Chat log from the meeting on 2020-09-01

[11:02] Grid: Teleport completed from hop://login.osgrid.org/Hellmouth/43/212/23
[11:02] Grid: The region you have entered is running a different simulator version.
Current simulator: OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev , Built 10:30 09-01-20, Mono 6.12.0.86 (Unix/Mono)
Previous simulator: OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev OSgrid 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev b598573f41: 2020-05-22 16:55:20 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:02] mantis 8760: 1.000000
[11:02] Bill Blight: Sky looks fine to me
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: ohh i did change all the prim and only the animated changed
[11:02] mantis 8760: -1.000000
[11:02] mantis 8760: 1.000000
[11:02] Telehub: Welcome back to, Dev Outreach, Andrew Hellershanks.
**During meethings, all chat is logged.**
This Region Running, OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev , Built 10:30 09-01-20, Mono 6.12.0.86 (Unix/Mono)
"The way to make a small fortune in the commodities market is to start with a large fortune."
[11:02] mantis 8760: -1.000000
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:02] mantis 8760: 1.000000
[11:02] puff ball: hello !
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Dang Ubit, I submitted that mantis 30 minutes ago, haven't you fixed it yet?
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: well same at sl
[11:02] mantis 8760: -1.000000
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: no fix
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: its a viewer thing
[11:03] mantis 8760: 1.000000
[11:03] Chat Logger: Meeting chat logging has been enabled.
[11:03] mantis 8760: -1.000000
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: well if we do understand what you mean
[11:03] mantis 8760: 1.000000
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Oh, then it is Gavin's job to fix it?
[11:03] mantis 8760: -1.000000
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: heehe
[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not going to happen any time soon
[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is currently too much code that needs to be added
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: animation takes over viewer side
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: and seems to impact all face
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: hmm and what is wrong with sky?
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: aside im seeing my land one lol
[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was talking about the sky...
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: ahh no
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: pretty sun there
[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it looks like a red smear :-)
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: you are on a eep viewer gavin?
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said, currently too mcuh code needs to be added
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I'm on an eep viewer and when I arrie the sky is a horrid lurid magenta/orange
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: then guess u just see normal sun
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: much*
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: set time to midday fixes it.
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sun is purple
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: magenta is pretty
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm on 6.4.5 today. That sky looks different. So does the sun.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: well i see it like bill
[11:07] Bill Blight: no accounting for taste ...
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I see it like the picture over the bar.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:08] Bill Blight: Yeah that is the way it is supposed to look
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Almost look like I've been transported to a different planet.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: guess wl viewers with show just normal sun
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: will
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: other paremeters should be +- identical
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: OooH! I don't see the sun looking like the picture.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: but not going to test now :)
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: so oyu where at openfeast with a wrong viewer?
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: lol
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: fest even
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I'm running 6.3.9 Firestorm
[11:10] Bill Blight: No eep in that
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: yeap wrong viewer for opensimfest :)
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Dang!
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: all the regions add eep features
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: and had
[11:11] Bill Blight: You can beat them over the head with a download link but can't make them use it ..
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: aand about opensim i did accept a patch that does share the dedaul assets whne making a new one in inventory, something i still had not done
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well then i changed it a bit :p
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: Andrew, I have a question about the Mantis submission form.
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Kayaker.
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: There is a section that asks for "Platform, OS and OS Verion". Does OS mean Operating System or Open Sim there?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: just today, made a fix for a case where some scripts could not start on crossings
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: OOOH! I have had a lot of HUD scripts fail to start on a crossing! I'll go test that.
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, It means Operating System.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: What does Platform mean? Hardware?
[11:15] Bill Blight: I think Platform would be , Windows, Linux, Mac, os is the os, like Windows 10, windows 7 , Ubuntu, then followed by OS version nuber like 18.04.4
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: The bug report form is asking you to fill in some details about the environment in which you are running the program.
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: tell modee :)
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: she was the one telling me about that
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: telling..
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayer, Product version is for specifying the version of OS (Open Simulator).
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: her boats should work
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: well on Yengine
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: I'll tell her.
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: and if someone applies the fix to that grid fork of a fork of a ....
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Product version needs updating, it doesn't have 0.9.2 as an option :(
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: it is called dev
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: Ada and I are looking at the default avatar mesh. If we submitted small changes to that, like fixing an asymmetry in the skeleton or correcting a bad normal in the male morph, do you think LL or the TPV people would accept it?
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: see just changed mantis 8760
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I honestly don't know Kayaker
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Bento fight went on for months on end
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make a pull request on Bitbucket and see what happens
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or a JIRA
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you can try and see whathappens.
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if accepted by LL, the TPVs will follow
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I was thinking a Jira with a patch to fix the problem in one of the viewer files would get more attention than just complaining about the bad normal....
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I can see that it might not be accepted directly if they have some other file format as the source for the avatars that get exported for their user base.
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how do you mean Andrew?
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: I'm reverse engeneering the *.llm file format that the default avatar is stored in.
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: For example, if they maintain the avatars in Blender (.blend files), providing them with a change to a .bvh file won't directly help them other than to point out the error that needs fixing. They would have to apply the change to the blend file so it wouldn't get lost.
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Writing new code to read and write (and patch) them.
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Thye use Maya
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all their content is made in Maya
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. That would mean they would need to have their Maya model fixed.
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: They used Maya ages ago, then wrote code to convert them to "Linden Lab Mesh 1.0" binary files.
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: My assumtion is they lost the Maya files, the code to conver them, and the people who knew how to do that years ago.
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The modelling is done in Maya, they have not written their own modeller
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: So a patch to one normal would be the only way to fix anything.
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but in any case, if you can illustrate the issue I am sure they can fix it
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: You should state what you changed in the file. That could help them locate the problem in their source object file.
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: ok 0.9.2.0 dev added to mantis options
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even screenshot and an uploaded non-rigged demo posed to illustrate the issue would be sufficient
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: hi selby.Evans
[11:31] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: bte last week crashes where a little bug i had :)
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: on the inventory log anti spam changes
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: so puff what can you tell us?
[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Ah, that script I wrote (which DID NOT CAUSE THAT CRASH) did not reproduce the bug I was hoping it would. Working on another hypothesis now.
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thansk Selby, your name tag confirmed a change is working :-)
[11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit, LL is adding two new teleport flags to the viewer that you might want to look into
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: so our teleports will be more broken?
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: What are the new flags?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TELEPORT_FLAGS_VIA_GLOBAL_COORDS = 1 << 16
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: The scripts that get the YEngine heap errors are merely doing string parsing occasionally. Could the heap fill up with immutable string copies after a long time?
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TELEPORT_FLAGS_WITHIN_REGION = 1 << 17
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well those things are not new
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: i mean the actions
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but it is now added to the viewer code
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: What has been going on this past week?
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ill try to track that gavin. thanks
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit's IP address changed :-)
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit has made quite a few changes to the code this past week. Not quite sure what all of them do.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well if viewers also change actions with those, they will fail on opensim
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: but we just need to wait and see
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only added to a header for now, but you never know what they have in store
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: mb they will send local tp coords in region local coords
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: not global
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: that just does not have enough resolution
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: well just guessing. not looking to code :)
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ha! maybe they will add bigger regions
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: but if behavour changes.. boing.. will fail on opensim
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well at least we do have those 2 bits free as far i can tell :)
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK, but it is hard to track their code changes now
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are not free any more
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: not free ?
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: not free what?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have two new flags itching for the two free bits
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: ahh yeap
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: at least not in use for lets say hg :)
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good
[11:47] puff ball: tbh what's the deal with the hypergrid protocol right now ? I just got here and I'm trying to get up to speed with the project lol
[11:47] puff ball: is there anyone developing for it? or it just works fine as is and there's no need to mess with it
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: work fine.. lol
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: does "work fine" apply to opensim?
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is already FUBAR :-))
[11:48] puff ball: oh nooo lmao
[11:48] puff ball: is there anything that needs to get done with it ?
[11:48] puff ball: I'm really interested in getting involved in that bit lol
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: well opensim does work, while it does not :p
[11:48] Bill Blight: Issue with making any major changes to the HG protocol is the refusal of many grids/individuals to update ...
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: or until
[11:49] puff ball: yeah for sure for sure
[11:50] Bill Blight: Changes to HG will either make them Upgrade or hide in a corner ....  :P
[11:50] puff ball: yea lol
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: btw you all know my paypal account (ajlduarte@sapo.pt) right?
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: lol
[11:50] Bill Blight: :P
[11:50] puff ball: also, I was wondering about making some updates to the docs and the wiki but IDK if just going in guns blazing would step on anybody's toes lol
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well the hg info is way outdated
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: on our site
[11:51] puff ball: yeah totally lol
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: that placement of regions anywhere anytime was very idealistic
[11:52] puff ball: but I think the most updated hypergrid stuff is like ?? a research paper that I found on google ?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: suitcase is,, well problematic
[11:53] puff ball: suitcase ?
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it contains your traveling inventory
[11:53] puff ball: :000
[11:54] puff ball: is that busted in the protocol rn ?
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: if someone does hg while fecting inventory.. well not fun :)
[11:54] Bill Blight: Suitcase the way I see it, is only busted when you have a grid that doesn't use it, connecting to one that does ...
[11:54] puff ball: oh boy
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: its more busted than that
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Bill
[11:55] puff ball: and like, a good fix for that is to standardize it in the hg protocol ?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: viewers don't like messing with system folders
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: puff ball: Did you have any questions for the group that will help you get in to working on OpenSim?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: and will possible be worse
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: making OSGrid actually use it would go a long way
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: Since OSGrid is "the test bed for OpenSim" it should have the suitcase inabled so we can test it.
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: But it does not.
[11:55] puff ball: oh man
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: but a bad case is as i said doing a HG tp while fecting inventory
[11:56] puff ball: I'm kinda looking to get the vibe rn lmao, I'm really interested in working on the protocol, but I'm actually kinda focused on fixing up the docs and user guides so I can convince my other programmer friends to work on it with me lmao
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Puff: I'm sure Andrew would love to have someone help update the Wiki. Andrew, give that man access!
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, please do
[11:57] puff ball: omg awesome lol
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: man? its a cat kayaker
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: puff, sounds good. Good docs are definitely something we need.
[11:57] puff ball: yeah, I'm kind of building up a "joinopensim" site right now ?
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: puff, have you applied for an wiki account?
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well, Andrew and cats...
[11:57] puff ball: similar to joinmastodon.org, because that's the big federated project I'm really into right now lol
[11:58] puff ball whispers: it doesn't have a readme or anything but I was thinking of scraping the wiki/hgbusiness.com and repackaging the info so it feels more streamlined to get involved ?
[11:58] puff ball: https://github.com/wgahnagl/joinopensim
[11:58] puff ball: oh wow whoops lol whisper
[11:59] puff ball: but just adding this stuff to the wiki was a hope of mine lmao
[11:59] puff ball: I don't have a wiki account yet tho lol
[12:00] puff ball: I know there's a huge amount of politics involved in wiki editing, especially on an old project so I didn't want to jump in without talking to anybody lmao
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: You could start by joining the mailing lists. You can use it for asking questions about OpenSim.
[12:02] Bill Blight: good thing would be also become known as a regular person in the dev IRC ...
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:02] puff ball: yeah I've been lurking there fore a bit as wgahnagl lol
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: for the grace, for the might or our Lord.. err oops
[12:03] puff ball: I never know what to say in mailing lists but I'll totally join them lmao
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You can introduce yourself. State what you would like to do and ask for guidance. If you have a site of your own where you can post information you can show examples of what you propose. There is also the bug tracking system.
[12:05] puff ball: I dig it
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The last 20 minutes went by fast. Are there any last minute questions/comments before we wrap up todays meeting?
[12:07] Bill Blight sticks a fork in it
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello again, steevithak. You sneak in behind my chat window so I didn't see when you arrived.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. Stick a fork in it and call it done.
[12:08] steevithak x: don't mind me, just lurking again :)
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: np.
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.