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11:05 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:05 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:05 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: helloo
[11:06 AM] Ubit Umarov: a wolf arrives :)
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello *grins*
[11:06 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi lyr wolf :)
[11:06 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi Lyr
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[11:07 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see you
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: had to update fs again to see you all :)
[11:08 AM] Ubit Umarov: about fs.. how is your viewer going joe?
[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just a few days away from the OSCC.
[11:09 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah.. time fies
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes *grins*
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: FYI, on the subject of FS updates, nightly FS builds for Mac now have the native Apple GPU stuff, even the OS ones
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: We'll be using Discord for voice this year
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and send it into world and to YouTube
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we have a live stream
[11:10 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: for all but the music venues and the HG Safari on Sunday
[11:11 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: https://conference.opensimulator.org/ is the conference site with the program schedule
[11:11 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: if anyone wants to host an event the week after the conference, there's a signup sheet on it
[11:11 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Live on Youtube is the link next to Home
[11:12 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: everyone is welcome
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: err the vip thing will still be on inwolrd vivox voice?
[11:13 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well
[11:13 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: if Andrew cannot use voice in world, then I can ask to see if we can pipe discord into the VIP location over the music channel
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: (assuming that still worlhs there :) )
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well voice works there
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: (...and works)
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we used it for our training sessions, but it does not work when we get larger numbers
[11:14 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivox voice doesn't work for me using FS under Linux but my mic does work with Zoom and other programs so there is something about FS. It has too many choices for the mic and I've tried them all but none work.
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: The VIP gets crowded
[11:15 AM] Joe Magarac: Ah, me. Not much viewer work. Working on region impostor server. But the WGPU people finally fixed a locking bottleneck. Now I have to upgrade the viiewer through three versions of breaking changes. Probably a month of work.
[11:15 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: there is another event that starts before it as well
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: (thx joe)
[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Joe.
[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: brb. I have a cat calling me.
[11:16 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Joe, you are always welcome if you want to join our Viewer panel. It is 12:30 PM Pacific time on Saturday. The VIP ends at 12:15
[11:17 AM] Joe Magarac: Thanks.
[11:18 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Many do not realize that what they want is more of a viewer feature than a server side feature, which is one of the reasons we showcase the sessions. We want the community to understand and support the projects
[11:19 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I am stepping up for Mal Burns, who we lost this summer. My heart is still heavy over his loss
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Andrew have you tried the latest FS beta? There were some issues with voice in the past so maybe that helps. It could also be that one of those choices does work, but the system-side volume is zero. I checked how this looks on the mint box I have and it starts off that way, once a program takes control you then have to crank it up again
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: :(
[11:20 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I saw the third party viewer meeting on YouTube by Pantera before Thanksgiving with some comments on WebRTC
[11:20 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: on certain voice issues that remain. The work seems to be ongoing
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: well for sl
[11:21 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: the best we have so far is robert work for linux
[11:21 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but with Joe's interest in it, I have been watching
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: but seems there is a issue with IMs
[11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back
[11:21 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:22 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me settles back to listen
[11:22 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There was also the part about it lacking doppler shift for the vertical axis, which I mean we only figured that out 35 years ago so of course LL struggles with it
[11:22 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes Robert said he was finally able to reproduce the IM problem so hopefully he'll have an update soonish
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: jezz who cares abotu doppler on a viewr?
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: making voice harder to understand? duhh
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm hard of hearing so at least what I hear should be correct xD
[11:23 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, I usually go for the stable version of viewer. The beta versions have a limited shelf life and I might find it has expired just when I need to use it.
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: in same cases even 3d should be turned off
[11:23 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I will give it a try. Can't be any worse of an issue than I have now.
[11:24 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes, that is a challenge. I test them to see if we have issues here and there
[11:24 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I'm on the stable release at the moment for teh conference...but will switch later, Vincent
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok on opensim code changes... hmm there was a little one around parsing of service urls
[11:25 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, the problem isn't that of volume. It is that the viewer doesn't light up the mic button at the bottom of the viewer. It acts like voice isn't avai.able.
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: and some trivial chenges.. some code kept trying to connect to a empty url string uff
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Andrew have tyou tried toggling the Voice checkbox in the mixer? On some versions that FIXES IT
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Andrew you may have to restart the connection using that refresh button or even restart the viewer entirely, which granted is a bit of a chore
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We got a report last week over inventory in hg not working right, which apparently was solved by changing the whole uuid of the avatar. I would have liked to debug that more, but yeah code changes to give some insight as to the next time that blows up hopefully
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( service ursl are for hg. they are the urls of user home services
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I did check logs and found a few instances of that 0 asset count despite it actually trying to transfer assets
[11:28 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Something funky going on, but this is somewhat common when people change urls and forget the srv urls in useraccounts don't change automatically
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: well that was one of the cases.. the region was connecting to a empty url
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: so logs are just wrong..
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: real cause of issue was not on logs
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which either it cached that somewhere or never got it
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Really strange issue
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: and not sure what it was
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile the user having that issue just changed the avatar and issue is gone
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: at least that reported case
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Annoyingly it doesn't output any more data with http debug either, the url is there at least, but from the http side to the service it gets lost somewhere
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess its av info got cached in damaged state on a few grids
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Must've, seems most logical, though why it would keep that around for so long is odd
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: well service urls jump with you...
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: so a jump to a broken grid followed to a jump to other could propaget it...
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: but i can onlu guess the the data i have
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: sure we should have better validation.. but well...
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: At the same time that cache shouldn't stick around for days either so yeah... voodoo
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Clearly not enough goat sacrifices
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: poor goats
[11:35 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They know what they did!
[11:37 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Speaking of sacrifices though. We still gotta work that primitems issue out before another disk meets its maker. I will put that code into production this week and see if I get any reports of broken things
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: disks makers don-t care.. will not meet the dead disks
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Does it reduce disk writes that much?
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: 70%
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok significant
[11:40 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: https://zetaworlds.com/blog/view/db-write-routine-test-2-results
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes pls put in!
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: What are the risks of adding?
[11:41 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is code in there to check if a value set data that is already set to that value, which is a bit iffy in some cases. I don't like adding too many if checks on stuff that's meant to be fast, so need to find a good balance. Also some stuff requires checking byte arrays and other structures that are difficult and cost intensive to check
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I got like 3 things left in there that I'm a bit concerned with now, the rest is simple if not equals, but those 3 things are byte arrays and larger sets doing multiple variables that are just a brain pain to get right, fast and reliable
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: and one of those is alread checked for changes
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: details
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm have a report of broke collisions bounces on bullet since august, but could not repo
[11:45 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Good idea to mantis that so others can try :)
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah reported prefered im .. pff
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: got no feedback on the sqlite changes
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: except it ill not run on older systems with outdated libc
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Testing through standalone, logins, prims, inventory all seemed to work so main things seem fine. Edge cases may blow up, but there isn't that many in the first place given it has no presence and such stuff
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Older systems that are long end of life, to clarify
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: edge cases always did blow up pff
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Keep your stuff updated people, it's sysadmin 101
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: that violates teh rule if not broken don-t fix it
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc current world is more about break if so get payed to fix it
[11:51 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That only works if you consider RCEs as not a bug
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What really is a security vulnerability if not a more elaborate password reset routine...
[11:53 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Would be nice to add a OTP option to login like SL, but thats a whole other discussion...
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: opt?
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: One-time password app
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh more nonsense things
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: mfa also
[11:54 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: They are a pain as you need access to the machine with the info you need to use the OTP app.
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes true, the setup requires web page setup
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Like the PayPal one that allows you to trust a device so you don't have to enter mfa again, because no one could possibly setup a trojan on that device... It's security theater for the most part
[11:55 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Pardon me for stepping away... see you this weekend
[11:55 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me tiptoes out, thankful for alll of you
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Lyr, see you soon
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: cya later lyr :)
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well I use the OTP feature on SL and it is good for security. probably a PITA to set up
[11:56 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You could technically do this via the splash page alone in some way, but honestly first order would be for people to actually secure their setups with certificates
[11:57 AM] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Thanks.
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: You mean like SSH keys?
[11:58 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That too, but ssl mostly
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I see, that authenticates the server is who they say they are.
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But not login security
[12:00 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: github requires me to use OTP to login. If I don't have my desktop running I can't access the shell script I had to make that gets me the code I need to provide in order to login.. The shell script contains the magic strng needed by the OTP program. I don't consider OTP any more secure and in some ways less so as the special code is now in plain text in a file. My passwors aren't written down.
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: i resist on moving into crap like that
[12:00 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: github didn't exactly give me a choice.
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: y was not born with a crap mobile phone in forhead
[12:01 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been moving my repos to gitlab.
[12:01 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I bought a yubikey years ago to setup that auth app, honestly not that big a deal, if my lazy ass can handle it so can you grown ups :P
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I use the Authy app.... works for me
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: dont rememebr how i lost most the afternoon and had to drive 30km etc bc lost logins to my stupid gov sites
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: one was bc the they decided to remove the bs app for auth and replace by another one
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: not telling anything..
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: the old app just crashes with no error..
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[12:04 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: bad choice of app lol
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: whatever
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: they pay for pure junk
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the top of the hour. About time to wrap it up for today.
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: anyway, not all that important, just wanted to chime in responding to comment about login security
[12:06 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Look forward to seeing your around the OSCC this weekend.
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: and so fun... on the gov office hearing ppl telling ohh we are sorry the program crashed, you will need to return tomorrow
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: that is goverment modernization for you...
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: stupid apps that crash all the time
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Going to head out. See you all this weekend
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: oh yeah my rl also calls
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun :)
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week and this weekend.
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: You too, Ubit.
