[10:52] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello and Happy Holidays *Grins*
[10:52] Orbert Tatham: Hey, Happy Holidays back to you
[10:52] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 grins
[10:53] Orbert Tatham: How was your Christmas?
[10:53] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I had a lovely, relaxing Christmas *chuckles* My idea of a grand one
[10:53] Orbert Tatham: Me too
[10:53] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I was sad to hear of the loss of Veritas... she spoke at OSCC on Dec 11th and came to our party for the holiday
[10:54] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: she died in a fire trying to save her pets :( in the Boston area
[10:54] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: such a lovely lady
[10:54] Orbert Tatham: Ouch
[10:54] Orbert Tatham: Was the fire tied to this weather?
[10:54] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Veritas McMaster - an artist who worked with Nyx Breen, a museum curator. He posted it in Opensimworld
[10:55] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not sure... it broke out on the top floor of their building
[10:55] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: multi family dwelling
[10:55] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and she ran in to save her cockatoo Sophie and two other pets. :(
[10:55] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it was 10 degrees in Boston on Christmas Eve early morning when it happened
[10:56] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sorry to bring such sad news, but I still cannot quite believe it. :(
[10:56] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: so yes, the holiday was lovely, but my heart hurts for her loss
[10:56] Orbert Tatham: Understood
[10:56] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and how was your holiday?
[10:56] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: here, we had negative temperatures...
[10:56] Orbert Tatham: There is always a story like that every year, it is extra painful when it was someone you know
[10:56] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and snow *grins*
[10:57] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: oh i am sorry
[10:57] Orbert Tatham: I think we were above zero, but not by much
[10:57] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hi Jamie
[10:57] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see y ou
[10:57] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody
[10:57] Orbert Tatham: Jamie
[10:58] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Lyr
[10:58] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 grins
[10:58] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i always like to wait to see who has which chair regularly speaking *winks*
[10:58] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I miss Bill. He and I came from the same area, but I left long ago
[11:00] Orbert Tatham: Lyr, you might appreciate my favorite blurb from the windup to this Christmas: "All I want for Christmas is sleep..."
[11:00] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 chuckes
[11:00] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: hihi everyone... merry belated christmas
[11:00] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: heard that
[11:00] Vincent Sylvester: Have to see if there even is a meeting today, neither Ubit not Andrew seem to have awoken from the christmas food coma yet
[11:01] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I work for 5 universities and conduct research on Sundays. Sleep is a joy
[11:01] Orbert Tatham: Andrew was the one that said we were supposed to have one
[11:01] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes, I remember him saying that
[11:01] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and Ubit too
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hehe Kayaker
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great to see you
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thank you for the cool gift you give to nature
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Hehe? What have I done now?
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 laughs
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I'm a Trekkie...love the sound effects
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Ah, the teleport tone.
[11:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well i was thinking also of the decorations you noted in nature
[11:04] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i geocache, or used to, and loved leaving little gifts for others to enjoy
[11:04] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hmm, is this someone's seat?
[11:04] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 eyes the drink and grins
[11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: hi
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Only one of the seats has someone's name on it.
[11:05] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:05] Vincent Sylvester: A wild Ubit appears
[11:05] Orbert Tatham: I don't think there is such a thing as a tame Ubit
[11:05] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello Motoko *grins*
[11:06] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: heya lyr ^_^
[11:06] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great to see you
[11:06] Vincent Sylvester: Must be a fairy type, those are very effective against bug types iirc
[11:06] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 laughs
[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: tame Ubit? yeah,,, keep dreaming
[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: :p
[11:07] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hi Selby!
[11:07] Vincent Sylvester: Queue up Steppenwolf lol
[11:07] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Born to be wild....
[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: :)
[11:08] Orbert Tatham: When it comes to dealing with bugs, my favorite helper is a Praying Mantis - watch them torture the bugs to death as they eat...
[11:08] Vincent Sylvester: Kinky
[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ok, and on the mantis subject...
[11:08] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and hard on the spouse
[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i did accept a patch dunring last week :)
[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: applied it to dotnet and jsut a few minutes ago to master also
[11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: my mantis is making a mess of my bug
[11:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: had no change to really compare that to SL since its a LSL function, but sees working
[11:10] Vincent Sylvester: It's weird with animations, AO and the like it can quite annoying to work with
[11:11] Vincent Sylvester: Add to that viewer AO...
[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9042
[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: this is not abotu viewer AO, but abotu server side AO
[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: even about...
[11:12] Vincent Sylvester: Sit being weird has been a theme for a decade now
[11:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: as i said one of this days ill need to review/test this at SL
[11:12] Vincent Sylvester: Finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel I think
[11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: only now ppl are looking to server side AO; finally realizing that pure scripted ones are bad
[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i also replaced native libraries for bullet on apple silicon
[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: using a single "universal" file, provided by cuga.Rajal
[11:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh did you update with the "new" universal?
[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: :)
[11:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: great
[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ofc that is only on dtonet6 branch
[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: master does nto support apple Si
[11:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that brings parity for Mac Bullet with other arch's
[11:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Mac was missing a patch that others had
[11:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I guess that means you can close out this mantis: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9045
[11:16] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: thank you cuga
[11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: yeah i forgot to post my commit on that mantis :)
[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: hm think those where the code changes during last week
[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ahh thin i added a bug on master
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: New bugs for old!
[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: just was able to repo it
[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: seems i broke mysql inventory
[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: coff coff coff
[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9048
[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well that code i did commit was on my disk for ages and working fine on my local grid
[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: so guess i forgot to commit a little thing somewhere
[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: that code should speedup move inv items and delete ( that is also a move )
[11:20] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that must be a new issue cuz I dont see it from an update on the 23rd or 24th
[11:21] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi, Lyr
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well it is on a fresh standalone usng mysql
[11:21] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hey!
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: as i said, i just managed to repo it
[11:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh, mine's not fresh, maybe thats why I don't see it
[11:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so recommend not updating till thats fixed?
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: so can only tell that the code is not finding original item folder in order to to the move :)
[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: this is on master!!
[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i did not commit that code to dotnet6
[11:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ohh not on dotnet?
[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: (still =
[11:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: got it thx
[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: (still)
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i fact i didn't wanted to commit it to master either :p
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: but doing the commit of other change it all went up :)
[11:23] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oopsy daisy
[11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: so.. at this moment master is a bit... broken :p
[11:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 waves to MC
[11:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can give a short update on Bullet, also have a short discussion on the AuthenticationService
[11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: at some point
[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: oh that auth noise mantis
[11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes
[11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9046
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80 whispers: well region will sent 2 requests, one only having avatar UUID
[11:26] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sorry im still finishing up xmas gifts O.o
[11:26] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: evaluating it has gotten messy
[11:26] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 3 requests in my case
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: bc UUID is the real identifier, ful name is not
[11:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: perhaps, but it breaks external authenticators that rely on name/grid info
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: on a TP our inter regions protocol does sent a QUERY message, and that only as UUID )
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: even has..
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: so that is the first one you see with no name
[11:28] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: When I was testing the external authenticator feature in September, I was only seeing one HTTP request
[11:28] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I never saw 3 until the new version of FS
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: if you seem more that those 2, then possible it is viewer retry
[11:28] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that 1 request had name, grid and uuid
[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: for some odd reasons viewers to retry HTTP requests, even having previus one open
[11:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: New FS sends 3 requesys with forst 2 without name/grid
[11:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: causes a lot of borking
[11:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: when using a URI-bnased authentication module
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well issue is that auth assumed that we did sent full name wll the time
[11:30] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I described some of the details in that mantis
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: and we do not
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: as i said, avatar ID is its UUID
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: the QUERY has no avatar name, and should also call auth
[11:30] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes and no
[11:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you cant have an external authentication module based on name and grid
[11:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if you ignore name and grid
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: we never send frid
[11:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: my proiposal is for OS Authentication Service NOT to pass along the HTTP requests to the authenticator URL UNLESS it has all 3 data
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: we never send grid...
[11:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you do
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well we may on the full name
[11:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: no
[11:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: As it's currently implemented, the HTTP request sends the fields firstName and surName
[11:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: BUT
[11:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in actual use, firstName is first.last
[11:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and surName is grid name
[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i just said that
[11:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: has been that way for a long time
[11:33] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and all external authentication modules assume that
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: we may send it as part of name, not as a explicti filed
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: field..
[11:33] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: correct, but you *are* sending first.last and grid name
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: and again.. we send that only on the "second" messages, when sender region actually sends avatar information
[11:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in the fields prodided byt he API
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well most part of it..
[11:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and external authentication modules expect that data as a basis to do authenticatioon
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ( there is a extra contact to send even more avatar data, like attachments )
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: No..
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: that one does expect
[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: no idea why that is a issue now, bc our code does those 2 things since at least 0.8.2
[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ( older that i did check)
[11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Theres been no change to OS code for this
[11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it always worked
[11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: what broke was new behasvior od FS
[11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: of*
[11:36] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the new FS borks it completely
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: dunno as i said os always ddi called external jsut UUID once
[11:36] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and I'm proposing a change to accomodate the new FS
[11:36] Vincent Sylvester: Eh...
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: fs guess is just doing one of its silly retry on opened http
[11:37] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes and its breakoing authentication modules, that's what I',m trying to say
[11:37] Vincent Sylvester: There is something funky going on with that
[11:37] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes
[11:37] Vincent Sylvester: I been seeing some strange behavior with texture loading as well, something internal to FS that went a bit sideways
[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: Oppps
[11:37] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the details are kind of complex, all documented in the mantis
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i forgot to turn the meeting log on :)
[11:38] Vincent Sylvester: Don't think that's strictly something OpenSim broke
[11:38] Vincent Sylvester: I'll post it manually don't worry
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ty
[11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: did you checked another viewer or a older fs?
[11:39] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I need to do that next
[11:40] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll update the mantis to comfirm the change in FS behavior, but I have it in the Apache logs
[11:40] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: documented
[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well as i said.. you should always get at least one request with empty full name
[11:40] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the test I need to make is on the same version of the sim with diff versions of FS
[11:40] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll post results of that
[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ok
[11:40] Vincent Sylvester: Did you also switch to a single region setup?
[11:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I suggest a work-around by changing the behavior of the AuthModule
[11:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: we can discuss that more in the mantis
[11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: no idea why opensim made query, not sending full name
[11:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: its a messy issue
[11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: or even why opensim even has a query
[11:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I suspect it is the result of unexpected issues on FS
[11:42] Vincent Sylvester: Question some concept or protocols is a dangerous bottomless rabbit hole to fall into
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: guess to avoid sending a lot of data of the next message, for a avatar that is refused
[11:42] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah, I dont know about the OS internals, I've only captured whats going on with the HTTP requests
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: but that is actually we do not do full http POST protocol
[11:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it seems if OS can filter the incoming FS TP request and only HTTP the one with name, grid and uuid, that will solve problem
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: that has a EXPECT CONTINUE option for that
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: i already told that is not fs
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: it is opensim tp protocol
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: the first message for tp only has UUID
[11:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in terms of the HTTP connections, thats where I feel the problem lies
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: that is opensim side, and since ever
[11:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: what used to work fine now isnt working with FS weirdness
[11:45] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so we can blame FS and never fix it or we can add a work-around
[11:45] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is there any reason that the HTTP request from Auth Services should include uuid only? My understanding is NO
[11:46] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Add a workaround for every weirdness just adds bloat long term, be nicer to figure out why this started cause we had no code changes on that
[11:46] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I agree Vincent
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: we born that way
[11:46] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: what can i say :)
[11:46] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but an issue seriuos enough to break all external authentication modules is big enough to act on inho
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: even for opensim HG was a hack added later
[11:47] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: There is something with hg and http that has gotten weird, I noticed that with texture loading, which shouldn't even really be http, but there is stuff in that pipe and it blocks out the udp ones
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: only HG may consider full name as a identifier
[11:47] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that makes sense
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: on any grid the only valid identifier for a avatar, or the main one is its UUID
[11:47] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Something changed in FS and I have a suspicion it's that damn profile change to http that messed that entire pipeline up
[11:47] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the problem is only for inbound HG TP
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: n fact should be also on the entire HG
[11:48] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the authentication module problem, that is
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: since UUID has "unique" somewhere on its definition
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:48] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Awfully convenient that shows up around the same time huh
[11:48] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Give Beq a poke, but probably will be a month before that gets anywhere. In the meantime test other viewers
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: do not bother Beq on this for now
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i say again OPENSIM always sends at least ONE request with no user name
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: oyu need to handle that..
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: once oyu do it, any possible Fs repeat i just useless noise
[11:50] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: was never that way in Sept
[11:51] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Never assume you get correct data, always validate and only accept the stuff that fits protocol, don't try to parse without checking... *looks at inventory* yeah...
[11:51] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don't know what FS is actually doing, I only know whats happening with the HTTP requests between the OS Auth module and the Auth URI... It used to be ONE request with all 3 fields
[11:51] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you said it was due to FS but I never confirmed, though it is a sensible explanation
[11:52] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I am mainly concerned with the HTTP requests coming from the Auth Module
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: .....
[11:52] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's something with changes to http that were made recently, which were around the same time the profile stuff changed at SL to http, so the shoe kinda fits that something broke in there
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: We may be called before there is a presence or a client.
// Fake AgentCircuitData to keep IAuthorizationModule smiling
if (client == null)
{
aCircuit = new AgentCircuitData();
aCircuit.AgentID = agentID;
aCircuit.firstname = String.Empty;
aCircuit.lastname = String.Empty;
}
try
{
if (!AuthorizeUser(aCircuit, false, out reason))
{
//m_log.DebugFormat("[SCENE]: Denying access for {0}", agentID);
return false;
}
}
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: ....
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: this is from 0.8.2 source
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: public bool QueryAccess(UUID agentID, string agentHomeURI, bool viaTeleport, Vector3 position, List<UUID> features, out string reason)
[11:53] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I believe you
[11:53] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the isseu might be specific to the external auth module, not how OS handles requests directly from viewer
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: as i said robust/ server to server TP query request as no avatar name
[11:54] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I suspect prep work for profile changes altered http code causing more extensive retries perhaps to make sure that heavy profile call actually makes it through, same thing happening with textures being forced into http when they should be exclusive udp
[11:54] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Something with http getting really aggressive in a way
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: you will not have is, IF
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: the avatar is already a child presence on the region
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: is the region was already in view range
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: in that case the region already knows the avatar name, so does send it
[11:56] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the regions Im testing on have no adjoining regions, and HG TP requests are across grids
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:56] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: But you have similar noise in datasnapshot module for search, if there is no data to parse it sends malformed xml, if you don't check for that and attempt to parse it you get error logs. Only handle data that's proper, discard the rest
[11:57] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yeah that was the other thing, two other tickets talking about auth service being weird in multi region setups, that might be something to look at
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: carefull.. ther is another auth service, unrelated to this..
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:58] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm starting to think that while it's normal for viewers to send TP requests with uuid only in some cases, these should be filtered out from being sent by the Authorization Module when configured to use an external URI. Is this reasonable?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov whispers: Man AGAIN?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i already told that its OPENSIM who sends UUID only things
[11:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That's an if that can be on any code though
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: viwers at most may just repeat requests bc their silly http retry on a timeout
[12:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So is is reasonable to have the Authentication Module not send any HTTP requests with only uuid and handle thos only internally?
[12:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would solve problem
[12:01] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If your external module gets data that doesn't work for it, just ignore that data
[12:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tried that and that doesnt work
[12:02] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: The auth module is one i'm already looking at, but I may have to head out early - anyone have any other topics to ask about before I head out?
[12:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would be ideal if worked
[12:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent I can explain why that isnt working
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: bad thing on that, is that it would need to send accept answer on UUID Only things, that it actually could not test
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: BUT
[12:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the notes in the mantis explain also
[12:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see you, MC
[12:03] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you too!
[12:03] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I'll see you all later, happy new years!
[12:04] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Same to you
[12:04] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: woukdl it be useful for me to explain why iglring the requests doesnt work?
[12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If you have one request you need to answer for the system to work, but only another request that actually sends you the data you need, then you need some form of caching or I guess straight up logging to a database and process the entries there
[12:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: First "part" of the request filled in once the rest comes through, course yeah problem with setting a wait on that and needing to reply to the requests
[12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The 3 HTTP requests, which come from the OS Auth Service (not directly from the viewer) have 2 requests with uuid only and 3rd request with all 3 fields
[12:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If I return false/reject on the 1st request, bc it didnt send their name data, OS sends that back and the viewer doesn;t send the 2 other requests, But, nobody can TP in
[12:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so broken
[12:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all
[12:07] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: bye Selby
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans
[12:07] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Peace Selby
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: happy
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: new yeaer
[12:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if I send true/allowed with uuid-only request, it sends 2nd and 3rd request
[12:07] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Happy New Year
[12:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: this leads to things breaking
[12:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vince do you want to hear these details?
[12:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or are we wrapping up
[12:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: And the rejection can't happen after those requests are sent?
[12:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or moving on :)
[12:08] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great details
[12:08] Kayaker Magic: Wrapping or not, I need to run. RL calls.
[12:08] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: bye Kayaker
[12:08] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Peace, Kayaker
[12:08] Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: happy new year kayaker
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll continue with Vince and Ubit... happy new year to thise who need to go
[12:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so what happens is....
[12:09] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: Before I vanish - Is this supposed to happen again next week?
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: he always tells to buy bit does not give the $$
[12:09] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: As in the meeting
[12:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 1st requerst with just uuid comes in, default is set to true/allow
[12:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so the inbound TP process begins its sequence at that time
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: yes we have this every week
[12:10] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: See you later, then
[12:10] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: bye Orbert!
[12:10] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Happy New Year
[12:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 2nd uuid-only request comes in, returns true, the inbound TP process continues, but does not restart. It began when the 1st request was alllowed
[12:10] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Have a great week yall
[12:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 3rd HTTP request comes in with name, grid, uuid. Returns false
[12:11] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: bye Jamie
[12:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: after TP rocess already initialted
[12:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a message appears that they are not authorized, and the partially-complete TP process stops
[12:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: leaving their veiwer borked until they quit and restart
[12:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if they authenticate and are allowed, their attempts to TP are borked until they quit and restart viewer
[12:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thats where I am at now
[12:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yeah so you want to reject immediately to prevent the tp processing, meaning the problem is that you need to decide on the first request, which doesn't have enough data for your module, correct?
[12:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: You can;t reject immediately bc then no more HTTP requests are sent
[12:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the 2rd and 3rd HTTP requests never happen
[12:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and nobody can HG TP inbound
[12:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so you cant reject first HTTP request wi uuid only
[12:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the fact that 3 HTTP requests are sent to the authenticator is the problem
[12:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: with 1sdt two only having uuid
[12:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: And you need the third because it holds data you need?
[12:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well, yes, but really you only want one
[12:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: with all 3 data sets
[12:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 3 requests is a no win situation
[12:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: again, I'm not talking about the raw requests sent by the viewer
[12:16] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The first will send you a uuid, but no name, so you only know the uuid of the user, the IP and probably port of the region they are coming from
[12:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Im taking about the HTTP requests sent from the OS auth service to the module
[12:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ist and 2nd request is uuid only in the XML payload
[12:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can detect IP but shouldnt have to use that
[12:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: auth is done on name and grid
[12:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: before new version of FS it was always just one HTTP request with all 3 data sets
[12:18] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will retest with old version on new simulator to make sure
[12:18] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I believe Ubit that no code changed :)
[12:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I have to look, but I think auth based on uuid is enough for such a module, given if the system finds a local user with the same uuid I think it rejects that teleport
[12:19] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don;t know if the profile stuff affects this
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: no vicent
[12:19] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes it is possible to authorize on uuid alone but that is not the way it was ever done on the external modules
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: for that the registration page needs to ask the uuid also
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: and store it on db
[12:20] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: what registration page?
[12:20] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: none of the external auth mpodule I have seen asked for uuid
[12:20] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a;ll asked for name and grid
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: the one where ppl go ask for access to that grid
[12:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and mine, it forces name and grid to one actually used to prevent abuse
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: telling that accetps grdp(??) blablabla things
[12:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a feature that has always been needed
[12:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: name@grid is what is being authenticated
[12:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: when they are fillin gin the form we want to lock in their name#grid so they can't abuse the form
[12:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: only possible if that data is transmitted in the XML payload
[12:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and it was always sent until this 3-request thing started
[12:23] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: When you went to the OSCC after-party and they made you sig a web form
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: you also never see that if user is a grid god :)
[12:23] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: they needed you ani name and grid
[12:23] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: same reason
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: last year, we did...did we do that for the AvaCon party on the staff grid?
[12:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes
[12:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and previous years too
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ah, good to know *smiles*
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes, on Francogrid
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: the Dream Rave did last year
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but not in prior years for me
[12:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I;m bringing that up bc it is an exampke that explains why we have to authenbticate on name & grid
[12:24] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[12:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: those authentication modules are now broken as I understand it
[12:25] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I find those hg auth, gdpr things silly in the first place, but it's an interesting issue. Do test other viewers though see if they behave the same. If FS is alone it might be the profile stuff, that's the only relation to http as of late so it might have changed underlying code that is also used by this part
[12:25] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 nods
[12:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: my mantis is trying to capture what is going on, determone the cause, and recommend a solution
[12:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it is a messay one
[12:26] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[12:26] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: last year, it did not work well for a few of the attendees to the Francogrid party
[12:26] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I did have one other thing I wanted to mention, but I think I'll do some more local testing on that report next week with more data
[12:26] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: did not realize it was a block for this year
[12:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: This year didn't use an authenticator
[12:27] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: right
[12:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so this issue is complex and takes some time to get your head around it
[12:27] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and an important one
[12:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hopefully this discussion is helpful in understanding the cause
[12:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and finding a solution
[12:28] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes *smiles*
[12:28] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=9046
[12:28] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tried to see if a bug was filed for FS doing this but couldn;t find anything
[12:29] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: while you report it on macOS, it is not exclusive to it, right?
[12:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have not tested it on other platforms of the *srever* but it is the same code
[12:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in theory shouldn;t matter
[12:29] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 nods
[12:29] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Easiest solution on OpenSim end likely to find the first request, add data to that, so you can ignore the subsequent repeats, not sure if that works though
[12:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the cleint SW, yes, Windows/Mac FS had same issue
[12:30] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: @V - theres no place to get the data to fill in
[12:30] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: just don;t forward the requests with missing data to the authentication module
[12:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: don't send HTTP to external auth URI that is
[12:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: only send the HTTP request that has full XML payload
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well spec those was as it is... username optional
[12:31] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I dont know how easy/hard this change would be to implement
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: no idea why.. but code is there for ages doing that
[12:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that is the only way I can think of to solve problem
[12:32] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that and FS fixing their stuff :)
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: forget fs grrr
[12:33] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 smiles
[12:33] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so amyway, thats all the back story on that mantis
[12:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: were theere any other deets you wanted to know more about?
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: a easy fix is to just return accetp to any req with a vaid uuid but no name
[12:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the problem is
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: opensim will send one with name later..
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: ugly.. waste.. but.. well
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: will work...
[12:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats what I did, and what happens is the 1st 2 requests are true/accept, and the 3rd is false/reject
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: so, you send banc a 204
[12:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: this leaves the clent in a borked state, they have to restart viewer to TP in again
[12:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the 204 was a workaround, but it was basically the same effect as sending true/allowed
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: 204 will make region refuse it i guess
[12:36] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: since that is what the default is set to
[12:36] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 204 withh cause the default response, same as if malformed XML
[12:37] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I thought it weas a solution but is just breaks in a better way..
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: 204 is not part of that protocol
[12:38] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ubit, the same thing happens at Virtual Harmony. We configured as 18+ grids there and have the same problem, but we're using an earlier release of Opensim
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: hmm? what happens?
[12:38] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: We freeze and restart the viewer
[12:38] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think this sending of true/approve on empty requests and then false/reject on 3rd request is the source of a lot of problems prople are having now with external auth modules
[12:39] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it borks the voewer until it is restarted
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: who do use th 18+?
[12:39] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Curious to what happens when you send it a 307 with a retry header, does it request again or just fail
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: set the age flag on dbs externaly ?
[12:40] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: good question for Spinoza. But when we hg between them, we freeze after the first teleport
[12:40] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i thought it was our config
[12:40] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: It seems that if the response does not send the exact XML expected (including the 204 option) the auth service condiders it a failed response, and uses the default setting for failed resposes
[12:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I expect the 307 will be the same
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: where did oyu got the 204?
[12:41] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: default is allow/true so the TP process starts, gets part way, then stops. Causing viewer to be borked until restarting
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: that is just handle as a error
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: there is not 204 ont hat
[12:42] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tried sending the 204 as an experiment to see if it could fool the server into not proceeding with true/false
[12:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but after looking at theOS console I see that it didnt do anything differently from just sending a true/allowed
[12:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: since that was the default for malformed responses
[12:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so the 204 is not a solution
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: [12:43:24] (You): code only wants 200, 404 and 401
[12:43:29] (You): from what i see
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: i mean only looks..
[12:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if the server doesnt get the XML in the response it expects, it considers it a failed response, period
[12:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: HTTP hears dont seem to change that
[12:44] Ubit Umarov: rest is just a generic error
[12:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: headers*
[12:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the 3rd response -
[12:45] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if they are already authenticated, the 3rd request with all XML gets a true/allowed and the HG TP continues
[12:45] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: same result as 1st two
[12:45] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if they are not authenticated, the 3rd response is false/reject and they can get the custom error message from the module
[12:46] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but, their viewer has already started part of the login process
[12:46] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: invisible to the end user, but the viewer can not log in to that grid (after they authenticate) until they restart the viewer
[12:47] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think thats whats happening with Lyr's people too
[12:47] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: its the resut of how OS starts the TP process before the 3rd request and then stops the TP process
[12:47] Ubit Umarov: Lyr is other code path
[12:48] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[12:48] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: likely same issue in both code paths
[12:48] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you said that code for that hasn;t changed in ages
[12:48] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: comon issue
[12:48] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I don't experience this problem when traveling on my OSCC avatar
[12:48] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and not our fault :), but one we need to solve
[12:48] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Be a whole lot easier to just let them in, stick them into a jail region and then auth them there, only let them teleport elsewhere when authed and kick em out after 5 minutes...
[12:49] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: easier for the programmer
[12:49] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: harder for the grid owner and for the people TPing
[12:49] Ubit Umarov: wel may be refusing the avatar a bit later and not killing on viewer the way they need now
[12:50] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and more importantly a change from how people depend on it working in the past
[12:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Well you can teleport people via console as well, so once authed you can teleport them from there automatically
[12:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Though yeah easier with auth module
[12:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: OpenSim code hasn't changed on that in some time though so it's something external somewhere
[12:50] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I agree we shouldnt add code every time FS does something stupid
[12:51] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: we need to fond out if this is a FS bug or if it's here to stay
[12:51] Ubit Umarov: well they merged ll code for mfa
[12:51] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if permanent, perhaps a change is needed to keep up previous functionality
[12:51] Ubit Umarov: but guess still ok for us
[12:51] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm not a gambling man, but I'd bet it's something in FS that changed http when that whole profile thing switched to that, it's caused some really weird texture loading into http when that's turned off explicitly
[12:52] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: So something in there is overly active for no reason
[12:52] Ubit Umarov: but think that mfa code is totally out for opensim
[12:54] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: How hard would it be to change OS auth service not to pass HTTP requests that are uuid only? Still handle then properly, just don;t pass then to the external authenticator.
[12:54] Ubit Umarov: to be correct that auth should send a correctly formated xml
[12:54] Ubit Umarov: with private bool m_isAuthorized;
private string m_message;
[12:54] Ubit Umarov: filled
[12:55] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can do that instead of the 204, but it doesn;t solve the problem
[12:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: OpenSim is KISS or at least tries to be, so trying to avoid adding checks for things that shouldn't even be a thing in the first place
[12:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Like viewers borking inventory
[12:55] Ubit Umarov: as i said oyu cna only work around the issue, sending true, if the uuid is valid and no name
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: if second refuse does freze viewer.. well other issue
[12:56] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: as it stands, HG TP authorixation modules at best leave latest FS viewers borked after they are rejected and the voewers have to be restarted. Can we at least agree that needs to be fixed?
[12:57] Ubit Umarov: viewers restart is cool :P
[12:57] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or do we announce that name-based authenticators are no longer supported
[12:57] Ubit Umarov: well several grids do have their own working
[12:58] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: People do, to the detriment of us all, still change their names
[12:58] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Wouldn't go by that for auth, even in combo with grid url
[12:58] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: they can re-authenticate :)
[12:58] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I mean spoofing wise
[12:58] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Always assume malice
[12:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'd go by uuid, IP and then name and grid, cause uuid many don't fiddle with so easily and IP they might not be able to at all
[12:59] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I wonder if they are still working for those not yet authenticated
[13:00] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Always assume people will spoof and do whatever to trick you, because they will
[13:00] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: IP changes for dialups all the time
[13:00] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Cuga, did you experience the problem prior to two weeks ago?
[13:00] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: there was a gap in my testing
[13:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Dodnt have the problem in Sept and Oct. Discovered the issue in Dec
[13:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm guessing it is due to new version of FS
[13:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats what other developers' concensus is
[13:01] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ah then not related to my problem. As Ubit noted, I had earlier
[13:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[13:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Pinpointing it to the viewer or even specific version of that or ruling it out probably a good step now
[13:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Leave the brainache for later heh
[13:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will retest on an older FS and post the results to the mantis
[13:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 grins and nods
[13:03] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great, Cuga
[13:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks for taking a look Vincent
[13:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: its a messy issue and not easy to explai
[13:04] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no worries here. I have a background in software engineering and testing
[13:04] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: love this stuff
[13:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm trying to make sense of how it even gets to sending three, to my brain this should only ever produce two
[13:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Might need a night of sleep for that to make sense
[13:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have no idea why more than 1 is being sent on my grid. I have 2 regions but they are not adjoining and very far apart
[13:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I could turn one off to see if it makes a diff, if thats useful
[13:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If it's a standalone that might not matter, it may just make a child agent regardless in a standalone setup
[13:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah its a standalong HG
[13:06] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: .•*♥´¨`•BRB •´¨`♥*•.
[13:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Standalone has some internal skips to do some bypassing on connectors and such
[13:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Well some at least
[13:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's weird
[13:07] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Also doesn't really help either since this does mean it could break like this in a grid setup as well
[13:07] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: We can't detect at that point if the auth is root or child either so that's no easy fix option
[13:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: To me it smells of viewer given the timing with the profile changes being http related and seeing stuff in the http texture pipe when that's turned off is just too close together
[13:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I went back from hg the other day and found it tried to fetch http textures causing some of the textures to go blank
[13:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: As in blank, not gray as in loading, but blank
[13:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: like the default when the uuid isnt found
[13:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: white
[13:10] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That concerns me a bit, since that's not happened before with hg like this
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: ops
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: wrong btn
[13:10] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It starting with new viewer version that made http changes, coincidence I think not
[13:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: prolly right
[13:11] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm sure eventually Beq will sort that out, but yeah her todolist probably as long as mine lately
[13:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can see how the inbound HG TP issue is part of a bigger problem
[13:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and how that makes resolving this one hard
[13:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: bc you want to address it globally the right way
[13:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: which is the roght thing to do
[13:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It would not surprise me if it's a library change or something to the http parts of the viewer unearthing bad code elsewhere
[13:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: After that whole viewer object cache I have a healthy distrust of that
[13:13] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: You never know until you try to break it
[13:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in the case of the external auth module the fix might be simpler, without needing to address bigger issues
[13:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I agree, hate adding code just as workaround for FS problem
[13:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so we'll let this simmer for a bit :)
[13:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Same thing with inventory. I tried Kirsten viewer about a year ago and bricked my inventory, because it sets the wrong inventory data
[13:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Easy to add a check in there, but every if you add slows things down as well
[13:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not by much, but depending on what it is it will make it slow very quickly
[13:16] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 smiles an dnods
[13:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: this would only slow down inbound TPs by some milliseconds ... :)
[13:18] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I should head out soon..
[13:18] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: in a jet, that could cause the brakes to fail, but here, probably fine
[13:18] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's best if all parts adhere to agreed standards and protocols as best as possible, workarounds can quickly devolve into madness, so yeah let's investigate some more, might yield to positive fixes elsewhere if it's really a viewer issue
[13:18] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Happy New Year, Cuga
[13:18] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thanks!
[13:19] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great recommendation
