Man: or a between stage in OGS1 and OGS2
11:30] Diva Canto: Fly-Man I don't think we're calling it OGS2
11:30] Chris D is Online
11:30] Diva Canto: but I guess we could, although the term OGS is questionable here
11:30] Diva Canto: (OpenGrid ...what?)
11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: inter-region stuff is arguably a different thing to grid comms
11:31] Chris D is Offline
11:31] Richardus Raymaker is Offline
11:31] Marlon Wulluf: raises hand
11:31] Diva Canto: yes Marlon
11:31] Marlon Wulluf: is the phantom linksets fixed yet? for when linksets are taken to inventory, then later rezzed
11:32] Diva Canto: I don't know thw answer to that question Marlon
11:32] Homer Horwitz: Do you have a mantis, Marlon?
11:32] Diva Canto: maybe Melanie does, but she's not here
11:32] Marlon Wulluf: I have, but I forgotton my username and password, lol, I have so many sites that have passwords, I forgot this one
11:33] Homer Horwitz: No problem, you can read it anonymously, too.
11:33] Homer Horwitz: Just not add notes
11:33] sim core: ( Or delete :-)
11:33] Homer Horwitz: Or that :)
11:33] Marlon Wulluf: can I post a mantis anonymously?
11:34] Richardus Raymaker: happy not..
11:34] Homer Horwitz: Don't think so. I wondered whether there is an existing mantis about it...
11:34] Dahlia Trimble: you can always make a new account
11:34] Homer Horwitz: Or that :)
11:34] Marlon Wulluf: I tried, but it refused, because the email address is already in use
11:34] Fly Man: Diva, how long will your "breaking" take ?
11:35] Biskit Maker: i'd first search and see if one already exists - then add a note if needed
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: heh, looks a bit laggy
11:35] Dahlia Trimble: then there is probably a password reset on there somewhere
11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: god yes
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but damn, look how many people are here
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: this is awesome though
11:35] Diva Canto: Fly-Man: it is going to be a long process of transferring the interregion comms to the new method
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lag or not, impressive stuff
11:35] Teravus Ousley: sorry, that was me testing physics load
11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: ah :)
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: even more impressive
11:35] Kevin Paisley did his part to reduce lag by removing my prim genitals from my nose attachment area :)
11:35] Fly Man: Diva, so say 1 month to get it all working ?
11:36] Diva Canto: if I didn't have travel, I'd say yes. But I have some travel in January, so I don't know
11:36] Diva Canto: but the plan is to transfer one comm at a time
11:36] Diva Canto: in between things should be stable
11:36] Fly Man: k
11:37] Richardus Raymaker: the old comms are tcp or udp ?
11:37] Diva Canto: .NET Remoting, over tcp
11:37] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: will hg links work between old/new?
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: heh
11:38] Fly Man: Someone HAD to test ;)
11:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:38] Diva Canto: in priciple they are euqally affected. It's the same comms, really. In practice the ChildAgents message doesn't matter for the HG
11:38] Dahlia Trimble: lol
11:38] Blaksmith Rubble: LOL
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: this is great stuff
11:39] Fly Man: K, Charles ?
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: I have a sim that is open for building to everyone (OKC) Sui, we have a few residents living there
11:39] Blaksmith Rubble whispers ... I'm halfway just lurking today .... still bouncing between RL work and here
11:39] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I ask, because I wonder if it is safe to test head on a local grid while maintining compatible regions in OSgrid
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the up time has been amazing last 2 weeks
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: we hit 96 hours
11:40] Homer Horwitz: Must be the holidays :P
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and thats open building with many people coming and going
11:40] Homer Horwitz: Noone here?
11:40] sim core: :-J
11:40] Homer Horwitz: Ah
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: just like this sim
11:40] Diva Canto: TUX: when things are not on the same version after I commit changes to Comms, expect breakages :)
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: over 10000 prims
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and 800 scripts
11:40] Homer Horwitz: 24 people?
11:40] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ok, thanks
11:40] Teravus Ousley: haha, the visitorListRecorder is high on the script time there :)
11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: eh homer?
11:41] Homer Horwitz: Hm?
11:41] Dahlia Trimble: usually linden sims that have many avatars dont have so many prims or scripts
11:41] Teravus Ousley: 981 lines per second :)
11:41] Nebadon Izumi: most of the sims i have spent my time on in SL
11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hover around 6000-10000 scripts
11:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have a question concerning 64 bit servers
11:41] sim core: Yes, I must say great job on the developer's part!
11:42] Dahlia Trimble: not the welcome areas like Ahern
11:42] Fly Man: I was hoping Charles would finish his Agenda ;)
11:42] Teravus Ousley: 981 lines per second is quite an active script :)
11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: will they be officially supported in the future?
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yes
11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:42] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: anyone interested in checking out the Greenie's in OpenSim?
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: they already are
11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, script lines per second is in the stats somewhere? Or is that top scripts?
11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I found a 64 bit bug
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is now 100% 64 bit compatible i thought
11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I want to see Greenies :)
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ok log all bugs at mantis for sure
11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: concerning sales settings
11:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: I did
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: great
11:43] Teravus Ousley: nebadon, you might want to tone that sensor down a bit.. :)
11:43] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I'll post a link - it's really interesting to see
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok well thats what i heard on the dev channel and in the osgrid channel
11:43] Gaspar.Roux http://75.101.220.60:8002: I saw the alha tests, big fun.
11:43] Gaspar.Roux http://75.101.220.60:8002: alpha
11:43] Charles Krinke: Ok. In general, the developers should have priority for any subjects. Is there anything the developers need from the testers they are not getting?
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: im not saying it will be perfect
11:43] Tommi Laukkanen: Snoopy if you build to x86 platform your sim runs on 32 bit mode even on 64 bit os.. tested this on my vista 64 bits
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: all im saying is you should not have to recompile stuff
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: for 64 bit
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not that its perfect
11:44] Tommi Laukkanen: nebadon: native libraries dont work
11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow yes, what is that visitor list recorder doing, busy waiting?
11:44] Fly Man: I would love to have more people testing OpenSim. Search
11:44] Tommi Laukkanen: they are build for 32 bit.. like the jpeg lib
11:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that works well - I dont need to compile ODE additionally anymore
11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i heard jpeg was 64 bit
11:44] Fly Man: to see if there are still some flying dragons
11:44] Nebadon Izumi: this is recent
11:44] Fly Man: or if we can make a official release
11:44] Nebadon Izumi: not always
11:44] Teravus Ousley: hard to say Justincc.. need to see the source.. but I expect a fast sensor or something :)
11:44] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Rezzable alpha grid: http://tr.im/alphagrid
11:44] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: there ya go
11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: ah :)
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but really, anyone has any bugs on 64 bit
11:45] Richardus Raymaker: i think the develpers wants more time to develop.
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: please mantis them so we know
11:45] Blaksmith Rubble: speaking of search, my lands are not showing in "places" .. with or without the "advertise" checkboxked
11:45] Blaksmith Rubble: boxed*
11:45] Charles Krinke: This meeting is our main way for the developers to interact with those who are testing OpenSim. Lets try to cater to the developers until they have no more questions or statements, please.
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: getting to be 64 bit compatible is imporant
11:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: I only have on 64 bit bug - the rest works great!
11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: Actually I'd like more time to eat and contemplate existence
11:45] sim core: Lol
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and if you can document 64 bit stuff that would be great too
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the wiki or forums
11:45] Nebadon Izumi: anyone who has experience, sharing it would be great
11:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: the bug is that left click actions and the kind of buy change after a region restart
11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: that makes part of my shop unusable at the moment :(
11:46] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: in debian lenny 64 object for sale works fine
11:46] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: have some hangs in previous trunk
11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: because it switches to "sit on object" and "buy original"
11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:46] Diva Canto: any more questions on comms, or was I brilliantly clear? :-)
11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Tux the rezzable grid requires a SL group membership?
11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: file a mantis and some kind soul may take a look :)
11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: probably isn't an enormously hard bug to fix
11:47] Fly Man will wait for the others to have Q at the end of the meeting
11:47] Charles Krinke: Lets get confirmation for problems from others and work our Mantis. This is not the place to go through all the differences in results. This is the place to describe at a "Higher" level what we are doing for the next week.
11:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: I did that already #2936
11:47] Diva Canto: this week I'm going to try to improve TPs and region crossing using the new HTTP-based ChildUPdate message
11:47] Nebadon Izumi: you can always join us in #osgrid on irc.freenode.net anytime to discuss mantis issues
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: infact i suggest before you contact the #opensim-dev team
11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, 64 bit eh?
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: you visit us at #osgrid 1st
11:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
11:48] Diva Canto: you know what that means: while *trying* to improve, things may break, until I finally get it to work well :-)
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if we recommend you visit -dev
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: then proceed there
11:48] Fly Man: This week, I hope to have more feedback from OpenSim.Search
11:48] Dahlia Trimble: why not #opensim?
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: either or
11:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: just on 64 bit servers
11:48] Fly Man: and to have OpenProfile working for Plaza testing
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying #osgrid is available
11:48] Nebadon Izumi: any opensim topic is fair game
11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: you should add the db that you're using - could be crucial
11:48] Charles Krinke: Do we need a more formal 64bit testing team?
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!
11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: more testing always helps
11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok but it can be reproduced easily - you can test that on my sims if you likr
11:49] Nebadon Izumi: id prefer people bother me there than in #opensim-dev
11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: like*
11:49] Charles Krinke: Anything else from the developers?
11:49] Fly Man: Yes
11:50] Blaksmith Rubble: has anyone looked at #2858 ? .. regarding a sim coming on-line while an AV is on a neighbor region, the region that just came up does not show to the AV until they re-log
11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: well, unfortunately there are other more important concerns crowding me out at the moment
11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes true :)
11:50] Fly Man: An official point of view on the Mono versions that developers use / testers use
11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: but the db being used may well be an important factor
11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I meant important to me - not to everybody :)
11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I will reproduce an example that is not too big
11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yea rememeber when you file your mantis, be as specific about your setup as possible
11:51] Nebadon Izumi: the developers can not see into your configuration
11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I use mono 1.9.1 and will remain doing so until Ubuntu upgrades or somebody pays me lotsa moolah
11:51] Fly Man: Neb, I meant more:
11:51] Homer Horwitz: I use 2.0.1
11:51] Diva Canto: gotta go. bye everyone
11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
11:51] Charles Krinke: I believe that most developers and testers are using or headed towards mono-2.0.1 at a minimum. Older mono, like 1.9 will start fading in populatiry.
11:51] Fly Man: "What version is a tester using, how is it configured"
11:51] Nebadon Izumi: so if a bug seems specific to some issue, include any OpenSim.ini settings that relate to the issue
11:51] Biskit Maker: bye Diva
11:51] Dahlia Trimble: Fly man we dont really have an official recommendation for mono version, but we prefer to develop for the versions that are widely available
11:51] sim core: Bye diva :-)
11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: snoppy: honestly, just the db you're using would be good - whether it's mysql, sqlite or mssql
11:51] Charles Krinke: bye, Diva.
11:51] Homer Horwitz: Bye Diva :)
11:51] Blaksmith Rubble: bye Diva
11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Dive
11:51] Nebadon Izumi: be specific about mono revision your using
11:51] Nebadon Izumi: the kernel
11:51] Richardus Raymaker: mono 20081211
11:51] Fly Man: Dahlia, So I noticed ;)
11:51] Nebadon Izumi: be very very specific in your mantis filing
11:51] Dahlia Trimble: bye diva :)
11:51] Fly Man: 2 days ao
11:52] Biskit Maker: should the mono version be something that goes in with the 'recommended' svn?
11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: under ubuntu I could not use mono 2.x reliably, only 2.3!
11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we should try to provide enough information so that others can recreate the same scenario
11:52] Fly Man: and a suggestion to the Developers:
11:52] Dahlia Trimble: if you cant run opensim on any mono less than 2.3, then there is a problem
11:52] Fly Man: Please make use of the Search, we have Events now
11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes true Dahlia
11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok FLyman
11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: with other versions opensim starts up and does nothing
11:53] Nebadon Izumi: can you talk about the Ubuntu issue
11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so everyone here is aware
11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I use 1.9.1 with no problems
11:53] Fly Man: Yes, that is what I was waiting for
11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: or script compilations fail all the time
11:53] Charles Krinke: I am running mono-2.0.1 on some sims and mono-20081219 on other sims and I dont see a mono problem. But, others are reporting mono problems.
11:53] Nebadon Izumi: go for it
11:53] Fly Man: The latest release of Mono 2.0.1 (Tarballed) from the packaged of Ubuntu is corrupt
11:53] sim core: I am on mac, works great
11:53] Fly Man: it doesn't have large heap installed
11:53] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i use mono 2.0.1 in ubuntu with not problems
11:53] Nebadon Izumi: this is important what Fly Man is saying
11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Fly Man
11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I also use the 2.0.1 tarball, with no problems
11:54] Fly Man: thus making it crash
11:54] Homer Horwitz: 2.0.1 from Debian experimental
11:54] Marlon Wulluf: sorry for the change of subject, quick question,,,,,,I have a boxed build to give away, but WP freebie section has rezzing disabled, where can I rezz the box?
11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: even with large heap 2.x did not work for me, except 2.3
11:54] Nebadon Izumi: this is only for the Repo version of Ubuntu mono 2.0.1?
11:54] Nebadon Izumi: there is known issues
11:54] Charles Krinke: Another plaza freebie area would be best, Marlon.
11:54] Dahlia Trimble: http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/sources/mono/mono-2.0.1.tar.bz2
11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you will have to compile it yourself
11:54] Fly Man: At this moment, the Ubuntu people are looking into this issue
11:54] Marlon Wulluf: ok, thanks
11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: compilations fail from time to time!
11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Ubuntu team confirmed the problem
11:54] Fly Man: and hope to have a new package ready before Jaunty releases
11:55] Blaksmith Rubble: RE: Search ... when I set up ossearch a week or tow back, Neb verified that I was in the database, but I can't do a search for any of my lands... using search from my lands works fine when searching for other places...
11:55] Charles Krinke: along with --with-tls=pthread --wity-large-heap=yes with the ./configure step.
11:55] Orion Hax: i run 2.0.1 from source and it works fine
11:55] Fly Man: Jauntu => 8.10 => 9.04
11:55] Dahlia Trimble: I dont use either of those charles
11:55] Nebadon Izumi: if you compile it yourself though you are ok
11:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: Orion: do you use ubuntu?
11:55] Fly Man: Jaunty for Ubuntu will be releasing in March/April 2009
11:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use 8.04 and 8.10
11:55] Simulator Version v0.4b shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.1.7879 (OS Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) Kernel \r on an \) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False on Mono 2.3a
11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: If you're going to start throwing switches on a compile you need to know what you're doing
11:55] Fly Man: and they hope to have a Large heap package up then
11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: or be prepared to go back and forth when things don't quite work right
11:55] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i use 8.04 server and compile myself 2.02
11:56] Nebadon Izumi: the swithes we recommend right now
11:56] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: 2.0.1
11:56] Nebadon Izumi: have been tested on atleast a dozen systems
11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i use mono daily directory and use the lines nebdon posted on forum
11:56] Nebadon Izumi: of various loads
11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and all perform about the same
11:56] Orion Hax: 8.04 and 8.10
11:56] Fly Man: So, at this moment the 1.9.1 version for Ubuntu works
11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i hopoe the new ubuntu have the old kde :)
11:56] Fly Man: and if you want to have a good standard build
11:56] Dahlia Trimble: If we develop for custom mono installations we risk not being able to run on many systems
11:56] Fly Man: be sure to read on the OSgrid forums
11:57] Fly Man: the way to compile it for Debian / Ubuntu
11:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Hiro's and Nebadon's installation instructions for mono 2.3 on orgrid.org are very good
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: right now nothing we do should break any compatibility with any mono apps
11:57] Richardus Raymaker: only the daily works good with compile
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but if you do find a breka
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: pleas report it to me
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: or Fly Man
11:57] Blaksmith Rubble: the GC stuff, yes, that worked great for me
11:57] Meadhbh Cookies: hola amig{o|a}s
11:57] Dahlia Trimble: you do a regression test with all other mono apps?
11:57] Meadhbh Cookies: anyone seen whump or zha?
11:57] Fly Man: Please report only Debian related Mono issues to me
11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hello meadhbh
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no, but the changes we do dont efect how mono operates
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: just how it handles ram
11:57] Fly Man: Debian / Ubuntu
11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and GC
11:57] Teravus Ousley: no.. thought they were on holiday :)
11:57] Charles Krinke: not today, Meadhbh
11:57] Dahlia Trimble: you dont know that
11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: yup. that's what i thought too.
11:58] Dahlia Trimble: Hi Meadhbh :)
11:58] Fly Man: Zha and Whump Linden are both on Holiday
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but again, my goal is to make opensim run better
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: if it breaks your apps
11:58] Fly Man: they will return after the 3rd of Januari
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: dont use our optimizations
11:58] Charles Krinke: Dahlia. Do you believe we are being too aggressive with these mono recommendations?
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: nothing we do is required
11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: i'll just stand in the corner and try very hard to represent linden's interests
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and never will be
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so use it or dont use it
11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: btw... Meadhbh Cookies == Infinity Linden
11:58] Fly Man: But for all the Ubuntu ppl
11:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
11:58] Teravus Ousley: :)
11:59] Fly Man: Please use 1.9.1
11:59] Dahlia Trimble: Charles, I dont believe that your optimizations are providing usable test data for most oepnsim users
11:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: good luck Meadhbh :)
11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its your own choice, i wont recommend anything that i would think would isolate a machine to only be able to run OpenSim though
11:59] Meadhbh Cookies: lol
11:59] Fly Man: when that fails, go to the SVN trunk version of 2.3
11:59] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hi Infinity
11:59] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i wrote guide for ubuntu e mono: http://www.opensimulator.it/pg/blog/carlos/read/552/come-aggiornare-mono-alla-versione-20-per-opensim
11:59] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone has proof we are doing that we will certainly change how we operate
11:59] Charles Krinke: We are trying to use SDague's recommendation of mono-2.0.1. *Some* folks are having additional problems with mono and for those, we are recommending the large heap if they cannot get the stock mono working in their setup.
11:59] Dahlia Trimble: but we dont seem to have a sturctured testing probram in place anyway
11:59] Dahlia Trimble: *program
11:59] Fly Man: AND
11:59] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know there's no 1.9.1 for ubuntu. thats why i use the daily. that one compiles and your almost done
11:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles that is a good summary
11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea, with this wide variety of platforms, and this early on
11:59] Fly Man: And this is important for ALL to hear
11:59] Teravus Ousley: unit tests ftw! ;)
11:59] Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty hard to achieve
11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: well, to be honest almost all the bugs are going to be ours rather than down to Mono
12:00] Nebadon Izumi: without being in a lab
12:00] Fly Man: so please don't interrupt me ;)
12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol
12:00] Fly Man: Some ppl use Linux
12:00] sim core: :-J
12:00] Fly Man: those ppl I want to ask
12:00] Homer Horwitz: No chance Fly Man
12:00] Fly Man: run your region server with this:
12:00] Fly Man: mono --profile <region>
12:00] Fly Man: This will take some more time to get your region up
12:00] Fly Man: but it will also run profiling on your system
12:01] Fly Man: when your system crashes
12:01] Fly Man: or when your system stops
12:01] Richardus Raymaker: did you add that to the forum page about nebadons mono compile ?
12:01] Fly Man: it will give out the exact amount of memory / calls to functions that it did
12:01] Homer Horwitz: Have to hop out. Bye...
12:01] Fly Man: Please make a file out of it
12:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Homer
12:01] Homer Horwitz waves and poofs.
12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok Homer, thanks for coming man
12:01] Fly Man: and send it to Nebadon
12:01] sim core: Bye homer
12:01] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon
12:01] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: bye Homer
12:01] Nebadon Izumi: what a great meeting today
12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm going to see if I can locate that script. I have a nice red arrow pointing to it
12:02] Nebadon Izumi: this is what its all about
12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
12:02] Dahlia Trimble: Bye Homer
12:02] Fly Man: This way we can see the differences between Mono versions
12:02] Nebadon Izumi: regardless of how optimzied it is, this i great stuff
12:02] Fly Man: and this also shows which functions are slowing us down
12:02] Fly Man: so we, the developers, can have a look at those functions
12:02] Nebadon Izumi: the fact we can make it through a meeting with this kind of abuse, is just awesome
12:02] Charles Krinke: Well, I respect Dahlia as well as SDague and get the impression we may be getting too aggressive about mono compilation.
12:02] Fly Man: to make them more memory reliant and less laggy
12:02] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Fly Man - is it ok to do that on sparse regions?
12:02] Teravus Ousley loads his copy of jetBrains Dot trace :)
12:02] Fly Man: Charles, this is not a compilation it
12:03] Fly Man: each version of Mono has it installed
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure, the switches are totally optional for sure
12:03] Fly Man: and it would be good to see if there are BIG differences between the older and newer Mono's
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: not at all required
12:03] Dahlia Trimble: Charles, I dont want to interfere with your goals for WP, but I dont belive it supports opensim development as well when you use custom configurations
12:03] Charles Krinke: Dahlia. I tend to agree with you.
12:03] sim core nods
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: well I handed this server back to charles
12:04] Nebadon Izumi: so thats up to him at this point
12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i recommended we reload this server
12:04] Charles Krinke: I'm trying to find the middle ground with all the participants and it is getting more difficult.
12:04] Nebadon Izumi: because its been so experimented with
12:04] Fly Man: As said, this is an OPTIONAL thing
12:04] Fly Man: but you would help us with it :)
12:04] Teravus Ousley: you might want to check that visitor monitor script also.. it's registering 'high' on the top scripts list.. astonomically high :)
12:04] Blaksmith Rubble: I don't crash often, but I can definately toss that option in
12:04] Nebadon Izumi: Id like to get on newer version of Fedora or something little more up to date
12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Teravus it caused crashes on my regions
12:04] Dahlia Trimble: well pushing the envelope can be useful information also :)
12:05] Fly Man: Blaksmith, even when you shutdown the service
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention blow out all the past experimenting we have done
12:05] Fly Man: it will show you exactly what it's been doing
12:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: the visitor monitor causes instabilities
12:05] Fly Man: and what functions are "fast" and "slow"
12:05] Blaksmith Rubble: I do get a few shut-down errors.. so ok
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and Im all for running on stock mono
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: whatever is best
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i was tired of rebooting 35 times a day
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: so i tried to make things better
12:05] Nebadon Izumi: which i did
12:06] sim core: ( Might be best to change server, maybe )
12:06] Charles Krinke: I respect your work, Nebadon.
12:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: I had a region that crashed once a day with the visitor monitor - without it runs 24 hours without problems
12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but really, i do want whats best for the project
12:06] Dahlia Trimble: not a problem Nebadon, it depends on the goals for WP
12:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: once an hour*
12:06] Blaksmith Rubble: I'll toss it on my biggest region ...
12:06] Nebadon Izumi: most of the problems were pre 2.0.1 on this box
12:06] Nebadon Izumi: things really did stablize quite a bit going from 1.9.1 to 2.0.1 here
12:06] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: is that just basicaly a sensor/timer?
12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think we will see much differnce reverting to a stock 2.0.1
12:06] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely run about the same
12:07] Nebadon Izumi: but use a hair more ram
12:07] Charles Krinke: I would tend to agree
12:07] Dahlia Trimble: if the goals are to test opensim in a production environment and provide development feedback, then it should use widely used confifurations
12:07] Teravus Ousley: probably TuX.. but it's registering as executing 950 lines of code per second :)
12:07] Blaksmith Rubble: restarting maze with the flag now... will have to incorporate that into my update script though hehe
12:07] Nebadon Izumi: sure i agree
12:07] Dahlia Trimble: if the goal is uptime and stability for WP, then do what you need
12:07] Nebadon Izumi: in the past the goal was to stabilze this region
12:07] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:07] Nebadon Izumi: nothing opensim or mono stock was working
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: so i forged ahead with some new things
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: and it worked
12:08] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
12:08] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I have something similar, I'll check it when I login to OSgrid too
12:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: certain rules based on experiences anyway need to exist
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: so its obvious we were basing our goals
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: on a broken version of mono at that point
12:08] Fly Man: And Charles, to answer 1 Question you asked on the Dev list
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but now we are beyond that
12:08] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: if our focus is 2.0.1 consider me onboard
12:08] Nebadon Izumi: im all for it
12:09] Fly Man: Yes, Groups will be available
12:09] Nebadon Izumi: at the time the focus was 1.9.1
12:09] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think we yet have a core consensus on which version to target,
12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt sign off on that
12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i wont agree to 1.9.1
12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but 2.0.1 has the greenlight from me
12:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: 2.x is great, but it is not mature yet
12:09] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
12:10] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have much problems with 2.x (2008211)
12:10] Charles Krinke: Based on talking with SDague and others, 2.0.1 seems better then 1.9 or 1.9.1 mono.
12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes 1.9.1 was always considered a beta release
12:10] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.0
12:10] Nebadon Izumi: 2.0.1 is the 1st official release of mono
12:10] Richardus Raymaker: sorry 20081211
12:10] Nebadon Izumi: we need to focus on it
12:10] Teravus Ousley needs to get back to work.. so take care.. see you in the IRC :)
12:10] Nebadon Izumi: later Ter thanks for coming
12:10] Dahlia Trimble: I would suggest that one target may be that which is widely available in rental server installations
12:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Teravus
12:10] Fly Man: And 1 other thing:
12:10] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: see ya Teravus
12:11] Dahlia Trimble: bye Ter :)
12:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye teravus
12:11] Nebadon Izumi: sure but again 1.9.1 is an incomplete bete version
12:11] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ciao teravus
12:11] Fly Man: Please find a large place for rhe Meetings ;)
12:11] Meadhbh Cookies: cheers, T
12:11] Nebadon Izumi: 2.0.1 is the official release
12:11] Charles Krinke: I need to get back to work, too. This has been an *interesting* meeting.
12:11] Teravus Ousley is Offline
12:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: I guess that the final mono 2.3 will be the first really good mono
12:11] Nebadon Izumi: why are we going to base our future on a incomplete beta release
12:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Charles
12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt make sense to me
12:11] Charles Krinke: I can see we have a ways to go to get our testing environment more consistent.
12:11] Charles Krinke: bye
12:11] Fly Man: Infinite, can I ask you a Q ?
12:11] Charles Krinke is Offline
12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: you can ask
12:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I would, maybe, focus on the mono rev. in the recomended versions
12:12] Dahlia Trimble: I should go too... bye all, thanks for the discussion :)
12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and im not in any rush Dahlia
12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: i may not be able to answer til the end of the month
12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i think we should take our time
12:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Dahla
12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
12:12] Fly Man: What is your role at Linden Labs ?
12:12] Nebadon Izumi: we should not be forcing anything on anyone
12:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Bye Dahlia
12:12] Biskit Maker: tomorrow?
12:12] Biskit Maker: ;)
12:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: lol... no comment
12:12] Dahlia Trimble is Offline
12:12] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:12] Blaksmith Rubble: well, i'm very impressed about the meeting today ... I didn't crash once! .. usually, the client crashes out on me at least 2x
12:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea what a great meeting
12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: technically i'm a software architect
12:12] Fly Man: Good :)
12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: hired to work on OGP
12:12] Richardus Raymaker: maby its simpler to say what version not to use.
12:12] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: yes very good
12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool$
12:13] Fly Man: So, you're like Whump
12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: when will it be possibel to use hypergrid with the main sl grid? :)
12:13] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: good news about OGP!!
12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
12:13] Meadhbh Cookies: but... after the top-to-bottom review, i've been tasked with a number of other items
12:13] Meadhbh Cookies: mostly stability and security
12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: and... in theory... we're going to make a clear... positive statement about Open Interop and SL at the end of the month
12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: er
12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: next month
12:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool
12:14] Fly Man: Good
12:14] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ++
12:14] Richardus Raymaker: nice. cool.
12:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think it is important also for LL to open up to grow virtual worlds even further
12:15] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: will work proceed on it at a good pace?
12:15] Meadhbh Cookies: you and me both, Snoopy
12:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
12:15] Richardus Raymaker: but we can wait , until thats ask why inventory from sl dont work here. after ogp teleport :O
12:15] Fly Man: Welcome to the Office Hours then Infinite :)
12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: thx. actually... i think whump's going to be here a lot more often than me
12:16] Fly Man: And I hope to see you again next week ;)
12:16] Richardus Raymaker: but it makes things easyer if i can go fro my home here to sl.
12:16] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:16] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: seems that a lot was accomplished in a fairly short time when OGP beta was announced
12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: i'm just here to make sure any linden directed questions get answered
12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: while whump's on vacation
12:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes sl can become a main hub in the open virtual world
12:16] Fly Man: Oo, I thought Zero was here for a moment
12:16] Fly Man: or Babbage
12:16] Fly Man: but I might have seen ghosts then
12:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: growing by opening borders :)
12:16] Kevin Paisley: wasnt any office hours today for zero i dun think
12:17] Fly Man: But here's a present :D
12:17] Fly Man: Then you will look a bit more "Non-newbie"
12:17] Meadhbh Cookies: umm...
12:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
12:17] Fly Man: Or do you need a female one ;p ?
12:17] Meadhbh Cookies is a girl
12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: also visit my shop at Samsara hehe
12:18] sim core: Hehe
12:18] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: haa
12:18] Fly Man: No Problem there ;)
12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks
12:18] Fly Man: I have both :p
12:18] Meadhbh Cookies: thx
12:18] Nebadon Izumi: oh
12:18] Nebadon Izumi: Fly Man
12:18] Meadhbh Cookies: i dunno though... a bit of nostalgia being all ruthified
12:18] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ok
12:18] Fly Man: And Snoopy will get your some nice clothes ;)
12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: happy new year
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: I instaleld the OpenSIM wi search stuff
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i go to my grid
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and it doesnt work right
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: :))
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: i registed an event
12:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Carlos
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and it shows in world
12:19] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: on Jan 1
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: but look at it
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: the info is wrong
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: visit me on cyberlandia
12:19] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: see ya Carlos
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: :))
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: i only get 1 parcel to choose from
12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ciao
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: to register an event
12:19] Fly Man: Nebadon, then I think you need to get the Plaza Builder out
12:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol I always forgot :)
12:19] Fly Man: as the terrain is on his name ;)
12:19] Nebadon Izumi: damn
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: who offered friend
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: i accidfently cancled
12:20] Kevin Paisley: had someone offer friendship to me yesterday and it said that "Kevin Paisley" was offering friendship :P
12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: who is that?
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: it saysim im offering myself friendship
12:20] Meadhbh Cookies: yup. i just got that too
12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: strange
12:20] Fly Man: But Snoopy, take care of Infinite ;)
12:20] Blaksmith Rubble: lol
12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: it should be me
12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online
12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I will
12:20] Fly Man: She will love your clothing shop
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh ok it was you
12:20] Nebadon Izumi: but wierd
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: it said "Nebadon Izumi is offering you friendship"
12:21] Fly Man: Welcome aboard Infinite :)
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but Flyman
12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: hmm... wait... was the meeting at 11 or at Noon?
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: go to http://osgrid.org
12:21] Fly Man: Nebadon, I will
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: log in with your account
12:21] Blaksmith Rubble: 11
12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: ugh
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: then click "Home"
12:21] sim core: 1900utc
12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: sorry about being late then
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: the sub menu wont show unless you click Home
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: its hidden for now
12:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: now you are in my friends list
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: so as not to draw to much attention
12:21] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw
12:21] Nebadon Izumi: cool you are in mine now too
12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: there is also a bug with ppl from other grids
12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: you can friend them
12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: even ims work
12:22] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..
12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: but the next time you log in the server complains that your friend is unknown
12:22] Meadhbh Cookies: okay... i'm gonna trundle along and try to cram 8 weeks of work into the few remaining hours left in Q4
12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: and when you delete that friend Hippo crashes
12:22] Meadhbh Cookies: happy hogmanay everyone
12:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks :)
12:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think hypergrid still needs some tests with friends
12:23] Fly Man: I think HG needs about everything tested ;)
12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes lol
12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: but it was cool to have a friend from another world lol
12:24] sim core: Hg needs viewable neighbours, I think
12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: only that user is unknown here
12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: as soon as he logs out at least
12:25] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, we need OGP friends too
12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: but that would also mean cross world ims :)
12:25] Blaksmith Rubble: well, I think it's time to go vanish, and get back to RL work /blah/ ..
12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: that would be cool
12:25] sim core: :-J
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: we can try it
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: when you accept
12:26] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: haa
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks
12:26] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: very cool
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: now we are friends over grid borders
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
12:26] Blaksmith Rubble waves and poofs
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: I can send you ims
12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Blaksmith
12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: g'bye Blacksmith
12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, frinds may work in OGP, never tried
12:27] sim core: Bye all :-)
12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: it cannot load your profile
12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: so I cannot send you an im
12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: strange
12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: bye sim core
12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: that did work some weeks before
12:28] Kevin Paisley: take care everyone :D was swe;;
12:28] Kevin Paisley: swell too
12:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Kevin