Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06

[10:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: can you both see me ok my outfit is a little high complexity wise
[10:59] Sheera Khan: I see you only partially ...
[11:00] Sheera Khan: aahhhhhh there you go Leighton :-)
[11:00] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: oh my its worse than I thought
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: I still see a big transparancy through your middle Leighton
[11:01] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: that a lovely mesh jacket but my complexity is something like 191000
[11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I saw that transparency, but now it is filled in
[11:02] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Just took a long time to load the texture
[11:02] Sheera Khan: now your shoes are here as well Leighton :-)
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: What is it about this place that makes mesh load so slow?
[11:03] George Equus: waiting for something to sit on  :)
[11:03] George Equus: Extremly sloooow
[11:03] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: nods @ Kayaker
[11:03] Sheera Khan: I don't know either.. I think this region is extremly slow
[11:03] George Equus: Always been from the start, for me
[11:04] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: it is strange I dont see slow mesh load times elsewhere
[11:04] George Equus: Wild guess... I sit at least
[11:04] Sheera Khan: these benches really should be in the cache by now... but nooooo, they take ages to load
[11:05] George Equus: loaded but no cushions yet
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: The cushions came in for me instantly today, only the backs were slow.
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Better that it is no cushions rather than no clothes. :)
[11:06] George Equus: Andrew floating in mid air no chairs in sight so far
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: And Leighton has finally rezzed for me!
[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I thought I was on the wrong place at first but realized I came in to this region over by the other building.
[11:06] Sheera Khan: after only 5 minutes ;-)
[11:06] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: wow thats a long while
[11:06] George Equus: my clothes res pretty instantly on any other region
[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The chairs in this corner do take a long time to rez properly.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: i was here bf.. so i did see the chairs etc when i arrived :p
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: So much for finding a region without lag for these meetings. :P
[11:07] George Equus: Maybe Wright wasn't that bad after all....
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I should ask nebadon to rez one of the stools from the old meeting location.
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, ask Ubit. He was the one who had a lot of problems with the old location.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: forget wright.. that was the worse possible location
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I have some strange complaints about the latest version of FireStorm and its interaction with OpenSim:
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: 35K prims really ??
[11:08] George Equus: I know Andrew.. and I never saw any lag over there ever practically
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: On OpenSim 0.9.0.0 the new FireStorm does not display newly imported mesh.
[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, I rarely saw lag issues over there.
[11:09] Sheera Khan: here we have less than 900 and it is not much better ^^
[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, which version of Firestorm are you using?
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: But OpenSim 0.9.1 built from the sources, FireStorm can display mesh fine.
[11:09] Sheera Khan: it does display all items here though
[11:10] George Equus: I did take the plunge... and updated FS to latest. So far seem fine
[11:10] Sheera Khan: I'm on 5.0.11.OS 64Bit
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: What has happened between 0.9.0 and 0.9.1 that would effect how FS displays mesh?
[11:10] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: me too George been about a week and no issues
[11:10] Sunshine Szavanna: brb some things are not rezzing
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: nothing..
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, that's the one I'm using.
[11:10] Sheera Khan: works fine for me
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: FS is just not showing meshs it did upload badly i think
[11:11] Sheera Khan: that was more of an error user side...
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: a few cases 0,9.1 does refuse to upload also
[11:11] George Equus: FSEnforceStrictObjectCheck need to be FALSE though... or my trousers disappear  :)
[11:11] Sheera Khan: if you use the analyze Button for the upload you're in for a surprise afterwards
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Ahh! We can't have that!
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: some clever ppl told 0,9.1 was broken doing that and told ppl to remove that code.. well whatever
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: it is not analyse per si.. comments are wrong on that
[11:12] Sheera Khan: George, I see your trousers just fine I think
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: just analyse is more complex.. viewers fail more and don't detect it
[11:12] Sheera Khan: and that setting is default here
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: so yeap not that recommended for now..
[11:13] George Equus: analyze apparently mess up thing badly unless on SL...
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: but does have a few merits, specially for bullet.. well if bullet did work :p
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... I just found a bug in FS.
[11:13] George Equus: FS team make a special note NOT to use that on Opensim
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: it also messes at sl
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: that FS code is also for sl
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: just havoc mesh tools fail a bit less
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The notes in the wiki about uploading mesh also states that analyze mesh should not be used.
[11:14] George Equus: precisely
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: ( but if you go sl with fs-OS it does not have havoc mesh tools
[11:15] George Equus: no
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: and it sais what i just said.. not recomended (for now )
[11:15] George Equus: still reading the release notes on the viewer
[11:15] George Equus: only couple of days old so time will tell I guess
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, are you using FS 5.0.11?
[11:16] George Equus: I do like the info you get now on Inventory items
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, a couple of days? What is the current version number?
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: No, I'm back on 5.0.1 for now.
[11:17] George Equus: 5.0.11
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: the physics mesh view per prim is also nice
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: well will not match physics unless on ubOde the the reasons well known
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: hmm will not match on some cases..
[11:18] George Equus: Released around Jan 20th I think
[11:19] George Equus: Time flies...
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: for some odd reason does not work on normal prims or sculpts only mesh
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: convex shape specially
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: but the full screen display of physics shapes also did not work on those before
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Nuts. I've locked up Chrome again. :P I was going to check something in the wiki. I'll have to do that later.
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There is one bit of news this week.
[11:22] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: love me lots of chrome, but so many active processes
[11:23] George Equus: I went for Firefox, never give any trouble
[11:23] George Equus: Google is fine for searches..
[11:23] George Equus: IMHO
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A new scripting engine feature has hit the httptests branch of OS. It is considered experimental at this point and is not reccommended for production use.
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: I'm all ears... tell us more.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: even testing is only for the brave
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: um... take out that word feature. It is a new script engine. It is called MMREngine, IRC.
[11:25] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Bill seems to like it on Opensim Life
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: you mean XMRengine i think :p
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: umm. Yeah, that is the name. :)
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well it has several issues..
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not unlike the current scripting engine. :)
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: was great at avination but there it uses the version that requires a specially modified mono
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: without it its bad on windows.. and just seems to work on linux
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: When I was runing OS on Windows I didn't use mono to run instances.
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: mricker the author ( with melanie) made a few changes that im testing ( with my own)
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: does seem a little better now
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: but yeack.. lots of work..
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: and kayaker will not like it :p
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Why not?
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: its major feature is handling long events a bit better
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Also not advisable to mix it with regions using XEngine. You would need to recompile scripts on region crossings.
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: llSleep not a issue well or will not be
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: but they will lose cpu...
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: and will run again when possible
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: XMREngine is more SL like. It also has better memory management so no more need of the appdomains setting.
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: they can run more than the limit of 300ms of xengine...
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but will run a bit slower
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Sounds like they FIXED some problems with llSleep.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: and of course all other events frozen by spec
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes. It uses a better method of threading.
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I know of someone who pushed their script settings to allow almost 1 full second of script execution.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: also during sleep the thread is released to do other work.. well or will be... it not on the version on git
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: another issue is that its parsing is more like SL...
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: that means come complex expressions will not give same result as Xengine
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: unless scripter was carefull using () etc
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: to enforce a specific parsing order
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It also means scripts that use the old memsave hack will work.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: hopefully should be a minor issue
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: for now not really working is a more relevant issue :P
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it may also fix the memory use on script delete
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Having the engine releasing a thread during sleep will be a big help.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it does seem to actually delete it
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Parsing differences usually only have an effect when you write code that is too clever for its own good.
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: aurora script engine is very good also, does similar but does not release memory as Xengine doesn't
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, order of execution, no short-cutting in if's, and right to left execution can lead to issues of one isn't careful.
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: actually currently im trieng to make XMR more like aurora engine on execution control and filosofy
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: aurora/whitecore
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: bc thats the only cross platform solution
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: we can not use modified mono versions
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: or even mono tasklets, not avaiable for windows
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: possible other platforms
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: anothe this is that it is LSL only
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: no c# java blabla xengine could do
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: this converts LSL directly to IL
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well to AST then IL
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: details
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Does anyone have any idea how many (if any) people use anything other than LSL with OS?
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well no one can use really
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: not on a region open to the world
[11:40] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: you mean using ossl?
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: no. That would be very unsafe.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ossl is included on LSL i said
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: James, LSL and OSSL can be considered the same for this point.
[11:40] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: OK, sorry.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: script language we use :)
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: np. Good to have the clarification out there.
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: But is anyone using c# instead of LSL?
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: a few on very special closed regions cases
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: hey can format the disk on a region script great :p
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: but bc a few do use is why i did not delete its option already
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A C# based script could access system files.
[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Speaking of OSSL, I would like to use osKey2Name, it has a threat level of "low", but permissions "${XEngine|osslParcelO}ESTATE_MANAGER,ESTATE_OWNER" What exactly does that mean?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: just never use it on normal regions
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: actually now in "$OSSL  :p
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: on httptests
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, that setting means the function can only be used by estae managers and estate owners, and possibly parcel owners if osslParcelO is set.
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: means the things defined on osslParcelO a few lines above plus ESTATE_MANAGER,ESTATE_OWNE
[11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm trying to remember the difference between the lsl and ossl version of that function.
[11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: IIRC, the lsl one only works when the avatar is in the region but the os one always works
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I see. There is an old SL way to get avatar name by doing a dataserver request which is a pain in the butt.
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: The OSSL function looks nice, but I cannot use it because of the permissions. This is typical of all the OSSL functions: I want to use them but dare not.
[11:47] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, I think that required use of a special URL. You could do that in SL. I think I did provide a means of doing that via a URL for VH. I don't think it is generally available.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: there was a fix on master.. hmm don't remember what lol
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yea. Been ages since I've thought about that feature.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: as you know.. at least for me httptests is the devel branch now
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: untill we do release a 0.9.0 postfixes
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit has been doing most of his current work in that branch.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and upgrade our jenkins
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: bc there is another thing about httptests
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: it does require .net 4.6
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: that means no more XP
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: vista still possible...
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: on linux that means mono 5.x
[11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Lucky that I have that version installed.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: possibly some late 4.x but ppl say those have issues
[11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I will just need to remove a couple of env vars and/or symlinks so I will use the 5.x mono by default.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: 4.6.2 i know does not support .net4.6
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: err or whatever the version was :p
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: im on 5.4.1.6 and current mono version is 5.8 ??
[11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ah, I have mono 5.4
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well that may also be an issue for some
[11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: 5.4.1.7
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but we can't stay on .net4.0
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Ah, I just looked it up: To get the user name from UUID in SL, you called llRequestUsername and waited for a dataserver event. osKey2Name does the same thing in one call, but most people cannot use it.
[11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The mono versions seem to be going up pretty rapidly over that last year
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: MS tring to fix it :p
[11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, you need to do a name look up from a UUID when the person isn't in the region?
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: Yes, if the person is in the region you don't need this. But to reliably get the name you need llRequestUsername.
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: btw viewers may also upload broken meshes even without analise and say nothing
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: but more rare
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, reliably? Hm... I can't say I've ever know of llKey2Name to fail.
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: We are close to the top of the hour. Before we go, who was asking about my Patreon page last week? I've been working on my Patreon account the last couple of days. I'm getting close to launch time. I can IM you when I do the launch.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: and as i said 0.9 tries to refuse very trivial brokeness cases... a thing that make clever ppl say 0.9 is broken, as you know ;p
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, better that than complaining that a mesh they uploaded isn't working.
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah but tell that to some ppl.. whatever
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I know. :P
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: I had a case where I got the uuid of the owner of an object. The owner was not nearby, so lLKey2Name returned "". Ether I have to test for that and call llRequestUsername, or just give up and call llRequestUsername first and do it the hard way.
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. If the user isn't nearby that is likely to fail.
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: Obviously if someone touches an object, I can assume they must be nearby and use llKey2Name. But there are other cases.
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I have usually only needed to do the lookup in gadgets after someone touched an item.
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I would be interested to know if llRequestUsername works. I have never tried using it.
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: It works fine, but you have to request and return. Wait for the dataserver event, then re-structure your code to pick up where it left off.
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: LSL_Api.cs code does issue two Async calls. One to get he information and the other to post it to the dataserver. Chances are it will work.
[12:01] George Equus: RL calling. Thanks for interesting evening.
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that's pretty standard for a number of things where you use HTTP requests.
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: But for just getting a name? Pain in the butt.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, chain your users down so they will always be in range. :)
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'll try that!
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: But then they all have to have Restrained Love turned on....