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[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... Has there been a time change somewhere? We seem to be missing a few people.
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: all hidding bc of trump
[11:03 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's easter
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, That was yesterday.
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: /me grins at Ubit
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Cuga.
[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi Andrew, hi all
[11:07 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Wonder where Gavin is hiding
[11:08 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:08 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hope he's doing ok
[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hey Lyr
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello *grins*
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not much to report on commits this week, problem with iar --merge got reported and fixed, did some cosmetics around there as visual studio was yelling at me again
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Been working on debugging search some more
[11:12 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The tree module is long gone, correct?
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I think we still have the one that spams the region full of trees
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: it is there
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Someone did make updates to that and release code somewhere
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: at least my test region still has the trees
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ive been trying to use it to qdd trees but problems
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: add*
[11:13 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just spawn them via script, much easier
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I really prefer to use my mesh trees anyway
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: ll should improve trees
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: anyone have a script sample for that they are willing to share?
[11:13 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I think one of my cats is looking for food. brb
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: they are light ... like 20bytes on lludp
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( ofc not that light on viewers that do need to render them )
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have a wearable rezzer I use to walk around and spawn them in place. You can probably just randomize the coordinates and have a script spawn them, not a lot of code needed for that depending on how fancy you want it
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: gen meshes from the parameters etc
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I want fancy lol
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The reserved tree names in the tree module - Oak, etc - can I replace them with my own meshes?
[11:16 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and use module?
[11:16 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No idea how the code works internally, probably not hard to replace that with actual uuids of assets though I would think
[11:16 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats what I was hoping, but wasn;t sure where the code was to do that
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The problem with that module is that it isn't all that self aware of what it does so it likes to spam trees everywhere
[11:17 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: It has been a while since I looked at the tree module. Do all the tree look the same or does it apply some variations to them?
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Im not sure, haven't used it yet
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I am trying to add trees to a 16x16 varregion with 100 islands in the water
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm no
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: it is only for ll trees
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just use a spawner then and walk around the islands, you'll end up with less trees in the water
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yep
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, was hoping for some kind of shortcut
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Walking around planting trees is relaxing though :)
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: serves me right for having a 16x16 with 100 islands
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thought so. It would be an interesting enhancement to provide a (short?) list of UUIDs of trees so you could generate a more random looking forest. On the other hand, there might be problems with that.
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Someone did something like that iirc
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not sure where the code for that is though
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: the module has... things..
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: can plant dif trees etc i think
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OK, I'll try it by hand... thanks for the feedback
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you need help lemme know I find planting trees very relaxing activity hehe
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: burning them on a fireplace is even more relaxing
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeach we already had forest fires
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent I might take you up on the offer
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: the code changes.. yeap, only a few
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: a bug fix and cosmetics
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cleaned mantis up a bit more closing some old stuff out, but still lots left to do
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: (http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9240)
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: a else decided to do on holidays... uff
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: to go..
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: website super slow
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: as usual, that's how you know it is still there
[11:27 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Strange. The machines load average is less than 1.
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: its that crap mysql error
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: keeps getting it
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: bug in mantis code?
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: old software.. guess lots bits here and there
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: rotten
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: lost
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If only we had some competent sysadmin amongst ourselves to set things up properly, but alas we have to contempt ourselves with what we got, ah what a shame....
[11:30 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: March 17 there were reports of issues with one of the DB tables.
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: To carry on from last week. I put some useful stuff into the Feed tab since it renders just as browser window that's not hard to do. Adding recent activity like classifieds and events in there along with the Interests data, which confused me though. The bitmasks for those are all over the place
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They seem to want 255 and 63 as per cool vl, but I see 1279 for example, so clearly there is no standard on what they should be
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Looking at classifieds as part of adding that I found there is a flag for adult rating, but viewers don't allow you to set it and search adult as part of mature rating as well
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So search sends the rating despite being useless, great more wasted data
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They also have a flag for auto renew, which was not handled server side
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: pff adult is going to be a mess
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: linux is dead on califirnia, brazil etc
[11:33 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It already since it's included in the mature rating already which makes no sense
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: or will be whne laws are enforced..
[11:33 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Was that a change? Last time I did anything with things like classifieds I thought there were settings for Adult. IIRC, to see them you had to first set something in viewer preferences.
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: some distros already blocked their use on such contries/states
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is a check in the viewer code to enable the adult rating, but then is never set so you can't use it to submit a classified as adult rated
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: When searching for adult it just includes the mature ones instead
[11:34 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. Under the General tab In Firestorm there is a selection for "I want to access content rate:".
[11:35 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That doesn't actually set that though so despite enabling adult rating you cannot set it yourself, but search for it
[11:35 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's just a mess
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: think adult is a gird side flag that needs external code to set
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel or something like that
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: In viewer code is a bool that is passed to the function creating the floater for creating classifieds, but the bool is never set and nothing interacts with it
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So it's effectively broken
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: viewers allows filters...
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: those should be lowered depending on grid setting for user
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yes, but it shows mature classifieds when you select adult rating, there are no adult classifieds
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They added adult to the system and then never used it just adding fallback to mature for some reason
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: you are not a adult then :)
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel we may also hver some desync to ll code
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Even if you set the user account to age verified and payment on file flags it doesn't work cause nothing in the viewer interacts with that and it just goes into the void using the fallback to mature
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: at pint they had the age verification thing ( 2007 )
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: they they killed it
[11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: For classifieds bit 6 is Adult.
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: not govs are forcing something
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent when you say mature do you mean moderate
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: now
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's the other thing the content ratings are still all over the place in their naming scheme
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: In the viewer it's General, moderate, adult
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: i have the 3 content types set
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah thing viewers do have dif manes for moderate
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: names
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: and think... jezz
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: anywayt the adult thing will be a even bigger mess
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: no idea what UK, australia etc do about SL
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We can't do age verification, only locally as anything hypergrid is a different system, which under rules like that of UK would mean out of local control so cannot accept their verification status
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: thoser govs basicly forced sites to hire companies to handle that
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And said companies then charge you for the verification, but do not provide and guarantee or responsibility for said verifications
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: but as i said it is getting worse
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: now the os must provide user age
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: manage it, ( in future validate it) and have a api to make it public
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: bug mess as i said
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: linux is basicly forbidden now
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You are generalizing out of context
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: bc adult in opnesim and viewers context is useless
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: as is
[11:46 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Depends on the distro. The people behind systemd added age verification. Systemd was forked by someone to remove the age verification feature. Some distros have stated they won't support age verification. Some are still on the fence.
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: while the laws are clouds getting closer...
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: no systemd only added a age field
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: no validation, no api
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: future computers with biometrics linked to govt database
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but donlt get me started lol
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel laws are not clear about validation or any spec for the api
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: and there is a thing about 'valid' os
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: things things will not work if you compile linux
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: big topics lol
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact some machines will even boot it
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: In reality it's an attack on open source more than anything, because companies rather want people in their closed ecosystems
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: will not even boot...
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: becasue of enforced secure boot
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is child protecting, it's about controlling software
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sort of already true with macOS
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Then there is controlling for the sake of profits
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's really creepy when an operating system asks for a date of birth
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you pay them for the "service" and then they get to sell you personal data to brokers
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess most machines will only boot win or fedora
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: or some machines..
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: and ofc must be a modern win
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[11:51 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Don't be overly dramatic, you can turn secure boot off in most but the cheapest boards
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: you mean you STILL can...
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: this things are now been placed in stupid laws...
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The hardware and software in peoples' hands they'll find a way around anything, all the consoles got hacked too
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Where there is boredom, there is a zero day waiting to happen
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: have fun with that with pre codeded tpm chips, some already inside cpus
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: You two are like the left and right sides of the brain thinking too much lol
[11:56 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Anything other topics for today?
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: For the exercise of converting a standalone to a grid configuration, is it possible to do that all on localhost?
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Should be
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: great thanks... on the list for this week
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: btw macOS still boots Opensim with the latest trunk and Dotnet 8 for macOS 10.15-26.4
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: retested recently afetr an OS upgrade
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: good :)
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and Janus build on it too :)
[12:00 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Only thing that would have tripped it up is that weirdness with the char in the .Split function which sometimes fails on unix base, compiler being funky
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: i did change my regions to standalone/grid
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: but using mysql on all etc
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: i mean i did change modes on the fly by changing the ini files..
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: will be nice to boot the regions separately. I'm likely adding my 4th region so it seems like the right way to go....
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: but stop doing it
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me smiles
[12:01 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you are running a 16x16 then yeah, that's approaching lockup levels of load on a standalone
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ohhhh :o
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have a 16x16 and two 8x8's on a standalone
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: been that way for a couple years
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: region size is mostly abotu terrain size ( and operations )
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: until you forget and start putting trees all over :)
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Haha yep :)
[12:03 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Depending on how much content is on there that's gonna max out the threading capabilities, there is only really 3 or so cpu threads it can use before it just stops being able to handle more load, it doesn't scale infinite
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yeah I noticed the CPU never really worked hard
[12:04 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Splitting that up into individual simulators if you got a lot of prims or physics on there is going to improve performance by a lot
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: well some cpus had 32 threads.. now 24
[12:04 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Not a lot of prims and mostly empty, but still, scripts and physics....
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: an dopensim 8x used to ask for 1000 managed ones on a single region ...
[12:05 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So yeah, moving to grid makes sense now :)
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: but yeah regions do take resources
[12:05 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll do that before trees
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: worse it that you need to shutdown all at same time
[12:06 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And the maptiles, mesh loading, it can easily "fall behind" and then take ages to recover
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: any more than a few a grid config it better
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: can even move regiosn to other boxes etc
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you overload it the internal queues fill up, but even with things being dropped processing still has to happen so it might never recover out of that state. It's sort of race condition where the amount to process slows it down so much it never is able to work faster than 1x speed and clear the queues
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: it tolds you a few times that you should stop using Z80s by now
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:08 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:08 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[12:09 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It was worse under mono and yeah depends on cpu and type of load, but if it happens then sometimes only option is sigkill command
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok time for rl ?
[12:11 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: yes
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: take care
[12:11 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: have a great week!
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:11 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: take care everybody
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: bye
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: cuga
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: see ya Ubit
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: cya next week if not before :)
