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[11:01 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Greetings!
[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... that's what I say at the start of my email messages. :)
[11:02 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[11:05 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: There were quite a few commits to the code base this past week.
[11:06 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Lots of fun testing as well
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me nods and grins
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: A new ll command was added and several changes related to webrtc.
[11:08 AM] Ubit Umarov: you mean a new lsl function?
[11:09 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: picky picky picky
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: precision is his life
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: LL could learn a thing or two
[11:09 AM] Ubit Umarov: well yes Robert did donate his webrtc module that intefaces to janus gateways to opensim, and allowed it to be under BSD license like the rest of our code
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: so i did add it, and started breaking it
[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably is an LL command. ;)
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: the process...
[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: That's good.
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: before that i did add the sls function llSetRendermaterial
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: lsl even
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: it allows change of the PBR base asset used on a prim face, or all faces
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: llSetRenderMaterial is the new LSL command mentioned in the change log.
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: it does clear any possible override except transforms like texture repeats etc
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: well and those where the last week code changes
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile i learned that OSGrid decide to ship a closed source region module, while still telling they use opensimilator code
[11:16 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I am confused about one thing with tjuis wee's changes. . If I want to download the latest from trunk and build it for vivox, what's the process for switching webrtc support on/'off? Is it still controlled through the presence of the webrtc module in the build chain?
[11:16 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: config parameters
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OpenSim.ini ?
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: I want to make clear that code OSgrid is not shiping is entirely OSGrid responsability
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yeah, you can configure freeswitch, vivox or webrtc based on what sections and options you put in there. The ini was set to example so it shouldn't autoload anymore
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: their implicit or explicit claim to be using only Opensimulator is Worng, even a abuse
[11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the purpose of the closed source module?
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: seems to be about displaynames... but it is closed source.. who knows..
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: OSG strayed off the path years ago and never bothered to correct anyone that saw them as test grid for OpenSim, it is not and hasn't been since Nebadon left basically
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You are right it is questionable that apparently people still provide donations with the idea that it somehow benefits development of OpenSim
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://www.osgrid.org/download
[11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Possibly display names? :P If that is it, they can keep it.
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Amen
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: all on that page seems to imply they are only using opensimulator opensource code
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: they even mention the git commit
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: nothing warns users abotu the use of proprietary closed source code
[11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Adding a region module to an install wouldn't have an impact on the git commit hash.
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: it is closed source.. no relation to our git
[11:22 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And to re-iterate changing avatar names is not something that should be done unless they are otherwise malformed. HG was not designed with that in mind and things will break. Create a new avatar and move the inventory, which can technically be done directly through the database or IARs
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Displaynames are technically a better option, but are a huge can of worms in their own right and any implementation is likely flawed and won't be HG compatible anyways unless all parties run the same code
[11:23 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: ow
[11:23 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Haven't they strayed from trunk since they they didn't use My Suitcase?
[11:24 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure. I think the legs of the t-rex passed both sides of me. That was a very close call.
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: to not use that is a option on our code
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ah ok
[11:24 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Also different group system, which may or may not be the xml groups shipped. Different asset server waiting to fail catastrophically again and who knows what else
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you are curious you can dotpeek the dlls I suppose, but shouldn't have to if it was really all open source
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel jsut letting you know the situation
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: OSGrid not has nothing to do with OpenSimulator.. they even say that in private
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact think we must make clear that we have nothing to do with this OSgrid
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: we can not accept to see close source code been forced on users, without proper information
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: and we can not accept it claims to be a reliable generic usr grid, while if fact it can only be a limited test grid with free or low value assets
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: becasue a grid that allows any region running my users with users code can not be made secure
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: .. running by users...
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Frankly, bluntly, the attitude towards the project stinks and the way things have unfolded over the last couple months or years makes it clear the focus isn't on the users
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: well this what i wanted to share with you for now
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: We will need to think abotu opensimulator actions on thise
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: lie to start possible moving this meetings of of here to other grid
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: ..out of here..
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc also find other ways of stress test our code
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: side we cant test it 'linked' with closed source code at runtime
[11:36 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon was good at helping to stress test the code with his high prim count sierpinski triangle, the number of animated NPCs, and the number of avatars he could get logged in to region.
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: Nebadon was also member of opensimulator core
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: back then osgrdi was really the major opensim test platform
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: but all that was 'gentleman agreements'
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: thsoe dont do not last long
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: gentlemen are replace by other kinds...
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: whatever
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: those where the news i had for you, this week
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: what do you think?
[11:40 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No surprises here frankly
[11:40 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: excellentthat we got that code
[11:40 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: webrtc testing is fun
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: webrtc yay
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: what code? robert's ?
[11:41 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: yeaH
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: well still lots of work
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: and ofc you do need to run janus gateway on a linux box
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Code in trunk already has more fixes than Robert's repo, correct?
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah im breaking it
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: lol
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Just want to clarify, I can build OS and switch between vivox and webrtc with configs, without rebuilding?
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ty +)
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: =)
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: for now webrtc config lives in folder bin/config
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Janus runs great on Mac too
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: in time its parts will be moved to other places like opensim.ini etc
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: i also placed it on opensim/addons
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: well some groups code also live there
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: external modules live in addon-modules
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact onc coudl also put code from roberts github there
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm just still some collision on the ini files
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Is webrtc config documented anywhere besides Robert's github?
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: nopes only there
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, its already out of date then
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: we can-t doc what we still don-t have working :)
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: tehre is his readme also on opensim/addons/os-web...
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: well most of his info is still valid\
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: We should think about adding something to OS docs, even if very brief high level. To cover the setup process and at least what is working. Since the code is in trunk now
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: only the compilation of the modules changed
[11:52 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well maybe after it's further along
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah i even plan to change the 2 server names :)
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: spatial and nonspacial are confusing names
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: they will be ParcelsVOice and hmm something on the other
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: AdHocVoice possible
[11:54 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: We could take a poll on what names to use LOL
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: spacial or non spacial is a option for the parcels voice
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact all non spacial now :)
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for me those words are clear
[11:55 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: They to me
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: i just told you why they are not
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well that detail not important
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: spacial or not is a room option.. not a server name
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: or service name
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: anayws possible most uses will put all on a single service
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: ie janus gateway
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: the 2 sericces there follow the ll model
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: they run parcels voice gateways on same machines as regions
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: and the rest on a grid wide pool of gateways
[11:58 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: So it is about the context in which the words are used. Does it require two separate servers/services or whatever the proper term is for the back end to handle spatial vs non-spatial within a given parcel? In the viewer it is just a selectable option.
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: viewer does not give you option about spacial voice
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: parcels are spatial (3d) at sl
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and in OS with Vivox
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: in fact same as vivox
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: there it is clear it is a room or channle option
[12:00 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: The viewer has an option for hearing nearby voices at full volume. That sounds like non-spatial.
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: opensim only
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: fs tells
[12:01 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: well, this is opensim.
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes, in SL that Prefs option turns off the spatial in parcels and delivers full volume
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: nice feature
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: no idea why thay say that is opensim thing
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but not criticasl for an initial rollout
[12:02 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used it very often but I have had the occasional need for it.
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: scengate does have that
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: anyways viewers can jsut tell voice that avatar are all on same position
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yeah, might be a client thing
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: do not see that option on sl viewer
[12:04 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the hour mark. Does anyone have a topic for today before people start needing to return to RL?
[12:04 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I upgraded to FS 7.2.3.80036. It was NOT happy. Spinnied until I had to leave for work. Second attempt finally came up but all cache gone.
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm getting further behind. I'm still on 7.1.11
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I thought that option was in SL viewer also. Maybe they removed it for webrtc
[12:06 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thank you for a great meeting!
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: anyway as i said 3d or not should be a option
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: vivox even had more..
[12:06 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: That was another close call. Almost took out Lyr.
[12:06 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: oh no, Jagga
[12:06 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: so sorry to hear it
[12:06 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe have fun! *hugs all around*
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: like the vocie range and shape of volume curve with distance
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: vivox..
[12:07 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Many thanks for all your loving support
[12:07 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: bounced aroujnd to all my regions. it'sback
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: That option is on my Firestorm SL viewer
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Sound & media -> Voice
[12:08 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: "Hear nearby voices at full volume"
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: i see it telling it is a opensim only thing
[12:08 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Does one need a new(er) version of FS to use webrtc?
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: one with webrtc
[12:08 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:08 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: My experience with FS 7 is they are getting more stable
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: in fact current ones have at least a bug
[12:09 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: :) ok. I will see what is the latest available version and update what I have after this meeting has concluded.
[12:09 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Uh oh! Here comes the T-rex again. Yet another close call. Just missed Jagga.
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: that my block webrtc on soem grids until a edit is made on grids xml file
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: ...may..
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thanks for ther update Ubit, I'm going to play with webrtc this week
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: issue is on how viewers decide stun service to use locally
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: they have hacked code only vlaid for SL
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: or valid..
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: ohh cool fs is telling i dont have enough memory for textures
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: guess that was a sintome of a dyiong 13th gen cpu
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( in this case sounds more like a fs bug )
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: have a nice week
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *smiles and wzves
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: hope to see you all next week
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: aldso waves
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: look to our site for the meeting location
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: we may move it to other grid, as i said
[12:14 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye, Cuga. Take care. See you next week.
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Zeta?
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: yeah zeta is a option
[12:15 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: There are Plenty of grids out there.
[12:15 PM] Ubit Umarov: in fact we should move around grids
[12:15 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice idea but might be confusing to people who aren't regulars at these meetings.
[12:15 PM] Ubit Umarov: since opensim is not propriety of any grid
[12:15 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I can set up something on aviworlds or I've got a spot on zeta
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: well vicent still has our corner there as backup
[12:16 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Bring the dino
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:16 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:17 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *waves - see you all later
[12:17 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: ZW also has some code things that aren't open though, it's largely based and follows master dev, but I did make changes
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok.. going rl
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:17 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We should ask Nebadon for the creature from Alien.
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: think that was a avatar even
[12:18 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: A number of the large(r) grids have some custom features/code.
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: ofc they do and it is normal
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: but they do not ship their code
[12:18 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: He populated a region with them once. I thought he had it as an NPC.
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: claiming it is from opensim git blabla
[12:18 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Kitely is another possible grid.
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: it is not about grids doing it.. BSD allows all that
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: it is abotu OSGrid doing it.. and the way they are doing it
[12:19 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Of course. A lot of them do that as part of making it easier for them to maintain/manage their grid.
[12:20 PM] Ubit Umarov: ufff
[12:20 PM] Ubit Umarov: well think i was clear about the issue already
[12:20 PM] Ubit Umarov: cya
[12:21 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: The Kitey reference was a suggestion for another grid where we could meet. I've also used TangleGrid but they seem to have changed a while ago. Looks a bit like they may have been (in part) taken over by some other people.
[12:21 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: Zeta seens solid and we already have the space
[12:22 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to call the meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
