Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13

[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I'm away from home from a week, attending on my laptop. I have not had time to break anything in the last week, so I have no new mantusii to discuss.
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, ok
[11:04] Sheera Khan: Mantis is really quiet the last weeks
[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That works out well as Ubit isn't here to be able to talk about what you might have found
[11:05] Sheera Khan: so either there aren't many issues or not much testing is going on...
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, that is good if it means no new bugs found but bad if it means no fixes for any outstanding reports.
[11:05] Sheera Khan: Hi James :-)
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Is there a rez zone on this region?
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, James.
[11:06] George Equus: Hi James
[11:06] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Hello. getting situated
[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: AFAICT there is no parcelling in this region. That means no area here where you can rez items.
[11:06] Sheera Khan: are there outstanding issues? *giggles*
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I just figured that out!
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, there might be one or two. :)
[11:07] Sheera Khan: IPv6 is becoming more and more a concern for us
[11:08] Sheera Khan: we have quite some users who can't host their regions anymore at home as their providers don't provide a full IPv4 stack anymore :-(
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: I thought IPV4 was going to run out of numbers a few years ago. How has it kept going this long?
[11:10] Sheera Khan: there were quite some measures in place to work around the shortage which are working for normal use cases - just not for servers...
[11:10] Sheera Khan: Hi Leighton :-)
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, No more issueing of Class C's to people when they just need a single IP, for one example.
[11:10] Sheera Khan: and partial IPv4... only a range of ports for any given user
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, so one day my ISP will limit me to fewer ports and my OSGrid regions will stop working?
[11:12] Sheera Khan: that _can_ happen :-(
[11:13] Sheera Khan: full IPv6 support would be great, but that sure would be a lot of work
[11:14] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: huh, rattling in my brain I can hear 'don't worry about IPv6' from my network admins
[11:14] Sheera Khan: some data structures would need to be expanded from 32 to 128 bits
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some ISPs limit outgoing ports that would affect people trying to use a home computer as a publically accessible server.
[11:15] Sheera Khan: as in: "don't worry about IPv6 - we don't support it?"
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I live in fear one day my ISP will figure out what I am doing.
[11:15] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: lol @sheera - probably
[11:16] George Equus: Kayaker, as long as it is not used by a commercial entity ISP should not have a problem with it...
[11:17] JayR.Cela @grid.opensim.life:8002: Comcast !!! / they gave me a real hard time /
[11:17] JayR.Cela @grid.opensim.life:8002: To bad I have no other choice for an ISP provider
[11:19] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: So does something in opensim core need to change for IPV6 hosting? Data structures?
[11:20] Sheera Khan: Robust will need to store the connection parameters of servers and clients...
[11:20] Sheera Khan: there will be some changes to the storage of IPs...
[11:20] Sheera Khan: so the database will need some changes too
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will it have any effect on loopback?
[11:21] Sheera Khan: some parts seem to be done already as we see IPv6 entries added in our sim-table...
[11:21] Sheera Khan: but they are not really working :-(
[11:21] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: ty Sheera
[11:22] Sheera Khan: there may be some work needed client side too
[11:24] Sheera Khan: @Arielle: I don't know that :-(
[11:25] Sheera Khan is waiting for Andrew to reappear
[11:26] Sheera Khan: his cat bit the network cable ^^
[11:26] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: lol
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: Is that why they are called cat cables?
[11:27] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: excellent - lucky they are low voltage.
[11:27] Sheera Khan: I guess so... the data are transported by very little cats...
[11:28] Sheera Khan: older cables only had three cats and were slower than the more modern cables with five cats
[11:28] George Equus: mjau
[11:29] Sheera Khan PurrrRRRrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRrrrrrsssssssSSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssssss
[11:29] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, you asked earlier about a rez area - do you have show and tell?
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: they are really slow when cats chew on the cats
[11:29] Sheera Khan: ;-)
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: No, I was thinking of trying to set up an experiment for an issue I noticed but have not written a mantis about yet.
[11:31] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: ah, I was hoping for some explodin'  :)
[11:32] Kayaker Magic: oH, I have some great explostions I could bring next time!
[11:33] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: I believe it - I really enjoyed the balloons (dirigibles?) at oscc.
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: I have a free script called "House on FIRE!". You drop it in any building and it makes it susceptible to my weapons. Hit it too many times and it catches on fire.
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh nice
[11:34] Sheera Khan: filled with hydrogen and oxygen?
[11:35] JayR.Cela @grid.opensim.life:8002: LOL :_)
[11:36] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, like a Hollywood movie, you can make everything act like they are full of explosives
[11:37] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: amazing.
[11:37] JayR.Cela @grid.opensim.life:8002: now that would really freak someone out if they were not expecting it
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: can a house of prims be scripted to fall apart
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: forget the term
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: be damaged
[11:39] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: That would be unreal (snicker)
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: I'm reading the wiki on cat 5, it turns out the cat stands for Category, not for pussy cat!
[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: there was a creator on kitely a few years ago who had something to the effect
[11:40] Sheera Khan: *giggles*
[11:40] Sheera Khan: that's part of the conspiracy of cats for world domination... I'm not supposed to tell you that though ^^
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: Have you heard The Bobs song about Cat's World Domination? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M780jEAsNb8
[11:42] Sheera Khan: @Arielle... making the prims physical should archieve just that ^^
[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ahh right
[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: he had a region set up for it and it was really cool
[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: @Arielle it would be cool but I would imagine its a fairly intensive physics simulation .... just a guess
[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you mean it no longer works sheera?
[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: destructable\
[11:43] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I didn't test it
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Friend of mine made a bunch of fly-apart target items for a pirate town. Special scripts to make parts fly up smoking.
[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is Metro still on .8.2 Sheera?
[11:45] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Is Andrew not coming back this region was a little tricky to get to today.
[11:46] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, I have to admit that :-/
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: they not going to upgade?
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: grade
[11:46] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we didn't manage to complete the assessment yet
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i noticed Kitely is not intending to at present\
[11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we are at it but the review takes quite a bit of time
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: assume same for digiworldz
[11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we have a rather hefty 5TB database which would need some migration...
[11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: that's something to plan well ahead
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: true
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Kitely believes that too many changes were made between 0.8.2 and 0.9.0 and there has not been time to test them all.
[11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and we still have some regions where 0.9 simply doesn't work...
[11:49] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we are trying to figure out why
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: Kitely believes that the changes should have been made in an orderly fashion one at a time.
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: physics Sheera?
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: I fear Kitely will never upgrade to 0.9.0
[11:49] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: not so much, more the load on the server
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i think a lot would agree with that Kayaker
[11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: 0.8.3 works well there 0.9 crashes the server
[11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Uuuuuuubit :-)
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: orderly procession of changes
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: 0.9 crashs the server?? bad server
[11:51] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: really bad indeed - it's a windows based one ^^
[11:52] JayR.Cela @grid.opensim.life:8002: A good portion of OSGrid is already on 0.9.1 dev. so mabey 0.9 is not worth the effort to some people
[11:52] Kayaker Magic: Ubit! you are almost an hour late! Has there been another daylight savings switch I was not aware of?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: well hard to say anything about "crashs the server" :)
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: daylight saving as in had a nap?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: better late than never :p
[11:53] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: if we had some better information there would be a mantis about that Ubit ;-)
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: no stack trace log etc?
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you mean like documentation???
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: no Arielle.Popstar sheera.Khan did not meant that :p
[11:54] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Unfortunately I don't have access to the servers - so I can't tell :-(
[11:55] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: think she means they arent sure if it is a bug or feature :)
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: no, not even that :p
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: crashs are outside documentation :p
[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: when there is no documentation, everything is outside of it
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and then there's the flu keeping our sys-man from working on the migration :-(
[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hate the flu
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: not having much repos about servers crashing on mantis
[11:58] James atLLOUD: daylight savings is a bug afaik
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: none i can remember :p
[11:58] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: it's just an isolated case which we don't understand Ubit
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well on win the stack trace dump is more usefull than on linux
[11:59] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: but it is an important case for us
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: assuming there is one :p
[12:00] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I hope so, but I don't know honestly :-(
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: only seem ode crashs bypassing that.. well on did even rebooted my win7 :)