Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-09

[10:04] You: say list
[10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 0
[10:14] Teravus Ousley is Online
[10:14] You: hello
[10:14] You: say list
[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch
[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 2
[10:15] You: hello
[10:15] Teravus Ousley: Heya nebadon.. am I early?
[10:15] You: heh no earlier than i am
[10:15] You: :P
[10:15] Harrison Partch: hey teravus remember me?
[10:16] You: but yea we have a good 45 minutes
[10:16] You: i just restarted everything though
[10:16] You: were all set
[10:16] Teravus Ousley: No, I don't remember who you are Harrison. I'm a loony.. of course I remember who you are.
[10:16] Harrison Partch: you have real avatars now.
[10:16] You: heh yea
[10:16] Harrison Partch: how can i ditch this ruth?
[10:17] You: you just have to create a new shape in your inventory
[10:17] Harrison Partch: i wanna be a furry like in sl
[10:17] You: then wear it
[10:17] Teravus Ousley: unfortunately, a lightning thing took out one of my computers and.. well that was that
[10:17] You: ah, well at this point its roll your own avatars
[10:17] You: hehe
[10:17] Harrison Partch: k
[10:17] You: this suit im wearing is a modified version of a female suit of armor my group sells in SL
[10:18] Harrison Partch: i think i am almost ready to take on a sim of my own.
[10:18] You: i ported the basics over with Second Inventory
[10:18] You: then redid it here in opensim for male avatar
[10:18] Harrison Partch: ready in intention. maybe not in expertise.
[10:18] Harrison Partch: Second Inventory. Aha. Sounds useful.
[10:18] You: yea its a blessing and a curse
[10:18] You: hehe
[10:19] Teravus Ousley: something tells me that fountain is on a bit too high.. you need to lower the strength of the water a bit
[10:19] You: the sound?
[10:19] Harrison Partch: i must do a google on it then.
[10:19] Teravus Ousley: no..
[10:19] Teravus Ousley: Just .. the water is going outside of the fountain.
[10:19] You: lol
[10:19] Harrison Partch: this server seems to run faster than SL
[10:20] Harrison Partch: prolly cause few people here
[10:20] You: yea there isnt much going on here either though really
[10:20] Harrison Partch: k I gots another question
[10:20] You: though it does run quite well for what is here
[10:20] You: and for how far along opensim is
[10:20] Harrison Partch: i want to start a sim for a particular purpose.
[10:21] Harrison Partch: So that certain people can meet and build and decorate and, mostly, talk
[10:21] Harrison Partch: people who now post on certain sites
[10:22] Harrison Partch: sites which discuss subjects which would be against SL terms of service
[10:22] You: what subjects are against TOS?
[10:23] Harrison Partch: racial nationalism
[10:23] Harrison Partch: for instance
[10:23] Harrison Partch: question: can we join our sim to the grid but institute controls
[10:24] Harrison Partch: so that noone can wander in by mistake to be offended?
[10:24] You: hmm i dont think so
[10:24] You: can we Ter?
[10:24] You: out permissions system is pretty limited
[10:24] Harrison Partch: i would need a standalone sime then.
[10:25] Teravus Ousley: well, technically as long as the grid allows it.. you can do parcel bans.
[10:25] You: eventually we will be able to
[10:25] You: hmm yea we do allow that
[10:25] Teravus Ousley: Some grids may not allow that though
[10:25] You: i didnt think it worked though
[10:25] Teravus Ousley: it's a policy
[10:25] Harrison Partch: see, myself, i would not likely offend anyone
[10:25] Harrison Partch: but you can't control users
[10:25] Harrison Partch: so i would like to have a lot of privacy
[10:25] You: can you do a wide ban that prevents everyone access
[10:26] You: accpet a white list
[10:26] You: ?
[10:26] You: is that possible Ter?
[10:26] Harrison Partch: and then we'll need to moderate heavily and kick people out
[10:26] Teravus Ousley: I don't think so.. ckrinke was 'eh' on it .. so I didn't bother implementing it right now
[10:26] You: yea
[10:26] Harrison Partch: to prevent disruption
[10:26] You: id like to have it myself
[10:26] You: so i can build without interuption
[10:26] You: people going over borders while i build kills me
[10:27] Harrison Partch: i like that duck who made it?
[10:27] You: i did
[10:27] You: hehe
[10:27] You: its copy
[10:27] Harrison Partch: what was that import program called?
[10:27] You: second inventory
[10:27] You: its sort of limited
[10:27] You: you can only do stuff you have full perms on
[10:27] You: alot of textures still dont make it
[10:28] You: you cant do multi object items
[10:28] You: only single objects
[10:28] You: sometimes its almost easier to just start over
[10:28] Harrison Partch: i would prefer voxels to polys.
[10:28] Harrison Partch: did you know i write voxel raytracers obsessively?
[10:28] You: heh, i think i remember you now
[10:29] You: your the voxel guy
[10:29] You: lol
[10:29] Teravus Ousley: yep
[10:29] You: hehe
[10:29] Teravus Ousley: you aught to work on a voxel based client
[10:29] Harrison Partch: hey, if you make me a furry av here i will pay you in SL
[10:29] Harrison Partch: I have been thinking about it
[10:29] You: heh, i dont have the time to be honest
[10:30] You: i spend every waking moment testing opensim and keeping this grid running
[10:30] You: hehe
[10:30] Harrison Partch: how about just some avatar not this stupid ruth thing?
[10:30] Teravus Ousley: I'm tossed between working.. and working on OpenSim also.. so not likely for me.
[10:30] Harrison Partch: i can build one i know and i should.
[10:30] You: yea its not hard
[10:30] Teravus Ousley was implementing attachments and made this
[10:30] You: check over in freebie garden
[10:30] You: i made a pose stand
[10:30] You: that works proper
[10:30] Harrison Partch: eve use qavimator?
[10:30] You: yea
[10:31] You: not good
[10:31] You: but ive used it
[10:31] You: hehe
[10:31] Harrison Partch: i have tried it but never imported bvh to SL
[10:31] Teravus Ousley prefers poser
[10:31] You: yea poser is much better
[10:31] You: qavimator is good for free though
[10:31] You: the animations are not real fluid though
[10:31] You: unless you spend a month
[10:31] Teravus Ousley got poser free during the 5.0 free deal last year.. it was free for 30 days
[10:32] You: heh nice
[10:32] Warin Cascabel: Good $TIME_OF_DAY.
[10:32] You: i havent used poser in a while
[10:32] You: hehe hello Warin
[10:32] Teravus Ousley: 6.0 was the latest at the time.. for a little while.. so they had a 1 month promotion on 5.0
[10:32] Harrison Partch: poser s commercial i see
[10:32] You: yea
[10:32] You: its not cheap either
[10:32] You: student version is cheap
[10:32] Harrison Partch: i use all open stuff
[10:32] You: its like 79$
[10:32] Harrison Partch: on linux
[10:33] You: ah yea
[10:33] You: no poser on linux
[10:33] Warin Cascabel: Might run under Wine, unless there's copy-protection.
[10:33] You: there likely is
[10:33] Warin Cascabel: I used to use Animation:Master, but neither the disk-based nor HASP copy-protection would work.
[10:33] You: some kind of protection
[10:34] You: atleast poser 7 anyway
[10:34] You: not sure about earlier versions
[10:34] Harrison Partch: http://www.youtube.com/user/xenopusRTRT
[10:34] Teravus Ousley: yeah, I doubt it.. it makes use of lots of funky windows stuff that probably wouldn't work stupendiously on WINE
[10:34] Harrison Partch: some voxel stuff to annoy you
[10:34] You: yea
[10:35] You: the poser interface is far from standard too
[10:35] Teravus Ousley: True.. it isn't.. but some say it's easier then .. blender
[10:35] You: heh yea
[10:35] Warin Cascabel: Hahaha.
[10:35] You: i can agree with that
[10:35] Harrison Partch: well, OK. I will do more research on getting a server. Then if the region privacy stuff isn't implemented soon enough I can run standalone.
[10:35] You: blender is like a bad dream
[10:35] You: where your falling
[10:35] You: with no bottom
[10:36] Teravus Ousley: blender is difinately.. 'different'. But cool in it's own way
[10:36] Harrison Partch: I like you guys. You are programmers.
[10:36] Warin Cascabel: No, no, no - it's like a fantastic dream where you're surrounded by everything you ever wanted... but you try to get to it and end up miles away from where you were trying to reach.
[10:36] You: hehe
[10:36] Harrison Partch: Can blender be used for bvh animations?
[10:36] You: hmm
[10:36] You: im not sure
[10:36] You: its likely there is some path from blender to bvh
[10:36] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure.. but I doubt it.. it was more designed to be a modeler then an animator
[10:36] Warin Cascabel: I'm fairly sure it can, but I haven't tried it yet.
[10:36] You: wether it be direct or through conversion
[10:36] Warin Cascabel: ...
[10:37] Teravus Ousley: maybe some plugin will let you... *shrugs*
[10:37] Warin Cascabel: Teravus, you need to check out where blender is *now*. It's definitely an animator now.
[10:37] Harrison Partch: ok i should run it has been refreshing to talk.
[10:37] Teravus Ousley: oh? hehe
[10:37] Harrison Partch: l8r allig8rs
[10:37] Warin Cascabel: Here... a short animation produced entirely with Blender: http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/
[10:37] Teravus Ousley last used the version where they were just implementing tablet drawing on mesh models
[10:38] Teravus Ousley: unfortunately.. sculpties didn't really accept the resolution I wanted to do my 'clay shaping' in
[10:39] Teravus Ousley: It was always orders of magnitudes less detailed then I wanted it to be :D
[10:39] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, sculpties are pretty limited... unless you use lots of them and blend them seamlessly.
[10:39] You: yea
[10:39] You: sculpty was never intented to replace whole linksets
[10:39] You: just give them more definition
[10:39] Warin Cascabel: Still, they're a nice addition to the toolbox.
[10:39] You: yea
[10:39] You: i think theres more efficient ways though
[10:40] You: good for now
[10:40] Warin Cascabel: I still haven't worked out how to get razor-sharp edges like I've seen with them. Like your staircases in the freebie garden, Nebadon.
[10:40] Teravus Ousley: yeah.. at the moment.. they're best done procedurally..
[10:40] You: i made those with a free sculpt tool
[10:40] You: hehe
[10:40] Warin Cascabel: Bah, it figures.
[10:41] Teravus Ousley: a procedural tool can factor in every last vertex and shape it into something nifty and easy to texture
[10:41] You: http://www.xs4all.nl/~elout/sculptpaint/
[10:41] You: but
[10:41] You: i prefer tatara for things besides stairs
[10:41] Warin Cascabel: Nifty, thanks.
[10:41] You: http://kanae.net/secondlife/tatara.html
[10:42] Teravus Ousley: I made a flower.. but the darn java program froze more times then it actually produced something reasonable
[10:42] You: yea
[10:42] You: sculpt paint is a pain in the ass
[10:42] Warin Cascabel: Heh.
[10:42] Warin Cascabel: Blender and I have achieved an uneasy understanding of each other.
[10:42] You: hehe
[10:43] Teravus Ousley: well, for what I use it for now.. it's pretty easy to use
[10:43] You: i need to learn mroe about the basics of blender
[10:43] Warin Cascabel: They've actually done a lot of good work on documenting.
[10:43] Teravus Ousley: .. visualizing the output of prim-->mesh in physics for OpenSimulator
[10:43] Warin Cascabel: Their tutorials actually pertain to the current version now...
[10:43] Teravus Ousley: haha
[10:43] Warin Cascabel: First time I tried to learn Blender, their tutorials were all for a previous version, and about half the keystrokes and parameter locations had changed.
[10:44] UUID Speaker: Warin Cascabel, your key is 190482f8-b1bc-4c36-aa8d-cfb36c8fea61
[10:46] Warin Cascabel: Reading #opensim-dev, I'm really glad I migrated to MySQL...
[10:46] Teravus Ousley: Hi!
[10:46] Warin Cascabel: Hello!
[10:46] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. gestures work?
[10:46] Warin Cascabel: I wasn't watching... try it again?
[10:46] You: i dont think so
[10:46] You: only locally
[10:47] You: i dont think we will see or hear the gesture
[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:47] Warin Cascabel: I saw the text, but nothing else.
[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:47] Teravus Ousley: I typed
[10:47] Teravus Ousley: haha.. / aw
[10:47] Teravus Ousley made the trigger '/ aw'
[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there any sound or animation with that gesture?
[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Or just the text?
[10:48] Teravus Ousley: no, just the text so far..
[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Oh. Well, in that case, it worked. :)
[10:49] You: cool
[10:49] You: thats a start
[10:49] You: hehe
[10:49] Warin Cascabel: Heh.
[10:49] You: now i can make my spam shout
[10:49] You: lol
[10:49] Warin Cascabel: Wheee. :)
[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:49] Teravus Ousley: do you see me autographing?
[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:49] You: do again
[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:49] You: wasnt looking
[10:50] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:50] Warin Cascabel: Yes, I saw it.
[10:50] You: yea
[10:50] Teravus Ousley: ok.. so we at least have text and animations
[10:50] You: cool
[10:50] You: wonder when that started working
[10:50] Warin Cascabel: /gesture
[10:50] Warin Cascabel: bah.
[10:50] Warin Cascabel: Hmph, doesn't seem to be working for me.
[10:51] You: probably the animation prioroty
[10:51] You: thats still aproblem i think
[10:51] You: only certain priority animations seem to work proper
[10:51] Warin Cascabel: Ah.
[10:51] You: the highest prioroty ones
[10:51] You: not quite sure why
[10:52] You: i havent had much desire to chase it
[10:52] You: kind of low priority
[10:52] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, far too many other things on the plate.
[10:52] You: yea theres many things that i could probably mantis, but have held off on it
[10:52] You: because its such a low prioroty
[10:53] Warin Cascabel: I'm trying to figure out how to get the region sun parameters working right, because I'm tired of having to go in and set up my sun every time I restart.
[10:53] Warin Cascabel: Not to mention the trial-and-error to get it where I want it.
[10:53] You: yea
[10:54] Warin Cascabel: This probably isn't the easiest project to try and learn C# for, though.
[10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture
[10:54] Teravus Ousley didn't hear the audio
[10:54] Warin Cascabel: Nope, no audio here.
[10:54] You: yea same
[10:54] You: nothin
[10:55] Warin Cascabel: Then again, I didn't even hear typing until I'd been here for about ten minutes.
[10:55] Teravus Ousley gave you test.
[10:55] You: heh
[10:55] Warin Cascabel: LOL
[10:55] Chris D is Online
[10:55] Neas Bade is Online
[10:55] You: that was me
[10:55] You: i hit play in world
[10:55] You: did you hear it?
[10:56] Teravus Ousley: nope
[10:56] You: hmm
[10:56] Teravus Ousley: just play locally
[10:56] You: i did
[10:56] Warin Cascabel: I heard it when I played it locally.
[10:56] Primitive whispers: booting up sound orb.
[10:56] Primitive whispers: bootup complete.
[10:56] Warin Cascabel: Odd... if I try to play a sound in world, I don't hear it.
[10:56] Teravus Ousley: I heard that one
[10:56] You: hehe
[10:56] You: yea this is scripted
[10:57] You: lol
[10:57] Primitive whispers: playing sound
[10:57] Primitive whispers: Stoping sound
[10:57] You: shutUP
[10:57] You: lol
[10:57] Warin Cascabel: Heh.
[10:57] Teravus Ousley: haha
[10:57] Neas Bade: oh no, movie voices
[10:57] You: lol
[10:57] You: heh your invisible still for me
[10:57] You: no cloud of gas either
[10:57] You: oh
[10:57] You: and there you are
[10:57] Teravus Ousley: I see Mr Neas
[10:57] Chris D is Offline
[10:58] You: yea just became visible for me
[10:58] Teravus Ousley: otherwise known as S-Dog....
[10:58] Neas Bade: still had to rebake
[10:58] You: all i saw was hovering name before
[10:58] You: ahh
[10:58] Neas Bade: :)
[10:58] You: say list
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade
[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 5
[10:58] Warin Cascabel: I usually see a hovering name until I move my camera close to it. Then I see the person.
[10:58] Chris D is Online
[10:58] You: yea i didnt move cam
[10:58] You: its been static
[10:59] You: i setup a bigger area upstairs
[10:59] You: with more couches
[10:59] You: dunno if anyone else is coming though
[10:59] You: hehe
[10:59] Charles Krinkeb is Online
[10:59] Charles Krinkeb: morning
[10:59] You: things seem to be alot more stable here under Xengine
[10:59] You: morning charlesa
[10:59] Teravus Ousley: so apparently gestures work for text exclaimations and animations
[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Charles
[11:00] You: charles
[11:00] Neas Bade: hey charles
[11:00] Teravus Ousley shouts: HI!
[11:00] Neas Bade: man, the sound is warbly today
[11:00] Whump Linden: Hey.
[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: Question if i may. Justin made a change over the weekend that *might* help the "new user request denied". Has the frequency gone down or remained the same?
[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Howdy.
[11:00] You: hello Whump
[11:00] Neas Bade: I'm also getting crap fps
[11:00] Neas Bade: only 8
[11:01] Teravus Ousley: Hello there bill
[11:01] You: not sure Charles
[11:01] You: i can say Wright Plaza has not stopped accepting logins
[11:01] Warin Cascabel: Hadn't noticed, Charles, sorry.
[11:01] You: but Zaius did
[11:01] You: once or twice
[11:01] Neas Bade: it's nice that couches are working
[11:01] You: yea
[11:01] Whump Linden: Teravus: we deployed the fix for content type to sim1.vaak.
[11:02] BlueWall Slade is Online
[11:02] You: i have more couches upstairs
[11:02] You: we could move
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: Whump: any issues as a result
[11:02] Neas Bade: man, there is too much cool detail on WP
[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: No problem. Since Whump is here, maybe we should start with a discussion of interop and how we can help move that forward now that Teravus has so kindly put Zha's patch into svn.
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: ?
[11:02] Neas Bade: I have to turn quality of graphics down to get good fps :)
[11:02] Whump Linden: Not to my knowledge, but we're monitoring.
[11:02] Teravus Ousley: excellent :D
[11:03] Teravus Ousley: I didn't expect there would be.. but who knows.. :D
[11:03] Neas Bade: hmmm, typing animation seems stuck
[11:03] Warin Cascabel: Neas: Do you have another instance of the viewer hanging around in your task list? That's an issue I ran into last week, which really dragged down my fps.
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[11:03] Neas Bade: not that I know of
[11:03] Whump Linden: Thanks Charles, so yesterday we started a discussion of what it would take to get OGP running in grid mode. And that folks have alread been experimenting with it.
[11:03] You: say list
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey
[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 10
[11:03] Neas Bade: yeh, nope
[11:03] Charles Krinkeb: Is sim1.vaak a standalone, Whump? And a follow up question, "Are there sims on OSGrid that we can expect to be running with OGP enabled sometime?"
[11:04] You: hello Justin
[11:04] Neas Bade: hey justing
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks, hello nebadon
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neas
[11:04] You: hehe
[11:04] Neas Bade: hey, Ter, I've been going through the hurliman patch to sqlite, and it seems to really have cratered things
[11:04] Torrance Miles is Online
[11:04] Whump Linden: sim1.vaak is connected to other regions on vaak.
[11:05] Teravus Ousley: ah. Well then we'll have to investigate why. It was cratered for mySQL also.. but I went through and fixed quite a bit
[11:05] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, but I'm curious if you know some places that you were unsure in applying things that might make me smoothing out the issues go faster
[11:05] Chris D: Fermi, Dirac, Pauli and Bohr are all running with OGP enabled.
[11:05] Whump Linden: but you can only OGP tp from the region on vaak that you rez on.
[11:05] Teravus Ousley: It's the same with gridmode here..
[11:05] You: and you can OGP to osgrid from Linden Beta?
[11:05] Neas Bade: I get a sim crash on prim save now it looks like. I need to dig a bit more
[11:05] Whump Linden: but that's the case on any OGP region at the moment.
[11:06] Kurt Stringer is Online
[11:06] Teravus Ousley: .. you can only OGP out of the region you OGP'ed in on.
[11:06] Whump Linden: let me spin up another viewer and see if I can rez on Fermi
[11:06] You: ah
[11:06] Teravus Ousley: and.. it works across instances.
[11:06] Charles Krinkeb: Are there any issues in running OGP on your regions, ChrisD? Would you recommend I run it on my regions, for instance?
[11:06] Teravus Ousley: ... but teleporting out .. you must be on the same instance of OpenSim.exe
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Charles
[11:06] Teravus Ousley: any region within that instance will do.
[11:07] Charles Krinkeb: hi, justin. great to see you again.
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: it's not enabled per-region, but per-simulator
[11:07] Teravus Ousley: Well, it's a shared module
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you too - I'm still attuned to pacific time so I've only just had lunch
[11:07] Neas Bade: heh
[11:07] Chris D: Dirac is theregion that you need to rez on. The problem is it is above the 4096 limit :( http://dirac.vworlds.co.uk:9000
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yet it's 8pm in the evening...
[11:07] Teravus Ousley: .. so you turn it on.. and it works for all regions.. though it'll find a random one to put you in.
[11:08] Whump Linden: Yes, that's a concern. I'm going to have to see what can be done in the viewer about that bug.
[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: which brings up an interesting administrative point. In talking with folks, I believe we will keep this "Office Hour" at 1900UTC when the US goes off daylight savings time for the Winter.
[11:09] Teravus Ousley: Yeah. I put a note on that bug.. asking if it was really closed.. because unfortunately it'll become an issue probably within the next two years.
[11:09] Charles Krinkeb: SDague. FYI. I believe Nebadon has set this region to xengine recently.
[11:09] You: yes
[11:09] You: but OS functions work
[11:10] You: i made sure of that
[11:10] Primitive: Script running
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: So, a couple of options..
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: We could.. have inventory working in OGP.. But.. there's a few caviots..
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: caveots..
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: 1.. that isn't speced yet..
[11:10] Whump Linden: Okay, I rezzed with OGP on Dirac.
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: so, likely it'll change.. and you may loose stuff
[11:11] Teravus Ousley: 2. In grid mode, that will require that you trust your regions to create grid accounts
[11:12] Teravus Ousley: 2 could be mitigated by putting the OGP service also in the user server.
[11:12] Charles Krinkeb: Are those caveats appropriate for a wiki paragraph on opensimulator.org to guide folks in using OGP?
[11:12] Teravus Ousley: not yet really.. just discussing some of the potential directions for the future.
[11:12] Whump Linden: and probably 3. this may all change
[11:12] OpenSim Agenda Board: Agenda - OGP Status - libopenmv hot spots - 0.6 release status?

[11:13] Teravus Ousley: ahh, yes.. reiterating number 1 :D
[11:13] Charles Krinkeb: Personally, I would say getting the teleport details worked out without inventory stuff is to our advantage at this time.
[11:13] Whump Linden: / interesting, I flew off the edge of dirac
[11:13] Teravus Ousley: Yes. agreed.. though.. There are not really too many issues with teleporting yet..
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: err.. anymore.. and people are starting to get frustrated.. antsy :D
[11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe to a region not running OGP, Whump?
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: can we have inventory on our "home" grid, and forego it on excurssions to other grids?
[11:14] Chris D: You should be able to cross into Fermi, Pauli and Bohr
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: nah, you should be able to succesfully cross into a region not running OGP
[11:14] Whump Linden: Chris D: Dirac appeared as a stand alone region
[11:14] Whump Linden: were it's neighbours up?
[11:15] Teravus Ousley: ping?
[11:15] You: lol
[11:15] You: mic test
[11:15] You: 1 2 1 2
[11:15] You: sibelance
[11:15] Neas Bade: I was just wating for the end of the OGP stuff :)
[11:15] You: :D
[11:16] Whump Linden: k
[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: Any more OGP discussion? Should we move on but allow questions later as we expand the agenda?
[11:17] Whump Linden: So at the moment we know that Teleport works. As you run into issues and create mantises for them, can you create an accompanying JIRA?
[11:17] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Whump.. I'm not sure if you can do this.. however it's been requested that the client attempt to connect to the region with a UUID given to it by the OGP service.
[11:17] Neas Bade: well, in parallel, as we can multithread here, are there common hotspots that happened iwth libopenmv inclusion that we should be looking for in fixing code?
[11:17] Teravus Ousley: .. as opposed to the Aditi UUID
[11:17] Chris D: Jusr checking
[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: Do we need someone to be the focus for joint Mantis/Jira issues and if so, who should it be?
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker is Online
[11:18] Teravus Ousley: Neas. Look for things missing.UUID, and .Guid
[11:18] Neas Bade: I think Ter is our man here
[11:18] Neas Bade: on the OGP front
[11:18] Neas Bade: Ter, yeh that is what broke embedded inventory
[11:18] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe ChrisD can help Teravus on testing reports and wiki if Chris has the time.
[11:18] Neas Bade: prim.ToString instead of prim.UUID.ToString
[11:18] Teravus Ousley: honestly.. the thing that was the most common that I fixed.. was missing .UUID
[11:19] You: wright plaza stats : Show Stats = 328mb 14 agents
[11:19] Neas Bade: so why were all the .UUID stuff stripped?
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: A search and replace failure by Mr H
[11:19] Chris D: Whump: All regions are up and I have successfully logged in via OGP and crossed regions.
[11:19] Whump Linden: Teravus, let's discuss in IRC after the meeting. I'm not sure what all that would affect.
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: kk
[11:19] Neas Bade: sigh
[11:19] Charles Krinkeb: Afternoon, Mic. Welcome.
[11:19] Mic Bowman: hello
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, seeing some interesting NREs on the user service
[11:19] You: top shows 998 virt / 848 res / 45% cpu
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: Hey Mic
[11:20] Mic Bowman: hey teravus...
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Mic
[11:20] You: i think thats 45% of 1 core though
[11:20] Neas Bade: ok, unfortunately from my sniff test this morning, that means our default mode with sqlite is really broken
[11:20] Neas Bade: I'll putter on fixing it as I have time
[11:20] Mic Bowman: the couple of fixes i've had to make post-OMV were on some implicit casts that didn't get caught
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you using top?
[11:20] You: yea its running
[11:20] Neas Bade: Mic, it's worse than that
[11:20] Mic Bowman: i've been running the OMV code now for quite a while
[11:21] Mic Bowman: with only minor problems
[11:21] Neas Bade: Mic, not with sqlite :)
[11:21] Mic Bowman: i can believe that...
[11:21] Neas Bade: unless you've got something way different than that is in tree
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you might want to try htop on wp
[11:21] Mic Bowman: well.. i do have something different than the tree... but not *that* much different
[11:21] Mic Bowman: and no i don't touch sqlite
[11:21] You: top is running on the WP server
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a slightly more colourfil version of top which breaks cpu usage down via the cores
[11:21] You: those stats were for this server
[11:22] You: ah
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: htop also exists on wp - I installed iy myself
[11:22] Mic Bowman: something like that :-)
[11:22] You: well i see 45% on mono
[11:22] You: but 22% on main cpu
[11:22] Neas Bade: well, sqlite is still our default mode, so it is a bit frustrating that the patch wasn't tested on it
[11:22] You: so i can only assume its 1 core
[11:22] You: its a core2
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: You can get top to break things down per core as well
[11:22] You: yea i did that on accident before
[11:22] You: but couldnt figure out how i did it
[11:22] You: hehe
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nabdon: press 1
[11:23] You: k cool
[11:23] Charles Krinkeb: SDague: Would you recommend we continue to test a combination of MySQL and SQLite on OSGrid in the future on various regions?
[11:23] You: nice
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, sqlite needs afixing...
[11:23] Teravus Ousley: well, most of the issues I fixed were in the grid server. It seemed to work ok in standalone for me.
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: puzzling that it broke
[11:23] Teravus Ousley: A few in grid comms..
[11:23] Neas Bade: if we are going to leave sqlite as the default, then we should run it somewhere on osgrid
[11:23] Teravus Ousley: Put the custom types back in for remoting
[11:24] You: i thought charles was primarlity running sqlite
[11:24] You: im sure alot of people are
[11:24] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, however something in content save path takes down the whole sim
[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. I am running SQLite on all my personal regions. I believe all the plazas are MySQL now.
[11:24] You: id wager 50% of the grid is sqlite
[11:24] Neas Bade: which means it will run fine, until you try to rez something new
[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Could this have some bearing on the intermittent reports of inventory disappearing?
[11:24] Neas Bade: then you break hard
[11:24] Neas Bade: charles, yeh, maybe
[11:24] You: my understanding about that
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker is Offline
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: charlies: it might do, if by that people mean that they can't rez stuff....
[11:25] You: is that if you cross over into a region with local assets
[11:25] Neas Bade: embedded inventory was completely gone until the last commit
[11:25] You: your grid inventory gets whacked
[11:25] You: ive had it happen
[11:25] You: eventually it recovers
[11:25] Chris D: That happens with MySQL as well (inventory breakage)
[11:25] Neas Bade: as the select criterai for prim items was wrong
[11:25] You: but there will be a period of confusion
[11:25] You: mixing of grid and local assets is a total disaster right now
[11:25] Mic Bowman: francis just stepped in... has anyone tried the patch we put in 2026(?)
[11:25] Teravus Ousley: haha, was selecting for the name of the type instead of the UUID, right? :D
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker is Online
[11:25] Mic Bowman: for intenveotry cache?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: well, this is the inevitible period of fixing things after the libomv patch I guess :)
[11:25] Charles Krinkeb: SDague and other core developers: "It has been suggested that local assets be discouraged or disabled in gridmode by a few folks?" What do you think?
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have to strongly +1 that, but you know my opinion :)
[11:26] You: i can tell you right now
[11:26] Teravus Ousley: I would agree.. we need tests on both regions
[11:26] You: if you cross from a grid asset region
[11:26] Teravus Ousley: err.. both fronts
[11:26] You: with attaachments
[11:26] You: into local asset region
[11:26] You: kiss your attachments goodbye for ever
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Offline
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: forever?!
[11:26] You: and theres a high chance your inventory will die too
[11:26] You: yes
[11:26] Charles Krinkeb: Does that mean we should work on fixing local assets in grid mode to help the project along?
[11:26] You: i have had dozens of assets lost
[11:26] You: cant wear them anymore
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: so even on a relog things are broken?
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Online
[11:26] You: cant rez them
[11:26] You: nothing
[11:27] You: only option has been to erase them
[11:27] You: and start over
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmm, U
[11:27] Teravus Ousley: haha, good thing I made multiple copies of my attachments!
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess attachment stuff does craete new assets...
[11:27] You: yea i have mine all backed up now
[11:27] You: and i stopped crossing borders
[11:27] You: for this very reason
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and if those are saved into the local region then you're going to be bolloxed
[11:27] You: its unsafe
[11:27] You: i only cross borders in my own regions
[11:27] You: and thats it
[11:28] Charles Krinkeb: Originally, we were encouraging local assets in gridmode so that folks could have confidence they had all their assets on their own hard disk, but it sounds like we have a side-effect now.
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: we could still achieve that
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: by havnig a persistent local asset cache....
[11:28] You: also
[11:28] You: someone running local assets
[11:28] You: if you clear your cache
[11:28] You: and log into a neighbor
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: a long long time ago.. I can still remember when they used to make me smile..
[11:28] You: you cant see any textures or sculpty in their sim
[11:28] You: uless you log directly into it
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yep
[11:29] You: also bad
[11:29] You: very very bad
[11:29] You: lots of problems with local assets on grid
[11:29] You: im currently discouraging it
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: that explain soms grey region somewhere posisble
[11:29] You: yes
[11:29] You: thats is why
[11:29] Teravus Ousley: well, at some point we should be keeping track of the user's grid servers..
[11:29] You: there are many
[11:29] Teravus Ousley: and use that for assets for that user..
[11:29] Charles Krinkeb: I would say if someone decided to use local assets to protect their work, that they should accept side effects. But, we might want to wiki the "side-effects".
[11:30] You: there is no protecting your stuff on osgrid
[11:30] You: i can proclaim that
[11:30] You: 100%
[11:30] Chris D: The problem is oother are suffering the side effects
[11:30] You: local assets or not
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: only protection copy it someway as backup to hdd
[11:30] Chris D: save-oar
[11:30] Warin Cascabel: The "side-effects" include destroying other people's attachments... and not everybody reads the wiki.
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: yup. thats one. SI works sometimes too
[11:30] Teravus Ousley: hehe.. keep a copy of your db/sqldump
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: I think that would be less of a porblem if their region was a separate island
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: and wasn't directly contiguous with other regions
[11:31] You: yea thats what im telling people
[11:31] You: if you want local assets
[11:31] You: move far far way from mainland
[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps we can make the rule that our mainland needs to be all gridassets and local assets should go off somewhere other then 10000,10000.
[11:31] You: there is no way to enforce that
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: is there something like save-oar for inventory?
[11:31] Chris D needs to persuade Taoki to move to grid assets before I rebuild my inventory
[11:31] You: CHris
[11:31] You: she is moving
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not yet, but it is in plan, sortof
[11:31] Whump Linden: something like a private estate model?
[11:31] You: dont worry about it
[11:32] You: she will move her island
[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: We could at least make our recommended configuration for our mainland, perhaps.
[11:32] You: before she fixes it
[11:32] You: until she fixes it
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: sounds reasonable to me
[11:32] Chris D: :)
[11:32] Teravus Ousley: haha, well there's the other thing.. 10000,10000 is represented in scientific notation in the client.. which means that these huge positions are really not supported currently
[11:32] You: in our OSgrid release
[11:32] You: of opensim
[11:32] You: it is
[11:32] You: infact i put new version up last night
[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: BTW. The mini-map shows a region that looks like the Microsoft logo to our south where Taoki used to have her main sim.
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: maybe the grid server can ask ethe region server a question about whigh asset mode it is using?
[11:32] You: also our example configuration is already set for grid assets
[11:33] You: on the instructions page
[11:33] Charles Krinkeb: got it, Nebadon. Sounds like you are covering the bases, good job.
[11:34] Neas Bade: ok, so we should also talk about 0.6
[11:34] Neas Bade: I think
[11:34] You: i think making local assets work better on grids with grid assets would bringe some more stability
[11:34] You: i think alot of problems recently
[11:34] You: are due to this
[11:34] You: inventory issues
[11:34] Charles Krinkeb: However the idea of the gridserver having a dialog with the region for local assets might be a 0.6 or 0.6+ feature worth considering?
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: how would that help?
[11:35] You: alot of peoples inventory are getting hosed
[11:35] Teravus Ousley: well it would implement a 'grid policy'
[11:35] You: on daily basis justin
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: yes, i think that the grid server should be able to enforce policies like that
[11:35] You: crossing into these regions
[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: A config to control a grid policy of some sort?
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: francis and mic are looking at some inventory issues at the moment
[11:35] You: yes
[11:35] Teravus Ousley: We have one for parcel banlists currently
[11:35] You: thats the issue
[11:35] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: ah I see - yes, that could be worth pursuing
[11:35] You: it definatly correlates to local asset regions
[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: just and idea.
[11:35] You: and crossing or coming near them even
[11:35] Neas Bade: I think that's past 0.6 though
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: can the grid policy have also some permisison p
[olice for objects ? one that overrule the region one.
[11:36] Neas Bade: honestly, I think we should try to clean up the rest of the libopenmv breaks and get us back to release state
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: Hey everybody
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: sorry to be late
[11:36] Charles Krinkeb: With that in mind: "What do we need to do to get to a 0.6 release and how far away do we think it might be?"
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately one cannot completely overrule a region, since anybody can just change their region code
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: hi hiro
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I agree
[11:36] Neas Bade: well, we either need to get sqlite fixed
[11:36] Neas Bade: or deprecate it, if everyone is using mysql anyway :)
[11:36] You: heh
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: it could just refuse connection with a message that local asset regions are not allowed ot that they have to reside in a certain location on the grid
[11:37] You: i could certainly live without sqlite
[11:37] You: hehe
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I think we want to retain sqlite./ How badly is it broken?
[11:37] Teravus Ousley: I think we want to retain sqlite
[11:37] You: yea its proper to keep it
[11:37] Neas Bade: I sould definitely use Mic & JHurliman's help sorting out some of the breaks
[11:37] You: no doubt
[11:37] Charles Krinkeb: All my personal regions are running sqlite and dotnetengine, but I will go with the group decision.
[11:37] You: mysql has big learning curve
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: is it all inventory related?
[11:37] Neas Bade: well, right now it takes out the sim after trying to rez something
[11:37] Neas Bade: nope
[11:37] Whump Linden: / yes, for people wanting to get up and running fast, Sqlite is a big win.
[11:37] Neas Bade: not inventory releated at all that I can see
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: SQLite++
[11:38] Neas Bade: there may be breaks there as well
[11:38] Neas Bade: but right now I'm still getting tripped up by region store
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: oh.. but it no longer manifests in mysql I presume?
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: we have a well defined upgrade path to other Db's from it
[11:38] Teravus Ousley: Neas.. one way to do it is to clean out your DBs and open a sqlite3 database in the sqlite3 tool and check out the UUIDs .. to ensure that they are indeed uuids instead of type names
[11:38] You: yea the transition from sqlite to mysql here went super smooth
[11:38] You: could not have gone better
[11:38] You: on Wright Plaza that is
[11:39] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:39] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: i don't know how "well known" the steps aer to most new userse though?
[11:39] You: yea probably not
[11:39] You: the most reliable method is a app on the forge
[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: I was just about to comment on the sqlite thing when my viewer crashed
[11:39] You: though save-oar / load-oar might work for you too
[11:39] You: it may not still though
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:40] You: ouch hiro is crashy todya
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I would appreciate any reports about remaining bugs
[11:40] You: ok for me its been great
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: though I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have to work on things before the weekend
[11:40] You: but i dont want to over promise just yet
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: absolutely
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: whew, again LOL
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: why do we need sqlite?
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: they work 100% for me, but i have low prim regions
[11:40] Teravus Ousley: justin-cc, yes.. that is also the issue for me.
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: noobs
[11:41] Teravus Ousley: Hiro: easy, fast setup
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: ah, isn't having to work for a living the most annoying thing ;)
[11:41] Teravus Ousley: alas
[11:41] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:41] Charles Krinkeb: boy, thats for sure.
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: /shake
[11:41] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:42] Torrance Miles is Offline
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro is up and down like a hoor's drawers today
[11:42] You: yea that sucks
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:42] Teravus Ousley: technically.. I do like my job though..
[11:42] You: maybe isp issues
[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: lol Jcc
[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: nah, just flaky client today
[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: before I crash again...
[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: what does pandering to newbs get us?
[11:42] Teravus Ousley: easy setup
[11:42] Charles Krinkeb: Just an FYI, I am running across an EVDO Cellular modem on the laptop from my office.
[11:42] You: less support
[11:42] You: lol
[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: why is easy setup important?
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: The democratization of the virtual
[11:43] Teravus Ousley: Because it's quick to set-up a region
[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: I dont see it as less support tbh
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: because people with real talent are often not techies? :)
[11:43] Kurt Stringer: lol
[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: it may be on the front end, but once the user has established a region, it almost always turns to trouble
[11:43] Teravus Ousley: .. I know that generally I use SQLite for demos and things where I won't have a mySQL server available
[11:43] You: yea the WAMP i use
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: SQLite makes a good standalone "workstation" too
[11:43] You: i can have mysql working in 3 minutes
[11:44] You: less
[11:44] Neas Bade: yep agreed
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, easy setup doesn't end with initial configuration...
[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: precisely Neb
[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: I just dont buy it that mysql has a high barrier to entry
[11:44] You: but
[11:44] You: on linux
[11:44] You: mysql is not so easy
[11:44] You: not nearly so
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it;'s more awkward on windows
[11:44] You: really
[11:44] Neas Bade: so, some help from people in getting things working with sqlite would be appreciated
[11:44] You: heh
[11:44] Kurt Stringer: heh, I found it easier on Linux
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, it's tres tres easy on mysql
[11:44] Warin Cascabel: Depends on the distro, Nebadon.
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have problems to inbstall mysql on linux
[11:44] You: yea tru
[11:44] You: distro matters
[11:44] eaglefx Binder: yes it is very easy in Linux
[11:44] Teravus Ousley: Yes. It's also a forced dependency if we take out SQLite
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, on Ubuntu
[11:44] You: with the wamp i use
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: windows is not so difficult with xampp
[11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:45] You: it has dev users already setup
[11:45] BlueWall Slade: depends on your preference
[11:45] You: so i dont have to use root out of box
[11:45] Chris D: I setup a new test region with MySql today and setting up the initial DB tokk about 2 minutes max.
[11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:45] You: i use a Development Wamp
[11:45] You: its very easy
[11:45] You: already preconfigured
[11:45] Charles Krinkeb: Do we have a consensus that we *are* supporting SQLite and need to help make it more functional?
[11:45] Teravus Ousley: I personally vote -1 for removing sqlite completely
[11:45] Chris D uses Webmin on Linux
[11:45] Whump Linden: / Mac OS ships with Sqlite. MySQL is a package installer. FYI
[11:45] You: yea i dont support removing it
[11:45] You: even though id love to
[11:45] Hiro Protagonist: I think sqlite is one more thing we spend time on that would be better spent elsewhere
[11:45] You: i dont support it
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker is Offline
[11:45] BlueWall Slade: keep++
[11:46] Charles Krinkeb: keep ++
[11:46] Neas Bade: ok, so volunteers to help root out the openmv bugs?
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: PgSQL++ :)
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker is Online
[11:46] You: hehe
[11:46] Charles Krinkeb: blech
[11:46] You: say list
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder
[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 16
[11:46] Neas Bade: because if early indication is anything, there are a lot of them there
[11:46] Hiro Protagonist: for my part, I generally discourage its use
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: yow
[11:46] Warin Cascabel: Neas: if you'll tell me what to look for, I'll do what I can to help.
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does this mean we're keeping attendee lists now?
[11:46] eaglefx Binder: how about Oracle? will that be an option?
[11:46] You: yes
[11:46] Neas Bade: honestly, just try to run with it
[11:46] Warin Cascabel: Still trying to learn my way around the codebase.
[11:46] You: only i can triger the command though
[11:46] Neas Bade: and report in crashes
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I would like to help but I don't know how much time I'll have in the next few days
[11:46] You: the fancy sculptures at landing point
[11:47] You: are my new sensors
[11:47] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that libomv is actually working pretty good by the end of the weekend.
[11:47] You: that work well in xengine
[11:47] Neas Bade: do all the things that you would normally do in the env
[11:47] Teravus Ousley: yes.. agreed. I'll run a few tests on sqlite after 6PM
[11:47] Neas Bade: charles, not on sqlite
[11:47] Warin Cascabel: Neas: OK, I'll change one of my standalone sims to sqlite and bang on it.
[11:47] Neas Bade: I was really surprised
[11:47] Charles Krinkeb: Ahh. Gotcha.
[11:47] You: im not suprised
[11:47] You: heh
[11:47] Neas Bade: warin, thanks
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: are we talking sqlite just for the region store?
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or asset/inventory, etc as well?
[11:48] Neas Bade: it should be for everything
[11:48] Neas Bade: to find all the different store bugs
[11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:48] Neas Bade: every bit helps
[11:48] You: these libsl/openmv updates generally break everything
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: ah of course, sorry my brain is a little broken
[11:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there a particular Mantis number I should use to report crashes?
[11:48] Neas Bade: but it will help the most if it is everything
[11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:48] Neas Bade: warin, nope, make new ones
[11:48] Warin Cascabel: OK.
[11:48] Neas Bade: and assign them to me
[11:48] Charles Krinkeb: Are there differences in xengine between the usage of MySQL and SQLite also? I got that impression from one of Melanie's recent checkins.
[11:48] Hiro Protagonist: sheesh LOL
[11:48] You: i doubt it charles
[11:49] Neas Bade: charles, I suspect that mysql saves a few more things
[11:49] Neas Bade: but that's about it
[11:49] Kurt Stringer: no shouldnt be
[11:49] Charles Krinkeb: cool
[11:49] You: xengine tends to make the regions run alot better
[11:49] Kurt Stringer goes to look at commit logs...
[11:49] Neas Bade: oh, speaking of xengine, and apparently because I like to open cans of worams
[11:49] You: so either way your probably going to see imrpovments
[11:50] Neas Bade: I really do think we should make that the default
[11:50] Kurt Stringer: lol
[11:50] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that the so-called "Eye Candy" table changes were MySQL and not SQLite from the change log.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi grabs a worm from Neas can
[11:50] Neas Bade: it's getting all the love
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: prim properties?
[11:50] Kurt Stringer: tis true
[11:50] Charles Krinkeb: Then there may be a difference between SQLite and MySQL in running xengine.
[11:51] Neas Bade: yeh, I think that difference is only in some of the sale stuff
[11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[11:51] Neas Bade: it's pretty fringe difference
[11:51] You: yea its nothing thats a show stopper
[11:51] You: probably 1 mantis it would be fixed
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: weren't you hearing that users had other problems too?
[11:51] Teravus Ousley gave you Script_Doesn't_Work_X_Engine.
[11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Online
[11:52] You: hmm
[11:52] You: Ter
[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: uno mas tiepos
[11:52] You: this doesnt work?
[11:52] Whump Linden: / gotta run. If I could get a list of OSGrid regions and region URLs running OGP, that'd be cool.
[11:52] Neas Bade: another thing, have others seen a lot of timer related crashes of late?
[11:52] Charles Krinkeb: I had been hearing numerous differences and incompatibilities, but would defer to Nebadon's opinion on the efficacy of xengine at this time.
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Bill
[11:52] Neas Bade: I think that something is being bad with timers again
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: before we do any default switchin gI would really like to see the LL functions file duplication disappearr
[11:52] eaglefx Binder: i would like to get mine running OGP if thats an option
[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: no timer issues unless I'm on dne
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise it will never happen
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Thanks, Teravus, but my inventory keeps disappearing.
[11:53] Teravus Ousley: eaglefx, you can.. but you need to pick a region position below 4096
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: oh, good grief
[11:53] eaglefx Binder: Ahh ok
[11:53] Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer.
[11:53] Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer.
[11:53] You: sorry
[11:53] Neas Bade: I was considering wrapping Timer so that we could track them a bit better
[11:53] You: hehe
[11:53] You: that was me
[11:53] Francisco Koolhoven: lol
[11:53] eaglefx Binder: hehe
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: is it going to be possible to make the LL duplicate files disappear?
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: without this I'm not sure I could agree to a default engine switch....
[11:54] You: i think thats same script Ter
[11:54] You: yours has more comments though
[11:54] Neas Bade: justin, explain?
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: merely because if we switch engines then we'll continue the confusion as to which file people should be patching...
[11:54] Neas Bade: no, we'll have a new default
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: and if another completely separate engine were to come along anyway, we would again be faced with the issue
[11:55] Neas Bade: we're never getting rid of the duplicate in any real way
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that we can simply just patch the default and leave the other very similar looking file to disappear....
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: yeah, i thought they were both using the shared api file?
[11:55] Neas Bade: not really
[11:55] Hiro Protagonist: I think that work that continues to promote modularity wrt the script engine is good work
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: how so? I don't know myuself since I haven't yet had an opportunity to look at the code
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: a good proportion is very similar....
[11:56] Neas Bade: yes, but similar and the same are quite different
[11:56] Charles Krinkeb: A good proportion is *identical*.
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: there are parts which are identical
[11:56] Neas Bade: basically we currently have a default that gets no development, and a non default that does
[11:57] Charles Krinkeb: About 2/3 of the two files are identical and the balance is *similar*.
[11:57] Neas Bade: if someone wants to really raise the flag and get DNE up to snuff, that's cool
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's an orthogonal argument to eliminating the duplicate LL code
[11:57] Neas Bade: not really
[11:57] Neas Bade: because there is a lot of time to invest in removed duplication
[11:57] Neas Bade: and it is a moving target
[11:57] Kurt Stringer: neas: agreed
[11:57] Hiro Protagonist: the thing is, it makes absolutely no sense to persist in using a default that is not being actively developed
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that the time investment is huge to refactor out the parts which are currently identical
[11:57] Hiro Protagonist: especially in an alpha project
[11:57] Neas Bade: Hiro: +1
[11:58] Kurt Stringer: it is getting attention, but at a rate of 1/10
[11:58] Neas Bade: Justin, you signing up for it?
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well, things are heavily skewed by Melanie
[11:58] Hiro Protagonist: they arent skewed LOL
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I will sign up to factor out the duplication before doing a default switch
[11:58] Hiro Protagonist: she is working full time is all
[11:58] Neas Bade: it really doesn't matter who skews what
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: can the differences in the function be set by configuration if they were combined?
[11:58] Kurt Stringer: bu tthe things being fixed are not in the common code
[11:58] Neas Bade: it's still lines of code
[11:58] You: heh careful chris, i think that prim likes you
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: sure, but if Melanie went then both engines would be getting the same attention level
[11:59] Neas Bade: outsiders are patching xengine more
[11:59] Hiro Protagonist: the same could be said of anyone here and their code
[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Actually, both LSL files are nearly at the same level and more functions are implemented in the dotnetengine original then the xegine copy.
[11:59] Kurt Stringer: only about half of the changes were Mel
[11:59] Neas Bade: yeh, we should definitely remove sqlite then, as I'm the main one that fixes it :)
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I've seen patches to the ll scripting on both engines
[11:59] Hiro Protagonist: :)
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: All the significant stuff is Mel, apart from the LL wrappers
[11:59] Kurt Stringer: Charles - not sure about that
[12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I am
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: for the last few days :)
[12:00] Kurt Stringer: just counting Not Implementeds doesnt work
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: I acutually do use sqlite most of the time.
[12:00] Kurt Stringer: thats why it takes me so long to update status
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: .. but alas, I had it on mysql over the weekend.. in standalone too
[12:01] Neas Bade: ter, it was just a joke, didn't mean anything by it
[12:01] Charles Krinkeb: I need to go back to work. On this thing we are going in circles and perception has outstripped reality.
[12:01] Hiro Protagonist: that's why I didnt plus 1 it :)
[12:01] Neas Bade: xengine is definitely getting more community attention as well as core attension
[12:01] Charles Krinkeb is Offline
[12:01] You: yea its defiantly more stable
[12:01] Neas Bade: which makes it a no brainer to default to it
[12:01] You: and more functional now
[12:01] You: the last couple days
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not denying that, but we should not let dne deliberately break such that people can't pick it up again right now
[12:01] Neas Bade: it is way more stable and more robust
[12:01] You: yea
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that we need to look at eliminating code duplication first
[12:02] You: if it were dcoupled
[12:02] You: it wouldnt matter
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: I have been using it for a good while now
[12:02] You: so were not updating both constantly
[12:02] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Zero meeting
[12:02] Teravus Ousley: see yas!
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: then main thing wrong with it, is the lack of prim property persistence
[12:02] You: later Ter
[12:02] You: yea
[12:02] Hiro Protagonist: that's been fixed (mostly?)
[12:02] Teravus Ousley is Offline
[12:02] Neas Bade: justin, ok, any chance I can pin you into a time frame for refactoring before a switch?
[12:02] You: in xengine thats fixed
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: which isn't part of the engine
[12:02] You: in DNE its never worked right
[12:02] Neas Bade: so it isin't forever :)
[12:03] You: DNE is soo far behind right now
[12:03] You: its already broken
[12:03] Hiro Protagonist: oh, thought y'all were talking about xe
[12:03] Neas Bade: yeh, agreed
[12:03] You: in that regard
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: only if I then get a card which allows me to pin you down to a timing some over time :)
[12:03] Neas Bade: the whole event queue processing on DNE pretty much kills it for large envs really fast
[12:03] You: the last few days really propelled xengine way beyond dne
[12:03] You: DNE probably needs to be rewritten to become as effective
[12:03] Kurt Stringer: well, if I wactually both are broken ;-) but yes Ned - that is true
[12:04] Hiro Protagonist: which wouldnt really be a bad thing if someone were determined to do it
[12:04] Kurt Stringer: Neb sorry
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I meant, other time
[12:04] Neas Bade: well the reason I ask, is because you said you didn't support a default switch before a refactor
[12:04] Hiro Protagonist: I just am not, and Isuspect no one else here is
[12:04] You: that was fixed
[12:04] You: last few days
[12:04] Neas Bade: Ihave not issue with a refactor
[12:04] You: after i mentioned that
[12:04] You: melanie fixed all that
[12:04] You: this region is now Xengine
[12:04] Neas Bade: but if that blocks the default switch, we're going to stay in limbo for a long time
[12:04] You: it doesnt
[12:04] You: this region switched
[12:04] You: seamlesslly
[12:04] You: 2 days ago
[12:04] You: melanie worked it all out
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I will look at it before the end of this month
[12:05] Neas Bade: ok, cool
[12:05] Kurt Stringer: I am willing to do the work, but my job/life will not cooporate
[12:05] You: all my concerns were address
[12:05] Kurt Stringer: ere to continue working on DNE, I need to be able to get the communtiy involved, part of the problem is me having to do it in private
[12:05] You: addressed
[12:05] Neas Bade: it would be nice to default xe before 0.6
[12:05] Neas Bade: as I think it better serves our users
[12:05] You: yea at this point its a better default
[12:05] Hiro Protagonist: +1
[12:05] You: no doubt about that
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: ++
[12:05] You: im not saying depircate DNE
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what do you think?
[12:05] You: but as far as defaults go
[12:06] You: today Xengine is better candidate
[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: no, I think deprecation is premature
[12:06] You: i think charles had to bail
[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: maybe a big note on teh wiki though
[12:06] Neas Bade: yeh, he did
[12:06] You: RL work syndrome
[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: 'this code needs lurve'
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I'm just still hearing that we have issues with xengine
[12:06] You: RLWS as its called in the medical circles
[12:06] Neas Bade: I'm hearing way more issues with DNE
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no problem with making it the default, I would just like us to move cautiously and be able to pick up DNE again if necessary
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: sure - I'm hearing other people have the opposite situation
[12:06] Neas Bade: for what it's worth, every IBM project had to swtich from DNE -> XE
[12:06] You: yea that makes sense
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm going on secondhand head evidence here
[12:07] Neas Bade: DNE didn't work for any of them
[12:07] You: yea try agian
[12:07] Neas Bade: it broke down under scale real fast
[12:07] You: 99.9% chance it will now
[12:07] You: before it was bad
[12:07] You: i agree
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't deny that - but we want to be modular in this project
[12:07] BlueWall Slade: neb - you said melanie fixed it - is that the prim properties?
[12:07] Kurt Stringer: frankly either need much more done
[12:07] You: yea
[12:07] You: most of the script stuff persists now
[12:07] You: including
[12:08] You: the HTML on prim
[12:08] You: the texture persists
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: so you no longer need to watch CHANGED_REGION_RESTART ?
[12:08] You: osDynamicTextures persist now
[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: the only thing I've seen it drop so far is phantome
[12:08] You: lists persist
[12:08] Kurt Stringer: xengine is much more modular, and has state
[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: no blue you dont
[12:08] Neas Bade: justin, yeh, but I think we'll have a better modular story if we get one working fully first, then figure out how to play around with what we want to optimize
[12:08] You: this list
[12:08] You: say list
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Takeshi Hykova
[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 17
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: ok, nice
[12:08] You: will persist a region restart
[12:08] You: it will persist 10 restarts
[12:08] Neas Bade: a lot of the DNE arch is just not going to work beyond toy state
[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: hey Neb
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think we have an opporunity to do something now before we go forward
[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: do you have that script handeh?
[12:08] You: yes
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I will look at the problem
[12:08] You: see the scultpure
[12:08] You: at landing
[12:08] Neas Bade: coolio
[12:08] You: behind you
[12:09] You: grab them
[12:09] Hiro Protagonist: yah
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: if I can't get it done then we just make the default switch anyway
[12:09] You: both are scanner sensors
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming everyone else not here agrees
[12:09] You: they are copy for eveyrone
[12:09] Neas Bade: yep
[12:09] You: so feel free to grab em before you go
[12:09] Kurt Stringer: JCC: take a look at my patch
[12:09] Hiro Protagonist: cool, have done
[12:09] Neas Bade: I'll make sure to bring it up again in a couple of weeks based on what you've figure out
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: is it public? THat would help a lot
[12:09] You: the visitor list only responds to owner currnetly
[12:09] You: i didnt want meetings spammed with user lists
[12:09] You: hehe
[12:10] Kurt Stringer: checked into mantis some weeks ago
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, I will be doing the minimum possible to eliminate code dupes
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no intention of doing a big fix on dne
[12:10] Kurt Stringer: that does not include my latest work though
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: which number?
[12:10] Kurt Stringer: one sec
[12:10] Neas Bade: ok, I need to bail and fix sqlite some more
[12:10] Neas Bade: later folks
[12:10] Neas Bade is Offline
[12:10] Hiro Protagonist: lol
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: bye
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye
[12:11] Kurt Stringer: JCC: 1780
[12:11] You: well im impressed with this regions performance today
[12:11] You: 10000% improvment
[12:11] You: over last month
[12:11] Kurt Stringer: yes!
[12:11] Hiro Protagonist: things have been REALLY stable since ter and jhurliman got the libomv wrinkles rubbed out
[12:11] Chris D is Offline
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: you didn't hear anybody failing to get in today?
[12:11] You: none
[12:11] You: not a single person
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw some slightly funny stuff on the user console a bit earlier
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, cool
[12:11] You: excpt hiro
[12:11] You: lol
[12:11] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, I'm always the anomoly ROFL
[12:11] You: crash master general
[12:12] You: hehe
[12:12] You: he set a new personal record today
[12:12] You: :P
[12:12] Kurt Stringer: gotta go - bye all
[12:12] Hiro Protagonist: lol prolly so
[12:12] You: later
[12:12] Francisco Koolhoven: bye
[12:12] You: great meeting guys
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, thanks kurt
[12:12] BlueWall Slade: g'bye
[12:12] You: i'll post it up on wiki
[12:12] Kurt Stringer is Offline
[12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye
[12:13] Hiro Protagonist: vereh laggy today
[12:13] Hiro Protagonist: I guess lag is better than crashing every few seconds
[12:13] eaglefx Binder: well talking about the Xengine, is that just switching it on in the OpenSim.ini?
[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: pretty much eagle
[12:14] eaglefx Binder: ok
[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: it's no worse to set up than anything else in opensim.ini
[12:14] You: things have been pretty snappy for me this morning
[12:14] You: i was excited about the meeting
[12:14] You: i had a feeling ti would go well today
[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: mine is either network or local-load related I'm sure
[12:15] Warin Cascabel: Might want to set the os functions to true, eaglefx, if you want to take advantage of the extended function set.
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: hehe, a far-cry from a month ago, eh?
[12:15] eaglefx Binder: my sims have been running 3 days now without restart i think ;)
[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: yes, excellent point Warin
[12:15] You: yea a month ago the meeting lasted about 5 minutes
[12:15] You: lol
[12:15] Warin Cascabel: hehe
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: 3 avatars max :)
[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: heh
[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: ok guys
[12:15] You: now i have timers running
[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: I gotta hit the showers
[12:15] You: hehe
[12:15] You: thats a big jump
[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: aaaaaaaarrrrrghhhhh, logouts ahoy?
[12:16] You: ok Hiro
[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
[12:16] Hiro Protagonist: bbiab
[12:16] Hiro Protagonist: :)
[12:16] Hiro Protagonist is Offline
[12:16] BlueWall Slade: see ya Hiro