Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16

[10:57] Sheera Khan: I'm not able to see and to wear Ruth 2 with this viewer too like Ai Austin reported
[10:58] Sheera Khan: there seems to be a Debug Setting in the newer LL viewer code that kills bad meshes... whatever LL considers bad that is ...
[10:59] George Equus: Super fast rez AND a good sit on first try  :))
[10:59] Sheera Khan: we make improvements then ;-)
[10:59] George Equus: Don't bother updating FS anymore.
[10:59] George Equus: 4.7.9 work fine
[10:59] Sheera Khan: well, somebody should ...
[11:00] George Equus: close my eyes when Bento's are near
[11:00] Sheera Khan: otherwise those bugs won't ever get noticed
[11:00] George Equus: is a moot cause hunting bugs introduced by LL code isn't it?
[11:01] Sheera Khan: unfortunatly I'm not even a noob in Blender... I'd love to use the new tail bones and some decent digi legs
[11:02] George Equus: I am a sub noob in Blender...
[11:02] Sheera Khan: and the head could be very much improved too with Bento
[11:10] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: hi, sorry i have lost the time of dev meeting
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: paela, same time as always.
[11:11] Sheera Khan: We could meet at a party too, but I guess the nerd talk might chase away the other guests^^
[11:11] George Equus: maybe we all should go to Almost and flood chat with intriguing tech dumps from consoles...
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Who wants to kick things off this week?
[11:12] George Equus: symbiotic minds...
[11:12] Sheera Khan: well, there's the observation that the new LL viewer code kills "bad" meshes
[11:12] Sheera Khan: whatever LL considers to be bad...
[11:13] Sheera Khan: one thing is the new Ruth2 avatar :-(
[11:14] Sheera Khan: FS Beta resp. RC1 has that code and one can't wear Ruth2 in that viewer on older simulators
[11:14] Sheera Khan: OS0.9 seems to be fine though ;-)
[11:14] George Equus: so use previous viewer version here is my take on it.
[11:14] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: or upgrade to 0.9
[11:15] George Equus: Wish LL would go away..
[11:15] Sheera Khan: well, ALL viewers will pick up that code in some time...
[11:15] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: It is working on that, george
[11:16] Sheera Khan: and the version of the simulator isn't my choice it's the choice of the owner
[11:16] George Equus: someone gave SL a year...
[11:16] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: @kills bad meshes - what does a killed mesh look like?
[11:16] Sheera Khan: completely invisible
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder how many times people have given SL a finite time before they go away.
[11:16] George Equus: something to run far away from probably
[11:17] Sheera Khan: you're unable to wear (attach) it
[11:17] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: ok, ty sheera
[11:17] George Equus: so only avatar meshes then?
[11:18] Sheera Khan: https://plus.google.com/+AiAustin/posts/jo12p3ZLoDV
[11:18] Sheera Khan: I don't know if that extends to other meshes too as I don't exactly know what LL considers to be bad meshes
[11:19] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: i dont have see any anoucement of lL about that
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I would expect it would impact all meshes
[11:19] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: are you sure is not a bug of rc1?
[11:20] Sheera Khan: well, if you consider including the new code from LL a bug then yes...
[11:20] George Equus: good info on that page
[11:21] Sheera Khan: there's a Debug-setting for that behaviour... so it looks intentional
[11:21] George Equus: sometimes old software have it's merits
[11:21] George Equus: :)
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My family often complains about software upgrades. They so often mess things up.
[11:21] George Equus: seem to be a work around
[11:22] Sheera Khan: But I like the upgrades... I can't really imagine using a chisel and a hammer to write a tweet
[11:22] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: the slow rezz of mesh worn on the avi andrew is get caps mesh newcode the problem
[11:23] George Equus: don't hold your breath on that one...
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Hello. No Ubit here today?
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not much has happened code wise this week in terms of changes to git master. Ubit has been busy with changes to code on a branch.
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, I sent out a notice regarding this meeting in the IRC channel.
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: I have been testing vehicle crossings (submited one mantis 2 weeks ago) because I was looking for a way to demonstrate a problem.
[11:28] George Equus: Any last minute info from paela about down time perhaps?
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: When a vehicle crosses, the script that runs the vehicle usually survives.
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: but if you are wearing a HUD, the script in that often has problems.
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Looses llListens, looses llTakeControls, or stops working completely.
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: I'm looking for a way to demonstrate this every time so I can submit a mantis about it.
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Have you seen what happens in vehicle scripts with llListens and llTakeControl set?
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: Those usually survive the crossing.
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: but other scripts (like HUDs) have a problem more often.
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok
[11:35] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: none wanna speak about the problem load mesh worn ?
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: paela, What problem have you encountered?
[11:37] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: load mesh work very slower with the new code of ubit in caps get mesh trottle are very restrictive
[11:37] George Equus: Isn't obvious solution to ignore LL and create meshes for ospensim?
[11:38] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: mesh of sl or opensim is the same problem george
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The solution is to stop uploading bad meshes. :)
[11:38] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: not a good answer Andrew in sl i load in 10 sec all avi
[11:38] George Equus: yes... or rather uncompatible..
[11:39] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: in opensim 9.X i need 2 minutes
[11:39] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is abusive
[11:39] George Equus: So why use meshes from SL here??
[11:39] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is same if i make a mesh here george
[11:39] George Equus: make compatible version "good versions" for opensim
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: paela, Load time is a different issue from whether a given mesh is good or bad.
[11:40] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: no Andrew worn a complete avi mesh and try
[11:40] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is the same problem with ruth 2.0
[11:40] George Equus: don't look on what LL does so much, wasn't that a big discussion a while back?
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If a mesh is bad you may never see it. If a mesh is good it might just take longer to appear in OS than in SL.
[11:41] George Equus: My body is all mesh, except head
[11:42] George Equus: at least I see it fast, no (or rare) complaints from other
[11:42] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: you have become accustomed to opensim users, at an extreme speed and now opensim version snail -))
[11:43] George Equus: Not sure about everyone here but I am happy with load times myself. all usually fully loaded within the minute, mostly much faster
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, yes, it has been discussed before.
[11:43] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: for load your avi george is minutes
[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have to agree with George I see no speed difference with mesh bodies
[11:44] George Equus: I do a lot of HG jumping, rarely have any problems
[11:44] George Equus: on a particular region there might be sometimes,
[11:44] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: I have to have graphics at minimum on this computer and George, your avatar is the 'jelly doll' replacement.
[11:45] George Equus: most likly due to slow connection or slow server system serving up
[11:45] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: stop said stupidity george this server have gbits network public
[11:45] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: and i'm in fiber too
[11:45] George Equus: Jelly doll is a setting, I got fed up with them and set value to max complexity
[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: you can change the avatar complexity numbers to see less jelly replacements
[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: or use the render fully option
[11:46] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: yes, ty Leighton. I've got a lot running on this computer so I had to go with minimal graphics. This meeting is mostly chat anyway.
[11:46] George Equus: in Graphics - General - Max complexity set to No Limit
[11:47] George Equus: in FS settings
[11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: If the complexity is more than 350000 then I leave them as jelly.
[11:47] George Equus: but of course this all depend of system capacity and your own bandwidth
[11:48] paela argus: no
[11:48] paela argus: is your error
[11:48] George Equus: my system is over 3GHz with 32 MB in ram on a unlimited fiber connection... that certainly helps
[11:48] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: system capacity and bandwidth are significant variables surely
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: A good video card with a good driver helps.
[11:49] George Equus: yes certainly do
[11:49] paela argus: thats true
[11:49] paela argus: but i use the laster imac
[11:49] paela argus: is similar of your computer maybe better george
[11:49] paela argus: and problem
[11:49] George Equus: I got all settings on max values, regardless what it is
[11:49] paela argus: i have 200 down and 120 up
[11:49] paela argus: network !!
[11:50] George Equus: that is well above what is needed for this
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: welcome, autumnlady.
[11:51] autumnlady 919: TY Andrew.... meanwhile before I get comfy.... is this a private meeting or something ??? Ive never been here before
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone interested in the Open Simulator project is welcome to attend.
[11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: This is the meeting between users and developers of OpenSim software
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: We meet here most Tuesdays at 11am osgrid time.
[11:53] autumnlady 919: hmmm certainly NOT a developer.... log in and am on a few regions but thats about it
[11:53] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: even though the developers are a minority here ;-)
[11:53] autumnlady 919: Basically just a learner
[11:54] autumnlady 919: or trying to be
[11:54] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: me too Autumnlady
[11:54] autumnlady 919: Ahhh sighhh ok good to know
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, If the number of developers exceeded the number of non-developers I think that would be a sign of a problem. :)
[11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: no danger of that though as far as I can see @Andrew^^
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: You are right, Sheera.
[11:55] George Equus: I sit in mainly to listen to tech discussions when devs talk code, in the vain hope I will grasp at least some of what's going on behind the scene  :)
[11:56] autumnlady 919: your wayyyy ahead of me George.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: autumnlady, all sorts of topics get talked about here. It can be possible code bugs that need to be passed along to the developers, or other issues relating to experiences using OS.
[11:56] George Equus: I didn't say how much I grasp lol
[11:56] paela argus: maybe if the devs start listen the offfical grid test can help for solve issues
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: We had a talk last week, or the week before, that was a bit more technical than usual.
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and sometimes a little bit of chit chat too ;-)
[11:57] paela argus: i leave i'm bored
[11:57] autumnlady 919: well anyway nice to sit in and see if I can learn anything if nobody minds
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour so we won't be going much longer.
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves at Paela
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Paela is frustrated because she has a problem with mesh loading slowly.
[11:58] George Equus: Saturday meetings are more general, Tuesday meets more tech talk Autumn, Time and place is the same