Chat log from the meeting on 2023-01-17

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [11:01] Lyr Lobo: Heya *grins* [11:01] Kayaker Magic: Hello all! [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 is online. [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll wait for Selby to arrive before we get started. [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:03] Lyr Lobo: Hello Jaimes and Selby ...gerest to see you [11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:03] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:03] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Hello, all [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Just as I was about to log in here I saw a message that there is a new(er) version of Firestorm. I didn't have time to download it so I'm still on the same version as last week. [11:04] Lyr Lobo: it works well [11:04] Jagga Meredith: AFK [11:04] Lyr Lobo: i had issues with the former one and like it... [11:05] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Good to know [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll get it after the meeting, if I remember to do so. [11:06] Ubit Umarov: profiles picks and notes still broken here :( [11:06] Ubit Umarov: and online indication is bad [11:06] Ubit Umarov: on the profile, i mean [11:07] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm not even sure that did work properly before, not that I pay much attention to that anyways [11:08] Ubit Umarov: it did work fine [11:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I recall we did fix the avatar data request for online indicators a long time ago at least [11:08] Ubit Umarov: it was fine on last, or the the version bf that [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not noticing an issue with the online indicator at present [11:09] Ubit Umarov: thing is that, as i said on another meeting, ll decide to put back profiles on viewers [11:09] Ubit Umarov: and made totally new protocols [11:09] Ubit Umarov: so with the merge, all the real good profiles code, was lost [11:10] Ubit Umarov: Beq did recovered a lot of it, but still those problems [11:10] Ubit Umarov: sadly things like this are to be expected more and more :( [11:10] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Why utilize working code when you can break stuff -LL probably [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:11] Ubit Umarov: fs actually did offer them their code [11:11] Ubit Umarov: ll ofc, went make owm broken mess [11:12] Ubit Umarov: so.. abotu code changes... [11:12] Ubit Umarov: hmm [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Two main changes worth noting, two cosmetic changes, and a change to a default value in the ini file. [11:13] Ubit Umarov: i modified mysql connector, hopefuly fixing the mariadb 10 issue [11:14] Ubit Umarov: i changed both versions 6.?? ofr master and 8.0.31 for dotnet6 [11:15] Ubit Umarov: i did avoid the option to change to the mysqlconnector, like vincent did, for now [11:15] Ubit Umarov: since that would require a lot more testing [11:15] Ubit Umarov: hmm what else.. [11:16] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: MariaDB from 10.8 onward requires that, 10.7 was the last working version. 10.10 does work now. I also tested Oracle mysql latest version works as well. Working as in, it starts. There might be some runtime issues still, but I already looked at some things that it could break on so if it does I know where to look [11:16] Ubit Umarov: added a little safe guard on bullet, preventing a crash [11:16] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Don't really have a testing regime to follow so I am just poking around for now, might do larger scale tests later, find some willing participants heh [11:17] Ubit Umarov: Beq reported that under some conditions, bullet ignores the max collisions parameter and so does try to access a array out of its bounds [11:17] Ubit Umarov: it will no longer do that, but who knows how damaged is the unmanaged state on that .( [11:18] Ubit Umarov: hopefuly is a rare situation [11:18] Ubit Umarov: maybe robert can look to the unmanaged code.. one day.. [11:19] Ubit Umarov: also changed the default PublicPort on opensim.ini Const section to 9000 [11:19] Ubit Umarov: so opensim.ini.example is set for a standalone, as supposed [11:20] Ubit Umarov: on the respective commits i mistyped it.. i told i did change PrivatePort.. duhh :( [11:20] Lyr Lobo smiles [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:21] Ubit Umarov: ofc made a few more cosmetic changes.. one even on master :p [11:22] Ubit Umarov: vincent did not like that we had some messages with "map tile" instead of "maptile" :) [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: In testing the mysql stuff that kept showing up and it irked me lol [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I suppose one could start a debate as to which is the corrent reference to the tiles used by the map system. [11:23] Ubit Umarov: ok ill change that to just map [11:24] Ubit Umarov: </endofdebate> [11:24] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: "picture thingy renderer" [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I might have gone the way of using the two words vs putting them together. The main thing is consistency, regardless of which version gets used. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well only shows up on log files [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but sure some may try to search so coherency is good [11:27] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It kept showing up along other log messages from same module all saying maptile and then at the end map tile... couldn't take my eyes off it [11:27] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: One of these things is not like the other. [11:28] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: After the whole mysql thing I looked at the design of the connectors and started work looking at other things, integrating mongodb into some parts that made sense, but that's quite the difference in behavior so writing the individual functions is time consuming [11:28] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Different structure in document databases so basically can't re-use any code [11:29] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: This will likely take some weeks to get done before I can test whether this actually helps with performance in any way [11:32] Ubit Umarov: wel a nosql db on a sql oriented world [11:32] Ubit Umarov: sure will work :) [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, I hope it turns out to be worth the time. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: just all the db front ends need to be writen for it [11:33] Ubit Umarov: some ppl made it for other dns [11:33] Ubit Umarov: oops dbs [11:33] Ubit Umarov: like cassandra? [11:33] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yeah framework and generic table handler and then whatever makes sense like groups and avatar data [11:34] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Plan is to have a combination of mysql and mongodb each used for what they make the most sense for [11:34] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 is online. [11:34] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Hoping at least for groups it helps speed that up, cause it's so damn slow [11:34] Ubit Umarov: welc rhiannon.Chatnoir [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Rhiannon [11:35] Ubit Umarov: (see i didnt told wc now) [11:35] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hi! [11:36] Lyr Lobo: Heya Rhiannon! [11:36] Ubit Umarov: so what news abt opensim do you have? [11:37] Ubit Umarov: no broken scripts today kayaker ? [11:37] Kayaker Magic: My scripts don't break! [11:37] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:38] Ubit Umarov: ofc not .. coff coff cofff [11:38] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I figured I would pop in, plus last week though an online discord event I met board member of the Linux Foundation, who is the lead of the Virtual Worlds & Simulations group that they have as part of their Open Metaverse program https://www.openmv.org/community/foundational-interest-groups/virtual-worlds-and-simulations-fig/ and connected with him after in messages and he wants to set up a time to chat [11:39] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: brought up AvaCon and OpenSimulator and wanted to mention here in case you want me to mention or keep in mind when i chat with him [11:40] Ubit Umarov: ty [11:42] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I think at this point it is a first contact, get to know convo, but I know they focus on open source software and maybe could get some attention our way [11:42] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: by our, i mean OpenSImulator :) [11:42] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Is it just me or is it kinda ironic that a foundation surrounded by open source software would use something as closed source as discord... [11:42] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well this is because he came to another groups weekly meeting knowing there was a community there [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes you just have to go where the people are to be found. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: and if they do not know about opensimulator by now, what homework did they do? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:43] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but I do think they also use Discord.. it seems to be the current way folks are cultivating their own communities outside of other social platforms like Facebook/Twitter, etc these days [11:44] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i have no idea what their scope of OpenSimulator is.. or not. haven't had that convo yet [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks just remembers a joke he heard by a comedian about YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. [11:44] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and I approached him [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Rhiannon, should be an interesting conversation. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well we all know that meta created the metaverse.. [11:45] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but of course Ubit ;) [11:45] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 laughs [11:45] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Urk... [11:45] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks laughs [11:46] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Hopefully not yet another one that when asked to define "metaverse" dumps more buzzwords on you than a crypto bro from twitter at least [11:46] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: lcukily this perso has been in the games/ virtual world space for awhile .. so not a recent web3 or worse / meta adition [11:46] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Sounds promising at least [11:47] Ubit Umarov: well that list of goals there.. [11:47] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Well our weekly meetings are open so maybe if they have the time they can attend one [11:47] Ubit Umarov: where fufilled by SL, opensim, sansar, Myspace... [11:47] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I shared with Lyr, but this is an interivew an IGDA chapter did with him a few months.. he is also director of the O3DE engine, Royal O'Brien is his name [11:47] Ubit Umarov: hi-fi.. etc etc [11:47] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD8jViuk7N8 [11:48] Ubit Umarov: oh other foundation? [11:48] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:48] Ubit Umarov: well nm.. thanks Rhiannon.Chatnoir [11:48] Ubit Umarov: lets see where that can lead us [11:49] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: they are programs under the Linux Foundations, the Open Metaverse Foundation, which he he leads that virtual worlds/Simulations group and directs that O3DE engine project also part of Linux [11:49] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: wellt he foundation [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks looks up O3DE [11:50] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but he is an engineer.. so him attendign could be an thing for sure.. will bring that up [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah. That has been around 18 months. [11:50] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: https://www.o3de.org/ [11:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Our communication channels are open and as long as Ubit is regularly fed he doesn't bite either :) [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeha anohte nice wayu to sell "my game engine" ;) [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Rhiannon, Hopeit goes well and perhaps we will see Royal here some day soon. [11:51] Ubit Umarov: lets define protocol.. ohh i actually havea game engine we can you, oyu know? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:51] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes [11:51] Lyr Lobo grins [11:52] Ubit Umarov: but wasn't there a older 03de? [11:53] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: probably the same? or an evolution of, it is open source engine [11:53] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but the Linux Foundations goals are about driving open source.. so can't hurt to connect [11:53] Ubit Umarov: possilbe i kinda remembber seening one [11:53] Ubit Umarov: sure [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Wikipedia says the initial version of the engine was an updated version of Amazon Lumberyard contributed by Amazon Games. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: just oyu know me.. all those foundations.. all those "coincidences" [11:54] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Can't be any worse than IMA's contributions so far lol [11:54] Ubit Umarov: and again the same old "herewe are to make it realy wiork" [11:55] Ubit Umarov: when all, done, sure on close or limited systems [11:55] Ubit Umarov: but possible that is what "metathing" will ever be [11:56] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that interview I linked mentions that transition about 8 minutes in... and how it became involved with Linux and helping them work on getting it to open source.. now under Apache 2 MIT open licnse [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just five minutes before the top of the hour. Is there any other questions/comments for today? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: Ty rhiannon.Chatnoir [11:56] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Thanks Rhiannon [11:56] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you are welcome.. my pleasure.. hopefully helpful.. we will see what comes of it [11:56] Ubit Umarov: btw you ppl had issus with version migration for oscc ? [11:57] Lyr Lobo: Avacon texture assets [11:57] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no, we had some issues on our own grid that got in the way of our timelines to update OSCC [11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok [11:58] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: between that and a tougher summer that threw some dates off.. our friend living with my partner and I finally passed from Cancer during the summer.. so wasn't a normal year around everything [11:58] Ubit Umarov: :( [11:58] Lyr Lobo hugs Rhiannon [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I reported to Joyce a sort of error message I was getting on logging in to the Avacon grid during the OSCC. [11:59] Lyr Lobo: The textures on Avacon are not loading for HG visitors, is that it? [11:59] Lyr Lobo: yes [12:00] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well for all, they are loading erratically.. but we also had a harddrive fail.. so though we were able to grab presumably all the data, we have been testing and really seems some errors in the database [12:00] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but if you have any hints for me to pass on that would be great [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: That could explain the message I was seeing on login. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: the magical strange ways of HG... [12:01] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Would have to look at that in person most likely, remote diagnosis of such things is never easy [12:01] Rhiannon.Chatnoir @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and again, this is on the AvaCOn server.. not the OSCC one [12:02] Ubit Umarov: ok [12:02] Ubit Umarov: well both sould work (almost) fine :) [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Logging in directly to the OSCC grid for the event I got an error message saying my inventory was corrupted. It looked ok to me, AFAICT. [12:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: You sure that's not the problem with the folder types again? [12:05] Lyr Lobo: yes [12:05] Lyr Lobo: to andrew [12:05] Lyr Lobo: which problem, Vincent. We're not sure [12:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Check_inventory_script [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr, I have no idea what caused it. I reported it to Joyce who was going to pass it along. I had not seen that when logging in to the previous OSCC. My inventory appeared to be fine when I looked. [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Now seven past the hour. Any last minute items for today or should I wrap up todays meeting? [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not seeing anyone typing so I willtake that as a no which will bring this weeks meeting to a close. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.