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[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:03 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: We had some code changes this past week. Ubit, would you like to say something about them?
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The cause for those changes was I finally got around to setting up the virtual machines for database testing
[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I was about to say that some of the changes were related to SQLite.
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sqlite or should say SQLite I guess didn't quite work. Case sensitivity be damned
[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That should now work properly on Linux and from what I can tell works fine on mac as well using the system version of sqlite
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don't normally test sqlite on macOS but happy to if somebody requests
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: git os a bit confusing on filenames caps on win versus linux
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: i chnaged caps on win, win mostly ignored ot
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: a a poing git decided to push 2 files, one per each cap..
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel managed to fix it
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: anyway the new libs will not work on older versions of libc
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Old as in on systems that are end of life anyways
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: needs libs from 22 or so
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Postgres meanwhile on version 18 just straight up explodes on the guid != uuid thing
[11:15 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So that's... not sure how to fix that yet
[11:15 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Mariadb in its latest version so far seems fine, but I have not done much runtime testing, only starts and logins
[11:16 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Question is then do we kick mysql to the curb and go mariadb or try to keep both compatible?
[11:16 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do not kick mysql
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: mb try another connector that can do both
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: maria is not available n all platforms, mysql is
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: maria recommends on.. need to see
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Where is maria not available?
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: zx spectrum for sure
[11:17 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: macos is only available through a package manager, not directly from devs
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: stability questioned
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so mysql better for now
[11:18 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think there is anything but a half assed installer for macOS while Oracle keeps the macOS version of mySQL current
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: well no plans to remove mysql ofc
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: correct
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: maria seems to be the Linux path
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: just need a connector that can do both
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: well even with all the mess ms is doing on win, linux is getting more dead
[11:19 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how so?
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: ppl left win 10.. tested linux and went install win 11
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: buying a new box some
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Just upgraded to mySQL 8.4.7 on macOS which is their LTS version, and it seems to be doing fine
[11:20 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no shocker there as half of their apps cannot run on Linux
[11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Depends which distro of Linux they tried and what they want to do with their computer.
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: several dev companies gave up linux support
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: ohh ll was one :)
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: distros are what kills linux..
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they still push linux related commits
[11:22 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL does
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: or big part of reason
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: thats fs code i guess
[11:22 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's desktop side of things though
[11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: You need distros. The average person isn't going to build up a full system for themselves.
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: no.. you ONE distro that works
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: not a mess of imcompatible ones
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: all broken
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ubit is on a Linux hate train as of late
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: well nothing new
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is there not to hate, haha
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: linux only works as server
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: and for specific things also
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: windows doesn't work either way, windows server 2025 is awful
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: if you try 2 many things like apache replacements.. etc.. it jsut fails
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I could use the Debian 13 desktop out of the box, but the total inability to run any of the apps I use every day makes it a showstopper
[11:25 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Same
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: not even pdfs one can read reliably... bahh
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can say the same about Win11 though, half the older software I use just fails to run or has runtime crashes
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: qavimator for example
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeha even so a lot better
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not sure what MS is smoking lately
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: qavimator hasn't had an upgrade for decades
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: despite ms effords.. win11 is still a lot better than linux
[11:27 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they stopped contaminated it with AI and ads
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Eh, at this point mac os is starting to look like an alternative and I have been a windows child for 20 years
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc untli they totally kill local accounts and turn it a shopping terminal
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Come to the dark side
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel part of problem is ms coping apple
[11:28 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: It all depends on what you want/need to do with it. I still find it easier to do a number of things in Linux than Windows. It runs programs for the things I need to do. I've never had a problem reading a PDF file.
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bright side you mean
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ssshhhhh
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: btw does the new sqlite work on macs ?
[11:29 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: We could debate the pros and cons of Linux and/or Windows all day long and not come to a consensus. Let's save further discussion on that topic for today.
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: both x86 and arm ?
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Given that Canonical can't fix libgdiplus and debian keeps trying to kill itself I honestly feel like maybe TempleOS is the only option
[11:29 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Do we have anything else to talk about regarding Open Simulator?
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I haven't tested sqlite no macos recently
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: andrew i did change the topic already >;
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I tried getting the brew version uninstalled. I think managed that and then compiled and ran with sqlite just fine
[11:30 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Not when I typed my comment.
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No runtime tests though apart from logging in
[11:31 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: was just going to ask that, no unit tests
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh no idea when i get pacience to look to that
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: what we have is pure trash now
[11:31 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don't normally test sqlite but happy to, just ping me on Discord if you need to test something Mac
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Logging in means inventory works among a few other things that get poked during that, usually if something fails it explodes at that point already, especially when the connector is the issue
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: well it is basicly running a stanalone with defaults
[11:32 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was about to say Ubit
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cuga, just make sure if you test with it that you don't have a version of it installed via brew or something else
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: the new thing only looks for native libs with e_sqlite in name
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( it can use a sqlite lib if renamed to that )
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: the ones shiped may also fail to work on older macs etc
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel lopr win
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: i only tested on updated win11
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hmm I do have sqlite installed with brew for some other sw dependency
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: but on win one mostly only needs to install a older vc runtime
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: like happens with ubode etc
[11:37 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might even get installed with libgdiplus
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OK, the brew installed version is "keg-only" meaning it is not symlinked, so not accessible except for the other packages that hard-code its location
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: php and python
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So Opensim should be ok
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll confirm this week
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: ty
[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I've still been busy with some work stuff so I haven't had time to dig in to some of the issues with libgdiplus. It passed its unit tests until I built it with some additional pango support then it fails three tests.
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: 3? Jeez it should only be failing the font one
[11:44 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: One was font related. There were two others. I will see if I saved the build messages.
[11:46 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: testemfcodec and testgraphicsfill both dump core.
[11:47 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: huh I only had that with the last github one, not the winehq one, strange
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OK sqlite fails on a build from Nov 10. Checking current master...
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah great.. pff
[11:49 AM] Ubit Umarov: what error?
[11:49 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, it is better than it used to be. I remember having lots more problems.
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: couldn;t find the dylib
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: well the config file needs to have the right caps
[11:50 AM] Ubit Umarov: ie System.Data.SQLite.dll.config
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( originally i pushed as System.Data.SQlite.dll.config lower case 'L'
[11:51 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Still get error on trunk
[11:51 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 11:51:03 - Fatal error: System.Exception: Could not find a storage interface in the given module OpenSim.Data.SQLite.dll
[11:52 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: when trying to load groups
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: stanalone as no groups
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: has
[11:53 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well I tried my old .ini, that might be the problem
[11:53 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: let me redo
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: just ging to use the .ini.example
[11:55 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok its working on a vanilla OpenSim.ini
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: nice
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok thats on a Silicon Mac
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: want a test on Intel?
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: well standalone may have groups with mysql
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: issue is really no no groups on sqlite
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: whne you can can test, yes ty
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: How do I check with sqlite lib it is using?
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: which*
[11:58 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: losof
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: rename the one on lib64 :)
[11:58 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lsof
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: but this should only look for a native lib named *e_sqlite*
[11:59 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lsof - list open files
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: dotnet 55794 cuga txt REG 1,13 1661200 46313619 /Users/davidray/opensim/bin/lib64/libe_sqlite3_OSX_arm64.dylib
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: thats it :)
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: working :)
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: ty
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so its not using the system one, using the one in distro
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: any other fast issue?
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: btw no idea about rasp pi
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: anyway i thinl i have a typo on same config file .. will push a fis one day
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( it has arm-64 on the cpu name,. it should be arm64, i think )
[12:03 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a reminder we are getting close to the weekend for the OSCC.
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: anyway as i said a above, it can run with a any recent sqlite native lib, as long it it renamed to add the 'e_'
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: well and possible named libe_sqlite3-arm64.so
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: arms are worse then linux.. more models than linux distros :)
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but you can get a card with like 64 processors on it
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok see you next week, if not before
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Ubit.
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Guess I'm heading out too. Have a good week all
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all right everyone. next week
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: That brings this session to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you next week.
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cheers
