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[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:03 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello Andrew!
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm or it is my crap edge?
[11:04 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You use edge? Unironically?
[11:04 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Absolute madlad
[11:04 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and on purpose
[11:04 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: rawdogging the internet like it's 1998
[11:04 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hahaha
[11:05 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I was pointing that out to so,eome yesterday. Nobody has accessed the internet directly since NAT
[11:05 AM] Ubit Umarov: duhh my edge was fast sending me to a odd page
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sounds about right
[11:07 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No new commits since last week looks like
[11:09 AM] Joe Magarac: I have nothing today. I'm testing that impostor thing I talked about.
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: Ohh nm it is the page of namecheap
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: "The domain has expired. Is this your domain? Renew now"
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That better be a joke
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess mel forgot to renew it
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It expired today
[11:12 AM] Joe Magarac: what domain?
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: our opensimulator.org
[11:14 AM] Joe Magarac: Uh oh.
[11:14 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm surprised it isn't set for automatic renewal.
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cool, she has what like two weeks to renew or the domain enters the open market to be bought by some chinese hackers
[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: godaddy was a name service known to snap up expired domains.
[11:16 AM] Joe Magarac: Yes, I just looked. You can still renew but not for much longer.
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If they have, good luck getting that back
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: /me nods
[11:20 AM] Joe Magarac: Looks like not much to do here today, so I will leave early. Thanks all.
[11:20 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: take care, Joe
[11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Joe. Thanks for dropping by.
[11:21 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: with our holiday on Friday, many are out on vacation
[11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: It is Canada Day today.
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have honestly had it with both mel and diva being a detriment to the project and effectively holding things hostage to their incompetence. From not renewing servers and now domains, to writing problematic code and not actually doing anything for the last 3+ years. They should no longer be involved in making decisions or be the ones holding the critical infrastructure hostage. Forgive my directness, but this is utterly unprofessional and disgusting towards the developers and contributors to the project.
[11:22 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: try again, working now
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: All registrars send out multiple emails regarding renewal, same with the server itself, to not see them is just plain incompetence
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: not for me
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Why is she and diva allowed to hold the project hostage like this. Being at the mercy of whether they remember to pay for things, potentially erasing decades of work. That's messed up
[11:29 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: My registrar sends out a renewal notice a month before and if I ignored it they automatically put through payment for the next 2 years.
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You can pay ten damn years in advance and a .com isn't that expensive
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The server is with hetzner, which allows adding funds to the account so it automatically pays for things instead of having to pay each month manually
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Both mel and diva have not submitted any code in years. The latter wouldn't even fix the recursion issue in wifi, just merging my bandaid that I clearly stated needs code revision
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Mel going as far as admitting on irc that she has no idea how to properly configure the most basic anti spam floor measure there is, leaving Ubit to manually ban whatever was flooding the webserver this week
[11:33 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm sorry to be so open, but this shit really makes me mad. It's disrespectful to Ubit being the sole developer now and all the contributors spending hours and days of their time trying to fix things and further the project
[11:33 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Only to be held back by these two to the point it all runs outdated software now waiting to have an RCE completely nuke everything
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Are there even backups of anything critical like wiki and mantis?
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm Updated Date: 2025-07-01T17:51:27Z Creation Date: 2007-07-01T17:46:52Z Registry Expiry Date: 2026-07-01T17:46:52Z
[11:35 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope there is but I couldn't tell you where they are kept.
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: seems it was updated ??
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: i still get sent to the expired site
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Great work mel, now renew it for 9 more years so at least we are safe from your incompetence for that time, hopefully by then someone with a brain can take over
[11:36 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not me
[11:37 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: been working for a few minutes now
[11:37 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: DNS records can take some time to propogate.
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: this the tmp expire entry should have a low tls... but seems still on my cache
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: can you open it now?
[11:38 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yep, that's edge
[11:38 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i'm on it
[11:38 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it's open
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: i also did resart the machie
[11:38 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: been open since 22 minutes after the hour
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The joys of cached dns records not obeying their renewal times
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Welcome to Windows
[11:40 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Depends on the TTL values that were set.
[11:41 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Windows ignores them quite often
[11:41 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hence why dynamic dns is so problematic for running a grid on when the dns needs to update to a new IP, but all the caches just don't pull the new info
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: TTL is a suggestion, not a requirement unfortunately
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I actually have something to address this week so before I get an aneurysm...
[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Are there a lot of DNS being run on servers running Windows?
[11:44 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, if you have another topic of discussion go ahead.
[11:44 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm on Mac. I'm getting namecheap
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I wrote about this at length in an article, the short form being apparently a lot of people out there are not enforcing the minimum requirements for avatar names. Names with áccènted characters or names that are only 2 characters long. In the best case you just can't search for those users, worst case is the encoding breaks expecting utf and receiving unicode resulting in the bytes just being placed in IMs and creator uui's
[11:45 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is some enforcement in the create user routine to prevent entry of HG related chars, but no alphanumeric check
[11:45 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Similarly many systems, such as again friggn diva wifi, don't enforce that either
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm i see the wrong dns also on google
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's not directly breaking things in the sense of data corruption although it technically falls under that criteria
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Also no minimum password requirements, not even in length
[11:47 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As much as that's an issue on the user end, enforcing proper names should definitely be done just to maintain some level of compatibility
[11:47 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, the IP address appears to be wrong at this time (for me). I can't access the machine. The IP resolves to something in bodis.com
[11:47 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm trying to make some changes to wifi to fix this for anyone that runs that given diva no longer seems to care much for it, but with any other system that directly inserts data into the DB the maintainers of that will need to enforce some standards
[11:48 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: working now and set to auto renew, Andrew
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Impressive, she found the button for that on her own?
[11:48 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Many thanks
[11:48 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: hasn't propagated to here (Canada)
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A small regex check for the names and their length should be enough and trivial to implement
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: For anyone wishing to read the specifics: https://zetaworlds.com/blog/view/opensim-naming-standards
[11:51 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: password complexity check might be an idea. Mine's a common name (nostalgia's sake)
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: i see it "broken" everywhere on nslookup
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( i mean our dns )
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A min length of 12 chars would be a start, but the name problem is frankly much bigger, because the only way to really fix that up is to change the name of the avatar, which has it's own problems
[11:52 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: IMO, it would be good to restrict avatar names to something that can be typed without too much difficulty. The use of accented and special characters is one of the reasons I don't want to see support for display names. How do you talk with someone whose name you can't type in.
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You then need to change the creator uui everywhere as well, which is a huge pain
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The serialized IM requires it to be utf8 so when it's given unicode it just dumbs the bytes as you can see in the article
[11:54 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You can't really fix this unless all grids that got bad data are contacted and told what to do to rectify the issue otherwise content might still get shared over HG with bad data in it
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Already a massive issue, so every bit that can be done to avoid bad data, especially something simple like this is worth doing in my opinion
[11:56 AM] Ubit Umarov: well i still see our domain as opensimulator.org. 259 CNAME 77980.bodis.com
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: and bodis, com seems to be dns trader
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm or dns parking service
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: anyways, still very broken
[12:01 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have some untested changes for wifi in my fork of that to fix both that recursion issue and enforce some basic standards for the names and even passwords, don't really have the setup or willingness to test those though
[12:01 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Probably should mirror the alphanumeric check for names into core
[12:02 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: While technically underscores and hyphens might be fine, not sure
[12:02 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: definitely not periods
[12:04 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, that's what I'm seeing.
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, We can make recommendations to grids but I think it would still be up to them to determine what they would allow in the names of their avatars.
[12:05 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: Non-authoritative answer: opensimulator.org canonical name = 77980.bodis.com.
[12:05 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Most that have cusotm web interfaces will need to implement proper names yeah
[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Just hope they sanitize the supplied names to avoid SQL injection issues.
[12:08 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now past the hour mark. Any thing more regarding names, Vincent?
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Nope
[12:08 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: Isn't SQL injection like a 20-year old issue?
[12:11 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, It is a widely know issue and web site and DB admins should know how to avoid the problem. Doesn't mean all sites are secured against them. Buffer overflow issues in code have been known for decades yet they often get found up in new code.
[12:12 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty Vincent.
[12:12 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other topics for today before we go our separate ways until this time next week?
[12:15 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Some discussions re: domain name and servers will need to take place. I hope the name server info gets updated soon to point to the OS server.
[12:15 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
